Enlightening and Informative, Khaled. You’re not, however, going to convince any of the diehard fundamentalists here.

I consider it this way: Abraham had two sons, and was the first to clearly worship One God. Of the many lessons he passed on to his sons, was the history changing lesson that there was One God, not many gods. Those sons carried that message forward, through the generations to today.

The NAME that God is given does not matter. One can linguistically see the obvious similarities between the Hebrew YHWH (more or less YahWeh) and the Arabic Allah. Further the descriptive parallels between the I AM of Moses and the Allah you describe above as being self-existent are very obvious.

Thanks HS for your comment. I am, though, not aiming at the diehard fundamentalists on either side. I think they are not only a minority, but also the lost case.
The audience for most of us who hope for coexistence and mutual respect are those on the fence, limited from joining the moderates by the lack of access to simple basic facts. There is a lot of those, and they are the only reason we should continue to try.

Well-stated Khaled. It is amazing how some “men of God” out there curse God via Arabic (by cursing Allah).

My husband learned Arabic many years ago and now works at a Sam’s Club. The other workers have sometimes derided the use of the name Allah and think it shows Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. My husband has told them unequivocally that the name Allah MEANS God…to their great astonishment. He has also gone on to give them a little bit of Biblical history. Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac is the father of Judaism and Ishmael is the father of Islam. So Christianity, Judaism and Islam have quite a bit in common.

I consider myself a diehard fundamentalist Christian who can co-exist even with ones who worship a different God than me. In fact, it seems to me many times that other Christians and myself are worshipping a different God.

HS (#!) and D. Walker (#3):
Should we try to define what we mean by die-hard fundamentalists? I am afraid we may be using it with different things in mind.

Also, D Walker: I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence: “In fact, it seems to me many times that other Christians and myself are worshiping a different God.” Can you please clarify for me what you mean?

Thanks so much for this column! I recently tried to convince a (Pentacostal) friend of this fact, but he refused to believe me. I was planning to do a bit of research later today to provide proof. You’ve done it for me! Thanks!

It is amazing how can an informed man , spreads untrue facts. It is very easy for anyone to look up Islam, to find out that this talk about a moon God, and the three daughters is a total fabrication. How can this go on in a well read place like North America.

The god of Islam is not the God of Christianity or Judaism. By the very nature of Allah and God as written in the the Old Testament, New Testament and Quran and studied through the centuries within their respective theologies, there is a difference. Islam’s god is not the same God that Christians worship. Language has nothing to do with it.

If the god of Islam and the God of Christianity are the same, there wouldn’t be such a difference in the nature and aspects of diety that exist between the two religions. The core concept of monotheism in and of itself is not enough to base a claim that the two religions worship the same diety. Nor is the assertion that language and word choice are evidence that two religions that differ on several very key hermunetical points in fact worship the same diety. What one believes does not necessarily make something true. Belief -no matter how sincere and honest- and fact don’t always coincide.

Allah was known and was used in Arabia pre-Islam. Does that mean that the pagans who worshipped him prior to Mohammad were worshipping the real god, much less the same one as the Christians or Jews? It only proves that he was known as a spiritual being, which can be something other than the one diety.

Consider the Quran’s use of the word Isa for Jesus. Why not Yasu? Yasu is more linguistically correct? Is it because there was a misunderstanding or purposeful misrepresentation of Jesus by comparing him to Esau?

While in and of itself, the use of a name may not matter, it is evident in scripture that God’s names have power and authority. They can describe Him sometimes. While the importance of “allah” in and of itself as a name is minimal when trying to find similarities to two mutually distinctive faiths, the name/word is important in worship and praise.

Christianity and Islam have plenty to seperate them, specifically as concerns a fundamental understanding of monotheism, that is, the nature of that singular God. You and I do not worship the same diety.

Two people can live in what they call a house, yet how the two are constructed and what they have within them may well be drastically different, yet that term, “house” would apply to both.

