St. Louis Cardinals Community Top 30: Greene Day & vote for No. 18
TOWER GROVE — A year ago, Mark Worrell ranked No. 22 in the Baseball America survey of the St. Louis Cardinals’ Top 30. Where he would have ranked this season, after a successful second turn in Triple-A, we’ll never know. But the trade does offer another chance to measure the Cardinals system against a peer’s, much like Brian Barton and David Freese did a year ago.
Freese came to the Cardinals from San Diego, where BA had him ranked as the Padres’ 15th-best prospect. He probably would have charted at No. 13 or No. 14 for the Cardinals had the book not already been published. Barton, by contrast, was acquired in time to make the Cardinals’ top 30, and he surged from a top-10 prospect with Cleveland to No. 4 for the Cardinals.
The way the Padres are talking about Worrell, it’s seems like he could hit their top 30. As we speed toward conclusion here on the Bird Land Community Top 30, we’ll have a good idea if he would have rated in this top 30, too. Compare. Contrast. Debate.
There was little debate who the voters considered the No. 17 prospect in this list.
Then, Greene could have just been on everybody’s mind yesterday.
Infielder Tyler Greene received 40 percent of the 260-plus votes in yesterday’s poll for No. 17 on this Comm Top 30. He edged a couple pitchers, P.J. Walters and Lance Lynn, both of whom at one point late last night were tied for second place.
New to the poll: OF Shane Robinson
Joining the poll today after much deliberation between adding a pitcher or adding a position player … is outfielder Shane Robinson. (Though I will consider arguments for Fernando Salas and a few others). Robinson hit .352 in Double-A last season and advanced to hit .220/.245/.284 in Triple-A before getting an invitation to the Arizona Fall League. He’s a scrappy outfielder who can play all three positions and has speed to turn a slashed single into a double. He also has that undersized-ballplayer chip on his shoulder.
I wanted to include a position player because the Padres have one position player on their list of PTBNL to choose from, and who that position player is (heck, who the pitchers are) will offer greater clarity for just what kind of deal the Khalil Greene was for the Cardinals.
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This weekend and all next week, we take the blog and the poll on the road: Live from Las Vegas.
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Your Top 30 so far:
- Colby Rasmus, OF
- Brett Wallace, 3B
- Chris Perez, RHP
- Bryan Anderson, C
- David Freese, 3B
- Jason Motte, RHP
- Daryl Jones, OF
- Jess Todd, RHP
- Mitchell Boggs, RHP
- Jaime Garcia, LHP
- Niko Vasquez, SS
- Clayton Mortensen, RHP
- Pete Kozma, SS
- Allen Craig, INF
- Jon Jay, OF
- Adam Reifer, RHP
- Tyler Greene, INF
- TODAY
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Derrick Goold said he was going to Mizzou for capital-J journalism, but after growing up in the Time Zone Baseball Forgot he was really drawn to MU sitting between two major-league cities. Goold joined the Post-Dispatch in 2001 after working for The Times-Picayune and Rocky Mountain News, covering sports from LSU to NHL and every level of baseball in between. 
Here’s my problem with Tyler Greene- Yes, he’s a good athlete. He can run, steal bases, has good range. But he strikes out in one third of his plate appearances. Outside of the AFL, the only time it looked like he was breaking out is when he was demoted to the Quad Cities, or when he was repeating a level (AA). Even with his AFL performance, which was very good, he still struck out 29 times in 87 at bats. In that sense, maybe he’s got a little Khalil Greene side to him, only a worse contact hitter…which ain’t good.
Nic Additon. He may be in A ball, but Riefer’s already on the list, and he spent last season in low-A Batavia. Additon is 21, a lefty starter, with 103 hits in 137 innings, 120 SOs to 40 BBs and a .208 BAA. What gives?
I was wondering how much value a lefty specialist would have on this list. I’ve been watching Justin Fiske and by no means am I saying he’s a top twenty candidate, but with the need for a loogy guy in the bullpen, would that help his chances? I know that he hasn’t been a specialist yet in the minors, but he got some starts for Springfield late in the season and that would add value because maybe he could be a swing type pitcher who could get lefties out. His numbers weren’t great in the AFL, but they weren’t terrible (all the pitching prospects struggled).
I voted in favor of Walters for the No. 17 on Thursday, and he recieved my vote again today.
