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08.11.2009 8:27 pm

“The North is not always a refuge.” NAACP’s leader meant…?

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
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Benjamin Todd Jealous

Benjamin Todd Jealous

Benjamin Todd Jealous, head of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, was featured in a question and answer article in the New York Times Magazine earlier this month. We were intrigued by the very last sentence of the Q&A, which appeared to draw a contrast between treatment of blacks in the North and South.

The last three exchanges in the article, titled “Race Matters:”

Q: You’re 36; you were born after the big civil rights struggles. Do you think that makes your generation more willing to work within existing channels of power?
A: You’re talking to somebody who was kicked out of school for organizing student protests and has gone to jail in New York and Mississippi for civil disobedience. So draw whatever conclusions you want.

Q: You’re also a Columbia graduate and a Rhodes Scholar. So you must have done something right.
A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so they say.

Q: How were you treated when you were arrested?
A: They treated me better Down South than they did up North. The North is not always a refuge.

Until that last sentence, Jealous’ comparison of his incarcerations was limited to the two instances. But “The North is not always a refuge” seems to allude to a larger contrast.

Thoughts on this? Are we reading too much into that sentence?

In your travels and experiences, have you noticed a contrast in the North and the South as a “refuge?”

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22 comments

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Interesting article Steve. A couple of things struck me when I was reading it.

First, the question about gay rights was really idiotic. Why should the NAACP be concerned with gay rights? That’s like asking the tobacco lobby why they aren’t being more supportive in the fight to stop a new beer tax.

Overall, Mr Jealous came off as very rude. I say that with a grain of salt because it was a short interview (so there is not much to go on) and you can’t always tell how something is meant when you see it in writing as opposed to hearing it live with tone and body language included. But saying “Yeah yeah yeah so they say” is hard to take any other way but as a dismissive sneer.

As to his comment about the North, I really don’t know what to think. I’m not trying to accuse anything here, but it seems to me that it wouldn’t serve the NAACP very well for him to admit that things are better anywhere. That would be like the Tea Baggers saying some spending is OK, or gay right activists admitting that homosexuality is not normal is some basic terms. Nothing is gained by showing some satisfaction of today’s world.

Maybe the angry black man approach is what he feels will best serve the needs of the NAACP. Hard to say since I don’t really know the man…

— Tim
9:26 pm August 11th, 2009

Seriously, this is getting quite old. Not sure why my prior comment was deleted, but it is a legitimate request that a blog dedicated to talking about race issues should cover more than just one race.

— Think|
6:34 am August 12th, 2009

Using this blog to pit black against white isn’t enough for you? You now want to pit north against south?

Personally, I think east against west would be a more entertaining fight.

— jmas
9:04 am August 12th, 2009

Regardless we are still talking about a person being arrested for doing something that we are told is legal. Civil disobedience is not illegal as far as most Americans are concerned. We are taught this in class at college and then the system still arrests people for such. The main problem is the profit motive as soon as people start acting in their own interest they are threatened by city hall or other powers. We are not free in this country to live our lives as we choose. My liberty is threatened everytime you take someone elses liberty regardless of reason or motive. Lately the pressure for jailing people comes from the prison industry. These folks want to make prison a money making scheme and enslave as many as they can. The constitution makes it costly for the government to jail people on purpose as a check on government. See we view government as evil just a necessary evil but evil none the less. Today folks are attempting to live off government abuse their entire lives this has got to end.

— Michael Mullarkey
9:31 am August 12th, 2009

The questions themselves - let alone the answers - reveal why BOTH the New York Times (on the verge of bankruptcy) and the NAACP (dwindling membership) have become essentially irrelevant.

Keep me posted as to when the NAACP comes to the ’defense’ of Kenneth Gladney…spiderwebs are growing on his wheelchair…

— John C
9:38 am August 12th, 2009

I agree with Think…Could we possibly get an answer to this question? Why do you on this blog focus almost always on the African American Race? More often then not the articles on this blog are geared towards and completely about African Americans.

It is called a conversation about race, but maybe it should be called a conversation about one race.

