Seriously?

movie was great. they were obviously not black stereotypes, just annoying. the “moviegoers” (sounds like just darryl swint) who allege this must still be mad about the solstice’s character jazz in the last movie. I’ll admit jazz was black, he was the only autobot to get killed off.

It’s hard to comment when there is no audio clip.

nidf: I have yet to see the movie, so I don’t count myself among the moviegoers who have raised objections about the film. I plan to see the movie by this weekend. Concerns with Mudflap and Skids have been raised in stories in the New York Times, E! Online, Associated Press and the Washington Post among others. The articles I’ve read make no association with the Autobot Jazz you mention.

FTP: The only legal way media can obtain audio of the robot characters is if such audio is released by Paramount Pictures or Dreamworks SKG. To my knowledge, this has not been done.

Here’s my question:

What is more offensive to the black populace - the images/portrayals of ‘Amos N’ Andy’?…or the images/portayals of gangsta’ rappers?

For my entire lifetime (48-years-old/Caucasian), I’ve been told that ‘Amos N’ Andy’ represented comic negative portrayals of black men and, consequently, the early 1950’s television show has largely been censored and unseen by the general public since the height of the Civil Rights movement. For the record, the characters were created by two white men in the 1920’s who performed the characters for two decades on radio; the characters in the television show were black.

I contrast that with the images and sounds of rap music, largely performed by blacks over the last 25 years. Much of it is centered on narcissitic behavior, vulgar and rude language, sexual promiscuity, repetitive lyrics/sounds (thus, in my opinion, lacking creativity) and images that communicate destructive behavior. Many rappers have died via the behavior described in the music. Yet, the music remains hugely popular with all youth, particularly black youth.

My opinion?

The unfortunate aspect of ‘Amos N’ Andy’ is that, by and large, these were the only types of roles available to black men and women throughout most of the first half of the 20th Century - with more ‘respectable’ roles available only in black cinema. This was corrected as more blacks became mainstreamed into Hollywood, which allowed for the buffoonery of ‘Sanford and Son’ to coexist alongside an ‘I Spy,”Julia,”The Jeffersons,”Room 222,’ etc. I never heard any complaints about the characters in ‘Sanford…’

HOwever, it’s my belief that the ‘damage’ caused by the stereotypes portrayed in the gentle comedy of ‘Amos N’ Andy,’ whether done by blacks or whites, doesn’t even compare with the destructive and nihilistic images and behavior of rap music, particularly within the black community. To me the fallout has been horrendous…

I always thought replaying small segments to offer criticism or editorialize on was within “fair use” principles.

Wow…what is with the hyper-sensitivity? I am a country boy, always have been. I say “ya’ll”, “fixin”, “djeet yet” etc but I definitely do not get my knickers bunged up when some white actor (or black actor) knowingly stereotypes a “redneck” as being slow witted or backwards. I usually get tickled by it. So why is it that if modern media portrays images of…get this…modern media, the ACLU goes on a rampage about racism?

I have always believed that if something I see “hurts” me, it is because it has struck a chord with me somehow. Sort of a “stikes kinda close to home” type of thing. Maybe that’s what is causing this “uproar”.

Darryl,

Are you old enough to know who Amos ‘n Andy were?

The characters in the Transformers movie are just that, characters. Not only that, they’re robots! Somehow, I just can’t see the screenplay writers going out of their way to make social commentary while creating a story about 18-wheelers that morph into robot warriors.

Saw the movie. Loved it! Thought it was awesome. Must we always seek out the negative in everything?!
Try to focus on the message of the entire story. Good always triumphs over evil even when it looks like evil has the upper hand.

Here is what my colleague, film critic Joe Williams had to say on this…

Joe’s Movie Lounge
“Transformers 2″ drops da bomb on da box office

06.25.2009 2:21 pm
“Transformers 2″ drops da bomb on da box office
By Joe Williams
St. Louis Post-Dispatch

The gadget action flick “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” earned $60 million in its first day of release Wednesday, a new record for a mid-week opening, topping “Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix” in 2007. It was the second biggest one-day haul for any movie ever, trailing only the Friday opening of “The Dark Knight” in 2008.

I’m not surprised. This technically impressive sequel ups the ante of the very lucrative first “Transformers”–it’s longer, louder and less concerned about niceties like plot and character.

If you don’t count Megan Fox’s physique as a speaking part, the characters who are generating the most discussion are Skids and Mudflap, two “Autobots” that are getting blasted by critics (like me) as racist stereotypes, akin to Jar Jar Binks. They smack each other around, say they come from “da hood” and admit they can’t read. One of them has a gold front tooth.

Director Michael Bay is deflecting the criticism, saying that they are merely robots. (”I did it for the kids,” he said.) But that’s nonsense. The appeal of all the robots in the movie is that they talk and behave like humans. They have personalities. In the case of Skids and Mudflap, they have the personalities of bug-eyed comic-relief sidekicks in minstrel shows.

The closer you look at “Revenge of the Fallen,” the creepier it gets. One ostensibly heroic Autobot calls a wounded, surrendering adversary a “punk ass bitch” before executing him. (Although it’s hard to tell the shape-shifting robots apart, I think he is the same character who later rallies the troops by invoking the battle cry of post 9/11 America: “Let’s roll!”)

This is one of the few action films that mention the name of an actual U.S. president–in this case, Pres. Obama. So it’s noteworthy that Obama’s personal envoy on the battlefield is a weaselly bureaucrat who tries to stop the fighting (but is tricked into jumping out of an airplane to save his own miserable hide).

