Web Search powered by YAHOO! SEARCH
04.21.2008 4:58 pm

PostCards: Middle Infield Matters

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

SOUTH GRAND — Starting with a possible trade partner that probably doesn’t have what the Cardinals are looking for and ending with a question about the chances of a fan-favorite outfielder trying on an infielder’s glove, this week’s edition of the mailbag is loaded with all manner of things middle infield.

Oh, and there is also an advocacy of a four-man rotation.

Reliever Russ Springer is back. Rico Washington gave everyone a great story. And Brendan Ryan is mounting a charge. On with PostCards:

***

1st Q: Just a thought, but would the Cardinals and Phillies make good trade partners? How about Anthony Reyes, Chris Duncan or Ryan Ludwick and a prospect for Pat Burrell and JC Romero? Burrell would look good hitting behind Albert Pujols and Romero would be a decent lefty. The Phils would get a capable OF who could thrive in their band box of a stadium and the starting pitching they may need. Thanks.

Thomas Hontz

DG: The Phillies had a couple scouts around during the past home stand, and they have been one of the teams interested in Reyes before. That 94 mph he’s putting up probably only helps increase his value — though suitors are more likely to want to do a deal if they think of him as a starter. Romero is an interesting name because he’s more of the lefty specialist (.202 BA last three seasons; .309 OBP) that the Cardinals have been looking for. Not sure Burrell is the best fit right now. His bat sure would be, with its power and his three-true-outcome style. But as difficult as Burrell and his albatross contract have been on the Phillies, they need him more. Especially after already shelling out $36 million of the $50-million deal. Still, if the Phils phalter, then Pat the Bat is prime trade bait, as he’ll be a free agent at the end of the season.

***

2nd Q: How did Jarrett Hoffpauir do in spring training? So far this season he seems to be out doing our current 2nd basemen, Adam Kennedy & Aaron Miles. Look at the comparision:

PLAYER — Avg. OBP SLG

Hoffpauir - .371 .439 .457

Kennedy - .226 .333 .226

Miles - .222 .222 .222

I know Hoffpauir is going against Class AAA pitchers but that is a big difference. Can you imagine that kind of hitting in the No. 9 in Tony La Russa system or even leadoff. He may not be real speedy but he is getting on base. He is a hustler like David Eckstein. Could we see him in STL sometime this season?

Michael B., Castalian Springs, Tenn.

DG: Hoffpauir hit .313 with a .365 OBP in spring training after leaving the major-league camp. He went 15-for-48 with three doubles and six runs scored. Could you see him at Busch this season? Sure. September at the latest. Hoffpauir’s bat is what will get him to the majors, but he’ll have to define what position he can handle this season in Memphis. Hoffpauir has played third, shortstop and second in the last year. So far he’s shown he’s best suited for second base — not for a utility role that could put him on the big-league bench — and that means he’ll have to hit well enough, consistently enough and play reliable enough defense to be considered an everyday option at second. That hasn’t been the case so far. Some in the organization believe he can be that guy, just not with less than 300 at-bats at Triple-A.

Others had to remind him not to wear shorts on the bus trips this spring training.

***

3rd Q: This is a general question about baseball that has always bugged me, and I was hoping to find an answer. When a run scores on an error by a pitcher, it goes in the books as an unearned run. Doesn’t the pitcher essentially “earn” that run with his throwing or fielding error? Unearned runs exist because they are caused by a fielder, not a pitcher, but when the fielder is the pitcher, shouldn’t he be held accountable for his own mistakes? This has always seemed illogical to me, but then again so has the idea of playing three innings and then watching them disappear from the record books, like on Opening Day.

Mark, St. Louis

DG: Sort of bugs me, too. Just the wild pitch and passed balls rulings that really make a minimal difference in an ERA. Some seem like a real fine line between pitcher’s fault and catcher’s fault. But then I got to thinking about it for this question.

