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04.11.2008 2:34 am

“Why would Muslims want to live in America? Why would not Muslim live in Saudi Arabia or some other Muslim country?”

Special to the Post-Dispatch
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This title reflects the first of 2 good questions posed by one of the readers (who named his/her Centrist) of my first blog posting about finding my Muslim voice. The part I am going to address in this post is quotes below (emphasis in the quote is mine).

“I saw a woman in a West County grocery store the other day with traditional Muslim dress, not a burka, but the only part showing were her eyes. That is fine, I have no objections with her choice.”

“… Our culture is so different in terms of outward sexuality and homosexuality that is so contradictory to the Muslim faith, that I don’t understand why they would not prefer to live in Saudi Arabia or some other Muslim country where they can live more easily which in the norms of their culture and religion.

I have a problem with Muslims coming here and not wishing to assimilate and try to get calls to prayer and footbaths etc. which kind of cross the line of seperation [sic] of church and state in our country.

My first question is, why don’t Muslims just live in Muslim countries and why do they choose to live in America or England where the culture is do different from what their religion espouses? Many of us fear that we will one day be forced to live under Sharia law such as Saudi Arabia or Iran if the Muslims take over our country.”

The reader’s second questions is equally interesting and is about Muslims and why they vote Democrat. Whether this assumption is right or wrong, that question will have to wait for another posting.

But for now, let us tackle the first question. There are a lot of points to cover so I will use almost a point format to cover the different issues raised in the comment:

  • The Virgin MaryNiqab (Arabic name for attire that covers a womens face) is Not the traditional Muslim dress. It is a dress that some traditional Muslim women wear (although is is admittedly ‘mandatory’ in some societies, especially Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia which are hardly the beacons of democracy, freedom or individuality). We are not all traditional in that sense. Many practicing Muslims women with strong devotion to Islam do NOT wear niqab or burqa (burka is a word derived from a Farsi root). Some of them wear traditional western attire, and some wear a more conservative attire with long sleeves, below knee outfit with or without a head cover (Hijab in Arabic). The latter group would look more or less like many orthodox Jewish women, or catholic nuns (before the change in their dress code in Vatican II). They wear the typical attire that the Virgin Mary, the most revered woman in Islam, is portrayed in.
  • And why should it be assumed that a Muslim has somewhere else to go and live. This statement is based, assuming best of intentions, on ignorance. Half of the American Muslims are ‘real’ Americans, born and raised here to American parents that may have been Muslims, Christians, Jews or atheists. Some are Black, White, Hispanic or of Middle Eastern and Indian ancestry. But some are of German, Irish or Chinese ancestry amongst many other possibilities. They did not chose to come to America. God created them here. They have no where else to go to, Muslim country or otherwise. And even if they do have another country to go to, why should they? Do we expect a Muslim born in this country to a Muslim family, or who has converted to Islam as an Adult, to leave America and look for another homeland just for the dress code?
  • A homeland is more than place with a dress code that I like. The culture that defines someone by how they dress is a very shallow culture, and our American culture, mine and yours, is not shallow. That is why many people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, come to America. Moreover most of us, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, disagree with the society at large on one or more intellectually or practically pivotal issues. Take for example abortion, same sex marriage, the war in Iraq, affirmative action, universal health care, or even home schooling. Is there anyone out there who is willing to leave there homeland if the law of the land is opposite to their choice for a way of life? Should I assume that the reader Centrist would have to go and live in Denmark if his/her dress code is more on the nudist side; or to somewhere else where abortion is still criminalize if they were anti-abortion? People are not defined by one issue, neither should a homeland, especially by something as trivial as dress code.
  • Centrist also has a problem with Muslims coming here and not wishing to assimilate and try to get calls to prayer and footbaths etc‘. Without belaboring the point, I will restate that half of the American Muslims have not come here - they were born here.
  • Assimilation deserves some comment. Every time I here it in this context it reminds me of the ‘Borg hives’ on Star Trek. The goal was “assimilating all species by incorporating their knowledge and technology into one Borg super collective”. None of us would ever desire to be part of that super powerful society for a simple reason: individuals lost their uniqueness, that is ‘the quality of being one of a kind’, i.e., different in some ways. Assimilation that does not retain the individuals identity is not only evil; it is doomed to failure in the long run.
  • And, on the legal side of this, if a municipality accommodates some Muslim communities and issues a permit for a mosque to have the call to prayer, that is the municipality’s right (although I am not aware of any that did this in Missouri). If the council of elders is democratically elected, and feels comfortable giving their OK to that, then that is the stance they would like to face voters with in the next election. And that is called democracy in action.
  • I am not even sure the reader Centrist is using that term “separation of church and state” correctly. Church bells ring every Sunday, and that is not violating the separation of church and state. The first amendment of the US Constitution states that “… Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. For a private business to make a free-will decision to establish footbaths for their Muslim clients, or employees, because the business owners feel morally good about being inclusive, or because it is good for their business, is a far cry from violating what the constitution enshrined in the first amendment. Any constitutional lawyer amongst the readers to chip in??