Bay goes out of his way to identify the aircraft carrier in the battle sequences as the U.S.S. John C. Stennis–twice. The Stennis is the huge, state-of-the-art vessel where Bay had the premier screening of his “Pearl Harbor.” (I was there.) In the interviews for that movie, star Ben Affleck noted that Stennis, a former senator from Mississippi, had been a racist who opposed anti-lynching laws and school desegregation. “But people can change,” Affleck said.

Just like robots, right?

You can follow Joe’s take on film at http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/joes-movie-lounge/

(

As an African American male I did find those images offensive because as Bill GJ said, “It struck a chord with me.” Unfortunately, there are too many of us still portraying those stereotypes. I could be angry at Micheal Bay, but I’m not. That is because as John C so elequently pointed out, there is an overwhelming amount of emphasis put on the negative aspects of the black community from within and without. If there weren’t people who still showed that type of behavior, even they (Micheal Bay team) would think it obsurd to display it. I could discuss the pressure of the music industry to promote that type of behavior, but what’s the point. We are responsible for ourselves. I do take issue with the overwhelming amount of negative images in the media as opposed to the positive aspects, but every “race” exists as a dichotomy. You have the negative and positive aspects. I wouldn’t want African Americans to pretend that we are all Bill Cosbys and Ben Carsons anymore than we are all 50 cent or EZ E. I know those images do not represent me personally, but it makes it harder for me to be taken seriously. All I look for is a balance of images that portray the true diversity of people within the black community. I do believe that they characters were deliberately inconsiderate, but they will not make me or break me. The true wieght of this country’s soul was measured when they elected a black man as president (not going to go into the biracial thing, because there isn’t a white person reading this who would consider the president white if he was obama the street sweeper). John C, I agree that hip hop is wholly unoriginal and a sink hole for innovation and creativity, but it was not always the case. When it first started, it was raw and new and unchained in it’s artistic integrity, but it became a business and when corporations get involved, the part of it that was pure was lost. There is a lot of good Hip Hop out there, but you have to dig. Unfortunately, it is being dominated by the cast offs who haven’t the faintest idea what makes art, much like Micheal Bay. He can entertain you, but uplift you, he will not.

BTW, LOVED THE MOVIE.

Hey Dougie

Here’s a clue, if you talk like a Black person maybe black people need to stop talking that way! then we wont know if your black or white just a person. simple solution even people with an average IQ of 79 could understand that. thats not me I have a IQ of 80. I’m sorry I took your insult away.
I’m just saying.

Ummmm…they aren’t black stereotypes…they are autobots who learned their language through the internet.

Only blacks are allowed to respond this- Are you friggin kidding? Get off your high horse. You make me sick. Do you see the Italians complain about all the ”mob” movies and how its stereotypes the Italian way of life when in fact, most Italians were working citizens? Or how about the leprechaun on the Lucky Charms box; are the Irish in the streets over this? Its just as stupid. Or how come on all the tv commercials, for whatever bank, the bank owner is an old white guy with grey hair, every single one of them. What is your deal and who do you think you are? I have to hand it to Darryl for posting such a stupid article that draws in the revenue.

yeah its really hard to comment as there is no audio to listen but vmware training can effect such sort of controversies

Who gives a crap? If it is a good movie, then watch it. All the PC BS is ridiculous. Are Blacks really so insecure that they have to look for attacks on their race in every thing? Well, it probably isn’t Blacks in general that are “offended”. It likely is the Black activist croud that makes money from these types of issues that is taking “offence”.

Think,
We went and saw this movie last night. I was not offended in the least. I thought these two characters were hilarious! Over all the movie was not bad. Not as good as Star Trek, but not bad.
Was not Michael Jackson the ultimate transformer?

Are you serious….is he really trying to say that “Let’s Roll” was taking from 9/11? I would have to hear the whole context…To my knowledge the autobots have always said lets roll, or roll out…they are afterall vehicle robots with wheels….wheels roll… right?? Last time I checked they did.

Darryl Swint - So did you see the movie yet?

Sound like a bunch of black people stirring the pot. Why does this not surprise me? I would like to see the country become a country where everyone is equal. Instead of blacks and gays being put on pedestals, for our kids to worship and admire. Like they are some kind of Fabrage egg. Can’t says the ganster image is bad, might offend some black people. Can’t say gays are wrong, might offend some gay people. White people - Say whatever you want, no body cares.

This section of the paper is titled, “A Conversation About Race”. But looking through this archives it appears it is just a “A Conversation About The Black Race”. Welcome to America there are lots of races with issues, I would like to either rename your column. Or actually look at other perpectives. I am sure Abrab and Bosina in the St. Louis area have it rougher than blacks. Why not do some reporting? Instead using this as a “poor me” column.

Joe: We will not be renaming this blog.
An examination of the blog archives will show blog entries that not only address concerns and issues of groups or people of color other than African Americans, we also invite readers to contact us with topics, links and appropriate issues for the blog forum. We’ve addressed issues of where in St. Louis does racial harmony exist, looked at the treatment of current Supreme Court nominee and Latina Sonia Sotomayor, and asked if history is ignoring the biracial parentage and history of President Barack Obama while championing his Black African heritage.

We welcome any and all voices to the conversation. We only ask our story commenting rules are respected.

I have not seen the new Transformer’s movie, but I do remember watching the Amos and Andy show with my father growing up and it was the funniest damn show I have ever seen.Till this day I laugh it.

Yaaaaawwwwnnnnn!

Darryl Swint - Why didn’t you answer my question? You started this post, you said you were going to see it. Did you see it and what did you think?

