July 8: Roy Halladay and the Cardinals
Good day ..
Jordan Bastian, who covers the Toronto Blue Jays for MLB.com, reports that the Cardinals are among six teams that have expressed “serious” interest in trading for Roy Halladay, the Jays’ ace starter.
The other five are the Yankees, Mets, Brewers, Dodgers and Angels. Based on other media reports today I would add the Red Sox and Phillies to the list to make it eight teams who have interest in Halladay.
Let’s take a look…
The Pitcher: Halladay may be the best starter in baseball. He’s 141-68 with a 3.47 ERA and has a Cy Young in his career, and that’s with pitching all of those games against the powerful lineups from the Yankees and Red Sox. This season Halladay is 10-2 with a 2.79 ERA. He’s sensational. And he’s a dedicated, team-oriented star. There’s no diva in this guy’s personality. In many ways, Halladay is just like his close buddy, Cardinals’ ace Chris Carpenter. A Cardinals rotation led by Halladay, Carpenter, Adam Wainwright and Kyle Lohse would be scary.
The Reason for a Trade: Finances. Halladay is 32; he’s signed through next season. He likes Toronto, and is said to be a loyal guy, and even has a no-trade clause. But Halladay has never competed in the postseason and it’s something he probably wants to do. And getting there with the Blue Jays will be difficult because they play in the AL East. And the franchise is apparently is having issues that warrant a reduction in payroll, so that rules out giving Halladay a long-term contract extension for CC Sabathia money ( 7 years, $161 million) or even A.J. Burnett money (5 years, $82 million.)
The Blue Jays owe underachievers Vernon Wells $99 million, and Alex Rios $60 million in long-term contracts. Scott Rolen is owed $11 million in 2010. (Update) the Blue Jays released reliever B.J. Ryan on Wednesday and will now eat the entire $15 million sum left on his contract. And Lyle Overbay is a $7 million player next season.
Halladay is making $14.75 million this season, and around half of that is due for the rest of the season. His salary for next season is $15.75 million.
That isn’t bad if a team just wants to keep him through 2010.
If the goal is to slash payroll, Halladay is by far the most marketable big-dollar player on the Toronto roster.
What the Jays Want: Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi is said to be seeking a trade that would bring several high-end prospects in return. Given the financial restraints of many clubs, prospects are the gold pieces in today’s baseball economy. Most teams want to collect as many as possible. So if you’re going to give up a slew of legit prospects for Halladay, you can’t do it without signing him to a long-term contract extension. Wiping out your farm system to rent him for a year and a half doesn’t make a lot of sense. And even if you do give Halladay a Sabathia or Burnett contract, you’ll be committing to paying him a ton of guaranteed dollars into his late 30s. Will he be the same pitcher in a few years? Will Halladay break down? After giving Carpenter a 5-yr, $63.5 million deal in Dec. 2006, the Cardinals were burned when Carpenter’s elbow went bad. He pitched 21.1 innings over the next two seasons, 2007-2008. Pitchers are risky business.
If no team is willing to give up the truck load of prospects, perhaps the Jays will feel pressure to dump payroll, which would lead them to back off their demands and just take the best offer on the table at the July 31 trade deadline.
Are the Cardinals a Fit? Doubtful. They just don’t have an abundance of elite prospects. But Erik Manning of FutureRedbirds.net told me that the Blue Jays showed a lot of pre-draft interest in Brett Wallace and Pete Kozma, two prospects that landed in the St. Louis organization as first-round picks. Would Wallace and Kozma be enough to get it done? I doubt it. But what if the Cardinals threw in two other high-level prospects? Then things would get interesting. But you’d also be stripping away your farm system, and that goes against everything we’ve been told by owner Bill DeWitt and VP of Player Development Jeff Luhnow. These guys aren’t going to give away the farm for a short-term rental.
And even if DeWitt wanted to take the leap, is he willing to pay up to keep Halladay in a St. Louis uniform for the next eight or nine seasons? The Cardinals already have 50 million in guaranteed payroll commitments in 2010, and that doesn’t include a couple of arbitration cases (Skip Schumaker most notably). If you add Halladay’s salary to the 2010 team, you’d be up to about $65 million. And you’d be paying around $55 million to four players – Albert Pujols, Chris Carpenter, Kyle Lohse and Halladay. The dollars given to four players would eat up more than half the payroll.
It’s largely the same situation in 2011; the Cardinals have $54 million payroll dollars on the books. And Pujols contract expires after 2011. He’s going to break the bank if he stays and if the Cardinals are willing to pay him. Even with Carpenter’s contract up after 2011, how could the Cardinals afford to invest between $40 million and $50 million in two Thirtysomething players, Pujols and Halladay? I just don’t see the Cardinals as a realistic fit in the Halladay sweepstakes.
The only way this could change is if Toronto doesn’t receive the kind of trade offers it wants, and lowers the exchange rate for Halladay. That would make a rental more appealing — though it would still cost the Cardinals a helluva lot more than, say, giving up Chris Perez for Mark DeRosa.
But understand that a drop in Toronto’s demands would also entice more trade partners to the table, and they’d surely be aggressive. The Cardinals would not be alone. But if the price goes lower than expected, the Cardinals would have a chance to pull it off … even if Holladay is a rental for a year and a half. I remain skeptical, however.