Iranian women in MashhadOn a rather personally note, I am not a supporter of a dress code that covers the face. A big part of an individual’s identity is in the face. I am even sure I would not know how to communicate with someone covering their face. That is not just from the security point of view, but for many other practical reasons. The face communicates a lot more than words. My early medical training was in a Egypt at a time when some medical student started wearing niqab. The dean of medical school was decisive about it. If you wear a niqab, you were not allowed to get on the medical school campus. I am not aware of any women students that left medical school because of that. Niqab is not mandatory according to the very vast majority of Muslim scholars. It is actually forbidden during the most sacred of all Muslim events, Pilgrimage to the Holy Mosque in Mecca. It is still a very uncommon practice outside Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia were is it a dominant cultural habit to many, not a religious tradition. And therefore, many women stop wearing it when they are out of those countries.

Iranian women in Hijab playing competitive soccerEven in Iran, it is becoming less and less popular. For passports, drivers license, security Ids, and in courts of law the face must always show. If one woman wants to wear it in a West County grocery store, and the store does not have a problem with it, who am I to stop them?

Do I want wearing Niqab or burqa to be the law of the land for women here? NO.

The bottom line is this: this is a society where the rule of the law is king. If it is legal no one should expect others to change just to please the rest of us. But if Centrist’s argument is that this is a Christian Nation, and that only Christians should decide how it is run, then that is a violation of the first amendment. And that can be a topic for another post.

Khaled

[Note: The reader Centrist, in a second comment expressed deep unhappiness and disappointment that I did not respond right away to the comment. Since I am not a full time blogger or a journalist, and I am a full time professional, I will rarely be able to respond right away to comments (except to the most simple of questions). Other readers are welcome to participated in the discussion and have a dialog go on, but I will not oblige myself to respond in a particular time frame.Blogging is NOT about instant response. That is called instant messaging. I would rather take my time posting something that I put some thought into, than to response in a haste with a half-cooked one and a half sentences. Other bloggers may have the talent to do that and produce something good. This blogger does not. Sorry if anyone is disappointed. Khaled]

15 comments

Comments are closed.

Thank you, Khaled. To many in this country, the ONLY view of Islam that they have is from the evening news. Or worse, explanations made by hostile political or religious figures. It’s an uphill battle, to be sure. On the subject of dress, I’ll share something my mother told me about our time in Lahore. She says she understood the cultural imperatives, and as long as she followed them, she never had a problem. At the time, it meant that if she wanted to go to the Bazaar (an amazing place, by the way), it meant that she had to have her arms and head covered, but covering the face was not required. As long as she dressed in that way, there were never problems. So, she wore “Shalvar” (a long cotton tunic and baggy cotton trousers), and a shawl over her head (really pretty comfortable, no?). She never felt terribly comfortable in a sari, by the way. Her cultural upbringing in the 1930’s and 40’s in middle America meant you didn’t expose your midriff.