Darryl Swint - When can race be taken off the table? The popular answer is when everyone is treated equally. Although a noble idea, it will never will be accomplished. Some “ignorant” people won’t hire other people because they are different. Whether those differences are the color of their skin, the way they talk, where they grew up, religion, weight, height, moles on their chins. But lets say for example “overweight” people, where given preferencial job opportunities and college opportunities. Do you think there would be more “dislike” for “overweight” people, even at no fault of their own? I think a lot of African American problems; are problems shared by the poor of any race/weight/height/people with moles on the chin. To make these issues race issues, isn’t going to fix the problem. It just create diversity and make it “us vs them”. Instead of looking for ways to help the “African America” wouldn’t be better served by looking the factors that cause these differences. Every boss, I have ever had would hire the best candidate for the job. I think it time for all us poor people to realized, we are all in the same boat. And quit playing the race card. Until people realize the issue are more based on economic reasons rather than your mole on your chin we are just going to keep fighting each other for the same 2 jobs. It time to wipe the slate clean for everyone.

Who cares? There’s not much worthy of attention coming out of Hollywood these days — at least not mainstream movies.

This is amazing - folks using Amos & Andy as an example and they weren’t even born yet - hey guys, guess what, I WAS! We listened to them everytime they were on the radio and EVERYONE LOVED THEM! BLACK OR WHITE! No one gave a d$$$ back then - it’s these “Johnnie Come Lately” people that want to make a federal case out of everything relating to even a hint at race! Who is the biggest racist out there? Could it possibly be blacks because they find fault with EVERYTHING! Such victims! Professionally in pain and abused on a daily, 24/7 basis! Good Grief, don’t any of you ever get tired of it? Do you constantly have to shake that tree to see what falls out of it! NO ONE ever screamed ‘racism’ when Amos & Andy were on - they just laughed themselves silly because it was rediculously funny! They were clever, and no one was thinking ‘black’ or ‘white” - DUH! That stuff only arrived with the NAACP, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrachan?, all all those other jerks stirring up the pot on an every day basis - for what? When are those folks going to realize that all that does in cause negative thoughts and ideas against black people because its always causing problems? When does the learning begin and the garbage end?

Joe

I agree with you, there are racial and other issues in this country. Perhaps you are right, and, although noble, the problem will not be solved. This can be discussed at another time. You made an excellent point in your last post that needs to be discussed.

You said, and I paraphrase because my kids are hyped up right now, “I think it is time for us poor people to realize we are all in the same boat.” How true is that? It seems like there are two types of people in this country: The rich, and everybody else. The rich make up 2% of the population, but they make the decisions for the other 98%. We do the hard work (teaching, policing, firefighting, cashiering, cleaning, construction) but the people who sit in their office and delegate (superintendants, managers, CEO’s etc.) get paid the big bucks. Where is the fairness in that? And it seems like the 2% is doing a masterful job of keeping the 98% at each others throats over things that do not really affect them (gay marriage, abortion, the death penalty, racial issues). If a gay couple gets married, will my life be better? Probably not. If they are banned from getting married, willit make my life worse? Probably not. Yet these are the types of issues we let dictate our choosing of leaders.

I think that 2% loves an issue like this movie. It deflects matters away from real racial issues, and it causes prominent black leaders (who I suspect have their own interest in mind, not the interests of black people as a whole) to go on tv and start politicking, turning off many people, white and black, who just dont want to hear it.

my 13 yr old daughter asked me was i offended by the 2 robots and sadly i was not. it is so odd that we as black folks get angry over the “un”important stuff and let the real issues fly in the wind. did you see that Tyrese was cast as a CMSGT of the AF? race will always be an issue because of many reasons but this is not one of them.

It is good to see a spirited debate on this topic. Though some posters have accused ACAR of fanning the flames on this one, this story was posted because movie reviewers (such as our own Joe Williams) and moviegoers expressed concern about the characters of Mudflap and Skids. Posters on fan sites noted that the original depictions of Mudflap and Skids were not as depicted in the film.

The reaction caused me to think of this: What makes this “controversy” different from the objections of Italian Americans to the Miller Lite mobster beer ads? (Link here: http://www.suntimes.com/business/lazare/1604372,CST-NWS-miller03.article)

Darryl Swint - Unbelievable! You STILL won’t answer the question. So much for a “conversation” about race.

FTPD: Relax. I’ve not yet seen the movie, but rest assured I will see it very soon. I’ll post my personal reaction once I have seen the film.

African Americans can’t have it both ways. You want to cry racism when robots use Ebonics and a street patois saying this isn’t how African Americans sound. AND you want to be able to degrade and ridicule educated African Americans for selling out and sounding white when they don’t use Ebonics. SO which is it do you or do you not want to sound like uneducated drug dealers and rappers?

Paul L: There are quite a few generalizations in your latest post. I don’t speak for the entire African American race, but the Black race is not monolithic in ideology or socio-economic status. As in every other group, there exists diversity in everything. I can assure you that “Ebonics” is not the language of African Americans. English is.

Also, there are difference between prejudice, stereotypes and racism. The article I posted deals with possible stereotypical depictions of African American behavior and speech in Transformers 2. I don’t believe anyone is saying two Ebonics-speaking fictional robots is preventing anyone Black from getting a job, a business loan, a mortgage, etc.

Last, I can’t help you on how drug dealers sound, but I’ve heard various rappers who don’t rap in “Ebonics.” So what determines whether THEY sound educated or uneducated?

Does anyone have a response regarding the similarities or differences between this Transformers 2 controversy and that of the Miller Lite commercials removed due to complaints by Italian Americans of mob stereotypes?

I thought this blog was only about AA?

I think this thread over some “controversial” movie characters will run longer than the Miller commercials and maybe already has. It’s really getting hard to keep this site afloat isn’t it?

