Accusations of black racial stereotypes in Transformers 2
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, one of the summer’s biggest movies, is garnering controversy over two minor Autobot characters, Mudflap and Skids. Moviegoers and reviewers note the pair speak in broken English, bicker constantly and allege they reinforce negative stereotypes of African Americans. Director Michael Bay maintains the characters were developed by voice actors Reno Williams (who is black and voiced Mudflap) and Tom Kenny (who is white and voiced Skids).
In AP Entertainment writer Sandy Cohen’s story, Bay defends the characters by saying their speech, behavior and cadence are the result of learning of American culture through the Web. Bay describes them as “wannabe gangster types.”
Wilson says if the characters had learned of American culture through country music, they would have country accents and speech. “It’s not fair to assume the characters are black,” Wilson said in Cohen’s article. Kenny did not respond to Cohen’s interview request.
Are the character’s a futuristic Amos ‘n’ Andy, bringing negative stereotypical portrayals of African Americans upon the film’s predominantly young audience? Could the characters be perceived as social commentary on negative aspects of U.S. hip hop culture? Do you buy Bay’s story of how the characters’ personas were developed?
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I agree with RE….But ,from people I discussed it with, the issue isn’t the way they was speaking that was seen as the problem. It was the ” I can’t read comment”, the nonstop fighting, and mannerisms. Again I agree that ,” if you don’t like the stereotype, quit the behavior”. But coming from a black male, it is the minority of Black Americans who act in the manner they portrayed. Don’t get me wrong, I am disgusted by blacks and whites who act ignorant. The common denominator on it all is education and respect not skin color. That is why I thought it was very important, and overlooked, that the robots were not just black. One of the robots were indeed white. It will be individuals who see it as racial, but honestly, after watching the movie twice….it wasn’t a black and white thing…but an educated and uneducated thing.
If we as Americans want to put an end to this foolishness, we need to establish a better education system for all. From K to High School….our children deserve it
And, another thing besides better education is what is taught in the home! That is as important as education - schools can be responsible for just so much of the forming of young people. They get their beginning in the home and their peers! That is the most influencial of all. They take what they learn in their home and others homes, to school with them, and then it gets spread all over. If the home is not teaching the proper behavior, etc. then what do people expect the teachers/schools to be responsible for? The schools are intended for learning how to support yourselves when grown and responsible for making a living - BUT, if those things are NOT used in the home, or the parents don’t practice what the school is attempting to teach, then its all an effort in futility! It ALL begins in the home! My children’s teachers are not responsible for their learning proper behavior, speech, social skills, communication, or dress. It starts with your first shirt or pair of shoes, etc. and grows from there, THEN the teachers get them to train their minds on reading, spelling, arithmetic,geography, etc. and then parents/grandparents assist in furthering that education and supporting that education in the home! That is, if the parents care about anything!
Purdy….welcome to this intelligent conversation!
***Purdy stated*** , another thing besides better education is what is taught in the home! That is as important as education - schools can be responsible for just so much of the forming of young people.
I couldn’t agree more. Parents have to do there part. Education is school/home/and enviromental intake. A person who is book smart but has no home training or isn’t “street smart” can still appear to be dumb as a brick. Here is where the problem lies; If you thought that the education system is poor now, just imagine how bad it was back when the parents, from urban communities, where in school. An uneducated person can not educate a child. All they can really teach their child is to never give up. Let them know ways to survive from their point of view….thats is all they will know. Its is unfortunate, but, it is a domino effect. Not too many children are able to pull themselves out of the cycle. No lack in trying, believe me. Its a old saying ” Walk in my shoes and scar your feet”. Basically, the fortunate has no idea what it is like for the unfortunate (who is streotyped, guilty until proven innocent,and misunderstood)
****Purdy Stated**** It ALL begins in the home! My children’s teachers are not responsible for their learning proper behavior, speech, social skills, communication, or dress. It starts with your first shirt or pair of shoes, etc. and grows from there
This is where it get a little cloudy for me. Proper behavior is taught from home, true…..but it is so much more involved. Majority of urban parent demand respect in the home and they teach it. You would be hard press to see an urban child (black or white) talk back to their parent, curse at their parent, etc. The behavior isn’t the issue, it is respect. A person who , from their point of view, gets no respect from their counterpart will not show them respect in return. Again…speech is simple a langiuage that is deprived from your environment. A Texan will sound like a Texan. New Yorker will sound like a New Yorker. Why do you believe an urban city product (who knows only that) will talk any different. Same goes with communication. Now dress…again…tell me how a person is suppose to dress. Why is it that question has yet to be answered. Its ok for a person to where tight fitting clothes but not loose. As long as your body is covered up, neat, and clean….I don’t see the issue. Sure at work their is a dress code. Sure certain events/venues/occassions require a particular dress. But in the normal walk of life…what is your definition of dressing properly.
