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03.14.2008 1:05 pm

Duncan peeved, defends his son

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

DODGERTOWN — Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan, flush with the excitement of having a new million-dollar arm in camp, still has something to be furious about. The slow-burn coach, the longest serving pitching coach in baseball history, was irate with how son, Yankees first baseman Shelley Duncan, has been described after a slide that erupted the rivalry between Tampa Bay and the Yanks this past week.

“Borderline criminal” was how one baseball official put it.

And Duncan was simmering before his kid’s suspension was announced Friday.

“I don’t like the comments being made,” Papa Duncan told the media Thursday before discussing the pending arrival of Kyle Lohse. “He plays the game hard. He plays to win. He plays the way you want everybody to play.”

At issue is Shelley Duncan’s late slide into second base Wednesday against the Rays. The Yankees and Tampa Bay have had an exchange of bad blood this spring, stemming from a collision at the plate that fractured the wrist of a Yankees’ prospect. Duncan’s slide led to a benches-clearing brawl, as described in The New York Daily News. It also led to this pointed comment from Rays manager Joe Maddon:

“What you saw today is a definition of a dirty play,” Maddon said. “There’s no room for that in our game. It’s contemptible. It’s wrong. It’s borderline criminal. I can’t believe they did that.

“That was a blatant attempt to hurt (Akinora Iwamura). And it was set up, it was planned, it was premeditated; it was all of the above. I don’t know what the difference is between that and a high stick in hockey. It was that bad.”

Dave Duncan said his son slid late, sure, but it was far from “dirty,” and the pitching coach fumed that a manager would dare to call another player “borderline criminal.” Duncan said there’s no place in the profession for public comments like that. He then went on to say that his boys — Shelley and Cardinals outfielder Chris Duncan – learned to play the game to win. And that meant “slide for the glove and hope you knock the ball out.”

The Duncan boys played hard growing up around the game. Remember, just a season ago they had to stop working out together because the two of them may have caused each other injury by trying to outdo each other in the weightroom. An article in today’s New York Times describes Shelley’s old-school baseball upbringing.

It’s one manager Tony La Russa knows. He can understand how the original crash at the plate could spill into Duncan’s slide at second and the full-fledged fracas that followed.

“Everybody looks at things from their side,” La Russa said. “Everybody’s going to protect their own club. There’s a heck of a chance that the club that gets stung, they sit around the clubhouse and say, ‘Hey, somebody’s got to send the message back. First chance we’re going to take somebody out.’

“Probably with the macho (mindset),” La Russa said later, “that would get them upset.”

Chris Duncan stayed away from the topic when reporters asked — he has his own concerns, starting with a batting average that came in at .050 today and has since dropped with an 0-for-3. And, other Cardinals players told one report to take the controversy back to Tampa. Family ties won’t bring an AL East spat into the Cardinals’ clubhouse, nor into any game.

Still, comments aren’t forgotten. Especially not Maddon’s. The media will ask.

The Rays do visit St. Louis this summer.

***

 Yadier Molina has a way to avoid collisions like the one that started this whole AL East brouhaha. He and other Cardinals catchers are taught to leave a sliver of the plate for the runner to try and get to. Several Cardinals players said they know the catchers who block the whole plate and those that will leave a corner or a slice to target. La Russa is insistent that his Cardinals do it because “we have to look not only at that play but at having the guys we want around to finish the game, too.”

***

A Dodger fan growing up, third baseman Brendan Ryan just had the defensive play of the day against his boyhood team. Here in the fourth, with Russ Springer pitching and the Dodgers’ rallying, LA outfielder Ivan DeJesus poked a bunt down the third base line. Ryan charged, scooped the ball with his barehand, leapt and fired to catch the speedy DeJesus by a step at first base.

***

Aaron Miles is over taking extra at-bats with the Cardinals’ minor-league teams today. A couple Cardinals’ organizations came to Vero Beach, Fla., to play the Dodger teams, and Miles was assigned to spend the first hour bouncing from team to team to get at-bats. … Josh Phelps returned briefly to the big-league team for today’s game, and he has been playing outfield for Triple-A Memphis. “The more versatility he’s got, the more value he’s got,” La Russa said. He launched an apparent home that Juan Pierre caught with his feet on the warning track and his glove over the wall here at Holman Stadium.