This has been brought up several times by many posters in several articles, but yet the question goes unanswered by the people who run this blog. They post our emails without our permission and do their best to avoid answering any questions we have. I don’t think I have ever seen a comment from Steve Parker. Kurt yes more then anyone else…Jean ehhh very little…Steve are you out there?? Do you just find an article someone else wrote then add a question at the end and call it good journalism? Not even a real blogger would.

I know your response will be….(Whine) but we do cover other races just look at the posts. It is true that I can do back and find a few posts that deal with other races but if you count them up 90 percent are about African Americans. Maybe more then 90%

As for this article…I had to take a double look at Mr. Jealous I didn’t realize at first he was a black American he has such white American features.

I don’t know if I have ever noticed a difference in the North or South as a refuge……refuge…a place of comfort, a place of shelter a place to go when things get rough….Generally for me that has always meant home with my family. In pretty much any state you are going to find a contrast in the way you are treated. It has to do with the people that live there and what conditions they live in.

The larger contrast you would be hinting at would be that Mr Jealous was saying Black Americans are more accepted in the South then they are in the North. I have no idea if that is true.

Maybe Mr Jealous could do a scientific study he could get himself arrested in several different states and then compile a report on how he was treated. Course you would then also have to take in account the officer’s and their differences. Not all cops are going to treat you the same way. So maybe get arrested twice in each state and make sure by different officers that way we could get a better handle on it. Wait but then you also have to take into account counties and cities because sometimes the way the police treat people in the county is different to the way you get treated in the city. There are just too many variables it can make ones head spin.

I am thinking Mr. Jealous hasn’t had enough experience to make the kind of statement he is making unless he has gone through the scientific process I stated above and I just don’t know it.Or Mr. Jealous could just be prejudice against the North.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?? The world may never know

— Rachel
10:48 am August 12th, 2009

Absolutely, being from the south and having spent most of my time there. First, it is important to note that most blacks (and you WILL disagree with this) do not act the same as they do up north. There is a completely different mindset so it is not unusual to see differences between their treatment south as apposed to north, however, it is also important to note that behavior patterns play a tremendous role in this difference. For some reason, because of attitude in both races, in the south they make an attempt to be more a part of the community than ‘different’!! Most folks in the south don’t make it an issue to be ‘their own culture” but make an effort to get along with others, no matter the color. What differences there are and not thrown into the face of the others, etc. So, believe it or not, the north is NOT a refuge as many blacks think until they get here. From the Civil War to now, the idea has been the south is prejudiced, but the real truth is that the north is just as, if not more, prejudiced than southerners! And, you can argue the point, but you must live there in order to understand the concept! Everyone tries to get along, and to help each other…they are more friendly in the south, and up north they are ‘colder and less friendly’ - IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

— Purdy
12:21 pm August 12th, 2009

Purdy, I don’t think that is an outrageous statement. I think race relations in the south tend to be more respectful too…

I wonder what Mr Jealous would think about Jesse Jackson trying to claim that the reason Michael Vick hasn’t been signed yet is due to his race. (Of course, killing dogs and lying about it and going to jail and being a HUGE public relations nightmare for any football team has nothing to do with it…it’s because he is black).

— Tim
1:03 pm August 12th, 2009

While features can dictate the ‘lines’ of ones heritage it is mostly attibuted to,particularly the black race, to the tribe, their ancestors. There are distinct features that are associated with tribes, i.e., Mandingo. They are much more finely featured then say the Zulu.

The reputation reported as being what happens in the south is mostly gossip from slavery days. Then, they thought up north they would get a fair shake because slave owners were not as prevelent there as in the south, BUT, keep in mind it was ‘pie in the sky’ HOPES, not knowledge that formed that opinion. They did not take into consideration that the influx of a new, unknown, race was developing in their territory, and this spooked a lot of folks. Some knew, but not to the degree as in the south.
Made changes in their lives and they resented it…so, the reception was not as expected..people fear the unknown and unfamiliar.

— Purdy
3:22 pm August 12th, 2009

Tim, folks were/are much more respectful, no doubt about it. The whole southern thing is different, more laid back, less competetive and not nearly so angry as they are up north.

— Purdy
3:24 pm August 12th, 2009

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