Condemning a sinner, and declaring their actions “wrong” will make no difference in it. And, is itself a sin for Christians.

Jesus did not do this.

Professing about another occurs only as proof that you “know” your faith. It is not being it.

The pain and suffering you experience in the face of sin, can not be absolved in frustration and judgement of the sinner.

There is only to be with it. If you can find the strength in your faith to do this, you are available to those who want you most.

God bless you D. Walker.

I find the pro-choice crowd so illogical. They object vehemently to capital punishment on the basis an innocent person could wrongly be condemned and put to death. The argument is valid, however, they will defend a clearly guilty person’s right to life. I am not arguing for or against capital punishment here - just using this to point out the hypocrisy.

On the flip side, the pro-choice crowd has no qualms about sentencing a clearly innocent unborn infant to death for the crime of being inconvenient. There are no Mirdanda rights read(if there were and the infant could respond - you know what they would say!). There is no trial and no jury. A verbal statement of inconvenience is all the evidence needed for condemnation.

There seems little concern for the method of execution. Suctional dismemberment, caustic salt solution, scissors to the skull, or simply diced by a knife are all acceptable techniques. In contrast, If a sentenced convict quivers during an injection of sodium pentathol it is totaly in-humane. One thing is for sure the executioner profits greatly!

The arguments of whether or when the infant has a soul, or isn’t “human” until it breaths, etc. will go on ad nauseum. The reality is our schizophrenic nation has deemed the desires of the mother as the sole measure of whether the infant is human or not. An expectant mother waxes proud of her soon to arrive baby. An inconvenienced pregnant female entertains thoughts of cell clumps, fetuses, tissue, tumors etc. Anyone caught intentionaly or carelessly harming a fetus can and will be charged with a felony and manslaughter if the infant dies. Yet if the mother finds the fetus an inconvenience, she is free to have it executed with the “peoples’” approval. Go figure.

What a tragic practice our evil lawmakers have allowed so that irresponsible people can play.

D. Walker,

You are not responding to the points I have brought up.

First, I addressed, scripturally, that God has given the law , “You shall not commit murder.” Should a Christian commit murder? Should anyone? Should those who are Christian stand by and watch as murder is committed? Does abortion stop a beating heart? If so, it is murder, plain and simple. I am not arguing for the soul of the child, which you seem to think is the only thing that matters, but the body, the life, the flesh, which, according to holy scripture, is important. Do you agree or disagree that God considers the body and its condition on earth to be important?

Second, does God have a plan for the baby who was created? Does God’s plan get interrupted by the sinful actions of human beings who decide when the child lives or dies? Yes or no? IF so, then abortion goes against God’s will.

Third, I never said that Scripture was silly, nor does it need defense. I said that bad interpretation of what is in scripture is silly. Did you or did you not read the link I posted?

Fourth, you said “My only point here is that the world need to witness Christians going about the business of God on this earth as we have been the example and instruction in Scripture according to the Word of God which people rarely witness because those Christians with the loudest voices and most attention aren’t the examples of what we see in Scripture or what Scripture truly teach.”

What is the Christian life to you? Why should the speaking up for “the least of these” not qualify as Christian leadership? What is God’s business on this earth? Are you qualified to set the depth and breadth of what that may be? Go read Job, then!

As for your uses of scripture, yes, in many places (as the link I posted) attests that man is made up of body, spirit, soul - but they are all one united entity. I made the point about Hebrew because I wanted to see if you would pick up on the theme of Nephesh, soul, which is used in the O.T. to frequently refer to the entirety of a person.

Try to engage these questions before firing of new tangents, please.

“Tim,

Aren’t you at least curious why your way, (the way of you “Pro-Lifers”) isn’t reaping any spiritual results?

People such as yourself just want to go about things YOUR WAY and the heck with how Scripture instruct you to do things. To compare abortion to rape is so spiritual wrong. Rape is always commented by a evil person who is a real physical threat to the very society (all women/men and children) that that person resides in. To compare abortion to rape only show how little common sense and most obvious spiritual immaturity of an individual.”

