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09.16.2008 1:57 pm

Torre, the player, among 10 finalists for Hall

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
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TOWER GROVE — Former Cardinal Joe Torre, a Hall of Fame manager by any stretch of the definition, is one of 10 former players announced this afternoon as finalists for induction into the National Baseball Hall of Fame through the new veterans’ selection process.

Cooperstown announced the list Tuesday, and the 10 finalists will be considered by the Veterans Committee for induction in July 2009. They will need to get 75 percent of the vote from a group that includes living Hall of Famers. The 10 finalists were culled by a committee — which includes our own Hall of Famer Rick Hummel – from a list of eligible players who began their careers after 1943. (The finalists from the batch of players who began their career in 1942 or before was announced earlier; it included Vern Stephens.)

The 10 announced Tuesday include four former Cardinals, none more decorated as a Cardinal than Torre. The LA Dodgers’ manager and Yankee icon played here from 1969 to 1974. He won the MVP in 1971, appeared in four All-Star Games, befriended Bob Gibson, help spread the gospel of George Kissell as one of the stars Kissell taught to play third base, and so on, and so on.

The 10 finalists:

  • DICK ALLEN – Played 1970 in St. Louis, was an All-Star that year.
  • GIL HODGES – Brooklyn great
  • JIM KAAT – Pitcher won 16 Gold Gloves, pitched for the Cardinals from 1980 to 1983, went 19-16, finished 59 games and had 10 saves.
  • TONY OLIVA – Minnesota great
  • AL OLIVER – Lumber Co. member Hit the hardest line drives … ever. (That link is for Matthew Leach.)
  • VADA PINSON — Hit 10 homers, drove in 70 runs as Cardinal in 1969.
  • RON SANTO – Was, is, will be Cubs great.
  • LUIS TIANT – Cuban great, pitched four consecutive shutouts in 1966 and was inducted into the Red Sox Hall of Fame, in part for his role in winning the 1975 AL pennant.
  • JOE TORRE — ‘Nuff said.
  • MAURY WILLS – Had 586 steals, pestered the Cardinals and was part of the reason why Lou Brock got the green light to speed his way to the Hall of Fame. Won MVP and stole 104 bases in 1962.

According to the release, the Veterans Committee ballot was created from a list of 21 total players and distilled into the 10 finalists. The total list of 21 was: Allen, Ken Boyer, Bert Campaneris, Rocky Colavito, Mike Cuellar, Steve Garvey, Hodges, Kaat, Ted Kluszewski, Mickey Lolich, Roger Maris, Lee May, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, Oliva, Oliver, Pinson, Santo, Tiant, Torre and Wills.

The results of the voting will be announced in December.

-30-

13 comments

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Santo over Ken Boyer is tough enough to take, but Dick Allen over Boyer?

Apologies to Commish Hummel, but it gets more difficult every year to take the Hall of Fame seriously.

— Mike Smith
2:07 pm September 16th, 2008

Maris belongs.

— Derrick Goold
2:13 pm September 16th, 2008

Santo, yes. I’ll try not to hold his Cubness against him. I think Wills belongs too. And Kaat. I can’t believe Maris isn’t there. He sure oughta be.

— Mighty Mike
2:58 pm September 16th, 2008

Kaat numbers compares to Blylevn except on strikeouts but 16 gold gloves make up that gap eh? Does Bert get in if Kitty does?

Where is Whitey on next round of managers and what is it gonna take to get Simmons another look? Carter in still chaps my…….:)

Simba Was career hits leader for catcher until this year.
Hit .300 7 times.
15th all time intentional walks

Leads Carter in most categoris except HRs (248 - 324) and Teddy hit in old Busch….
Ave (.288 to .262)
Hits (2472 - 2092)
Doubles (483 - 371)
Runs (1074 - 1025)
RBI’s (1389 - 1225)
OBP (.348 - .335)
SLG(.437 - .439)
SO (ONLY 694) no more then 57 in one season - Carter 997 high of 108
BB (855 - 848)
IBB (188 - 106)

Sheck

— sheckmen
4:26 pm September 16th, 2008

I agree with Mike. Allen over Boyer? Allen was a great hitter, and I guess the committee heavily weighted offensive statistics. But he couldn’t hold a candle to Boyer in the field or on the basepaths. Almost any GM, when either player was in his prime, would have taken Boyer over Allen at 3B. Now, if you wanted a 1B or a DH, I would go with Allen.