T., I already know I’m going to regret this! BUT, your idea of ‘proper behavior’ is limited as indicated by your response. In broad generalities -proper behavior is not being loud and obnoxious to others, going to someone’s home and picking up everything in sight as if you were at your OWN home, being courteous and respectful when in others company, or even alone, keeping music down below a deafening decibel, not driving like a maniac on the roads and highways, not invading anothers space by what YOU are doing, listening instead of talking above a shout, learning to pay attention in class, combing your hair, wearing clean clothes that COVER all parts of the body, being quiet when some one else is speaking and not speak over them because you think what you have to say is more important (guess what, all of this goes for ALL colors of people), plus respecting another individual as having rights, too, along with many other things that are described as manners.
The thing that blows my mind is everyone is born in this same country. You, T., used Texans and their accent to provide an example of what you were trying to use as why communication is the way it is. One thing I would like to point out to you is - ALL Texans have an accent, HOWEVER, there is a definite difference in the manner of speaking between blacks and whites no matter WHERE they live. There are some exceptions where everyone will enunciate properly, speak clearly and distinctly, i.e., so, my theory is, if you are born here and exposed to the same elements as anyone else, then why do blacks have a completely different pattern of speech? I had a discussion with a co-worked once about this very subject and he stated he thought it was because his/her family spoke in that manner so it was handed down to the children - BUT, then, my question was, maybe so, but these kids go to school, have teachers, take grammar and English classes, yet they continue to speak in dialect rather than what is considered to be proper lanugage usage. It isn’t that they were born in a different country and came here to learn to speak English, so English would not be their native tongue. It then raises the question of since they are exposed to other, clearer methods of speaking then it is a choice to speak the way they do. BTW, proper behavior automatically embraces respecting others and respecting yourself to the degree that you strive to achieve the best and to be a positive influence in an environment or surroungs to project positive images about yourself rather than negative ones. I’ll give you an example of improper usage of English - the word ‘ask’ is pronounced as ‘ax’. So, that mistake has to be taught in the home, yet carried forward even through their education and on into their employment. Yet, they have been exposed to the accurate pronunciation their entire educational and adult life!
Dress - frankly, I don’t like looking at anyone’s boobs, or butt! I don’t care what color they are! If you think that is great then you aren’t being taught to respect yourselves in the home! If you don’t respect yourself then I’m not going to either! The morals in this country have been going down the tubes for a very long time, and it an insult and degrading to have such a low opinion of yourselves that you project this image onto others and then sit back and wonder why others think negative things of you. You project that image then you inherit what goes along with it!
Purdy, you make an apparent effort to single out African Americans as unable to speak a particular type of English. The fact is both culture and geography affect speech patterns of ALL people. Are there more similarities between the speech patterns of white and black Southerners, or between white Northerners and White Southerners? How about Whites from Minnesota and Whites from upstate New York? Blacks in Brooklyn and Blacks in D.C.? The point is, speech patterns aren’t just about learning in school, so that’s a simplistic way to look at it. All cultures have shorthand dialects. Where I agree with you is when this shorthand seeps into mainstream communication. In other words, someone who shares your views could in effect, reject someone who speaks a certain way because of a perceived lack of intelligence. Ethnic Russians, Carribean Americans, Jews, Italian Americans, Polish Americans, Latin Americans, Hispanics and African Immigrants born here retain cultural dialects. Again, you can’t judge someone’s intelligence by such dialects. Why do Eminiem and Michael Rappaport speak as they do? Because of their environments.
As far as dress, the saggy jeans are just as offensive as the exposed/thong exposed backsides. I’ve seen people of various races wear clothes this way. Is this specifically an African American problem or is it a social problem?
Judging intelligence based solely on stereotypes and not on performance is a dangerous undertaking. History has proved this.
Let me say that I am enjoying this conversation now that insults has ceased.
Back to the discussion. Your first paragraph or so I agree with entirely. Those list of dislikes are common dislikes. I can honestly say it is not a race thing but a respect issue. I am black and so are majority of my friends. What you discribed are not common amongst Blacks but amongst uneducated or ignorant people.
***Purdy stated**** Dress - frankly, I don’t like looking at anyone’s boobs, or butt! I don’t care what color they are! If you think that is great then you aren’t being taught to respect yourselves in the home! If you don’t respect yourself then I’m not going to either!
I again agree. Ok..ok..I do like to see it when it is an appropriate time ( in terms of females..I am 28yrs old) but find it disrespectful during everyday walk of life. A person should have clothes covering area that are typically held by under garments.
***Purdy ponders*** One thing I would like to point out to you is - ALL Texans have an accent, HOWEVER, there is a definite difference in the manner of speaking between blacks and whites no matter WHERE they live. There are some exceptions where everyone will enunciate properly, speak clearly and distinctly, i.e., so, my theory is, if you are born here and exposed to the same elements as anyone else, then why do blacks have a completely different pattern of speech?