I ,as a black man, seen the movie and loved it. But I did make the observation that some parts were unjustly racially motivated. It was clear that it was a white robot “acting black” and a black robot “acting ignorant”. And here is the issue I had….I believe that those people who truely believe that majority of black males act in that manner are just as ignorant as the robots themselves. I am so tired of this stereo type that it is sickening. It is not so much the broken english, being that EVERYONE speaks/or pick up the language from those they be around. Broken english has no barring on education or intelligence. It is based on just surroundings. However, I personally didn’t like the statement of ” We don’t do too much reading” and all th bickering and fighting.

Second issue is that I see a lot of Hip Hop references in some of these replies. First off, rap is a form of art, and while these record lables and radio stations (none of which are black owned) only choose to play or promote the unartistic and unexpressional form of the art is unfortunate. So…only fans of the music should be commenting on the subject of Hip Hop. Anyone else is commenting on a genre of the music is doing so blindly, thus appearing ignorant. “Hip Hop” culture is just a facade created by white mainstream media who really has no true understanding of Hip Hop. Tupac, Mos Def, Jay Z, Talib, Nas….these are the example of hip hop……none of which is being displayed in the characters on Transformers.

*****Stated by John C***** - “I contrast that with the images and sounds of rap music, largely performed by blacks over the last 25 years. Much of it is centered on narcissitic behavior, vulgar and rude language, sexual promiscuity, repetitive lyrics/sounds (thus, in my opinion, lacking creativity) and images that communicate destructive behavior.”

John C, majority of anyform of entertainment (movies, TV, Teen Magazines, music,talk shows, WWE wrestling, UFC, sports, Hardees commercials, ect) are centered on narcissitic behavior, vulgar and rude language, sexual promiscuity, repetitive lyrics/sounds and images that communicate destructive behavior

****Also stated by John C****- Many rappers have died via the behavior described in the music. Yet, the music remains hugely popular with all youth, particularly black youth.”

The music is popular to majority of all youth..not just black. People,not rappers, die via the behavior described in the music. Unfortunatley, those behaviors are true behaviors of a segment of individuals who lack opportunity of an equal eduacation and an oppression from those who feel these sterotypes to be true.

John C why are u soley targeting a black art form in your analysis?

Why is it when an black entertainer portrayal of a street smart individual (gangster) it is taken so seriously. Do you same people believe the Governor of California is from the future and really has a cyborg skeleton. Thats how stupid one appears when they believe the rap artist, who is stratigically placed in the media spotlight, is truely a gangster of any
sort.

And to my white peers who have a hardtime understanding why minorities (blacks, gays, etc) gets upset over these types of stereotypes…..let me explain, we deal with these everyday all day. Until you can go through the torment a minority goes through, you have no right to say how one should deal with it

‘John C, why are u soley targeting a black art form in your analysis?’

TMoore, the purpose of the post was to discuss supposed black racial stereotypes in a current movie. Mr. Swint questioned if the robots in the movie were essentially modern-day ‘negative portrayals’ of ‘Amos N’ Andy’ characters from generations ago.

I questioned if blacks themselves are more offended by ‘Amos N’ Andy’ (actually, Stepin Fetchit would be a better example) - or modern-day black rappers, especially ‘gangsta” rappers.

As a 48-year-old Caucasian, I was too young to watch ‘Amos N’ Sndy’ on television. The reruns were censored from television in 1966 (when I was five) via pressures from the civil rights groups at the time. This, of course, was at the height of the Civil Rights Movement. Through the hammering of virtually everybody since, we’ve all been told that these portrayals have been harmful to black America - and even if the people who were alive to hear the radio broadcasts/television show found the shows genuinely funny - at best, you weren’t allowed to admit it, - or, at worst, you were a non-sympathetic ‘racist’ - that whites aren’t in a position to understand what those portrayals did to the collective psyche of the American black experience.

As for me, I could support that thesis - if black America were as vociferous to denounce rap music, especially ‘gangsta’ rap….but not only do I rarely hear denunciations, I tend to more often hear this music and lifestyle defended. You yourself referred to it as a ‘black art form.’

I don’t know of ANYBODY who views, or judges, blacks as individuals similar to ‘Amos N’ Andy.’ Years ago, that probably would have been true.

Yet, I believe with all my heart that many whites view, and judge, black American youth along the same lines as the rappers that they see on television - and that’s largely because they literally SEE so many young black men emulating these ‘heros’…

…and, from my perspective, the damage that gangsta’ rap has caused black america is INFINITELY more damaging than anything ‘Amos N’ Andy’ could ever have done.

If you act, dress, and speak the part don’t get pissed if you’re accepted as what you portray.

****John C stated**** and that’s largely because they literally SEE so many young black men emulating these ‘heros’…

Please explain what is meant by “hero”, that part is a little confusing. How do you skip all together a fan of a person and jump all the way to Hero….

The blacks you see are I presume dressing the part. I assume it appearence we are talking about. How should “us” blacks dress. Who makes these decisions.

****numbedout stated**** If you act, dress, and speak the part don’t get pissed if you’re accepted as what you portray.

I ask you as well how should we dress. I love Hip Hop (real Hip Hop), I graduated with my MBA from Fontbonne University…am I not acting appropriately. I speak the same way you do. Your speech is determine by those you been around your entire life. People in Texas sound different then a person in Chicago. Why are you shock a person from N. St. Louis city talk a little different from a person from Clayton…..It’s not a level playing field so how dare anyone compare the two…..

It is funny that you bundle together a persons action with their appearance. Your action put u into a category of a person who is prejudice and just in case numbedout want to dispute the claim, like most people who’s prejudice….