Just a few weeks ago in Houston this came into play. Randy Flores has a 0.00 ERA so far this season because of his own fielding error. The the Astro who scored on him was on second base because Flores flubbed a grounder. Doesn’t seen right at first look, but it does seem simple. It also seems logical. When it comes to parceling out earned runs it probably balances out over the course of a season. But, most importantly, by cutting out even runs scored on a pitcher’s error it allows for a pitcher’s ERA to more truly reflect the quality of his pitching and not his pitching and fielding. And we all know pitchers who benefit from quality defense (Jeff Suppan, Cardinal) and ones who haven’t (Jeff Suppan, Brewer).

***

4th Q: First, a question about this series with the Brewers. Have 2 teams batting the pitcher 8th ever faced each other before, or is this a first? Also is this the first time two teams have tried it on a regular basis in the same season? Now, onto the clean up hitter: My out of market option is Magglio Ordonez. With the Tigers having a surplus of offense (we think) and in dire need of pitching help, it would seem they would make a great trade partner.

Chris Knott

DG: According to sage baseball writer Rick Hummel it is probably safe to assume that the series against Milwaukee this season are the first where both teams will defy convention, bite their thumbs at tradition and … Sweet Lou have mercy! … bat the pitcher eighth. Safe to also say that the first time the Cubs bat the pitcher eighth is about the time Ordonez will be available for trade. No. Can’t see that. If there’s a Tiger or two who will be auctioned off if Detroit fades — and it won’t — then you’re looking at Gary Sheffield and possibly Edgar Renteria. All doubtful.

***

5th Q: Any chance Brian Barden could get the call ahead of Brendan Ryan when the Cardinals need another infielder? Barden has more experience, is hitting third for Memphis, is hitting .300 and has a good defensive reputation. Where does Ryan have an edge over Barden? I am guessing speed is one.

Larry Harnly, Springfield, Ill.

DG: How do you figure Barden has more experience? Ryan has 180 at-bats in the majors. Barden as about a sixth of that. Ryan has been an integral part of a team that stormed to the brink of contention in early September. Barden hasn’t.

That said, I can see a scenario where the answer to your question, loyal reader Larry, is yes. Say the Cardinals want Ryan playing every darn day at shortstop so as to prep him for the every darn day job at short next season. Well, then Barden offers a glove that Hoffpauir does not. Barden was the collegiate equivalent of a Gold Glove winner at third base, and he only played there because shortstop was taken by a senior. He can handle the three required positions to be a utility infielder — and he packed an outfield glove for spring training just in case, he told me, he could talk La Russa into seeing him play there.

Barden is a quality player. But the edges Ryan has over Barden are far beyond speed.

***

6th Q: Since the Cards could be looking at eight starters by the All-Star break, could you see Tony La Russa experimenting with a 4-man rotation? With a shorter pitch count (they are coming off injuries afterall), they could have a 4-man relief starting team, along with 4 backups in the bullpen.

Chris Carpenter (1-5 innings) - Braden Looper (6-8 innings)
Adam Wainwright (1-5) - Joel Pineiro (6-8)
Mark Mulder (1-5) - Todd Wellemeyer (6-8)
Kyle Lohse (1-5) - Brad Thompson (6-8)

Then have Anthony Reyes, Randy Flores, Ryan Franklin as backups and Jason Isringhausen to still close.

Strengths are having Carpenter and Wainwright setting the tone every 4th game, keeping a low pitch count on those recovering. Weakness would be the 2nd starting crew batting in the late (6-8) innings instead of using pinch hitters. Has anything like this been done before? Any thoughts?

Rob Sellers

DG: One other weakness is limiting Wainwright to only five innings every fourth day. So far Wainwright has shown that he can regularly get through seven and is a threat to go all CG on opponents any time he gets the ball. Having him throw every fifth day with that possibility is priceless and why spoil it.