I really have a difficult time placing Walters and Lance Lynn behind Tyler Greene. Plate discipline is a major concern. He played at both AA and AAA last season, and combining his AA and AAA stats, he struckout 134 times. In his time at both AA and AAA he walked only 33 times combined.
I’m not exactly sure what to make of P.J. Walters. He looks to be a strikeout type pitcher, and if he can get his walks down a bit from his 2008 season at Memphis, then I believe many see him developing into a back-of-the-rotation “innings eater”.
DG, I know that Ottavino had some mechanical issues that he struggled with in 2008, so I’m not sure what to think of his 2008 season and what to make of his stats at AA this year. In his time at Springfield, he had a very high ERA and gave up way too many HRs. His poor year resulting from strictly just bad mechanics? Your thoughts on Ottavino, DG?
Fernando Salas. Young with good stuff.
You might consider Richard Castillo. He played all of last year at age 18 and got in a bit of time at Palm Beach, going 16 innings and fanning 19, albeit with 8 walks. Both rates were a bit lower in his Quad Cities time, with 79 ip, 64 h, 20 bb, 69 K. The youngest guy on the current PB roster is nearly year-and-a-half younger. He’s the youngest guy on the QC current roster, albeit with others who also were born in 1989. But those others were either split time between QC and rookie ball or short season leagues (Vasquez, Hooker, Bolivar) or got less work at QC (Sanchez, Espinoza). None of those other five got a whiff of Palm Beach.
Robinson really crashed and burned in his 141 AB’s at Memphis. He’s not shown a lot of power anywhere, with only 8 HR’s in about 560 minor league AB’s across last year and this. He’s risen quickly, but his upside seems to be a backup OF, and the Memphis debut gives pause about that. I wish him the best, but there are still prospects out there that could have more impact. He didn’t crack my top 40. In addition to Castillo (whom I have at 14, with Perez not on my list), Kinney and Salas are members of my top 25 who have not reached your short list.
Richard Castillo.
Youngest starting pitcher in his league (two leagues, actually), and fairly dominant in both. And he had a 1.72 ERA in 2007, as well.
There is a place for both Richard Castillo and Nick Additon in this Top 30. Ya’ll decide where, though. Enough write-in vote and both can win a spot — or, better yet, get mentioned in the poll. Keep in mind that Castillo definitely falls into the category of prospects that tend to do well in this Community Top 30: Young. New name. Success early, at lower level. Not enough of a track record to stop people from dreaming on what he could.
That’s not to say he shouldn’t get consideration — he should; he will — just don’t go thinking he’s being forgotten because he’s not mentioned with Jess Todd, or Jaime Garcia or Clayton Mortensen, no matter how bedazzling those numbers are.
dg
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Derrick-
I didn’t think you’d forgotten Castillo. He’s just the one person I’d ahve on your list now who is not even in consideration, with Robinson being the reverse.
I’ve been away for awhile and just found the poll. Nice job DG.
Looking the list over. Wow. Freese at #5? Garcia falls all the way to #10 behind Boggs? Vasquez ahead of Kozma? Mortensen completely out of the top 10. Thats an interesting list. Sorry I missed the discussion. I’m sure it was lively.
Looking at whose on the board right now. Wow again. Some guys I would have thought would be off the board by #18. Herron’s name jumps. Robinson had a great year. Walters.
Many moons ago (like around August) there was a similar thread on Card’s talk where posters pushed a near end-of-season top-30. I scratched out a top-50 list. Wish I had that in front of me to clear my head, but …
Another name to start considering: Jonathan Edwards.
I went with Herron. The others are worthy.
Additon and Castillo should be considered soon. Nick Additon is the next LHP prospect after Garcia in a system still consistently sparse with LHP.
In addition to Edwards, I have Steven Hill, Deryk Hooker, Donovan Solano jotted down. Solano was 10th youngest player at AA this year. These guys ought to get some consideration for rounding out the top 30.
But for the next few picks knock guys off the current board along with Additon and Castillo.
Don’t forget about SHAUN GARCEAU people….he will surprise many of you!!
Garceau’s name should start popping up as well. He pitched extremely well as a 20 year old at High A and will start next year at AA. He represents the one commodity that the Cardinals lack - young starting pitching.