Islam is “intrasigent” in its belief and concept of monotheism, whereas Christianity’s understanding is quite a bit different. How then can we be worshipping the same diety?

And I wear my fundamentalism with honor as I believe in absolutes, there there is such a thing as knowable truth. Thus, I believe that some things are wrong or are in error.

As Dr. Robert Morey stated, ” The sloppy thinking that would ignore the essential differences which divide world religions is an insult to the uniqueness of world religions”

My concerns with Islam stem not from its teachings, but the very source of those teachings, which I highly suspect.

I, too, found D.Walkers’ comment about how different Christians seem to be worshiping a different God interesting. I’ve also found that it rings true for me.

Here’s my thought on the statement: Ask any group of Christians what they believe is the function or purpose of scripture. Or, perhaps, ask them to share their perspective on what the fundamental message of scripture is. Or, ask them to pick a few favorite Bible verses and defend their choice.

The answers to those questions will say a lot about how they see or experience the God they worship.

If allah is merely a generic term for god, then would Muslims have a problem using Yahweh? Yahweh is the revered name for God among Jews, so much so that they will only spell it G-d out of respect.

Would Muslims have a problem saying “There is no God but Yahweh, and Jesus is His Son”?

“And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YAHWEH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial name unto all generations. ” Exodus 3:15

To Logus (#11): “Yahweh” is certainly NOT the revered name for G-d among Jews. Jews believe that G-d’s name was not to be spoken except under very specific circumstances. Further, they believe that no one now living knows how to say G-d’s name any more.

The Hebrew word for “God” is El. (You can see how close Hebrew and Arabic are, as languages: “El” and “Allah” are similar.)

The four Hebrew letters that are a place-holder for G-d’s name, YHVH, are not pronounced. Instead, the Hebrew word for “the Lord” is said instead.

Most Jews are bemused by Christian attempts to pronounce G-d’s unpronounceable name as Yahweh or Jehovah or whatever. Some Jews are insulted. But, believe me, it is NOT something Jews do.

I stand corrected Becky. I am aware of El as the Hebrew word for God. I am reminded of Beth-El, House of God. And I realize that linguistically Arabic and Hebrew have some common Semitic roots. I recalled the use of Adonai in scripture as I was reading your post, as well as Elohim.

My argument still stands though, that a shared or similar name (via linguistic roots or usage) in and of itself does not confirm unanimity of belief or worship rather in the same diety.

If the Christians, and especially the Jews of ancient Arabia felt that they were worshipping the same diety as Mohammad preached, then surely they would have joined him more readily. Nor, would there be passages within the Quran that conflict with each other concerning the faith and beliefs of Christians and Jews. There are many ayat proclaiming that the Christians and Jews are fellow believers, but there are also verses berating or even condemning them for not following, either intentionally or not. If one is practicing or believing that which is corrupted, a half-truth, then it is not truth at all, no matter how fervently believed, and in that, the person(s) are not worshipping the same diety as others, even if there is some shared roots, similarities or concieved equality.

And lastly, if Allah is just another term for God, then why would you still use it when you speak or write in context of your beliefs? Why not just use the word ‘God’? After all, it’s a generic term, and you’re writing in English, not Arabic.

And while wiki isn’t always the best source, I found it quite enlightening… reiterating some material I had already come across.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

That there is a similarity between the spellings or semantics of the English word God and Arabic il illah in no way links the entity that is described in the Bible and the Koran.

The Koran’s Allah is ultimately the descendent of the Sin, the chief pagan moon god , represented as a crescent , of the Babylonian city of Ur. The same place where Abram was from.

This crescent god went through many evolutions before finding its way to Mecca as the chief pagan god in the Kabbah with 359 other pagan gods.

The crescent worship was also usually associated with worship of the morning star, Venus.. and thus the Crescent and star symbology of Islam. Above every mosque you will see a crescent moon.

Of course Muslims today do not acknowledge this heritage of Allah, instead they believe Mohemmed’s lie that Mohemmed was visited by the angel of the God of the Bible.