What part of the definition does not reflect you comment above:

(1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

This is the problem that I have and your post just verifies it. The movie just exposed how society feels…I can’t be mad at the movie but at society…kind of like being mad at the “rapper” and not the society that help develop the realistic things the rapper speak about

‘Please explain what is meant by “hero”, that part is a little confusing. How do you skip all together a fan of a person and jump all the way to Hero….(TMoore)

I used the term ‘heros’ (and put it in quotation marks to infer that they weren’t literal ‘heros’), because by dressing the part and adopting the very visible attitudes, they are emulating these people to the point that they can almost be interpreted as heros. Emulation is more than simply being a fan; it’s admiration and ‘worship.’

‘How should “us” blacks dress. Who makes these decisions.’(TMoore)

Of course, YOU make these decisions - and it’s a free country; you can dress the way you’d like…

…but clothes DO communicate to the outside world how you desire to be percieved by others - and ‘gangsta’ rap’ clothing/accessories has a very distinctive attitude and appearance…

…and, like it or not - and as harsh as it may sound, by wearing ‘gansta’ rap’ clothing, you communicate to others that you simply don’t desire to be respected.

John C- I do agree that the clothes one wear speaks loudly on a persons character and or who they represent (like a police uniform or a women dressing in skimpy clothes). I don’t believe that “flashy clothes” , “loose fitting clothes”, “ball caps” , and jewelry should be considered as factors of not wanting to be respected. Wearing those type of clothes just represent an urban mentality. Just because you are rooted in or from an urban area doesn’t mean you don’t desire respect. How do a person dress in order to get respect? I shouldn’t have to dress like you should I ?

Let me speak on myself…I wake up everymorning, put on a suit and tie, nice pair of Stacy Adams and off to work I go. On weekends my clothes represent the urban roots or what most will say “Hip Hop” culture. It’s no different from clothes white America wears, just different colors at times, a different fit, and differnet accessories.

If I am dressing with my pants below the bottom of my butt….I am dressing without respecting others thus not respecting myself. No different from a lot of white/black women who wear low rise jeans that shows their thong from a back view. And if you look from the front you see their pelvic bone line……thank God for bikini wax…Lord knows how much pubic hair one would see.

My point is, if your discription of disrepectful dress is in regards to exposing one self (sagging extremely/low rise jeans) then I can agree. But if it’s urban attire that creates your judgement….then John buddy…it surely is a sad sad world we live in. Oh, what simple-minded our society has become. Land of the Free…..really

T.Moore - when I finshed reading your last post I must admit I was a bit incensed by it! You must spend an enormous amount of time examining a female anatomy to be as descriptive as you were about what one can or cannot ’see’ by the fit of their jeans! I find your post really obnoxious and loathing to a female! It does, however, show where your mind is!
I happen to be a professional in the legal arena. What I see on a daily basis is what determines how others form opinions of you. The initial response is one of dismay and ‘how ridiculous that person looks’, and the next thought is ‘are you that starved for attention that you do that to yourselves?’, and my third thought is ‘is that what makes up your life and shouts loudly what your values are?’ like boombox radios turned up to the highest decibel?. It isn’t ‘man, that guy really looks great’, or ‘his suit is fantastic, wouldn’t mind having one just like it’. So, if you want positive comments and thoughts about your appearance then you DO have to dress the part that creates positive thoughts and comments!
Unfortunately, the opposite happens to be true. Hip Hop, there is so much of it, and performed mostly by, it seems, black people, which says ‘this is the only thing we know and have no desire to learn anything else”, or “this is an expression from the black people because this is what we do, etc.”. So, if others have negative thoughts about black people, then who created it? Not the white’s, or asian’s, or bosnia’s, or mexican’s!
Enhance what you have instead of degrading it. I’ve been told my many black people they like to express themselves by being different - then if that is the case, be prepared to accept the negatives that go along with ‘being different’. You cannot keep committing the same offense over and over again, and then expect different results! It ain’t gonna happen! If a race of people are determined to be different, look different, act differently, have a different life style, etc, and all the other things that people perceive to be a negative to them and to their environment, then be prepared to have different reactions directed at you - you’ve done it the old fashioned way - you’ve earned it! Remember, what people PERCEIVE to be true - they believe!!!! You’ve done it to yourselves, so no one can change it but you!

The infamous Prudy…I was having an intelligent conversation with John C and here come the most ignorant person on the blog. I have read your beliefs….its is pretty disturbing/sad to see that our society still have “your kind”.

Now back to your reply.

***Prudy Stated**** You must spend an enormous amount of time examining a female anatomy to be as descriptive as you were about what one can or cannot ’see’ by the fit of their jeans! I find your post really obnoxious and loathing to a female! It does, however, show where your mind is!

A person who back is against the wall and sees his stupidity slapped right in the face tends to use insults and school yard jokes to open up a defense. I am really shocked by that. I expected bigotry but not a quick submission from the imfamous Prudy. I do love women, but find a distaste for anyone who shows there backside and or crotch. It is quite natural for one to see what is hanging out. But enough of explaining the obvious to an imbecile.

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*****Prudy states***** What I see on a daily basis is what determines how others form opinions of you. The initial response is one of dismay and ‘how ridiculous that person looks’

First off again….what should a person wear in order to meet your expectations. And who gave you or your race the authority to dictate so. Are you not as ignorant as Muslims men in Iraq who condemn women and men who do not dress the way they see fit. How do you dress Prudy…I assure you, when it comes to fashion, I will, without a shadow of a doubt put together a more fashionable outfit than you. Your thoughts are so outdated…..I know your dress is as well.

****Prudy states**** ‘are you that starved for attention that you do that to yourselves?’, and my third thought is ‘is that what makes up your life and shouts loudly what your values are?’ like boombox radios turned up to the highest decibel?.