***

With manager Joe Torre and some of the Dodgers in China to play two spring training games — yes, the Dodgers’ spring training includes games in Florida, China, Arizona and California — Tommy Lasorda is the acting manager for LA club the Cardinals are playing. So I asked La Russa if it will be like old times today. Dodgers-A’s, Kirk Gibson, Dennis Eckersley’s slider, Jack Buck’s call, all that stuff …

“Hope not,” La Russa said. “He’s got the ring. He’s got our ring. If you got a guy on third, we’ll be watching for the squeeze. I know he’ll do it. He’ll be competing. Can’t take that away from him.”

***

Want a snapshot of what the give-and-take is like with La Russa when the media’s talking with him and he’s not being beamed live to an FSN audience? Mike Nadel, a Chicago-based columnist, spent a week with the Cardinals media corp and wrote a column and a blog entry with a script of La Russa exchanges.

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19 comments

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I understand it is his kid, but I think it would be extremely unprofessional for the Cardinals’ team to get involved in a tussle with the Rays to defend a Yankee player. I appreciate the way Shelley defended his teammates. That’s the way the game is supposed to be played. By the same token, let the players handle it. Shelley’s daddy ought to stay the heck out of it. He’s a big boy, and he can take care of himself.

— Elliott
2:08 pm March 14th, 2008

He definitely should have stayed out of it. Shelley is an adult. From what I saw, his foot was almost in the 2nd baseman’s face. Is that what Dave Duncan calls playing like you should?
Off the subject, but I don’t think this situation of Chris being on the same team where his Dad is really works for good.

— Elizabeth
3:17 pm March 14th, 2008

I would suggest that Chris Duncan start the season in Memphis. He’s got a bad back and wasn’t hitting much the second half of last year. It looks like he needs some more time for his back to heal. He could also spend the time in Memphis, or some other place, learning to play the outfield. I am still not sold on him as a complete major leaguer. But then, what the hell do I know?

Anyway best of luck to Donuts, his other brother Donuts and Dad Dave.

— Monkaton
3:29 pm March 14th, 2008

Dad’s comments about son’s slide trying to knock out the ball would be more valid were it not that Shelley looks to be trying to knock out the wrong ball.

— Vianden
3:49 pm March 14th, 2008

#1 and #2…

I think that Joe Madden should have kept his mouth shut too (and Girardi last week). If you’re going to “let the players handle it” you’d better criticize the manager for inflammatory remarks. He and Girardi will be at each other’s throats all season.

That being said…GO RAYS!!!

— ExistentialHumanist
3:51 pm March 14th, 2008

#4…HAHahahahahHAHahAHAHahahAhaAHAHAHahah…ahhh…yeah.

— ExistentialHumanist
3:52 pm March 14th, 2008

oh please does anyone really think that his dad wouldn’t say anything? Yes he is a grown man but it is still his kid.

— niki
3:58 pm March 14th, 2008

It’s not like the Deacon has been known for his tact and good-natured attitude around baseball. Remember him getting in a fight before a game in 2006?

That said, with the Rays looking possibly decent (assuming Kazmir’s shoulder holds up) this could be a storyline for all summer. Get used to hearing about it.

On Card related news, how’s Dunc’s back holding up, DG? Is this just tightness from not stretching or sleeping on it wrong or something inane like that, or is this going to be like Eckstein’s back problems the last few seasons? With the kid not managing to play a full injury-free season in his entire career so far, this is another piece of trade bait we might want to dangle sooner rather than later. I just hope Dad doesn’t tie Mo’s hands.

— Jon
4:31 pm March 14th, 2008

#5, I agree with you about Maddon, as I would agree that Girardi should have shut-up about the previous altercation. However, I couldn’t care less what goes on between the Yankees and the team-formerly-known-as the Devil Rays. The point I was making (to you #7 also) is that the Cards should not take any form of retribution on the Rays when they come to St. Louis for something that happened between two AL East teams just because the daddy of one of the players works for the team. Of course, I think his daddy has personal feelings on the matter, but it would be extremely unprofessional to take that on to the field.

— Elliott
4:52 pm March 14th, 2008

There’s a huge difference from playing hard nose baseball and going in with your spikes above the waist. It was Ty Cobb Revisited– and if I’m that middle infielder– that runner has my fist in his face– and I wouldn’t care how big he is.

— allen
6:21 pm March 14th, 2008

The DG vs. TLR quips in Nadel’s column + blog have me in tears. You guys crack me up. Keep up the good work DG. And give Tony a hug.