I am beginning to think you have some sort of a lerning disability. I say that not as a slam or insult, but because you routinely miss the points others are trying to make and end up talking about something completely unrelated. This rape verses abortion thing is another fine example. You completely missed the point I made (and after reviewing it I don’t see where my English or ue of logic was flawed). ABC (who decided not to post after getting his hat handed to him) said that there was no point in banning abortions because they will still happen anyway. I asked if we should ban rape (or any other crime, take your pick, breaking and entering, stealing, assault, etc) because they will still happen anyway. I was pointing out the error in his logic that laws stop crimes. They don’t, but they do set up a method of punishing those that do them. They give society a means to stop a perp from doing the crime again. Laws also recognize that which society deems improper.

then you come up with this “spiritual” view of rape and abortion, which had nothing to do with my comments. Not surprising since you always go off on amazing tangents.

Since you brought it up, I don’t see the difference between the two. Both violate an innocent body, do they not? The only grain of truth in your statement is that there are rare occasions where an abortion is performed because the mother’s life is threatened, whereas all rapes are evil. But not counting that rare abortion exception, all abortions are done by people with evil in their heart as well. Abortions, rape, assault, murder, etc are selfish acts of violence made with evil intentions.

You even admit abortion kills a human life, and yet you defend it. Your problem is that you are twisting the Scripture to fit your liberal political views, instead of twisting your politcal views to fit the Word of God. May God have mercy on your soul.

Regarding, “Thou Shall Not Kill”. I answered that one above but here it is again:

Laws are for the purpose of protecting those who are part of the community who are outside the womb. In Scripture that is exactly why the law required that the child within the womb be treated as property and not a living soul. A baby within the womb is dependent on the mother, the mother ‘s spirit and all within her for his/her survival. The body apart from spirit is dead but with spirit, (where the baby gain the ability to breath on his/her own) because, the baby has received God’s breath and is made alive and what Scripture refer to as a living soul.

You asked: Second, does God have a plan for the baby who was created? Does God’s plan get interrupted by the sinful actions of human beings who decide when the child lives or dies? Yes or no? IF so, then abortion goes against God’s will.

Answer: Not only does abortion goes against God’s plan, but so does sex outside wedlock, fatherless children, adultery, and every other sin human beings comment upon the earth. Now do you think that you are going to remove moral sins or any other sin from this earth or our society? The fact is that we live in a fallen world and you must accept that.

By the way, it was “mother of two” who thought that the splitting of soul and spirit was silly, who that remark was referred to.

You asked: What is the Christian life to you? Why should the speaking up for “the least of these” not qualify as Christian leadership? What is God’s business on this earth? Are you qualified to set the depth and breadth of what that may be? Go read Job, then!

Answer: I have certainly answered that one too. I think that you just don’t like what I have stated it didn’t mesh with your thinking so you did not comprehend it when you read it. Don’t you recall that I wrote, that God instructed us to go out and save souls? What good is speaking up for a child if you are not going to take care of that child from a babe into he/she is of age to care for himself and have been raised right? A baby needs more than someone just speaking up for him/her. A baby’s soul even upon death can never be considered a lost soul because that soul will not be lost, it will not be eternally separated from God.

You asked, what is God’s business on this earth? How profoundly strange to ask such a question regarding One who is the Creator of all things, who is Yehovah God. We should be more concerned about what God require of us as ones who desire to be consider His children. We can’t be like Cain and provide to Him things how we choose to do it, but as He has instructed no matter how well intending and zealous one become in the “Pro-Life” Movement.

Then you asked: Are you qualified to set the depth and breadth of what that may be? Go read Job, then! Do you forget that Job was a man of great faith? Do you expect or do you even think that God expect those in the world (non-believers) to have the faith of Job? Did not God ask Satan, “Did you notice my servant Job? And, didn’t God tell Satan; “there is no one on the earth as faithful and good as he is. He worship me and is careful not to do any evil, isn’t this what God himself stated to Satan? Now in view of that, why on earth would you even attempt to apply such a burden on those in the world who are far from God?