Islam is a monotheistic pagan religion of war. All moon god religions in the Middle East were aggressive , war religions.

Islam, as a religion, has almost no resemblance to the religions established by the Bible.. instead Islam merely continuied the preexisting pagan Arab rituals.

The Bible has one clear reference to the crescent / morning star partnership. In Isaiah 14:12, in a chapter that is describing the future destruction of Satan’s empire on Earth and the antichrist:

14:12 Look how you have fallen from the sky,
O shining one, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the ground,
O conqueror of the nations!

In the Hebrew, O shining one is “Helel ” and Son of the Dawn is “ben-shakhar” . In Arabic Helel is the root for crescent,. And Son of the Dawn is recognized as being Venus.

By the way , the King James english translation uses the word Lucifer for “Helel ben shakhar”

Draw your own conclusions.

So what was the name for god used by the people who became the Israel before they were Israel?

I recommend, “Islam: A Short History” by Karen Armstrong as a good introduction/overview.

http://www.amazon.com/Islam-History-Modern-Library-Chronicles/dp/081296618X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209555069&sr=8-1

It is clear to me from conversations with Muslim friends, some reading in the Quran, and the majority of scholarship (Christian or secular) that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God. Jesus tells us in John’s gospel that his Fathers house has many rooms. Any religion or sect that presumes to understand exactly how God will fill those rooms presumes too much.

For me the heart of my relationship with Christ is keep God’s command to love my neighbor as myself. I find following that commandment trying enough let alone attempting to discern with certitude how the living God will judge others.

An thought provoking topic and a timely one.

–Andrew

The universalism that is being taught, accepted and spread within the religious community is astounding.

Andrew, what about John 14:6 “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ”

Denominations within a religion is one thing, as the differences between them are often over minutia that don’t matter. The differences that occur between major religions however, such as Islam and Christianity, are too great to come to a conclusion that they both worship the same diety.

The only way that an individual of any faith can believe that the diety they are worshipping is the same or just as acceptable a path as another is by accepting a philosophical foundation of universalism which would state that all are saved. That line of thought says that Christianity works for me, and I believe it, and Islam doesn’t work for me, however that religion may work for someone else, they believe it and I think they’ll get to God just the same as me.

That is contradictory to the major foundational doctrines and tenets of many of the world religions, specifically Christianity.

Islam denies the Trinity, the deity of Christ and the Crucifixion. Three primary and foundational doctrines of Christianity that define the Christian understanding and belief in a monotheistic God.

Is God a mathmatical singularity as Islam points out with unambiguity or is it a mystery, a Trinitarian, single God, God - three in one all the same?

No Christian or Muslim can endorse or fully accept the religion of another without denying its own opposite, distinctive claims and doctrines.

Pluralism doesn’t always work and isn’t always a good thing.

So, what is this? The new trinity - God, Allah and Yahweh? We christians see God as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We see God as being alive, the entity resposible for the f orce of endeavor. As Khalad mentions, Allah creates. But, Allah (God) through his Son also provides us instruction on how to relate to God, ourselves and each other. This instruction is the endeavor of love. Jesus, the Son of God, taught us to consider God our father. Consequently, there have been many sons and daughters of God who have provided us with further examples of what constitutes a loving relationship with God. So, we see God, not only in Jesus but in every human being. Because love of God requires us to endeavor to be true to Him, ourselves and each other we see the living God as being the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Ghost - John 16:12.

Modern America owes much to this Spirit of Truth. Our endeavors in science and technology comes from recognizing that dogma is the enemy of truth and that progress is impossible without skepticism. Our knowledge is imperfect. Accordingly, to be true to God, ourselves and each other, we must not make religion our God, Allah, Yahweh.

In the New Testament , God has given us a means to test the divinity claims of dieties and spirits. Note there are two tests that I isolated and labelled A and B

1 John 2:21 I have not written to you that you do not know the truth, but that you do know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but

A - the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

This one is the antichrist:

B - the person who denies the Father and the Son.

Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also.

[A] is the denial of the Messiahship of Jesus

[B] is the denial of Divinity of Jesus

And in this context “antichrist” is being used in a general sense.

Islam fails both tests:

[A : Messiahship of Jesus] - Koran 4:157
“(That they said in boast) . . . We killed the Christ, Jesus, son of Mary, who was an apostle
of God; but they neither killed nor crucified him, though it so appeared to them. Those who
disagree in the matter are only lost in doubt. They have no knowledge about it other than
conjecture, for surely they did not kill him.”

By denying that Jesus died as the lamb, that neccessary work of the Messiah is denied by islam

[B : Divinity of Jesus] Koran 5:72-73
“They are surely infidels who say: “God is the Christ, son of Mary.” But the Christ had only
said: “O Children of Israel, worship God who is my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever associates
a compeer with God, will have Paradise denied to him by God, and his abode shall be Hell;
and the sinners will have none to help them. Disbelievers are they surely who say: “God is the
third of the Trinity”

To my Muslim friends… I accept that you view my religion as flawed and I feel similiary about yours; however, I carry no hatred or aminosity towards Muslims and all people of good intentions of any or no faith.

Our concepts of God are necessarily flawed and imperfect: because WE are flawed and imperfect. Here’s where my Calvinist upbringing helps me: The doctrine of election says that God chooses, God calls, God justifies, and God saves. It is not for me to sit on my judgment seat and decide who God should call or choose.

It’s not for me to really worry a lot about whether God prefers the Christian over the Moslem. That’s God’s problem to figure out. I see much to admire in the Moslems that I know and have known. Those who actually try to live up to the standard of the Five Pillars are worthy of respect and honor. Just as the Christian who tries to live up to the standard of the Good Samaritan or the standard suggested in the parable of the sheep and the goats.

So then, hs, is there such a thing as truth, and can it be knowable and definable?

I believe that there is such a thing as truth, that it can be known and can be defined, even within the finite constructs and understanding of our minds.

As an aside, I tend towards Arminianism as the Calvinistic concept of God seems to fly quite in the face of a loving God who bestowed free-will upon His creation with the express intent of having a relationship with us.

“It’s not for me to really worry a lot about whether God prefers the Christian over the Moslem.” Clue me in here because what you’re saying, as well as what I’m infering from your previous posts smells heavily of universalism. Furthermore, concerning your comments on the deeds and actions of Muslims and Christians alike… are you equating works as the primary factor for one to find and get to God? If so, you’re turning the whole New Testament on its ear.

An agnostic can be the greatest person we’ve ever known. Doesn’t mean squat in the here-after. Works are great, and we’re urged to do them, nay commanded as part and parcel of our faith, as an expression and expansion of it. However, faith is the key. Without faith, those works are dead and in effect, useless.

Eph. 2:8-10, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

Just looking for some clarification hs, because you’re coming across more like Shelby Spong than anything else.

Logus, your response deserves a thoughtful response. Stay tuned

Logus, I do not consider myself a universalist. What I’m open to is the idea that I might be wrong. In my spiritual journey of nearly 50 years I’ve had the following experiences that color my world:

I was raised by parents who were convinced sufficiently of their calling that they spent two years overseas in the mission field, as teaching missionaries at Forman Christian College in Lahore, Pakistan. (Did anyone here know that Musharraf was educated by christian missionaries as a youth, and one of his most recent actions was to return Forman to the American church and has asked that it be reopened as a mission institution?) By the way, I would never recommend to anyone that they take young children into the mission field.

I made my personal profession of faith at the age of 13.

As a college student, I wound up in an independent, evangelical fundamentalist church, and I stayed there for 13 years. I left that congregation and returned to the church of my youth (Presbyterian) about 18 years ago. I’ve also spent many years dealing with the aftermath of addiction in my life.

