Here is something to consider. God is responsible for all, as are we. We may say that God created the oils, but did God create the painting. Did he create the oils, or the materials from which we created them? God created the world, and us in it.

Consider God did not create sin. We do, every moment.

The knowledge we possess of what is right and wrong is what creates sin. It does not exist without us. It does not exist in the animal kingdom. Without this knowledge we would always act in what is in the best possible way for ourselves and others. We use this knowledge to glorify ourselves at the expense of others.

Giving up this knowledge will create the space for God’s perfection. Clinging to it will keep the world a place of human righteousness.

Not sure I am following this. If sin is inherently in knowledge (hmm reminds me of the ‘Apple of knowledge’ that Adam and Eve ate) then that still doesn’t get around that God created all the knowledge. Another tangential thought about Godel’s theorem which essentially states that any logic system capable of intelligence will inherently have inconsistencies within it. Sin (or error) is part of our intelligence and it was created that way by God.

We cannot achieve God’s perfection. We are limited in what we can achieve. We can submit.

“The wages of sin (is) a bad reputation and too many friends.” — The rock band The Rainmakers.

I think they pretty much summed it up.

I am a Christian, therefore, I accept the first story in the Bible. In that context:

The knowledge of right and wrong is created by God. Sin is not. The sin is the use of this knowledge by humans.

The question may be, why did God create the knowledge of right and wrong, make it availabe to us, and ask that we not partake in it?

One answer may be that all that is God is available to us. Through choice we have the possibility to glorify God. Without full and complete choice in all that is God there is no glory to God, only obedience.

God did not create sin, we do. It is when we use this knowledge that we turn away from God. God can not turn away from God’s self.

It is fascinating, the mental contortions we must go through to blame sin on God. God did not create sin, nor does God sin. These are simple, yet powerful distinctions that begin with God.

God does not sin. God does not create sin. If we accept and acknowledge God first, then we can not deny we are the source of sin. If we do not, then we have no automomy, and or not in God’s image.

To take the discussion one step further back, is there such a thing as “sin”, as we think of it in the sense of Monotheistic faiths? What is “sin”? Is “sin” simply a bad deed? Or, to fall back on my years in Catholic school (shudder), is inherent in the definition of “sin” the idea that a sinful act separates one from God? Is that definition of “sin” compatable with a infinitely forgiving God? I guess my point is that while humans do “bad” things, do these things necessarily fall under the label of “sin” as defined by the church? Do they actually create a break with God that needs to be healed through Confession (as I was taught), or as Khalid states through further good works?

Having said that, I thought it was an extremely profound statement that Al Lah can be traslated as “The Undefinable”. I have not heard a definition of God that gets closer to what I believe. I plan to use that in the future. Thanks!

In Job one of the oldest books in the Hebrew Scriptures if not the oldest. Job is “without sin and upright.” Satan, Pronouced Sa tan’, states “Is it for nothing that Job is a god-fearing man? “…”put out your hand against all he has, and he will be cursing you to your face.”"And the Lord said to the Satan, See, I give all he has into your hands, only do not put a finger on the man himself” The rest of the story is about faith Job shows in GOD, even in the midst worst castrophies. That is the test of Sin, whether our belief in GOD is strong enough to withstand sin. thanks Khalid.

Sin maybe a culturally charged word. Lets talk of the duality of creation. That there is a duality to many aspects of creation has been observed since ancient times. Chinese talk of the Yin and Yang. But there is no duality in the Creator. When the Qur’an talks of attributes of Allah they are given as absolute attributes, not on a scale. So the thought of Allah commiting sin is meaningless. The Creator cannot be related to human qualities. It is us human beings that experience this graduated scale of qualities with a upper end and a lower end denoting the dualism. Good/Bad, Hot/Cold, Strong/Weak etc.

So what is the purpose of creating a duality in nature? The thought I am offering for inspection is that perhaps it is through observation and experience (and contemplation) of this duality that we climb the steps of spiritual growth.

If we do not accept all sin in the world as ours who then is God?

Does God use sin for a purpose?

Khalid, I saw your post today. Allah, The Creator has created (as you wrote) sin to see who tries to avoid commiting sin (bad deeds). Islam is submission to Allah and to submit is to follow His commands, to do what we are ordered to do and to avoid what He has told us not to do. HE is Merciful and forgives when we turn to HIM with sincerety. On the other hand Quran tells us in details re, good deeds and bad deeds and the consequences. So for Muslims life is a test, test of submission to GOD, as He says in Quran that the HE has created Humans and Jinns to worship HIM alone. SO worship=submission. If I sin and turn to him in true repentance then I have benefited but if I commit sins with no regard then I lose.

This is a hard discussion to have Khalid,given the myriad of different definitions of sin that people collectively have. As for me, God allowed us the capacity of choice. We choose our actions freely. I do not believe in destiny, or fate, or any other laid out path, so to me sin is entirely a human yolk. And it is self-inflicted. Fortunately God is forgiving of our bad choices, and we get countless second chances.

Even in sin though we have an opportunity to learn. We learn about our shortcomings, about God’s everlasting faith in us to do the right thing the next time (or why would God forgive), about ourselves and others, and many other things. Sin may even be a necessary part of our existence, who knows…