The link that you posted does not go into much detail concerning the soul and its usage. The spirit and body are merged in the soul and that forms the organ of our personality. That is why the bible sometimes calls man a soul, as if man has only this element. Genesis 12:5 refer to people as “soul”.

Most Bible scholars point out that there are three different words employed in the Greek to designate “life”, “Bios” which has reference to the means of life or living. “Zoe” which is the highest life, the life of the spirit, and “Psuche” which refers to the animated life of man, his natural life, life of the soul. The Bible use this term when it describes human life.

In the Bible the words “soul” and “soul life” are used the same in the original. In the Old Testament the Hebrew word for soul is nephesh and is used the same for “soul life”. The New Testament constantly used the Greek word psuche for both “soul” and “soul life”.

We know “soul” is not only one of three elements of man but is also man’s life, his natural life. In many places of the Bible, “soul” is translated as “life”.

We are not capable of seeing God’s big picture but I know that there is probably some great plan God already have planned for all the aborted babies. We just don’t know His plans for them. I know that we should concentrate on how He instructed us to go about saving souls because I know that He has account for the souls of babies. I truly trust that God have a plan for everything and the Church is part of that plan and the Church (Christians on this earth) is the one who is failing in our duties because of not doing things the way He has called the Church to go about doing His work.

As “Another” stated above, you must stop and always remember that it is sin for a Christian to judge one who is not a Christian (a sinner who is in the world). But Christians must judge one another, God gave us that authority to do in the form of correctiong and even removing from your fellowship when called for as instructed in Scripture.

Kit,

The above are you answers.

Tim,

Let’s just say if we are going to legislate some moral laws, lets just go back to legislating them all.

Let’s make Crimes of: Adultery, divorce, sex outside wedlock and every other moral wrong. What do you think about that?

But if you pay attention to what is written in the Scriptures, you will notice that God’s Laws were to be applied for God’s children ONLY to follow. If you will recall, there were the Heathens, Pagans etc., in the world also during the entirety of what we have been shown in Scripture.

Throughout history zealous people such as you have made the mistake attempting to judge those in the world, forcing them to behave as your ideal of being God’s children which these ideals have always been pretty warped just as we see in Christians and the Church still today. God never instructed His children to force their beliefs and ways upon anyone and if those who say they are His would do things as He instructed, no doubt, we would see much fruit reaped because of it. It is a shame what you people do to the name of God and His Church.

Aren’t you judging the unborn by allowing them to be slaughtered? You yourself admit that a human life is ended in abortion, yet you decide that they “probably” go straight to heaven and therefore it is somehow OK. You say no one should be forced into anything….abortion forces the unborn children into death. God says thou shall not kill. You support the killing of human life. By supporting abortion you support the violent sinning that leads to the death of the unborn. Anyway you cut it, that blood is just as red on your hands.

I am not forcing people to behave, I am trying to help and protect those that can’t help or protect themselves. The fact that one human’s body (unborn child) is in another’s (the mother) is by God’s design (or nature, depending on one’s viewpoint). Either way, this inconvenient truth doesn’t change the fact that two lives are present. And no one has the right in this country to decide the fate of another. You yourself say forcing beliefs on another is wrong. Abortion forces beliefs on the unborn and results in their death. You don’t see it that way because you have no problem with abortion, which has shown to you to be an irreconcilable conundrum if you are a Christian.

What this all boils down to, again, is that you have warped Scripture to fit around your liberal political ideals. You want to pray for the sinner but let them sin. You don’t worry about the victim, only the one who makes them a victim.

Either be a liberal, or a Christian. You can’t be both on this issue…

D - The part about making adultery, divorce and sex outside of wedlock crimes? Sounds good to me.