The World for Colby Rasmus
TOWER GROVE — A chorus of sources in the past couple weeks have all belted the same tune when it comes to the Cardinals: Any discussion with the local club about possible trades starts with the understanding Colby Rasmus ain’t going anywhere.
Scouts have said it. Other beat writers have heard it. We’ve reported it.
When reports in Pittsburgh — including this one from the Post-Gazette’s beat writer Dejan Kovacevic – surfaced yesterday that Jason Bay “could be had”, the Cardinals were linked to the outfielder because of several years of courtship. Their interest came with a caveat: Rasmus was untouchable. Colleague Joe Strauss hit chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. for his definition of untouchable during a Q&A session at the All-Star break. You’ve all read it (here), to be sure, but here’s the germane excerpt:
Strauss: Is there a chance that Rasmus could play his first major-league game in another uniform?
BDJ: I don’t anticipate that. No.
That’s the message that has gotten around baseball. Despite a slow start, despite a knee injury, the Cardinals perceive Rasmus’ value as much — and probably far more so — as Baseball America’s recent midseason re-ranking of the prospect.
The publication put him as fourth-best in baseball, three behind Matt LaPorta, the prospect that landed Milwaukee C.C. Sabathia.
The chance to land Sabathia (and their depth of minor-league talent) led the Brewers to consider trading their “top” prospect, and there are all sorts of deals that lead teams to redefine the word “untouchable.” Recently, one of the finer and most-established baseball blogs out there — Athletics Nation — pondered the kind of package of players it would take to get the Cardinals to reconsider “untouchable.”
In an entry from July 20, Athletics Nation suggests a mega-package of major-league players to land one minor leaguer: Rasmus. Check out the proposal here:
“The Final Sell-Off: How the A’s Can Land an Elite Hitter”
The breakdown of the deal presented: The Cardinals send Rasmus to Oakland for 2B Mark Ellis, SS Bobby Crosby, RHP Justin Duchscherer, LHP Alan Embree and closer Huston Street. Hard to imagine a package of players who could fill — best-case situation — many of the Cardinals’ needs.
Even harder to imagine it happening.
But it’s a fascinating mental exercise on both ends. How do the Cardinals hold on to the organizational philosophy of building from within for the good of the future when a package like that could so radically change the immediate future? How much are the A’s willing to give up for one bat?
With an hour to go before the trade deadline, thought it would be a good debate on just what ”untouchable” means this time of year, and if there is an another team out there that could offer a package that would change the definition of Rasmus or, for that matter, Kyle Lohse? A few months of Sabathia isn’t enough in exchange for Rasmus. True. Bay and one of those Pirates pitchers? A few months of Brian Fuentes? Several seasons of … George Sherrill?
Five-for-one is an unrealistic haul, bordering on one made for baseball cards not baseball players. But it’s a fascinating what-if scenario.
-30-
Derrick Goold said he was going to Mizzou for capital-J journalism, but after growing up in the Time Zone Baseball Forgot he was really drawn to MU sitting between two major-league cities. Goold joined the Post-Dispatch in 2001 after working for The Times-Picayune and Rocky Mountain News, covering sports from LSU to NHL and every level of baseball in between. 
I haven’t heard his name mentioned in any trade talks todate, but what is the value of SS Brian Barden at Memphis/USA Olympic team? Could he be packaged, along with say Chris Perez for the O’s lefty closer Sherrill?
Unfortunately for whatever reason Rasmus is an untouchable. Here’s a question though.
What if he turns out to be injury prone like J.D. Drew????
Considering the Cards got Barden late last season by claiming him off waivers, I doubt MLB teams see him, yet, as having a lot of value or being worth picking up. As good a year as he’s had, I have a feeling the Cards may even let him go minor-league FA this winter by not putting him on the 40-man roster (he *was* on the 40-man roster after we picked him up from the D’backs, but took him off over the winter).
Mike,
An interesting question, but one that offers instant context. The Mets’ starter Saturday, Brandon Knight, is also an Olympian. Also, every team in baseball had their shot at Barden earlier this season — and many have had two shots at him in the past 12 months. The Cardinals got him off waivers last season and they got him through waivers at the start of this season.
Not sure Olympian automatically equals desirable.
dg
-30-
Untouchable…hmmm. What does it mean to me from a fans standpoint? Yes, I believe their is a “reasonable” package out there to be had for Rasmus. The question is; is the Cardinal upper management being “unreasonable”? That is my definition of UNTOUCHABLE.