— hs
5:44 am April 11th, 2008

I want to add my thanks. You made excellent points, but the most helpful thing for me was hearing your personal views…as a Muslim, yes, but as Khaled first and foremost. I was so worried about the complications that might arise from being seen/read/heard as “the only Episcopalian” on this blog, but I have to laugh at myself now in realizing how trivial that burden is compared to the weight your postings carry. We all have that sense of multiple identities, I think…as individuals, as Americans, as inheritors of a certain tradition and as members of a particular faith community. I am very appreciative that you are willing to share your story with us, as often as you are reasonably able.

— Pamela Dolan
9:08 am April 11th, 2008

Khaled,
I could not agree with you more. I think too many americans have forgotten that we live in a melting pot of cultures, traditions, political views and ethnicity among many other things. That’s what makes America a great place to live and raise a family. If Muslim women cover because of religious beliefs and practices, more power to them. Don’t people see that in this predominantly Christian nation, muslim women are covering the way [as you said it] Mother Mary covered. Would you not agree that your women are covering for the same reasons as commanded by God as did Mother Mary? Do the so called larger non-muslim population of America not realize that your God is the same God that Jesus prayed to [as did Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam and so many more]?

The bottom line is…..even in a country as far advanced as this, being an American, I am ashamed to say that we need to learn more about all the different types of people that make up America. Islam is still misunderstood. People need to start seeing that Islam is a religion of peace but yes..it does have its share of bad apples as does any other religion. That does not make the religion or the vast majority of its followers evil.

I commend you on your efforts to help educate the American public by your blogs. I look forward to reading more. Best wishes.

— AA
9:11 am April 11th, 2008

I just thought of one more thing: I was utterly fascinated by your reference to the Virgin Mary. I have never heard her discussed in the context of Islam before! If you ever want to do a post about that or just point us in the direction of where to go for more information, I would find that extremely interesting.

When I was in Divinity School at Harvard and going through a stage of being very defensive about being a practicing Catholic in such an environment, I remember my surprise and delight to discover that one of my most liberal professors was also a Baptist with an avowed devotion to the Virgin Mary! I could not have made up something more wonderful and eye-opening.

— Pamela Dolan
9:13 am April 11th, 2008

Your post is needed and welcomed. I hope that the media will give more of this kind of information to the public.

With regards to dress, you remind me again of some experiences. While teaching the young Muslim (I mentioned in my blog: What my Muslim friends teach me) I also had the opportunity to teach the women in the home. We became friends. I told them I thought their dress was beautiful. They gave me a dress (not sure I remember what they called it). They insisted I put in on. They giggled and were delighted. The clothing felt very comfortable and I felt beautiful. They even put eye make up on me and told me I was pretty. How fun that was. I wore the outfit home and I went to the grocery store! Another time, in a college speech class, a Muslim women gave a speech about her dress. She said that the dress was not to degrade women, but to lift them up and protect their modesty. I thought that was counter-intuitive to what most people think about the traditional clothing of Muslims.

— Dana King
9:32 am April 11th, 2008

Hey Khaled!
A few years ago, I was lucky to work with a woman from Dubai who was just as anxious to answer questions about her faith and culture as she was frightened to wear traditional dress in public. You see, she had the unfortunate experience of passing through the Midwest on her way to New England and had been publically jeered shortly after 911 (which some Midwesterners were so happy to co-op as “their” tragedy) and was of the opinion that all Americans held these primitive views. I was thrilled to inform her that she was lucky enough to land in Vermont, where this country began, where patriotism is equated with tolerance and where she could feel free to wear the garments that she considered synonymous with female strength and her expression of admiration for her elders. I found nothing inconsistant with her values and ours and told her so. She shortly gave the concept a chance, with much satisfaction on her part and the gain of knowledge on our part. Having lived in the slave states, however, I did warn her to be careful South of Ohio. The fact of the matter is that this country’s greatness does not stem from it’s exclusion, but from it’s inclusion. I wish more folks down here believed that, but it is heartening to read the wonderful comments left on your behalf.
Hope springs, sir, don’t ever believe it doesn’t, even in Missouri.