Why does loose fitting clothes, a ball cap, jewelry, etc draws attention from you. It is just clothes that a person choose to wear. How is it offensive? Outside of sagging….which offends blacks and whites alike…what offends you. Now the loud music…I ask, are blacks the only one who listen to loud music….get you old tail up and go to Best Buy…see who are in the “boom box” subwoofer department. Better yet, let me inform you, it is majority of white males. Yet again blacks are the ones you see. Prudy it is not the clothes, music, or even behavior that cause you to have your beliefs…it is the skin color. You are a racist Prudy. And as much as their are people within my race that embarrasses me….you embarrass your race…you embarrass society.

***Prudy states**** if you want positive comments and thoughts about your appearance then you DO have to dress the part that creates positive thoughts and comments!

Not once did I ask for positive thought from anyone, especially anyone of your mentality. What I ask is for answers to how one should dress for “respect” and who makes the decision on whats acceptable…still have not recieved an answer. Just say it…WHITES decide how you are to act and dress BLACK BOY!…..Say it! I will then tell you in responds to Kiss my black @$$. Who in the hell gives you the right. Your outlook on me doesn’t make or break me. At the most it iritates me to the point to where I show you my strenght by standing up for what’s right and being vocal about it. Yes Rev Al Sharpton is a pest, fire starter, and full of crap most of the time….but what he represent is a man who is not a coward…a man who will not hide behind a computer screen to give his thoughts. A man that you are not. You are a coward like so many bigots. Stand up, get your rally posters, state that you are tired of Blacks and their Hip Hop clothes, tired of the Interracial Dating, tired of the “Blacks behaviors” tired of Affirmitive Action, tired of President Obama, tired of all the other things you post on these race forums…but wait….. you won’t…. because you are a COWARD!

In closing******Prudy states****** If a race of people are determined to be different, look different, act differently, have a different life style, etc, and all the other things that people perceive to be a negative to them and to their environment, then be prepared to have different reactions directed at you - you’ve done it the old fashioned way - you’ve earned it! Remember, what people PERCEIVE to be true - they believe!!!! You’ve done it to yourselves, so no one can change it but you!

If the human race is determined to be different from its forefathers and embrace people differences, then all that you do/say will be perceive to be racist and bigotry. Prudy and those alike, be prepared to have different reactions directed at you - you’ve done it the old fashioned way - you’ve earned it! Remember, what people PERCEIVE to be true - they believe!!!! You’ve done it to yourself Prudy, so no one can change it but you!

OK..really?????? If I remember correctly so many people got their panties in a wad over Whoopie Goldberg as the voice of one of the hyenias (sp?) in The Lion King, but they freaking forgot who the Lion King was…TOO MUCH HYPERSENSATIVITY! It is a movie and the people were probably chosen for their voices…if they had no problem doing the part in the movie, then we (society as a whole)should not have a problem watching and enjoying it.

ONE MORE THING…LOVED THE FREAKING MOVIE!!!

Give me a break. Are people running out of valid things to complain about or something? Also, stereotypes happen for a reason. As someone else has already mentioned, if you don’t like the stereotype, quit the behavior. It’s not rocket science. Another thing, if the voices were a sterortype of another race, no one would have said anything. But since it was related to blacks, oh we can’t have that. Talk about a double standard.

I agree with RE….But ,from people I discussed it with, the issue isn’t the way they was speaking that was seen as the problem. It was the ” I can’t read comment”, the nonstop fighting, and mannerisms. Again I agree that ,” if you don’t like the stereotype, quit the behavior”. But coming from a black male, it is the minority of Black Americans who act in the manner they portrayed. Don’t get me wrong, I am disgusted by blacks and whites who act ignorant. The common denominator on it all is education and respect not skin color. That is why I thought it was very important, and overlooked, that the robots were not just black. One of the robots were indeed white. It will be individuals who see it as racial, but honestly, after watching the movie twice….it wasn’t a black and white thing…but an educated and uneducated thing.

If we as Americans want to put an end to this foolishness, we need to establish a better education system for all. From K to High School….our children deserve it

And, another thing besides better education is what is taught in the home! That is as important as education - schools can be responsible for just so much of the forming of young people. They get their beginning in the home and their peers! That is the most influencial of all. They take what they learn in their home and others homes, to school with them, and then it gets spread all over. If the home is not teaching the proper behavior, etc. then what do people expect the teachers/schools to be responsible for? The schools are intended for learning how to support yourselves when grown and responsible for making a living - BUT, if those things are NOT used in the home, or the parents don’t practice what the school is attempting to teach, then its all an effort in futility! It ALL begins in the home! My children’s teachers are not responsible for their learning proper behavior, speech, social skills, communication, or dress. It starts with your first shirt or pair of shoes, etc. and grows from there, THEN the teachers get them to train their minds on reading, spelling, arithmetic,geography, etc. and then parents/grandparents assist in furthering that education and supporting that education in the home! That is, if the parents care about anything!

Purdy….welcome to this intelligent conversation!

***Purdy stated*** , another thing besides better education is what is taught in the home! That is as important as education - schools can be responsible for just so much of the forming of young people.

