Sherry, look at the language you chose to describe feminists “radical secular” and “no use for Christ, the Catholic Church or the sanctity of human life.” Clearly, you aren’t objective about this topic and have an anti-woman agenda yourself. Women have been demonized by the Church since its inception. For heaven’s sake, we were perceived so “unclean” that we had to cover our heads to enter a sanctuary. The Church has a terrible track record when it comes to ministry to women’s needs and concerns. Did you listen to the diatribe the “guest preacher”/priest unleashed against Hilary Clinton at Trinity UCC? It was misogynistic and hateful. I have no use for the female apologists like Sr. Sara Butler. Until and unless women are treated as first class participants in the faith, the Church is no place for me - and many, many others like me, who know how to think for ourselves.

Sherry,

Good post. I’d like to add to the reading list any of Christopher West’s books on John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. West (and John Paul) put the question of the male priesthood into the overall context of male and female physiology and spirituality. I’d highly recommend attending one of his lectures when he’s in town.

Karen,
While your comments seem to be full of misinformation I would like to break down a bit of what you said.
First, “For heaven’s sake, we were perceived so “unclean” that we had to cover our heads to enter a sanctuary.”…. clearly this is untrue, The Ark of the Old Covenant was kept in the veiled Holy of Holies. And at Mass, what is kept veiled until the Offertory? The Chalice — the vessel that holds the Precious Blood! And, between Masses, what is veiled? The Ciborium in the Tabernacle, the vessel which holds the very Body of Christ. These vessels of life are veiled because they are holy!

And who is veiled? Who is the All Holy, the Ark of the New Covenant, the Vessel of the True Life? Our Blessed Lady and Mother Mary — and by wearing the veil, they imitate her and affirm themself as women, as vessels of life.
The question I’d like answered is, “Why would any Catholic woman not want to veil herself?”
We in the Holy Catholic Church understand women to be first class, always and in every way, they are who God chose to carry life, and nurture children.
Men and women have different vocations in life, we were created different, in order to understand true genuine feminine beauty we must understand that men and women are not the same. But we are all equal before God and we all have our role in creating a world of love, and respect for all.

Sherry,

And why should the priesthood be only male? From your perspective, not Sir Butler…are women “unclean”, less inspired, of inferior intelligence???? I am not sure what you base your argument on. To say there were only men at the Last Supper with Jesus when the Eucharist was supposedly instituted, is an error. Who do you think cooked the meal? And to think only men were chosen disciples of Jesus is also incorrect. So please tell me why other than some pope hundreds of years ago decreed it as such, should women not be ordained???

I attended the first Mass of the women recently ordained and from my vantage point, this Mass was just as “valid” as any other Mass. In truth, it really doesn’t matter what you think or what I think. Everyone has an opinion and we all are entitled to our opinion. As a woman who gave 12 years of her life as a nun, I say there is no reason women can’t be ordained. In fact, two were right here in St. Louis. Welcome to the lastest ordained men and women of the St. Louis Catholic community!

The facts speak for themselves. Parish school enrollments are dropping precipitously. Parishes are closing or reorganizing with other low-attendance congregations. In Latin America, the flight from the Church continues in epic proportions. Men and women alike find little relevance or comfort in the Faith and so they leave, some to other faiths and others to no religious affiliation at all. Face the facts, Albert, the “roles” you espouse are archaic and serve little purpose in the twenty-first century. This is why fewer and fewer men answer the call to vocation. Too bad you and Sherry and your fellow defenders fail to see the irony - in a time of shortage, you would rather leave the pulpit vacant than to admit women to the priesthood.

Interesting arguments. Feminist Christine thinks that only women can cook and serve a meal. Karen warns that the Church will soon disappear. Maybe the problem is that we have nuns who publicly question Church doctrine.

Christine, you have no standing to welcome anyone to the Catholic Church. There are no ordained women in the Catholic Church. There never have been and there never will be. Get over it.

The “good old boy” network doesn’t understand the mind of modern Catholic women, and that’s why the church is in deep trouble.

I don’t know enough to make generalizations, but though I had two Catholic parents. Guess who it was who made sure we were sent to Catholic school? Mom.

Who taught us our first prayers? Mom.

Who encouraged the kids to take up the religious life (though none of us did), and made the nun costumes from dish towels? You guessed it.

Who was convinced the clergy and nuns could do no wrong, and we’d better respect them, or expect another grounding/slap on the fanny at home? Yep. Yo momma.

Who was on a first name basis with the saints, and led the kids into faith by example? Uh huh.

