After Tiller: two ex-abortion doctors speak out
credit: Salon
After Dr. George Tiller’s murder on Pentecost Sunday, much has been written about late-term abortion. Among the many comments are two you might not have run across, both from former abortion doctors, Bernard Nathanson and Mary L. Davenport.
Bernard Nathanson has previously been interviewed by Julia Duin, religion writer for the Washington Times, so in the wake of Dr. Tiller’s murder, she decided to re-interview Dr. Nathanson, a former abortionist who was at the heart of the pro-choice movement in the sixties and seventies:
Soon after late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was killed, I called one of his mentors, Bernard Nathanson. The former Jewish atheist who presided over 75,000 abortions - including that of his own child - in the 1960s and 1970s left the abortion industry upon the advent of ultrasound technology.
His now-classic video “The Silent Scream” shows an unborn child recoiling from a vacuum abortion device before being sucked to its death. He was baptized a Roman Catholic in late 1996, and in an interview with me then, he said he converted because he feared going to hell.
“I have such heavy moral baggage to drag into the next world,” he explained…..
“I knew George Tiller years ago when I was on the pro-abortion side. He came to a course I was giving in the technique of abortion in New York in 1970 under the auspices of NARAL. And I did late-term abortions until I changed my opinion as of 1980.
“My switch to pro-life had nothing to do with religion,” he added. “Tiller was a church-going man, which doesn’t say a whole lot in this country, but one wonders why he never changed his mind based on the scientific evidence. That is where I changed my mind, based on fetoscopies and ultrasound studies.
“Once we had ultrasound in place, we could study the fetus and see it was a member of our community. If you don’t do that, you’re just a creature of political ideology. In 1970, there were approximately 1,100 articles on the functioning of the fetus. By 1990, there were 22,000. The data piled up swiftly and opened a window into the womb…..”
Mary L. Davenport is not so familiar a name, though she is now the president elect of the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists.
A few days ago Dr. Davenport published on the Family Research Council’s website a discourse titled Late-Term Abortions are Never Necessary.
Among her comments:
Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, shocked the general public in 1997 when he admitted that the vast majority of partial-birth abortions were performed on healthy mothers and babies.5 Contrary to the assertion of abortion rights supporters that late-term abortion is performed for serious reasons, surveys of late abortion patients confirm that the vast majority occur because of delay in diagnosis of pregnancy.6 They are done for similar reasons as early abortions: relationship problems, young or old maternal age, education or financial concerns…..7
Peggy Jarman of the Pro-Choice Action League stated that about three-fourths of Tiller’s late-term patients were teenagers who denied to themselves or their families that they were pregnant until that fact could no longer be obscured…..8
Intentional abortion for maternal health, particularly after viability, is one of the great deceptions used to justify all abortion…..
An unfortunate reality is that the legal burden for the physician is severe if all possible risks of continuing the pregnancy are not communicated to the patient. In the U.S., multi-million dollar court judgments for “wrongful life” are allowed if the patients assert that they would have had an abortion had they known a particular problem might have ensued. It is impossible to foresee and enumerate each and every possible complication. But if abortion is recommended, even with minimal or no justification, there is no legal penalty…..
Fetal problems are the other serious rationale for considering abortion, and diagnosis of these abnormalities has multiplied with the increased use of ultrasound in pregnancy. Ultrasound studies of fetal anatomy are often done at 18-20 weeks, so abortions done as a result of these scans are late abortions. But ultrasound is imperfect and analysis of the images can result in inaccurate interpretations…..
For fatal birth defects, abortion is sometimes presented as the only option. But a better alternative is perinatal hospice. This involves continuing the pregnancy until labor begins and giving birth normally, in a setting of comfort and support until natural death occurs…..
Many couples who have had abortions for birth defects suffer from adverse long-term psychological effects and prolonged grief reactions.14 Children who learn that their mothers aborted their siblings can suffer feelings of worthlessness, guilt, distrust and rage.15
There are couples who are willing to adopt children with Down syndrome or other birth defects, but genetic counselors frequently do not give patients this information…..
Although parents choosing abortion may allege that the disabled child is better off not existing, disabled adults would contest that assertion. When surveyed in numerous studies, no differences have been found between disabled and “able-bodied” people as to their satisfaction with life…..
