I was told by a manager once at a telecommunications company (unofficially so he did not get in trouble) that I was passed over for a promotion because the company needed to add more minorities. Maybe I was unqualified compared to who they hired, who knows, but I wasn’t given a chance due to my race and gender. Sound Familiar?

AA is a racist legislation by definition. The question and argument seems to be whether or not it is necessary racism.

Larry

racism, as defined by Webster’s: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Another dictionary says: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one race is superior and has the right to rule others; hatred or intolerance of another race or races.

Nowhere is AA mentioned because, say it all together, AA is NOT RACIST! AA does not state that white people are inferior, that minorities are superior, and it sure has heck does not try to control or rule white people as a collective group. It tries to get qualified minority candidates jobs that they were not given a chance of because of the color of their skin. If white employers would have hired qualified monority workers instead of passing over them for this reason, we would not have AA. Racial segregation is racist. Slavery was racist. Lynching was racist. The KKK was racist. The Holocost was racist, AA is not racist. Say its unfair if you want, that would be more logical. But don’t disrespect the plight, past and present, of victims of racism by comparing this RESPONSE to racism racist. It is spitting in the face of real people who have faced real racism.

It is understandable what some white folk think about this. The playing field is a lot more level now than it was 40 years ago. And there has been some black folk using AA to their advantage. People who were not qualified to pick up dog poop got some great jobs. Being a government worker, believe me, I have seen it.
At the same time, I have also seen whites that did not deserve those jobs. But then again, that is government work, what do you expect!
I wish jobs were given only to those truly qualified for them, things would sure work a lot smoother.
Now the question I have. Has affirmative action outlived its usefullness? I hope so, but am not sure. If we end it today will we go back to the way it used to be? Where only certain people get hired no matter what? I hope not. I think we have grown enough as a society that this would not happen. But I am just not sure.

AA, no matter how you slice it is unfair to the opposite - the only reason a person should be hired is because they are qualified to do that job - not because of any gov. program, not because they ‘know someone’ in the business like at the court houses in ST.LOUIS. There isn’t a court room clerk there that has gotten their job because they were qualified! It is ALL because some got if for them - all politics, or they slept with some one. How do I know? Because I worked downa there and saw it for myself! All AA does in put a person into a position that they can’t perform in..then when they get fired they start screaming ‘racism’!!!! No, you are fired because you cannot do your job!!! It is unfair, has ALWAYS been unfair, and if you want a job fairly, then do the home work necessary to get hired, like learning about the company, dressing the part, have a hair cut that is professional, not a fad or the ‘coolest’, etc. Leave the gold at home, bring proper documents, references, resume’s, cover letters, etc. Go out an apply just like the rest of us do - you are NOT entitled to special treatment!!!

I am sure that there are AA hires that were not qualified, or did not work out. I am sure there are white hires that are not qualified or do not work out. That is life. But there is an inherent misunderstanding of AA by some people on this blog. If a white guy gets hired, and he is not qualified, then all of the white working force does not suffer as a result. He does not represent white people as a whole, as he shouldnt. It seems people bring up an individual instance of a minority AA hire that was not qualified, and use that example to condemn the performance of all minorities. White people are not responsible for the individual nuts in there race, but it seems that one bad apple ruins the whole minority bunch. You cna not judge a group of people based on individuals, but we are doing that on this blog. AA does not give special treatment, it give minorities the opportunities that we white folk, judging by what is said on this blog, take for granted.

Arizona state senator Rios makes th best case for the amendment by statingthat some preferences are still needed. Guess who gets to decide just who needs the preferences? It reminds me of a training course at my company re discrimination in the workplace. The materials stressed that some “groups” were “more protected” under the law than others. So much for equal protection.

Clyde:
You,as all other members of the minority race, take everything that happens to ONE person, absorb that failure as your own, and then start yelling ‘the entire race is being discriminated against’. NOT SO!!! You take what happens when a black person is fired, that it then makes ALL blacks look bad! You couldn’t be more wrong and incorrect. YOUR imagination has gone rampart, all of you that think that way. The entire race doesn’t work at that job! So, it cannot be a possibility that the entire race is blamed because of one black persons failure to do a job they were hired to do! Apparently, the black race really thinks of themselves as perpetual victims! I do believe THAT BELIEF is your downfall! How can you improve yourselves if you constantly think you are going to be a victim, then if you are turned away you imeediately assume they don’t like you because of your color! That is ignorant, a ‘poor lil ole me’ attitutde, and believing all the bull you’ve been taught all your life about being the downtrodden. You are only downtrodden IF you don’t take what is available to you, use it to you BENEFIT, and doing what you are supposed to do, what is expected of you to do, and live your life feeling positive about yourself. If you think you are not worthwhile, then others will think the same thing. You see, making yourself a victim projects onto other people! It’s a bad negative for you, but you’ve created that attitude all by yourself! So, you create your own environment - no one else. It’s pathetic to think that through AA is the only way you can get a job - that’s just an excuse and being lazy!

Spyguy - I don’t think I missed your point, and I did answer your question (i.e. could I assume you were employed, college-educated and with a roof over you head if I thought you were black), though I guess not to your satisfaction. Your point would seem to be that non-white persons (presumably because of institutionalized racism you believe exists in society) cannot prosper in America to the degree white persons (esp. white men) can because of the “privilege” they have. Your secondary, implicit point (whether you realize you are making it or not) is that the choices these non-white persons make in their lives cannot be factored into the equation of their success or lack thereof. . . .And I didn’t make any assumption about your “race” or sex. You stated you are a white male, I take you at your word. When I put the question as to my skin color into play, I did so with a qualifying wink/nod. (You really shouldn’t use the term “race” when you are referring to skin color, spyguy. As Ivan Van Sertima said when he spoke at Saint Louis U. more than 16 years ago, “there is only one race - homo sapiens.”)

Purdy

My imagination is not running away. White people generalize about black people, plain and simple. People on this blog assume that white people are inherently more qualified than minorities are. They speak of ONE example of a poor AA hire, and use that brush to paint the whole program as unfair and (verry incorrectly) racist.

I have seen many white people playing the victim on this blog, both on this topic and previous ones. Yet you say, “The black race race really thinks of themselves as perpetual victims”. Well, white people play the victim card on this very blog, you have to see it. So are you suggesting because of these few that the entire white race sees themselves as perpetual victims? No, because a few white people do not represent the whole. But, again, based on a few black people, you paint them all with that broad brush. You proved my point.

Also, you say it is “pathetic” that you think the only way to get a job is through AA. What is pathetic Purdy, is that AA was needed because qualified, competent minorities could not get a job because white people would not hire them. They were qualified and capable, and white people REFUSED to hire them. We need to lose the idiotic assumption that white people were willing to hire the most capable person. They were willing to hire the most capable white person. You can’t keep telling black people to take advantage of the opportunities in front of them, when those opportunities are not really there. Before AA was here, those opportunities were not. I am white, so it is hard for me to admit this, but AA was put into place because white people simply were not trustworthy enough in their treatment of minorities, plain and simple.

Clyde, sorry I didn’t answer this sooner.

Yes, I have been dissatisfied with the GOP. I am more of a classic conservative who likes limited government and people to keep their nose out of my business. Lately my party looks more like Dems in the way they have been spending money. While I don’t think George W was the complete failure that a lot of people do, I don’t think he was great either.

It’s funny you mentioned the contradiction in your party about prison executions and abortion. My party has the exact opposite contradiction, and it bugs me as well.

They say the older you get the more cynical you get. I think that is becoming true of me. Too often the actions of the elected officials seem to have no useful purpose. I share your frustrations.