Something like this was tried by the same brain trust that runs the Cardinals — way back in 1993 with the Oakland Athletics. (Read all about it in the Bird Land archives.) It didn’t last long. One obvious reason is how difficult it is to get members of a Win-based culture like pitching to buy into a shared-start tandem that almost, by rule, eliminates one pitcher’s chance at the Win.

The other is just the sheer quantity of arms in takes to fill out a rotation and the shadow rotation. Someone is going to get wasted and someone is going to get exposed. The someone who is wasted in your example is Wainwright, and — it could be argued — Lohse and perhaps even Wellemeyer. The someone who is exposed in your example would be the Cardinals without another lefty and eventually the bullpen which wouldn’t have the definitions (Franklin=8th, Isringhausen=9th) that they have come to embrace and excel.

***

7th Q: It seems to me that just because Stan Musial homered in make-up games this would not mean he gained back the homer unless it was the same game. Some rained out games are not started at all. Just a thought.

Jerry Dunn

DG: This question stems from the Lost Homer Search that you can find elsewhere in the blog — a link to it is on the right side column there — and Mr. Dunn has it right. But restoring the statistical value of the lost homer is not the purpose. That would be, ahem, a lost cause. No ex-post-facto Triple Crown is being pursued. The purpose of the search is to find out if it happened so that a local legend long-accepted as true is indeed true and then to get the homer logged with its rained-out buddies over at Retrosheet.

***

8th Q: My questions: Is there anyway that Brian Barton could be converted to a 2nd baseman or SS? I know it would be a tough switch but seeing how the Cardinals struggle in the middle infield especially the limited production from Kennedy at the plate not to mention he has made a few bad throws that Pujols has had to save him on, just seems like it would be worth a try. Thanks for the great reports over the Cardinals. I love reading your stories.

Zach T.

DG: This follows the annual brushfire of questions about Skip Schumaker moving to second base. The answer is the same. Uh, no. La Russa has a pet theory that anyone who can play infield can also play outfield, especially when it comes to middle infielders. Rarely does that stream flow the other way. Sure some statues look the same planted right field as they do at first base. But converting a lifelong outfielder — especially one still learning how to use his speed and agility at that position — into an infielder is a dicey proposition. You may have one outfielder going into the process and no player coming out.

This question allows me to pull out one of my favorite little diagrams from the dawning of sabermetrics. The defensive spectrum, as defined by Bill James:

[ - - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C - - ]
with the basic premise being that positions at the right end of
the spectrum are more difficult than the positions at the left
end of the spectrum. Players can generally move from right
to left along the specturm successfully during their careers.

Right now Barton is a LF. He’s working toward improving his arm and his reads so that he can also play RF and then CF. That should be his goal. The Cardinals should look elsewhere for their infield needs. Like, say, another team’s farm system.

***

9th Q: The PostCards Question

This is Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan’s 29th season as a pitching coach, making him the longest-serving pitching coach in baseball history. Who held the record before him? What was it?

Send your answers to postcards@post-dispatch.com, and the better the answer — the more details — the better chance it will be included in next week’s PCQ Answer.

***

Every week during the regular season, The Post-Dispatch’s baseball writer Derrick Goold will answer fans’ emails in a mailbag blog called PostCards, a spin-off of Bird Land. To comment and discuss the mailbag visit the PostCards blog on StlToday.com. To submit questions write postcards@post-dispatch.com or file them as a comment on this blog. With all questions please include your name and hometown.

PostCards will run online exclusively at StlToday.com.

-30-

17 comments

Comments are closed.

Thanks, Derrick.

I didn’t get to ask you a question in a ‘Post Card’, but perhaps I can in this comment box?

Do you know of any trades the Cardinals are looking at? I always like to hear rumors, and it seems like the Cardinals may need to trade a pitcher now - either alone or in a package, and middle infield seems to be where the Cards need to upgrade. Any idea on what type of trade the Cards could make? Any info would be appreciated.