Perhaps the most important piece of information offered by Dr. Davenport is found in her footnote #12:
A directory of pro-life maternal-fetal medicine specialists can be found on-line. Go to: <www.prolifemfm.org>. These superbly qualified physicians are eager to help women who have been advised to undergo an abortion for medical reasons or fetal birth defects.
One of our Women for Faith & Family founders has two M.D. sons, both of whom are maternal-fetal specialists.
Some of the rest of us at W.F.F. have carried through pregnancies in which our children suffered from fatal birth defects. One of us regularly writes and speaks about Karen, a Down Syndrome daughter who died at 5 months.
No regrets.
As William Blake has written, “Joy and woe are woven fine.”
Sherry Tyree, 66, a graduate of John Burroughs School and Washington University, is a founding member (1984) and Vice President of Women for Faith & Family, a national Catholic women's organization that supports and defends traditional church teachings. Sherry is married to Dr. Donald A. Tyree, professor emeritus, School of Business, St. Louis University. 
Kit,
Where did anyone state that anyone should sit idly by and watch things fall apart.
You state:
As part of the ministry of reconciliation, we are supposed to engage the world as ambassadors of the heavenly kingdom that we live in as well as the earthly kingdom we live in…but I am arguing from a Lutheran perspective, which may be foreign to you.
—————————————
Your words sound real pretty and angelic like but don’t tell us much. How do the Lutheran perspective tell you to go about all those beautiful sounding words?
My only point here is that the world need to witness Christians going about the business of God on this earth as we have been the example and instruction in Scripture according to the Word of God which people rarely witness because those Christians with the loudest voices and most attention aren’t the examples of what we see in Scripture or what Scripture truly teach.
Correction:
My only point here is that the world need to witness Christians going about the business of God on this earth as we have been [given by the] example[s] and instruction[s] in Scripture according to the Word of God which people rarely witness because, those Christians with the loudest voices and most attention aren’t the examples of what we see in Scripture or what Scripture truly teach.
With scripture or without scripture, there is NO justification for aborting a child.Sinners,athiest, and christians abroad all understand that abortion is murder. Murder is illegal right? Am I allowed to kill someone because they are an inconvenience to me? and for those of you who feel that a woman’s “choice” would be taken away as a result of potential anti-abortion laws are wrong. Laws do not take away your freedom of choice, they only give you a consequence for the choice that you make. If you choose to abort or assist someone in aborting, you should reap the same consequences of those who are in prison now: death row or life in prison.
If there was a consequence for such inhuman behavior, I bet young woman would proceed with caution. Spontaneously they would find positive solutions for their “inconveniences”.
Has anyone stopped to consider the reasons why woman abort? Can you not see that it is a very selfish and dehumanizing act? To murder an innocent baby because the mother feels like its life would cause her so much trouble is pathetic. What kind of heartless person could advocate such?
No human being on this world can predict or know for certain whats in store for anyones life; only God can see that. You do not even know for certain your own.Stop trying to play the role of God and realize how powerless you truly are, and again D. WALKER, stop taking scripture out of context and see God’s word for what it REALLY is. Stop trying to mold the bible into a replica of YOUR mind. Stop attempting to make the bible meet the needs of this secular world.
mother of two,
There are truly no justifications for any sin. But, it takes people knowing and understanding that truth. Most Christians as we witness everyday have not even grown into a spiritual point of maturity to even truly understand and truly believe that fact. It takes great spiritual maturity to get to such a point. Most all Christians know this from hearing this fact but most have not reached a point of maturity where they truly believe this until they begin seeing how they are becoming changed and overcoming sinful areas within their own life. How crazy to expect one outside religion to understand or believe these things we have come to know as TRUTH.
The problem with Christians like you is that you don’t accept the all of God’s Word and examples. You accept what you want from them and reject others as proven from the words that you speak. You do not even recognize the things that you are able to change and those that you are not. Nor do you even see what is truly important to God as shown through Scripture concerning His instruction.