— Keith
9:11 pm April 11th, 2008

[SSH is a good friend of mine who lived in the US for many years and is now back in his homeland in the Arab world. He sent me these comments using my personal email and asked me to post them for him. Khaled]

Khalid,
* When discussing why Muslims don’t leave the US you pointed out correctly that for some their homeland is the US, however, some Muslims leave their homelands towards the west for several reasons, chief among those reasons is seeking a better economic future; i.e., Muslims are interested in having a better life for them and their children. This is driven by the weak economies of the Muslim countries and the reason for that are beyond the discussion at hand, but this makes a point about how most Muslim and non-Muslim immigrants have the same motivation. Another group of Muslims leave their homeland due to oppression of thought and under appreciation of their contributions, this is the group that actually enrich life in the US or wherever they may choose to live because they are like roses, they die if they do not get sunlight. Their adopted homelands are closer to the true character of Islam than the places they originate from. A small example could illustrate this point, the prevalence of deceit in the US is so much lower than most Muslim countries as evidenced by the paper work needed in any transaction; the working assumption in the Muslim country is that you are lying and you need to prove your honesty, whereas in the US the working assumption is that you are telling the truth and require basic documentation. (I am trying to get my son a national ID card and the paperwork is enormous just to prove he is a citizen of his own native land).
* As for the woman in west county, I personally do not approve of that attire and I agreed totally with the British school that fired a school teacher for refusing to take off her niqab at the church school (See http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1164267228445&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout and http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/22/news/brits.php).
Having said that, I think that the US is much stronger when they have someone who tests the limits of the freedoms protected by law and is tolerated and accepted. I have always told my wife that as long as you can wear the hijab and travel freely in St. Louis, this country will be a strong country. Period. This is a sign of cherished diversity that makes the US the best place to live. I love my freedom and as long as I do not impose on someone else, I am entitled to practice it; and this is why I argue against the niqab, because it could be construed as a security risk. You illustration with Sittina Maryam (Our Lady Mary) is a great example and more a contemporary example can be seen in the Amish.
* Mary is good topic that will allow you to bring forward how Christianity and Islam are very similar, in fact, my understanding is that the only point of debate between Muslims and Christians is about how Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) is not the son of god and rest is minor differences.
I think this way too long, but thanks again for taking the time to do this.
yours always,
SSH

— Khaled Hamid
12:41 am April 12th, 2008

Why be a Muslim want to live in the United States?…. Why be a Catholic in Iraq or in China?

Many convert to a religion because they find in it a spiritual home apart from a geographic one. Their nationality may have nothing to do with their faith. Their homes, families, friends, language and jobs may tie them to an area where they were born or have lived for many years. A Muslim may originally have been a Southern Baptist living in Alabama and then converted.

— Rudy Schwarz
10:39 am April 12th, 2008

So, it appears the reason that many Moslems emigrate to the US is for the same reasons many others have emigrated over the last 300 years: To have the opportunity to worship as they choose in peace.

— hs
5:39 pm April 12th, 2008

Khaled, thanks for the long response. Wow. Sorry if I “attacked” you for not responding, it’s just that many PD bloggers don’t and I should not have lumped you in with them. I am sure you are a very busy man and your response really was very timely. Please don’t misunderstand that I am upset in any way with women wearing nijabs or whatever in this country. As a woman, I have days when I wish I could throw one on instead of having to look so fashionably West Country. I am not at all offended by Muslim dress. My thought is that I think that I would feel uncomfortable in a Muslim country dressing as an obvious American. I know that westerners have to adapt to certain cultural norms when they do visit those countries.

I also think that Muslims and Christians share many fundamental believes, so I am not sure that I think this is strickly a Christian country as many religions share many beliefs. I know that as a Christian, however, I would not want to live in a Muslim country. I would feel very uncomfortable. I think because of 9-11, many people are uncomfortable with some Muslims, but I don’t think that everyone thinks that every Muslim is a suicide bomber either.

Which leads to my third question. I heard the other day that there is a Muslim caliphate that says all Christians and Jews must be exterminated. Can you comment on whether this is true or not. Thanks - and take as much time as you like in responding.

— A CENTRIST
8:36 pm April 12th, 2008

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