Real mature Craig…I don’t know who wrote that post but it sure as heck was not me. I don’t like being accused of things like that. For all I know you wrote it in some childish plan to make me look bad.

The definition of clutch is 4 hr’s, 9 rbi’s, .500 avg, .563 obp and 1.000 slg in 7 game series vs. houston in 04′ nlcs. That may be pretty useless information for a cubs fan or a pirates fan but to me that is pretty relevant. So I won’t just focus on 1 series how about in 53 postseason games for Mr. Pujols 13hr’s, 35 rbi’s and a .323 avg.

This is brilliant. Craig and Wade are like Bird Land’s very own Statler and Waldorf. While you lose me on the Soriano=clutch debate, I’ve enjoyed very much the give, take, bark, bite, Papi, Pujols, zig, zag. The balcony is yours.

DG, it was entertaining until Wade decided to resort to juvenile behavior and make posts pretending to be me. The close time frame of the spoof posts allegedly by me and Wade’s posts as well as other circumstantial evidence amke it unlikely it was anyone else. The last spoofed post is pretty blatant as not being from me. It was also be stupid of me to “make those posts in an attempt to make Wade look bad” as email addresses, IP addresses and ISP providers are pretty easy to check.

I hope that the moderators take the appropriate action to the culprit for his violation(s) of the terms of service.

Craig that was not meet please dont make personal attacks towards me. Not once have I taken a personal shot at yourself or Larry.

Craig,

Proof of steroid use? See 2003-4 vs now. Power is down (no, not HR’s, where they are and how deep). Tendon damage. Hair loss during ‘03. 20 lbs of muscle gone. What more do you need, to see an actual needle, cream, or tab with your own two eyes? Grow up.

I’m not the only one who has noticed: http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2007/03/dan_patrick_and.html

Of course, I thought there was mention that he wanted to “lighten up” because of his foot problems. How convenient. Find a picture of him in 03-05 and compare it to now - not even close. His upper body has shrunk considerably. His lower body is still pretty stout and at his age, he’s hit his natural power-making ability so the numbers will be there . . . of course, where those numbers come from (pulling, hitting up the middle, or driving to the opposite field) have changed.

Your “proof” doesn’t hold up well, then anecdotal evidence rarely does, its not even slightly compelling

I am sure Patrick and Olberman have extensive backgrounds in human physiology and kiniesology unlike someone like Lou Schuler
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/353285.html

And I got a REALLY good laugh out of you citing HAIR LOSS, you suppose my classmate at age 18 was heavy into steroid use since he had significant hair loss before he graduated HS. Hair loss, yep now THERE is a good proof.

It is great to see a man who is such a great person, is involved with many charitable orginizations, a great family man, dedicated to his faith in God, and an all around good example for others get recognized for his tallent and ability. There are others who have better numbers in certain categories. Ryan Howard had more home runs and RBIs. Chipper Jones edged out Pujols in the BAVE category. There are others as well but overall if you average out all offensive and deffensive categories Pujulos is clearly the best. He is an amazing player and I feel he will only continue to amaze us in the future.

In all fairness, AP’s hair loss wasn’t cited as evidence apart from the other pieces of information. Parsing it out isn’t exactly a powerful argument. As for anecdotal evidence, this isn’t a court of law and physical characteristics and observable phenomena aren’t purely anecdotal if they aren’t just my observations. Even if there is no “control” for Pujols, we do have a before and after. Most adults make judgments with imperfect information and they’re entirely valid (and often correct). The need to see something with your own two eyes to make a judgment is a sign of intellectual immaturity.

As for Schuler, if you read the article, it says that he really isn’t sure of what to make of Pujols, although I find his comments about “he should have bigger shoulders and arms” seems unusually weak. Lou is certainly smart enough to know that training protocols and genetics would dictate development to a large degree. What Lou did say is that he just doesn’t “see it” in AP. While I know what he’s trying to say, I don’t agree. Obviously AP isn’t a bloated, red-faced, big-headed juiceball, but the size differential is quite significant and I’m sure that if Lou took a look at some photos he may start to doubt his own assertion. He’s also a bit of a homer - keep that in mind. Just kidding, although Lou is from the Lou ;o)

The question I keep coming back is what if AP’s use wasn’t deca, test, hgh, and our favorite oral trenbolone compliments of BALCO? What if it was limited to short-acting orals which wouldn’t increase size to the same degree as most injectibles but would most certainly increase strength big time (t-bol, winstrol, anavar, etc.). What if he’d avoid having a pumpkin head by not taking hgh? He’d be able to have greatly increased strength, a mild increase in size (10-15 lbs), very few (if any) of the telltale signs of usage, and the ability to test negative in short order. If I was going run a cycle for baseball, that would be exactly how I would do it. My guess is that if AP ran anything injectible it was in the off-season (maybe test or injectible winnie which all could contribute to the tendon issues). He could then maintain (not all the size, but all the strength) with a relatively low dose of orals. In the alternate, he could just cycle orals year-round. I’m sure that Lou would agree with those possibilities.

On the other hand, maybe AP is a freak - I happen to think that whether or not he has ever used. In my opinion, speculation as to his use is proper. We don’t know for certain (which is not the point), but what we do know is that a lot of guys did use. We have AP’s numbers, we have photos, we have some observations of his power to the opposite field, we have shredded tendons, and we have some well-earned skepticism. Just because a guy does great work away from the game and prays every day doesn’t prove much these days.

Anyway, I won’t be logging on to continue this conversation so feel free to flame away. I don’t derive my self-esteem from “winning” arguments on websites.

FYI: I chose test because it increases strength while decreasing collagen formation and winstrol because while it increases collagen deposition, the connective tissues have weakened cross-linking (thicker but weaker tendons). HGH would help offset these issues, but since I never saw signs of significant hgh use (crown and mandible growth, etc), I thought that maybe he may have used low dose deca, primo, or anavar to offset those sides.

Go Cards!