You also have deceived yourself that you are more moral than me because I don’t see abortion as you see it. No, I don’t see abortion as the same as murder or even the same as death of someone who has been guilty of sin in their earthly lives because it is not the same and people like you can’t accept that fact because then it would change the path you are on and you can’t have that because the “Pro-Life” cause is way more important to you than anything else God has shown us through Scripture to the point that you are greatly neglecting what is important.
If only males and females did not have sex outside marriage, if only men where the men God intended, if only all children were conceived within a marriage, if only there were enough people willing to adopt Black babies, if only people were not so self-centered and was God centered, if only people always made good moral decisions there would never be the desire for an abortion. If only there was no sin and we were all made perfect and in God’s Kingdom right now instead of to come.
—————————————-
You ask:
Can you not see that it is a very selfish and dehumanizing act?
————————————————-
Isn’t selfishness proof that one is far apart from being God centered? Isn’t that what most who are in the world are? These are both bibilical facts and just plain life facts and there isn’t anything that you or anyone else can do to change that. It is useless being so self-righteous with people who are far apart from God, they will not get it and is the reason why God gave us instruction on how to go about reaching people.
You are no more moral than me because I don’t see a baby aborted as being in a dangerous place but where I see the women herself who is in a dangerous place in her life spiritually.
Women have abortions for many different reasons and it is not up to you or anyone else to judge these women. Leave those in the world to God but never give up attempting to reach those in the world by what God has instructed us to do and more importantly HOW He instructed us to do this.
Scripture also tell us:
That it is none of your business to judge outsiders who are non-believers and that God will judge them but that you should judge the members of your own fellowship. Stating as the scripture says, “Remove the evil person from your group”. [1 Corithians 5:12,13].
How many Churches tolerate immorality among their members, ignoring it until it becomes a public spectacle and have spread to taint others in the church?
You think with your emotions and not at all from a spiritual sense or even as we are taught through scripture. Such irrational emotions are what drive people over the edge where they become real threats to other people in our society who are on this earth outside a woman’s womb. And worst of all, it interferes with the spreading of bringing souls to God, so in other words it can be said that your spinning of your wheels and being so off mark is extremely welcoming to the devil himself.
Christians know that they do not dare be involved in the same behaviors as those who are non-believers and those who are living lives apart from God. Why on earth would you try to force those in the world to behave as though they are Christians? If you study Scripture and allowed the Holy Spirit to guide your understanding you would know better.
Civil laws are for the purpose of protecting those who are part of the community who are outside the womb. In Scripture that is exactly why the man’s law required that the child within the womb be treated as property and not a living soul. A baby within the womb is dependent on the mother, the mother ‘s spirit and all within her for his/her survival. The body apart from spirit is dead but with spirit, (where the baby gain the ability to breath on his/her own) because, the baby has received God’s breath and is is made alive and what Scripture refer to as a living soul.
D. Walker,
When you split hairs between spirit and soul and flesh, you are entertaining Greek philosophy. That is what is silly. The word of God is not silly, but reading it incorrectly surely is dangerous. You have to get your hermeneutics right. The traditional Hebraic understanding of body and soul (spirit, aka Ruach or Pneuma - can you read the Biblical languages? It helps when you are trying to make doctrine based on words alone) is that they are all one, all whole. Why else does the Christ ask which is harder, to forgive sins or to heal a paralyzed body? Then he goes about and does BOTH. This is because sin is a sickness as is any form bodily sickness, even death. These were not intended by God when he set creation in motion. Sin entered into the world and brought about death and sickness and all other misery that we experience. This is why we need Christ, because by his redemptive act, sin is forgiven, and when he returns, sin will be done away with for good.
Please read this to understand where I am coming from when it comes to the unity of body and spirit(soul).
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/mosynod/resurrection.txt
Many American Christians put no emphasis on the bodily resurrection at the end of all things. This is plain wrong. A correct reading of the scriptures shows a bodily resurrection will occur, and then judgment.
I cannot see how “You shall not commit murder”, a commandment of God, can be ignored by any Christian. Taking an innocent life is murder. This is what happens in abortion.