If the Cardinals want starting pitching, a more realistic option may be one of the Arizona properties, Jon Garland or Doug Davis.
Personally, I still believe the Cardinals need another bat more than anything — especially with Mark DeRosa likely being on the DL for the next four to eight weeks.
Update: Here’s some info from New York Post baseball columnist Joel Sherman.
The first link contains a rough outline of a trade with Toronto based on Sherman’s conversation with the Toronto GM.
This link has Sherman’s take on why the Cardinals may be able to measure up as we assess contenders for Halladay.
Thanks for reading…
-Bernie


I went back, updated, and posted a couple of related links from NY Post baseball scribe Joel Sherman. But here they are:
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/07/halladay_update.html
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/07/halladay_update.html
-B
Agreed Bernie; We need another bat especially since DeRosa is apparently going to be out much longer than had recently been reported. Are there any good bat parts out there that could be reasonably requisitioned?
If this club hits, the pitching will be good enough to give us a good chance to win. I am miffed as to why the Cardinals would be a “serious” contender for Holiday if they knew they would be biting off more than they could or would want to chew. The Cards have charted a good course to get to there destination. Let’s hope they don’t spill their tobacco juice all over their good chart. The chart would be ruined if the names Wallace and Pujols were blotted out.
As long as we’re trying for the Bluejay’s ace, let’s go as well for their thirdbaseman who is batting over .325 and having a heck of a year. What’s that…oh yeah, TLR doesn’t like him
Bernie– you covered ALL the bases, (pun intended), on the reasons the Cardinals shouldn’t and won’t try to sigh Halladay..There are a lot of them…
Good job…
I agree with your conclusion that we need a heavy hitter, (as in bat), and my choice is Miguel Tejada. This would to be the last puzzle piece for the Cardinals to be highly competitive going into the second half of the season…
I’ll buy you lunch aND a few beers if the Cardinals traded for Halladay.. That’s after I get out of the Hospital from my heart attack!!!!
Dream for a second and let’s forget about it.
There’s a zero chance that it’ll happen.
Ridiculous to even discuss looking at a trade for a pitcher. I agree with everyone in favor of getting another bat!
P.S. Can we find a sucker or two to give us above average prospects for Duncan and Ankiel?
LaRussa thinks he’s smarter than anyone else, so he tries to turn a checker game into chess match. Why does he keep running these out there?
Joe Thurston - .219 & 1 HR (37 s.o. 202 ab)
Rick Ankiel - .222 & 5 HR (52 s.o. 212 ab)
Chris Duncan - .241 & 5 HR (61 s.o. 247 ab)
Todd Wellemeyer - 7-7 & 5.36 ERA (5 quality starts)
Wouldn’t it be great to have LaRussa’s old doghouse crew
Scott Rolen - .325 & 6 HR (32 s.o. 279 ab)
Adam Kennedy - .295 & 6 HR (32 s.o. 220 ab)
Jason Marquis - 11-5 & 3.61 ERA (12 quality starts)
Also let Ryan Ludwick & Colby Rasmus play, instead of them getting a couple hits and then ride the bench the next game. Ludwick didn’t set every other game last year.
I would have no problems with the Cards trading Kozma for a guy like Halladay. I think that Brendan Ryan deserves the SS job. He is batting close to .300, and while he plays a little out of control sometimes, He is a very good defender. HE has great enthusiasm too. He reminds me of Eckstein with a good arm. I would not trade Wallace, because we have an obvious need for 3B. Motte and Rasmus should obviously be off limits too. With the Greene, Glaus, Ankiel, etc. money off the books next year, I would think Halladay’s contract would be doable. I know we need offense, but trotting out 2 Cy Young winners (Carp and Halladay), a healthy Lohse, and one of the great young pitchers in the game in Wainwright (when he is on he IS a top pitcher) would make our need for offense much less glaring, in my opinion. If Halladay is healthy (as far as i know he has never had a significant injury, i could be wrong so if I am feel free to tell me) I would definitely make this trade.
As for the ones thinking that getting MORE great pitching is a stupid idea, when has a team ever had too much pitching??? Do you really think that Wellemeyer will rebound or that Piniero will keep it up? If by some chance they do, they are still not even close to the same level as a Halladay. I am not saying the Cards have to go get Halladay, but to say that adding the best starting pitcher in baseball is a stupid idea is simply moronic. Also, I haven’t heard of a true slugger being available (you will NEVER convince me that Miguel Tejada is still a true impact bat) so i would think that if you can’t find someone who will help you score a bunch more runs, than getting a guy will will prevent the other team from scoring would be a good idea.
I’d certainly explore the Halladay situation, I personally see no problem with offering Wallace as part of a deal. They guy is probably better suited to being an AL DH anyway, yeah he looks like he probably is the real deal as a hitter, but you can’t get something for nothing. Having Carp, Halladay, Wainwright and Lohse wouldn’t be a bad 4 to throw out there for the next couple of years. You win with pitching, you really can’t have too much. Rasmus would be off limits. All that said, I don’t see MO and DeWitt pulling the trigger. Keep that powder dry baby.