Please excuse me for my grammer error. It should “there” instead of their after the word “believe”…sorry.
Drelboc,
How dare you! For shame! Grammar errors. Tsk. Tsk.
I kid. Happens to the best.
dg
Rich - it is equally as fair to ask “What if Rasmus turns out to be Grady Sizemore”
I see no difference in those two questions: each are equally as hard to project.
Derrick,
Just because every team passed on him this past spring, doesn’t mean he has no value. 29 teams passed on Ryan Ludwick at the end of the 2006 season and look at where he is today.
And 29 teams passed 12 times on Albert Pujols. (Thank God for clueless baseball people.)
-Mike
Apples meeting oranges, especially in the Pujols comparison. The Ludwick comparison is a little more plausible. But Barden was a known quantity when the Cardinals picked him up. He’s a quality glove with a good enough bat to make him a utility player in the major leagues. He would draw interest from teams who need that kind of player, but the Olympic stamp doesn’t add to his value, nor does it suddenly reveal it.
I just couldn’t resist throwing the Pujols tidbit in
Did Moe ever tell you the story about the drafting of Pujols and how the Cardinals thought they would convert him to catching? Great story.
Next year, if Colby is not hitting at least 25 homers with 25 steals in the majors, it would surprise me greatly. All this talk of “what if this, what if that” is just plain aggravating. Injury is always a risk. Unless a player is super injury-prone (see Mark Prior, Kerry Wood) you can’t factor that into a trade decision.
Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut feeling. Milwaukee is going to be bad next year, and the Cubs may not be very well off either. If we can keep this team together this year, maybe get something for Lohse, I think we can win this AND be in a really, really good position next year when some big contracts come off the books and the other teams in the league are in a down year.
I disagree that Milwaukuee will be “bad” next year. Obviously they still have alot of pop with guys like Bruan and Fielder. But I just don’t see the Brewers rotation being as strong next year. I would think that they would not be able to resign CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets. Pitching I think will be what seperates the Cardinals from the Brewers next year.
Joey Bombs has looked great against the Braves this series. I wonder about the future of Joey though….I’ve heard everything from, “he could be a 30 HR guy”, and I’ve heard that “he will just become a good 4th outfielder”. Ryan Ludwick becomes a free agent next year. Even though there will be alot of discussion on whether or not Luddy’s great 2008 season was a fluke or not, I think though that he will probably test the market and some team will pick him up and pay him more than the Birds should be willing to give him. So is Joey Bombs the lead candidate to become the everyday LF. TLR has started him in three straight games, and every AB Mighty Joe looks better. So Raz is in CF next year, Ank in right, could Joey Bombs be in left, with Schu as the fourth OF. How much value does Joey have?
I agree that just because Raz has endured a couple of injuries is no reason to trade him. A player like Colby doesn’t come around often. He is a five tool guy. If I was the Cardinals I would resign Lohse. Then let Welle walk next year along with Joel Pineiro , and Looper. I would love to see both Garcia and Boggs with a spot in the rotation. I have rambled on long enough now…….
Mather’s place on the team now — and in the future — remains to be seen, EMC. But Ryan Ludwick is not as free of a free agent as you describe. He is only now hitting his arbitration years. The only way he’s a free agent is if the Cardinals elect not to tender him a contract.
I think the Cardinals need to find a happy minimum between “old players” and “young players”. Seems this organization wants to do one or the other but not both, and its been this way for some time. We’ve traded one extreme (Edmonds, Rolen, Eck) for another (Rasmus, Garcia, Anderson, etc). I mean honestly why do the Cardinals need 7 or 8 outfielders? Barton isn’t going anywhere this year, Ankiel and Ludwick have played and deserved spots in the starting lineup, Schu has been a great leadoff hitter(atleast against right handed pitching), and Mather is looking pretty good lately. I didn’t even mention Chris Duncan. You can’t tell me that Rasmus is a must have player for the Cardinals, if he played SS then I would completely agree but he plays a position that is very very crowded at the moment. For the right package(SS, LHP, 2B?) you absolutely trade Rasmus.
I mean honestly how much better could Colby’s numbers be then what Ludwick and Ankiel have put together this year?
I’ve seen Colby Rasmus in San Antonio when he played for Springfield. On that day, he was wearing baggy pants where I couldn’t help but think he was related to members of the Gas House Gang. Not that this would be a reason to keep the guy, but his performance on the field was tremendous. He is truly a gamer. The Cardinals have a teriffic outfielder entrenched for years to come. Why all the talk about putting him on the trading block to me in incomprehensible. It’s as almost there are Cub fans masquerading as loyal Cardinal fans and saying, “… trade, trade, trade him, you management fools.” Leave it alone fellow Cardinal fans, we have a great thing going for us. In time, you will enjoy the years to come.