North St. Louis City (where I am from) is a total different environment than West county (where I dwell now). Lets put a Black kid, born and raised, in West County and a white kid, born and raised, in the Baden community. One would get two different set of dialogues. Black kid “talking white” and a White kid “talking black”. It never fails Purdy, you adapt to your surroundings like all other living things. Now once the individual become connected with a new surrounding, that individual conforms to that new environment (without forgetting where one comes from..thus the term sell out, wigger, or uncle Tom). Unfortunately, many in the urban areas do not get the opportunity to be in a new surrounding long enough to adapt.
As far as slang goes…..that is across the board. Everyone has some sort of slang that they speak. Blacks should not be the only ones singled out. Truth be told…contractions are nothing more than slang itself. They are words shorten or a series of words omitted to create a single word (my definition). It only became bad once Blacks created their own versions.
You see Purdy we have a lot in common. The only thing we need is understanding and tolerance.
By the way…I apologize for the name calling on the previous post. Maybe I jumped the gun…..Now that I think about it…maybe we have more in common then I think.
T - thanks, that’s mighty ‘white’ of you to say you are sorry for the slams! Ha! Now that is a white term where I came from! Definition: means thats good!
Darryl, No, I’m not picking out on black people. It’s just I don’t know too many asians, bosnia’s,etc. but I do know some blacks and grew up with black people all my life. I’ll be honest with you here and I think you’ll agree and that is sometimes when talking to a black person I’m hard pressed to understand a word being said! I could say that about others too, if I had conversations with a Vietnamese, etc., but I’m not around them. And, that’s just a peer, home, environment habit, but with effort that can be changed if one wants to change it! When you can’t understand what the other guy is saying then that sure does make a conversation difficult! Everyone has favorite expressions, even I do. Some I can’t use here!
Now, getting down to brass tacks! Another favorite. When you (by that I mean anyone) is exposed to those negatives expressed in the other posts then that is the conclusion/opinion that is formed about that person or group! Then, when you compound that many times over, and these events are perpetrated by the young/younder crowds, then it is pretty easy to assume that the majority is acting in this manner and to draw the conclusion that maybe ALL people of that race is like that, BECAUSE, the exception to the rule is missing! Take Spring Break for an example! Those people act they were just let out of cages; have been raised without any morals at all, are out doing nothing but causing trouble, getting drunk, being promiscuious, commiting violations of all kinds, and don’t give a tinkers-toot about anything decent at all! That behavior has nothing to do with color! It is all a negative conduct problem and not caring about anything at all!
This column is supposed to discuss race issues and these issues (in my opinion) cannot be discussed IF everyone gets all bent out of joint. We cannot change anything at all unless we KNOW what the other guy is thinking, and you won’t know this unless you discuss it - OPENLY! Yes, T., we know you are a black male because you’ve stated that a couple of times, and our environment dictates how we feel, but mostly, how we feel is handed down to us from parents and grandparents from what they’ve experienced but can’t throw off! When growing up I went through some dreadful times BUT I’m not going to color my childrens’attitude by what happened to ME! That is not fair to have them grow up with hate built in! Children are not born with hate inside them, that hate has to be fostered and nurished! My kids were taught to live and believe as they saw fit and to make a positive imprint on this world, and leave foot steps another would be proud to follow in! People CANNOT continue to yell that every act is a racist act! Maybe it doesn’t have anything to do with color but of behavior, no matter the color! If two people are out making trouble, one white and one black, I’m going to judge them on their behavior, not their color! So, its WHAT people do and how they act that forms opinions! Not color!
FYI - I’m from the South. I had a black woman that took care of me daily and I loved Rena more than I did my own mother, and used to run away from home down to her house pleading could I come and live with her!!! My granddad had a farm and blacks and whites worked right along side each other every day. No one fought, no one called anybody names, and that was the way it was. Times have changed and now for some reason there is so much resentment and expected ‘payback’ for times gone by and things that happened that no one today had anything to do with. What happened to me is a time gone by, and I’ve put it where it belongs - in the past! You can’t keep living in the past, and doing things the same way day in and day out, expecting different results.
T., if we lived next door to each other, as ornery as you are, we would probably get along OK. As my grandma used to say ‘there’d be a lot of fittin’ going on’ but it would all work out if we wanted it to. And that’s the secret - if we want it to!!
i knew we i seen this some one would drag in rap look rap is music nothing more
and to this most black ppl listen to rap not i could tell u 50 right now that dont most rap cds
are bought bye wihte ppl in your suberbs like west county and small towns like rolla mo ask that
black friend how many real rap cd’s they own and because you dont live like they t(he black ppl) do dont
mean its fake and there wannabees watch the new you will see i seen they movie and i say they are black
TY, man, you need to go back to school to learn how to type or talk! Which is it? Your post didn’t make any sense at all - what are you smoking? Whatever it is you need to lay off it, and get yourself together!
Good lord! Not everything is an attack against one race or another. When any one particular race is putting out movies that enforce certain stereotypes they can’t get angry when other people do it. A lot of younger people of all colors and backgrounds are coming out with new steroptypes, slang and phrases all the time. It is time to get over it amd move on. It’s a movie and that’s it! The movie was great and the characters were funny as in funny ha-ha not funny as in a joke.