These experiences taught me a fundamental lesson: That God is fundamentally unknowable, that my brain is too small to grasp more than a fraction of the wisdom of God. Each person has their own experience to share, and all deserve to be heard, and none deserve to be belittled for the form or practice of their faith. The fastest way to tick me off in a discussion of religion and faith is to stand there and tell me that there is only one way to believe, and it happens to be YOUR way. You see, as I said, I’m willing to consider that I might have it all wrong. That doesn’t make me any less a believer. I happen to think it puts me in pretty good company. I happen to believe that the Pauline statement that begins, “for I am persuaded that neither life, nor death, nor angels, nor principalities, or height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate me from the Love of God in Christ….” is one of the most profound faith statements ever put to paper. I also read the psalms and see the pain and agony of many of them, when the various writers actually saw themselves in their true light.

I’ve recently been considering the verses in Isaiah 6, where the prophet was called. He saw the Lord, high and lifted up. What was his response: he fell to his face and proclaimed his unworthyness. I suggest that when any of us has a real encounter with God, that is the only response that even kind of works. When the Moslem says that the Angel appeared to Mohammed and commanded him to write, who am I to say that is a false statement? I’m forced to acknowledge that God certainly could have done exactly that.

I read the comment by “Logus” more than once, trying to understand what he /she is saying, It is still not clear. How is it difficult to beleive that both Christain, Muslims, and Jews as well as others, worship the same God. I think we -all- worship the God who created us all. It does not matter what is your religion, skin color, or language, we still were created by God.
The details in how we worship, what led us to beleive in that, does not matter. That is why I believe that it is the same God, how you reach this is a different story.
Those of us who make this claim, never said they are all one thing. Different methods, or ways, but at the end reach the same conlusion.

I am a “universalist” in the sense that it is clear the Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same God. I agree with Logus that works without faith are meaningless, primarily because faith for me is the act of surrender of my will to God’s will in how I live relate to my neighbors and the creation.

I believe in Christ as the incarnation of God and am willing to argue that point for sometime with my cousins in the other Abrahamic traditions. However, that faith does not give me the right to cast judgment on those who do not share it. Nor do I think the New Testament represents some kind of “contract” that limits the actions God or how he chooses to act in the lives of others.

Instead it is the New Covenant . . . a new relationship between God and his Creation founded on the suffering, witness, and choices made by Christ, God in human form. The primary message of the Gospels is one of reconciliation, not judgment.

I do believe in universal truth . . . I DO NOT agree that imperfect humanity understands what that is or even how to apply it. If we could figure it out for ourselves, then what would the point be the point of Christ?

What is important for me is to treat others the way Christ did, a goal I can never achieve; have faith in Christ crucified; do my best to surrender to God’s will in my relationships to do what is right.

Proclaiming the Good News is not a crusade . . . it is an invitation to a glorious homecoming feast to which all are welcome. I’ll leave the follow-up work to those who know best . . . God and the Holy Spirit.

–Andrew

hs, thanks for your clarification. You state that God is fundamentally unknowable. If that’s the case, then all we are working on is guesses and hopes based on nothing concrete. I would think that many of the early Church fathers would disagree. I’m also intrigued by your statement that perhaps Gabriel did speak to Mohammad and transmit the Quran to him. If God did do that, there’d be an apparent flow and strong meshing of the Quran and the Bible. But there are stark contrasts to the point of the nature of God being shown to be vastly different from the NT to the Quran. How can that logically make sense in your understanding of God? Certainly God must be logically consistent, otherwise His very nature would be questionable. And as for judging, I’m only reading the Bible, ma’am. If anyone is doing the judging, it’s Christ. John 14:6.

For KY, worshipping God, the Creator is to be lauded, but if we do not have an understanding of even the basic nature of God, if our understanding of God is contrary to His nature, then we are not actually worshipping Him, we are worshipping something else. The Baal worshippers of the OT believed that they were worshipping god (a god). Were they actually worshipping God? We believe not, and the Bible lays out the claim and evidence to disprove Baal.

