Not everything is a commandment but a commandment is not a suggestion. Do not commit adultery is a commandment. As believers God expects us to obey it. Our obedience (extent of our obedieance) is a good measure of our faith. One of our problems is that we turn advice into commandments and make so many commandments that then we do not follow any of them. The actual number of commandments is quite small.

The principle of not judging actions of others (singly or collectively) is a very good one. But it is not an absolute one. My remark concerning consumption is not aimed at opulence. You may choose to live simply, I may not. These are personal choices. I am talking about waste; huge amounts of waste. The fact that we have through a lack of planning vastly increased urban sprawl in the last 75 years (VASTLY) has led to us driving vast distances on a daily basis to take care of the basic functions of life. This is one of the core reasons for our excessive use of energy and that then shapes our national policies and not at all positively. We are far more glued to the shenanigans in Iran than what is happening in other places. If Iran did not have huge reserves of oil our interest is whether their democracy is proceeding positively or not would be miniscule. Even worse, our government has looked the other way when similar or far worse things happened in Nigeria and in Indonesia where oil companies actually gave material support to suppress democratic demonstrations. The difference was that the government in power was abiding by the demands of the oil companies. In Iran (and Venezuela) the government is not accepting the demands of foreign oil companies and we are very interested in the lack of democracy. As populations increased, if cities grew as they had historically it is easy to say that urban sprawl would be less by 75% or more. The dramatic drop in energy consumption would not only make our energy supplies last far longer, make public transportation far more viable, greatly reduce the amount of carbon being put into the atmosphere, we would have never gone to Kuwait in 1990 let alone back in Iraq in 2003 (if 9/11 would have still happened then we would have stayed in Afghanistan and finished the job there rather than move out and now face a far bigger challenge 6 years later) etc. etc. It is waste on a very large scale with very big negative consequeces. Surely not to judge it as such means we are not going to learn from our mistakes and not try to improve.

Khalid,

Here are some truths that my study of Scripture have led me to believe on the subject of way Mankind was created. How does this compare with your faith?t

The Hebrew word for God is Elohim, and it is plural in form. God is identified as the Creator and we see in scripture that the One (God) who is our Creator refers to “OUR” image. God consisted of more than one Being, although only one of them was performing the physical act of creation.

As the Bible continues its revelation of these Beings, it shows them in a family relationship.

Let us make man in our own image according to our likeness. Let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over ALL the earth, and over everything that creeps or moves” (Genesis 1:26 ).

When Adam took his first breath, he became a living being. He did not become an immortal spirit on the same level as God, for Ezekiel 18:4 tells us, “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” When Adam took his first breath, he became a living being. He did not become an immortal spirit on the same level as God, for Ezekiel 18:4 tells us, Sin entered this world through Adam and Eve.

Then God’s plan for Redemption began to shape from that moment.

God had commanded Adam and Eve to reproduce and fill the earth (Gen. 1:28).

Mankind in that time, before the flood, lived long lives. Adam, for example, lived to be 930 years old before he died and most of his descendants before the flood lived about 900 years. If there are no gaps in the genealogies, this means Adam would have been alive following the birth of Lamech, father of Noah, 8 generations later. Although they eventually died, people lived many years before they died. This greatly multiplied the number of people living on earth because, at any one time, there were many generations still living. Mankind were capable of having many children, and large families were common.

The purpose of human life rests in God’s plan of salvation (redemption) and family.

God is continuously creating His own kind (humans). He is reproducing Himself through the many men and women that He is now calling to worship Him and become part of His family, When one study scripture they will notice that everything that God desired center around a family relationship where he desired to be at the center and the head of families.

God is not a closed Trinity, but a growing FAMILY, of which He desires many to become part of and man was created for this purpose, it was because God desires us to be part of His family where this will become a reality at the end of this age.

This whole thread about Sin and Redemption, works and grace, really points out some very significant things about faith and religion.

It is my understanding that there has pretty much been religion as long as there have been people. Virtually ALL religions teach a few common and basic things: That there is a God or Gods, who are above us and who created and operate the universe for their own purposes; That there is a standard of behavior that is expected of people, and that standard is remarkably similar across all social, ethnic, geographical, political, and historical boundaries; And that living to that standard, while difficult, is what is required to get out of this life with a positive result.