Another criticism of American Christianity I have is that so many only are concerned for the soul. Yet, the ministry of Christ was body AND soul. Holistic care for the whole being vs. just saying, “Be well, know Jesus, go to heaven, who cares about your physical circumstances.” Should we forget the words of Christ regarding cups of cold water for the smallest, and “When did we see you hungry, sick, in prison, naked?” This is what scripture truly teaches. Our witness is not just what we say, but what we do. This is active righteousness. This righteousness, our works, is for here, for earth, for our neighbor. This is loving neighbor as self. The body matters to God. The ruach or pneuma or whatever word you want to use to define that eternal part of the pre and finally post-resurrected body, matters to God. Remember the story of the “Good Samaritan.” The one who the religious heirarchy of the day would have rejected outright. He went overboard to show kindness to the beaten, half-dead man on the road. This was what those who supposedly kept God’s law were instructed to do…and they just tiptoed on by because it was inconvenient or polluting to deal with this mess.
How many of us sin like that each day?
The aborted baby is “the least of these.” She cannot speak for herself. Who will seek justice for her? Is she not “knit together in her mother’s womb?” Does God not know her from the time she was in the womb, as the Psalmist says?
You have a very discombobulated view of what the scriptures teach. You must take the whole of scripture and use it to interpret itself.
Finally, your circular logic and tangential arguments are hard to follow and are not conducive to staying on topic. If you were one of my students, I’d give you a C.
Stop judging “Christians like us” if you are not willing to judge that those who commit abortion are sinning, and moreover the lying doctors who say it is not murder.
Kit,
Then I feel that you think the Bible is silly because that is where it is found and if you think I am silly because of it, then that is your God given freedom of choice to think and reject or accept.
But at least back up what you state through the Scriptures if you expect me to take you seriously based on the Word of God and not the Word of man because I do accept Scripture as the inspired word of God.
As a Christian I will always defend God’s Word and if you think that is being judgmental of other Christians, that’s too bad because I will not just sit back and watch other Christians corrupt the Word of God and keep my mouth shut however I don’t see many of you backing up what you state with biblical proof other than the vague one scripture, “Thou Shall Not Kill”, and totally taking out of context, “protect and care for the least among us” ignoring it in its true meaning.
Throwing around the terms (spirit, aka Ruach or Pneuma) does not show me that you have a grasp of the Hebrew meaning of the language and how they where originally used. It only shows that you have heard of these terms. Is that the reason you did not go into any deeper details other than assume that I did not understand the Hebrew meanings?
The term “Ruach” is Hebrew and “Pneuma” is Greek both terms has the same meaning and has been replaced with the term spirit which is Latin. All terms means the Spirit of the Lord or breath of God. I very well understand the original meaning of the word spirit and how it is used and understood through the different languages. But, you don’t quite grasp it as proven by your comment thinking that somehow I may have misunderstood the use of spirit. No I did not, I am using it in its correct original meanings.
Adam and all his decedents spirit fell under the oppression of the soul until they gradually became closely knitted. [Hebrews 4:12] states that the Word of God shall pierce and divide soul and spirit. The dividing is necessary because of sin suppresses the spirit and cause the two to become one. The closer one draws to God and which is done through His Word it begin to divide and the more and more we reflect Christ by our actions. Every man has God’s spirit within although it is darkened (suppressed) by sin and this state causes man unable to hold communion with God.
The soul is that fleshly part of man and one man is completely under the dominion of his flesh (soul) he has no possibility of liberating himself, in such a state, the soul has replaced the spirit’s authority. Everything is done in that person’s life according to the guidance of that person’s own mind. Even in religious matters, with the best of intentions by some everything that they do and is carried out is done by the strength and will of man’s soul, void of the Holy Spirit’s revelation, and this is the state of the “Pro-Life” Movement and the Church in general in America.
Correction to last paragraph:
The soul is that fleshly part of man and [once man] is completely under the dominion of his flesh (soul)…..
One other thing concering soul and spirit, a baies soul and spirit is not closely knit because of the lack of sin in his/her life, they are truly innocent void of any sin. To think that a loving God is not just is what is riduculous, he would never allow one who is innocent to be enternally separated from Him. Christians need to stop wasting their time in that area and go out to those who are truly at risk.
The saddest part of all is, Christians have become one of the most if not most distrusted group on the face of this earth today. Now that is the greatest travesty ever.