I couldn’t agree more. Parents have to do there part. Education is school/home/and enviromental intake. A person who is book smart but has no home training or isn’t “street smart” can still appear to be dumb as a brick. Here is where the problem lies; If you thought that the education system is poor now, just imagine how bad it was back when the parents, from urban communities, where in school. An uneducated person can not educate a child. All they can really teach their child is to never give up. Let them know ways to survive from their point of view….thats is all they will know. Its is unfortunate, but, it is a domino effect. Not too many children are able to pull themselves out of the cycle. No lack in trying, believe me. Its a old saying ” Walk in my shoes and scar your feet”. Basically, the fortunate has no idea what it is like for the unfortunate (who is streotyped, guilty until proven innocent,and misunderstood)

****Purdy Stated**** It ALL begins in the home! My children’s teachers are not responsible for their learning proper behavior, speech, social skills, communication, or dress. It starts with your first shirt or pair of shoes, etc. and grows from there

This is where it get a little cloudy for me. Proper behavior is taught from home, true…..but it is so much more involved. Majority of urban parent demand respect in the home and they teach it. You would be hard press to see an urban child (black or white) talk back to their parent, curse at their parent, etc. The behavior isn’t the issue, it is respect. A person who , from their point of view, gets no respect from their counterpart will not show them respect in return. Again…speech is simple a langiuage that is deprived from your environment. A Texan will sound like a Texan. New Yorker will sound like a New Yorker. Why do you believe an urban city product (who knows only that) will talk any different. Same goes with communication. Now dress…again…tell me how a person is suppose to dress. Why is it that question has yet to be answered. Its ok for a person to where tight fitting clothes but not loose. As long as your body is covered up, neat, and clean….I don’t see the issue. Sure at work their is a dress code. Sure certain events/venues/occassions require a particular dress. But in the normal walk of life…what is your definition of dressing properly.

T., I already know I’m going to regret this! BUT, your idea of ‘proper behavior’ is limited as indicated by your response. In broad generalities -proper behavior is not being loud and obnoxious to others, going to someone’s home and picking up everything in sight as if you were at your OWN home, being courteous and respectful when in others company, or even alone, keeping music down below a deafening decibel, not driving like a maniac on the roads and highways, not invading anothers space by what YOU are doing, listening instead of talking above a shout, learning to pay attention in class, combing your hair, wearing clean clothes that COVER all parts of the body, being quiet when some one else is speaking and not speak over them because you think what you have to say is more important (guess what, all of this goes for ALL colors of people), plus respecting another individual as having rights, too, along with many other things that are described as manners.
The thing that blows my mind is everyone is born in this same country. You, T., used Texans and their accent to provide an example of what you were trying to use as why communication is the way it is. One thing I would like to point out to you is - ALL Texans have an accent, HOWEVER, there is a definite difference in the manner of speaking between blacks and whites no matter WHERE they live. There are some exceptions where everyone will enunciate properly, speak clearly and distinctly, i.e., so, my theory is, if you are born here and exposed to the same elements as anyone else, then why do blacks have a completely different pattern of speech? I had a discussion with a co-worked once about this very subject and he stated he thought it was because his/her family spoke in that manner so it was handed down to the children - BUT, then, my question was, maybe so, but these kids go to school, have teachers, take grammar and English classes, yet they continue to speak in dialect rather than what is considered to be proper lanugage usage. It isn’t that they were born in a different country and came here to learn to speak English, so English would not be their native tongue. It then raises the question of since they are exposed to other, clearer methods of speaking then it is a choice to speak the way they do. BTW, proper behavior automatically embraces respecting others and respecting yourself to the degree that you strive to achieve the best and to be a positive influence in an environment or surroungs to project positive images about yourself rather than negative ones. I’ll give you an example of improper usage of English - the word ‘ask’ is pronounced as ‘ax’. So, that mistake has to be taught in the home, yet carried forward even through their education and on into their employment. Yet, they have been exposed to the accurate pronunciation their entire educational and adult life!
Dress - frankly, I don’t like looking at anyone’s boobs, or butt! I don’t care what color they are! If you think that is great then you aren’t being taught to respect yourselves in the home! If you don’t respect yourself then I’m not going to either! The morals in this country have been going down the tubes for a very long time, and it an insult and degrading to have such a low opinion of yourselves that you project this image onto others and then sit back and wonder why others think negative things of you. You project that image then you inherit what goes along with it!

Purdy, you make an apparent effort to single out African Americans as unable to speak a particular type of English. The fact is both culture and geography affect speech patterns of ALL people. Are there more similarities between the speech patterns of white and black Southerners, or between white Northerners and White Southerners? How about Whites from Minnesota and Whites from upstate New York? Blacks in Brooklyn and Blacks in D.C.? The point is, speech patterns aren’t just about learning in school, so that’s a simplistic way to look at it. All cultures have shorthand dialects. Where I agree with you is when this shorthand seeps into mainstream communication. In other words, someone who shares your views could in effect, reject someone who speaks a certain way because of a perceived lack of intelligence. Ethnic Russians, Carribean Americans, Jews, Italian Americans, Polish Americans, Latin Americans, Hispanics and African Immigrants born here retain cultural dialects. Again, you can’t judge someone’s intelligence by such dialects. Why do Eminiem and Michael Rappaport speak as they do? Because of their environments.

As far as dress, the saggy jeans are just as offensive as the exposed/thong exposed backsides. I’ve seen people of various races wear clothes this way. Is this specifically an African American problem or is it a social problem?

Judging intelligence based solely on stereotypes and not on performance is a dangerous undertaking. History has proved this.

Let me say that I am enjoying this conversation now that insults has ceased.

Back to the discussion. Your first paragraph or so I agree with entirely. Those list of dislikes are common dislikes. I can honestly say it is not a race thing but a respect issue. I am black and so are majority of my friends. What you discribed are not common amongst Blacks but amongst uneducated or ignorant people.

***Purdy stated**** Dress - frankly, I don’t like looking at anyone’s boobs, or butt! I don’t care what color they are! If you think that is great then you aren’t being taught to respect yourselves in the home! If you don’t respect yourself then I’m not going to either!

I again agree. Ok..ok..I do like to see it when it is an appropriate time ( in terms of females..I am 28yrs old) but find it disrespectful during everyday walk of life. A person should have clothes covering area that are typically held by under garments.