— JC
6:38 pm March 14th, 2008

I watched a video of the sliding incident at the Rays’ webpage. It looked to me that the baserunner slid with cleats to the front of the infielder’s thigh and then kicked him.

— Geoff [not Blum]
7:01 pm March 14th, 2008

i don’t have a problem with dave duncan saying something like this. we don’t know what goes on in the duncan family and for all we know, dave might have defended him to the media, but then went and chewed him out on the phone.

shelley duncan seems to be the big dumb goon of the family. that red sox autograph situation that he did to that little kid last year was stupid and classless, and this is another example of the fruit falling very far from the tree. chris has kept his mouth shut throughout his career and just played ball, shelly has been up for less time then chris and has stirred up quite a bit of controversey in that shot time.

i’m not a fan.

— zach
7:15 pm March 14th, 2008

Why do I get the impression that Dave Duncan wakes up mildly aggravated every morning, and spends the rest of his day looking for a reason to get hacked off about something? I’m not digging on the guy and I don’t dislike him, but humor and diplomacy seem to be two skills he’s a tad light in.

As far as Shelley’s slide into 2nd, it’s pretty clear he was trying to spike Iwamura — and it was obviously intended as retribution for the play at the plate the week before where the Yankee catcher got hurt. The only way you agree with what Duncan did is if you believe the play at the plate was dirty. Everything I read indicated that the collision at home was legit and no one understood why Girardi got so bent out of shape about it. That being the case, it’s a little hard to justify what Shelley did. I personally enjoyed the fact that Jonny Gomes ran in and tackled him.

As far as the guy-who-would-name-a-boy-Shelley is concerned, I appreciate that he’s trying to stick up for his boys. That said, I’m pretty sure his grown adult sons are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. Given that Dunc is paid a substantial amount of money to serve as the full-time pitching coach of the St. Louis Cardinals, I’d prefer if he kept his focus squarely on finding a way to get six innings out of Wellemeyer, and maybe figuring out a way to make Looper suck a little less often.

And as someone else suggested, let’s hope Dunc doesn’t take Joe Maddon’s comments so personally that him and Tony decide to send a little message in the series against the Rays this summer. Anyone who doesn’t think that’s a possibility hasn’t been paying enough attention to the way TLR and Duncan operate. They may not come right out and initiate it, but I can definitely see them using the first perceived slight in that series to nail someone.

— Javier
7:18 pm March 14th, 2008

#4…. LOLOLOLOL!! I almost peed myself I laughed so hard at that pithy observation! Okay, so about the Shelley thing, I saw the clip, too, and totally think it was intentional. He didn’t start the slide until he was almost on the bag and then did it with spikes up. The Rays are saying that Shelley had earlier made a comment about spiking one of their players as payback for the plate incident. No way Dunc, Sr. could not make a comment, though. A “no comment” response would probably have been interpreted as meaning he disapproved of what Shelley did (the fact that he SHOULD disapprove notwithstanding).

Finally, Derrick, thanks for referral to the article on Galesburg.com. Enjoyed reading the interplay between you and TLR (enjoy it when you blog about it, too) and thank you for having the spine to keep at him. Sounds like you won the respect of that reporter, just as you have ours. Keep up the good work!

— LPD
7:41 pm March 14th, 2008

oh please people. Dave didn’t go running to the media to tell what he thought of the situation. The whole situation was brought to him. He was asked and he voiced his opinion.

— ryan
9:47 pm March 14th, 2008

Why is it that our coaches are on the wrong side of every issue. I am starting to think that LaRussa and Duncan have no class.

Five Reasons to fire LaRussa
1. Ozzie Smith
2. Mark McGwire - he still thinks that he didnt use steroids
3. DUI central
4. Scott Rolen

— AJ
11:02 pm March 14th, 2008

Duncan’s kid made a dirty play. If some no-name pulled this on the Cardinals, Dunc would be up in arms. In fact, I’ll bet that Duncan would tell his pitcher to dot the player that came in with his spikes in the air the next time he came to bat…as he should. He better start worrying more about the Redbird pitching staff, and less about what everyone thinks of his kid.

— Jerry Cobb
11:41 pm March 14th, 2008

“He definitely should have stayed out of it. Shelley is an adult. From what I saw, his foot was almost in the 2nd baseman’s face.:”

Are you blind or just that stupid that you confuse a knee/thigh with a face?

Girardi can criticize the play all he wants, he is not the one who went into Iwamura.

— Jeremy
3:24 am March 15th, 2008