What strikes me here is that Christianity, alone in history, has taken the radical step of saying that those good works are NOT what ultimately matters. In Christianity, there is a much more radical concept: That God, for God’s own reasons, seems to want to interact positively with people, and to make that happen, he set up a system whereby we can acknowledge our shortcomings and still be able to have that communication. Or something like that.

In all other religions, a person’s works are tabulated, counted, and measured…and generally found wanting. In Christianity alone, there is the idea that justification is by faith. Which comes back to my earlier comment about translation: There is a radical way to read the texts on justification by faith. That radical reading says that justification is by having the faith OF Christ, rather than the typical reading that says that justification is by faith IN Christ. The second suggests that “I” have to somehow build myself up to the right kind of faith. The first suggests that all I have to do is let myself become a part of the faith community that is held together by HIS faith.

Certainly, I need to live an appropriate life, but I do it in response to the Grace received, not to be approved by God.

hs,

I get it.

Judgement constantly gets collapsed into others things to hide it.

There is nothing wrong in considering, studing, evaluating what is and what may be. measuring, assessing wants, establishing goals, making agreements, holding erach other to account and to our word, etc.

There is nothing wrong in making things work, sharing, fixing what is broken, restoreing, replenshing, conserving, etc.

It is when we say it is wrong, that we make it wrong.

You have chosen one, waste. Is waste wrong? Is waste a sin?

My point: to declare waste wrong, bad, and immoral will make no difference in waste. Those who you declare responsible for waste, and the sin of waste, or the immorality of waste, or who are bad for wasteing, will resist your judgment of them until they die, defending thelmselves against your judgement, and blaming you for it instead.

What you push, will push back.

There is no inspiration for those you wish to touch, in declaring them guilty of the sin of waste. Your intent can not be hidden in generalizations, or declarations of doing so for the good of all. The intent is delivered, you/we are wrong for something.

We can make this a theological issue. We can also simply declare that as a way of making a difference in the world, it does not work to judge.

Any ground taken in being effective and efficient (disappearing waste) will be made by those who inspire us with a possibility that they have created for themselves. That inspires them.

The impact of sin is only realized within one’s self. It is the outcome of being authentic with one’s self. It is the outcome of insight. Insight is available when we give up judgement and blame, and only then are we free to look within.

Judgement is not the source of insight. The opposite is its effect.

Judgement, or blame is only accepted under force. It does not create a change of heart. It creates only more of the same. It holds sin in place.

Why? We do not know what it looks like to be free of right and wrong as a way of viewng the world we live in. We desire to be right more than to be with each other, or, to make a difference in the world.

Every thing in the world is possible to be another way, and knowing the the right and wrong of it will make no difference in it. It is a booby prize.

I believe it was Robert Ingersoll who wrote: “In nature there is neither right nor wrong, there are only consequences”

What if I lived that way? Understanding and accepting that everything I say and do will have a consequence, and using that concept to define WHAT I say and do.

hs,

You state:

What strikes me here is that Christianity, alone in history, has taken the radical step of saying that those good works are NOT what ultimately matters.

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It is imporatant to recognized that Scripture, the Bible (Christianity) teach that both GOOD WORKS and FAITH matters equally and that one cannot exist without the other in your worship of God/Christ.

Tim is right about different definitions of sin (Page 1). I think of sin as the state of being separated from the will of God. With that definition, the question becomes “Why did the God of love create a state of being that separates us from Him?”. It is reasonable to assume God wants to know what we will do with sin. Will we follow Jesus or will we pretend sin does not exist? For a Christian, at least, that may be the best answer. So we can follow Jesus.

Christians learn through Scripture that it is sin that separates us from God.

Christians learn what sin is through conscience and Scripture. The reason why a loving God created created a state that allows us to be separated from Him which is caused by being sinful is, because we were created with a FREE-WILL, (the capability to make choices).

Scripture teach us also that we must make the first move towards God and that He wants us to make the choice to worship Him.

I am here. I know not why. Left between creating good or evil — and separating myself from my own humanity — why would I not choose the good?