I can make a pretty good argument, even with all of the “Santo must get in” prevailing sentiment, that Boyer was at least the equal of Santo. Santo has better pure power numbers, but he played in Wrigley, a power hitter’s dream. Sportsman’s Park was death on right-handed power hitters. When you look at Santo’s home/away splits, the differences are substantial. Boyer’s splits are almost even. Boyer was a much better clubhouse guy (not a slap at Santo, but KB was one of the best). Boyer received more MVP votes in his career, and his overall numbers were hurt because of two years in the army. They were both great ballplayers – it just irks the heck out of me to hear how Santo gets robbed every year when it comes to the HoF vote, and #14 can barely get a mention.

— kenny14
4:50 pm September 16th, 2008

Santo should most certainly be in. Dick Allen should be in. Maris has to be in there. His mark of 61 HRs in ‘61 is held by many to be the untainted single season HR record. Kaat should be in.

As for Joe Torre, one of the great players and managers the game has ever seen. He handled the pressure’s of New York better than just about anyone to ever manage sports most recognizable franchises in the Yankees.

While we’re on the topic of baseball history, I can’t believe that we are in the final week of Yankee Stadium. So much history in that place. Hard to imagine, in some ways, that they would just tear it down. Baseball is going to lose something after this 2008 season without Yankee Stadium not being there, ready for Opening Day 2009.

Wills is tough, for me…If Boyer is not in then I don’t think Wills should be in. Boyer won more gold gloves, appeared in more AS games, and had a higher career BA than Wills.

— emc2013
4:56 pm September 16th, 2008

Of the ten finalist, I agree with Oliva, Kaat and Santo.

Oliva was a Twin great for years. His name is synonymous with them when you talk about Twins history.

Kaat played how many years? It seems forever, and he always helped the teams he played for besides being a great teammate.

Santo was a solid all around player. I remember him being a tough out in that Cub lineup. His name is also synonymous with those Cub teams of the 60’s and early 70’s. What a story. A good teammate/guy who played with a debilitating disease.

Strong argument:

Roger Maris;

He broke the record and I don’t have to say which one. He also did it as a Yankee and many Yankee fans did not want him to do it. He took ‘A LOT’ of mental abuse! Everyone wanted Mantle to do it. It tells me a lot about his mental makeup. Good all around player and teammate. I may have just talked myself in for my vote to put him in the HOF.

Thurmon Munson;

He’d be a shoe-in if not for his untimely death. I recall him being a GUTSY GUY who got the most out of his talent. Team leader and clutch. One word that comes to mind if you were to label him. WINNER!

Special consideration:

I always FEARED Al Oliver as a member of the Lumber Company. The guy could flat out hit. I don’t recall how he played defense though.

Joe Torre. I remember Joe being a clutch hitter as a Cardinal. A steady player at 3b base who also was a catcher. I just do not know if his resume is strong enough to merit HOF induction as a player.

Honorable mention:

Kluzewski; GREAT RED
Boyer; GREAT CARDINAL
Lolich; BEAT GIBSON.

— drelboc
7:05 pm September 16th, 2008

The names are all impressive, but the one that always strikes me as odd as not being given more credit or not in the hall yet, Steve Garvey.

http://www.stevegarvey.com/cooperstown.html

I remember going to those Cards/Dodgers games and always seeing Garvey coming up in the late innings with RISP and coming through. And it carried over to his days as a Padre, just ask Lee Smith during the Cubs-Padres playoffs.

— Doc Deane
7:36 am September 17th, 2008

Jim Kaat must be a slam dunk for election. Someone mentioned Steve Garvey? He wasn’t an impact player. Read Dick Williams book.

— Scott_Simon
8:07 am September 17th, 2008

I don’t care about THEIR hall of fame. Boyer, Wills, Torre, Garvey, Maris, Oliva and Lolich are in mine.

— Babe Ruth
10:20 am September 17th, 2008

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