Who fried all that fish, cleaned the church, joined the sodality, made sure we dressed up on Sunday, had the parties for First Communion/Confirmation. The lady of the house.

In short, who ruled the theological roost? Well, it wasn’t Dad, even though he’d had the 12 years of indoctrination, too, and to his dying week could recite “Introibo ad altare Dei…Ad deum qui laetificat juventutem meam, at the drop of an et cum spiri tu tuo.

Guess what? What’s causing the current schism in the Church? The fact that, by denying women meaningful spiritual responsibility outside the home, and refusing to validate their aspirations towards the power that flows within us all (heck, we didn’t even have abbeys to be abbesses of, and the convents are a mere shadow of themselves these days so that wasn’t a viable alternative)– the women of my generation abdicated. “It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven.”

And that’s why there is an increasing priest shortage, many works of mercy formerly done by nuns and stay at home moms are going undone, and Mother Church herself, having valued only her sons and disinherited her daughters has to deal with the largely male on male pedophile problem.

They just don’t get it. And that’s why neither my husband nor myself go to church anymore, figuring, if they won’t listen, at least we can vote with feet and empty pocketbook.

Karen,
It seems clear to me that when diocese teach and hold firm to the orthodox traditions of the church we see many good Holy men come forth to serve the church as priest, we also have many holy women come forth to serve as nuns/sisters. The areas of the country that are most devastated by a shortage of priest are the same diocese that have lost the understanding and nature of who a man is and who a woman is and there proper roles in life. But if you don’t believe me look it up on the internet, traditional orthodox diocese of flourishing while almost all liberal diocese have few if any future priests or nuns. As I said don’t believe me look it up.

Albert is right. Just look at the record. The dioceses with large numbers of vocations are those loyal to the magisterium. Imagine that!! Rockford, Colorado Springs, Omaha, Lincoln, the list goes on. Kenrick Seminary is nearly full in St. Louis. With all due respect to our fellow Christians seeking “inclusion” that they feel is avoiding them, there are plenty of empty pews elsewhere. Our Church is not a democracy, a republic, or anything else you want to make it but you can find one which is. Freedom of worship is a great thing, isn’t it?

I am dazzled with dogma. Why would anyone think that Jesus, who so obviously valued love and truth - endeavor not objects - would care so much about one organized religion? Has the Roman Catholic church become an idol made of rules, regulations, policies and procedures? It was just such dogma from organized religion that killed Jesus.

The priesthood has always been men - and not in just the Catholic religion. I don’t know where in the Bible it ever discusses a woman priest. Yes there were women teachers and prophets - read about Anna - but they are not labeled as priests nor were they leaders in the church. I don’t think that the Catholic church is going to change no matter what the feminists think. I don’t think that women are excluded from the church as Karen expressed and it is very sad to see that this debate is actually keeping some women out of the church and away from God. Ironicly my childs grandmother is one of the St. Louis women “ordained” and excommunicated recently. She is a great woman of faith and an excellent teacher. While I don’t necessarily agree that women should be ordained I don’t discredit all the things that I personally know she has done in the name of God and the church either.

For Christine and Karen - Why do you need validation from the Catholic Faith so much? Why do you care if what they preach is Archaic? I thought we had Protestant Faiths to fill the void of the Faithful that disagreed on several terms with the Catholic Faith. I was Baptised Catholic and raised mostly Baptist. I chose to be a Lutheran, though I’m looking for a new faith. But because one faith doesn’t fit my views I don’t rally and cry against it. I look for what suits me, what seems right. The Catholic Faith and its doctrines are controlled by the clergy. They teach that man alone can become a Priest and therefor no woman has been ordained. If you don’t like it, which I do understand, than go elsewhere as most are doing.

Its not our job to make a faith relevant, its our choice to believe what suits us. The only point I’d make is that if someone is undeniably drawn to the Catholic Faith, then they have their own personal issues to overcome if they aren’t willing to accept doctrine. Otherwise, pick the faith you like.

To TMC: Your comments touched me. When I read in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch about the St. Louis “ordinations” I inferred that the training wasn’t very long. Kenrick Seminary training for the priesthood is very long indeed. Do you happen to know what kind of training these women had and for what period of time? I thought it odd that this seemed a non-issue.

It is inconceivable that Jesus Christ would endorse the exclusion of women from the priesthood. His message was always of inclusiveness and against exclusion by organized structure of the church. (http://blogs.pioneerlocal.com/religion). Women must be accepted as full partners in the church.