The Cardinals just need someone better than Izturis, in my opinion, and I don’t think that person is Brendan Ryan… perhaps if a team like Washington falls out of the race the Cards could just upgrade a little with a guy like Cristian Guzman? Just an example.

- Wes

— Wes
7:06 pm April 21st, 2008

Can that second baseman in Baltimore play any shortstop? Has he ever? If he is available, what would it take to get him. If he is not now available, when might he be?

— b_hern
8:58 pm April 21st, 2008

Folks,

Brian Roberts has 53 games in his career at shortstop, but only a couple since his rookie season. That would probably take a heck of a bidding war for the Cardinals to land Roberts, what with the Cubs undoubtedly being interested and a number of other teams possibly turning their eyes east depending on sudden contention or injury.

Rumors? None substantiated between the teams who have been taking a look at the Cardinals. The Phillies have been around. Minnesota. Joe Strauss reports that Atlanta has taken interest … Maybe it’s time for that long-connected Cleveland-Cardinals trade to take shape beyong the message boards and blogs, what the Indians eyeing a reliever and having that intriguing spare infielder. Colorado’s Clint Barmes is playing second base now, and the Cardinals toyed with the idea of acquiring him awhile back — but that was mostly to show Aaron Miles that there were options out there other than qualifying him. As of right now, it does appear that the Cardinals are going to have a surplus of pitching and the obvious need is middle infield (c., say, 2009).

Um, otherwise … it’s … uh April. That rumor mill grinds slowly this time of year.

dg
-30-

— Derrick Goold
9:58 pm April 21st, 2008

I have video of a lost HR for Jack Clark in 1987. How do I get the info to retrosheet? Always bugged me the Ripper got hurt in ‘87, plus lost that HR, plus lost the 2 Eric Davis robbed HRs. Would have had 45 at least that year.

— dn3524
10:26 pm April 21st, 2008

How many more games would the birds have won if they had bucked up and kept Renteria and Grudzelanek (sp?)?

Seems that since O. Smith and T. Herr left the Lou ballyard, mid-infield has been a problem except when those two were together.

— KMac
10:37 pm April 21st, 2008

dn3524 - thanks for the Jack Clark memory jogger.
Aside from the homers you mentioned, Clark rarely got robbed during an at bat. I loved watching that guy go all out to smash the ball. Nobody swung the bat more violently at that high a skill level than Clark. His homer against the LA bums off Niedenfueher (sp?) in ‘85 was all that and more! Pedro G in left slamming his glove to the turf caps off that great Cards moment.

— KMac
10:56 pm April 21st, 2008

It is clear Colby Rasmus is the future in centerfield for the cardinals and if Rick Akiel keeps getting better and Chris Duncan stays healthy and you have Ryan Ludwick and Brian Barton for back ups and with Skip Shumaker coming up as an infielder why would the cardinals not look at the possibility as putting Skip at a middle infield spot? I know it would not happen this season but if everything went as I described he has been a great lead off hitter and he is athletic enough he could make the transfer and it would make the lineup that much deeper without leaving one the outfielders out of the lineup.

— Mike H.
11:38 pm April 21st, 2008

It is clear Colby Rasmus is the future in center for the Cards and if Rick Ankiel keeps getting better and if Chris Duncan can stay healthy and with Ryan Ludwick and Brian Barton as back ups and with Skip Shumaker coming up as a infielder would the Cards look at the possibility putting Skip in the infield? I know it would not happen this season but with Skip being a very good leadoff hitter it would make there lineup that much deeper because you still have all your outfielders in the lineup and I know Skip is athletic enough to make the change.

— Mike Huber
11:55 pm April 21st, 2008

Renteria is the one who truly got away…. He’s a right handed bat, provides good defense, has some speed and consistently (career wise) mashes left handers which seems to be an ongoing issue with the Cardinals the last several years. Just imagine him in the two slot sandwiched between Schu and Albert…. Ah the stuff of dreams…. Sometimes protection in a lineup comes in front of the player needing protection….