***Purdy ponders*** One thing I would like to point out to you is - ALL Texans have an accent, HOWEVER, there is a definite difference in the manner of speaking between blacks and whites no matter WHERE they live. There are some exceptions where everyone will enunciate properly, speak clearly and distinctly, i.e., so, my theory is, if you are born here and exposed to the same elements as anyone else, then why do blacks have a completely different pattern of speech?

North St. Louis City (where I am from) is a total different environment than West county (where I dwell now). Lets put a Black kid, born and raised, in West County and a white kid, born and raised, in the Baden community. One would get two different set of dialogues. Black kid “talking white” and a White kid “talking black”. It never fails Purdy, you adapt to your surroundings like all other living things. Now once the individual become connected with a new surrounding, that individual conforms to that new environment (without forgetting where one comes from..thus the term sell out, wigger, or uncle Tom). Unfortunately, many in the urban areas do not get the opportunity to be in a new surrounding long enough to adapt.

As far as slang goes…..that is across the board. Everyone has some sort of slang that they speak. Blacks should not be the only ones singled out. Truth be told…contractions are nothing more than slang itself. They are words shorten or a series of words omitted to create a single word (my definition). It only became bad once Blacks created their own versions.

You see Purdy we have a lot in common. The only thing we need is understanding and tolerance.

By the way…I apologize for the name calling on the previous post. Maybe I jumped the gun…..Now that I think about it…maybe we have more in common then I think.

T - thanks, that’s mighty ‘white’ of you to say you are sorry for the slams! Ha! Now that is a white term where I came from! Definition: means thats good!
Darryl, No, I’m not picking out on black people. It’s just I don’t know too many asians, bosnia’s,etc. but I do know some blacks and grew up with black people all my life. I’ll be honest with you here and I think you’ll agree and that is sometimes when talking to a black person I’m hard pressed to understand a word being said! I could say that about others too, if I had conversations with a Vietnamese, etc., but I’m not around them. And, that’s just a peer, home, environment habit, but with effort that can be changed if one wants to change it! When you can’t understand what the other guy is saying then that sure does make a conversation difficult! Everyone has favorite expressions, even I do. Some I can’t use here!
Now, getting down to brass tacks! Another favorite. When you (by that I mean anyone) is exposed to those negatives expressed in the other posts then that is the conclusion/opinion that is formed about that person or group! Then, when you compound that many times over, and these events are perpetrated by the young/younder crowds, then it is pretty easy to assume that the majority is acting in this manner and to draw the conclusion that maybe ALL people of that race is like that, BECAUSE, the exception to the rule is missing! Take Spring Break for an example! Those people act they were just let out of cages; have been raised without any morals at all, are out doing nothing but causing trouble, getting drunk, being promiscuious, commiting violations of all kinds, and don’t give a tinkers-toot about anything decent at all! That behavior has nothing to do with color! It is all a negative conduct problem and not caring about anything at all!
This column is supposed to discuss race issues and these issues (in my opinion) cannot be discussed IF everyone gets all bent out of joint. We cannot change anything at all unless we KNOW what the other guy is thinking, and you won’t know this unless you discuss it - OPENLY! Yes, T., we know you are a black male because you’ve stated that a couple of times, and our environment dictates how we feel, but mostly, how we feel is handed down to us from parents and grandparents from what they’ve experienced but can’t throw off! When growing up I went through some dreadful times BUT I’m not going to color my childrens’attitude by what happened to ME! That is not fair to have them grow up with hate built in! Children are not born with hate inside them, that hate has to be fostered and nurished! My kids were taught to live and believe as they saw fit and to make a positive imprint on this world, and leave foot steps another would be proud to follow in! People CANNOT continue to yell that every act is a racist act! Maybe it doesn’t have anything to do with color but of behavior, no matter the color! If two people are out making trouble, one white and one black, I’m going to judge them on their behavior, not their color! So, its WHAT people do and how they act that forms opinions! Not color!
FYI - I’m from the South. I had a black woman that took care of me daily and I loved Rena more than I did my own mother, and used to run away from home down to her house pleading could I come and live with her!!! My granddad had a farm and blacks and whites worked right along side each other every day. No one fought, no one called anybody names, and that was the way it was. Times have changed and now for some reason there is so much resentment and expected ‘payback’ for times gone by and things that happened that no one today had anything to do with. What happened to me is a time gone by, and I’ve put it where it belongs - in the past! You can’t keep living in the past, and doing things the same way day in and day out, expecting different results.
T., if we lived next door to each other, as ornery as you are, we would probably get along OK. As my grandma used to say ‘there’d be a lot of fittin’ going on’ but it would all work out if we wanted it to. And that’s the secret - if we want it to!!

i knew we i seen this some one would drag in rap look rap is music nothing more
and to this most black ppl listen to rap not i could tell u 50 right now that dont most rap cds
are bought bye wihte ppl in your suberbs like west county and small towns like rolla mo ask that
black friend how many real rap cd’s they own and because you dont live like they t(he black ppl) do dont
mean its fake and there wannabees watch the new you will see i seen they movie and i say they are black

TY, man, you need to go back to school to learn how to type or talk! Which is it? Your post didn’t make any sense at all - what are you smoking? Whatever it is you need to lay off it, and get yourself together!

Good lord! Not everything is an attack against one race or another. When any one particular race is putting out movies that enforce certain stereotypes they can’t get angry when other people do it. A lot of younger people of all colors and backgrounds are coming out with new steroptypes, slang and phrases all the time. It is time to get over it amd move on. It’s a movie and that’s it! The movie was great and the characters were funny as in funny ha-ha not funny as in a joke.