DG,
Do you have a file for off-season blog ideas? Your Thursday work on both Pujols and Rasmus gave me an idea. Albert is the most heralded player for the franchise since Musial, Rasmus is the most heralded prospect since Albert arrived (with much less fanfare), and the newly drafted Wallace could soon be right behind Colby on the hype-o-meter, if he isn’t already. (It’s very, very early, but he’s tearing it up in the low minors.)
Anyway, it would be interesting to see what the Post-Dispatch and others (maybe your pals at Baseball America?) had to say about Albert when he was drafted, during his one season in the minors, as he was in camp to make the team and early in his rookie year. That would be fun to compare to the more recent compentary and speculation about Rasmus and Wallace. I’d love to see it now, but in the heat of a pennant race I’m … realistic. It seems like it would make a great topic for the January run-up to spring training, though.
Ludwick will only have 3 ML years of service time after this year. He is arbitration eligible not a free agent. And arbitration eligible for 3 years.
Five A’s for one Redbird…reminds me of a 1-for-3 trade the two teams pulled off eleven years ago involving Eric Ludwick, T.J. Mathews and Blake Stein going west. Oakland didn’t seem to do too well in that trade, as only one of their players stuck around.
(My anti-spam code for this post ended in DH.)
When people start talking about the Cards trading Rasmus and/or a slew of other propsects, I think they are underestimating just how many “value” players (i.e., productive players on the ML roster who are not yet arbitration-eligible or who are perhaps in their 1st arbitration year) this team needs to balance a payroll.
The Cards are looking at a day in the very near future where they are likely going to have Albert making about $20 million per year, Carpenter making around $15 million per year, etc. A team operating on a $100 to $110 million budget can’t support several “big contracts” like those without having a lot of “value” players on the roster to compensate.
By my reckoning, to have long-term stability, the Cards will need to, on average, add three rookie players making the ML minimum per year to balance the payroll and still keep the “star” and “superstar” players that fans have come to know and love wearing the Birds on the Bat.
This organization’s first and foremost objective has to be retaining enough quality prospects throughout the system, given that we know that not all prospects will pan out, to ensure a steady, dependable flow of players to the ML roster. This obviously means hanging onto some prospects who ultimately aren’t going to make make it, but that’s just the price they have to pay for not having perfect knowledge of who is, or isn’t, going to pan out as a ML player.
M.Mitchell you prove a good point, what the kool-aid drinkers won’t understand is when you have to trade high on a player you might like for a nice haul of prospects in return. I’m not calling for a Florida Marlins firesale, but selling high on a ludwick, schumaker, or a duncan if he can ever pull it together will help out too down the road.
I have to say, in the wake of deals such as the Kazmir-Zambrano which left the Mets looking like absolute chumps, or dare I say, Varitek for Heathcliff Slocum, I applaud the Cards brass for hangning onto a player that they believe may be the future face of the franchise. Depending on how rasmus plays when he comes up, a 2009 outfield of Rasmus, Ankiel and Schumaker seems pretty great to me. That being said, with the logjam that is the St. Louis outfield, has Mather’s recent play warranted any ideas of trading him in the future?
It’s amazing what a difference a year makes, when last year we had Adam Kennedy in the outfield a couple of times trying to fill a lineup. Or a couple of years ago when Miguel Cairo played some LF.
I was excited about the lineup possibilities at the start of the season, about what Ankiel, Ludwick & Duncan could do for a full season. Schumaker has exceeded anything I expected from him (figured the average would be there, but as a part-time player not a regular).
And now there’s the logjam of Mather, Stavinoha, Rasmus and all the other guys at AA and A. I think what happens with Ankiel’s contract this winter will determine who stays and goes the rest of the winter and next season. Some of these guys have to be the “Moneyball” type that the A’s love, can’t we trade 2 or 3 OFers for something useful there? Or help the Padres offense a little? Or the Braves?
I honestly do believe the cardinals simply couldn’t get good value for Rasmus this go round. That being said, historically, the cardinals are usually wrong, when they put the “untouchable/can’t miss” tag on a player. I remember all the trades the cardinals refused to give up Manny Aybar, who to my shock was basically a one pitch, and sometimes two pitch, pitcher.