Allen

— allen
8:56 am April 22nd, 2008

dn3524,

Visit http://www.Retrosheet.org and its Lost Homer page and there is information there how to reach the governing body with proof of a lost home run. You can also type those terms into a Google search and it will zip you right to the page.

Allen,

While not the caliber of hitter or shortstop as Edgar Renteria, David Eckstein was in many ways an ideal fit for the Cardinals. The sting of Renteria’s absence was reduced greatly by how Eckstein satisfied so many of the Cardinals needs: leadoff hitter, reliable shortstop and, yes, even tone-setter, etc. The union of the Cardinals and Eckstein was better than the sum of its parts. That said, the one that got away, to me, is Mark Grudzielanek. Look at what he brought to the Cardinals — depth to the lineup offensively; Gold Glove play defensively — and look at the carousel of second basemen the Cardinals have gone through since.

Had no idea where these quick box-score numbers would take me, but they are striking:

Grud since leaving Cardinals: 1,061 AB, 162 R, 317 H, 105 RBI, .299 BA, 265 GM
Cardinals’ 2B since Grud left: 1,698 AB, 158 R, 363 H, 111 RBI, .214 BA

Oh, and he won a Gold Glove on the other side of the state.

Yikes.

dg
-30-

— Derrick Goold
9:48 am April 22nd, 2008

Speaking of ones who got away, how about this…

2000 MLB Draft
Cardinals 13th pick - Shaun Boyd, 2B!?
Phillies 15th pick - CHASE UTLEY, 2B

Unreal…

DG, am I off base when I say Cards high draft picks have been bad.

— StlKerby
12:13 pm April 22nd, 2008

Derrick,

I get a kick out of these Schumaker-or-Barton-to-the-infield suggestions; they bring back memories.

In September 1982, I stayed an extra day in St. Louis, hoping to see the division clinching game on Sunday (but Whitey decided to give Andujar an extra day’s rest and pitched Eric Rasmussen instead and we lost to Fergie Jenkins and the Cubs by a rather one-sided score). While sitting way up there in the center field general admission seats (those are the seats later replaced by the flags), a fan sitting next to me suggested (nay, insisted) in all seriousness that the Cards needed to put David Green back in center field and move Willie McGee to second base, because that guy at second base (Tommy Herr) was never going to be a major-league hitter.

As for the pitching coach question, going on a pure guess, I’ll suggest either Leo Mazzone or Jim Turner.

— Jmodene
1:34 pm April 22nd, 2008

Hey all you (true Cardinals) NATIONals: Think you may get a kick out of this…

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/tuck-sez-memo-to-espn/

Cheers,

TUCK!
http://www.hardballtimes.com

— TUCK!
9:33 pm April 23rd, 2008

Sure am glad Brendan Ryan wasn’t at SS tonight.

— SleepyCA
12:02 am April 24th, 2008

Tuck,

Good stuff. As always.

And, Sleepy,

Please elaborate? Mr. Fantastic would have had to have been at shortstop to make a catch on that throw to the base by Reyes.

dg
-30-

— Derrick Goold
12:04 am April 24th, 2008

The throw looked fine to me; AK caught it almost directly behind the bag. Miles just didn’t get to the bag in time to catch it. It’s a good thing AK was backing the play up, but that one was on miles and it ended up costing us the game.

Good on Reyes for taking the blame in the interview, though.

— SleepyCA
12:50 pm April 24th, 2008

SleepyCA, i think your wrong about Ryan. As far as im concerned, tonight’s (Friday) lineup is the best of the year, except that Wainwright is not pitching. Ryan is a solid shortstop and his offense is stronger than both miles and izturis. Cesar may have him on defense but not on offense.

The lineup tonight:

Schumaker RF
Ankeil CF
Pujols 1B
Duncun LF
Glaus 3B
Kennedy 2B
Molina C
Looper P
Ryan SS

— Andrew
9:51 pm April 25th, 2008