Kaled,

Sorry that it has taken me so long to respond. I’ve had to tend to some other matters and have not had any free time to read and respond to blogs these last couple days.

My definition of a fundamentalist Christian is one who is a true follower of Christ, which could be called a die-hard Christian. Any Christian is one who is to follow rigid adherence to biblical principles as disclosed in the New Testament of the Holy Scriptures. Christians are not to compromise any of the teachings of Christ in order to please others in this world.

That said, Christianity is not intolerant, violent, nor self-serving as can be seen by studying the teachings of Jesus Christ in Scripture. In fact, it is the most perfect and honorable form of existence possible for a mankind and society.

My stating that it seems to me many times that other Christians and myself are worshiping a different God is due to the fact that most Christians and even the churches in America are like the Christians of the church of Laodicea that Jesus spoke about in the book of Revelations at 3:14-22.

Christianity as practiced throughout history and even practiced today cannot be found anywhere in scripture as teachings of Jesus, but are flat out demonic in nature such as the Crusaders, Nazi’s, KKK, etc….

Many today do not want to acknowledge the dark evil history of past leaders claiming to be followers of Christ. A very violent history that was not Christianity even though proclaimed to be. The violators were always of White European ancestry, never of any other nationality or race and the actions of these were and is a until this very day an total abomination against God and the name of Christ. But, so called Christians who really are not Christians at all refuse to acknowledge the murder in their own hearts, but instead always focusing on other cultures and religions and pointing out the murder in their hearts.

Then there is what Scripture describes as lukewarm people within the church, and this is what I feel is the state of the majority of Christians in America churches today with the exception of just your plain outright hypocrites.
Jesus says in Revelation 3:16, 17, “Because you are lukewarm — neither hot nor cold — I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.”

A lukewarm person is one who is hot on the outside, but cold on the inside. It’s the kind of person who knows all the rules and regulations, who can be seen on a regular basis in the church, but still keeps God at arm’s length. The Laodicean is one who is so busy attempting to appear good on the outside, but doesn’t have time or the true desire to spend time with God by reading in His Word and in prayer. These types refuse to acknowledge and believe that it doesn’t matter how long they have had their name on the church books or how many good deeds they have performed or how much money they have placed into the church treasury, they still are not a Christian, because a Christian is one who knows Jesus as his personal Savior and Friend.

One who find themselves in that position, is lukewarm according to Christian scripture. God would prefer that one be completely cold instead because the one who is cold can be brought more easily to understand his need. The tragedy of the lukewarm church member is that although he is wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked, HE DOESN’T KNOW IT. That’s what makes his condition so serious.

The other type of individuals we see here in America are the hypocrites, like the Scribes and the Pharisees during Jesus day. Jesus said to them:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness”.
The central point of His rebuke was that they were like whitewashed tombs. The looked good on the outside, but the inside was a dark evil mess. And Jesus called them hypocrites because of this.
The whitewashed tombs that Jesus spoke of were white because the Jewish people would go out every year to the cemeteries, on their memorial day, and paint the tombs of the prophets. They would say, “Isn’t it a terrible thing what our fathers did to these lovely prophets?”
They were referring to how their ancestors murdered all the prophets of the past because they could not bear hearing the truth about their wicked ways from the prophets of God. These very same ones who were saying that their ancestors had done such a terrible thing by killing God’s prophets were the very same ones and types who headed back to Jerusalem to plot a scheme to murder Jesus, (the crucifixion). These same ones were responsible for the unjust, unfair and illegal arrest and illegal five trials of Jesus. The unjust trials that these ones plotted against Jesus were absolutely illegal trials where, the laws of that day governing criminal trials were blatantly and openly ignored by these very ones. These same type of injustices still occur today in our courts by law enforcement, attorneys, judges and other court and judicial officials who claim that they are Christians, but are really the children of the devil. You can read about the illegal and unjust trials of Jesus at the below sites.

http://www.leroychristianchurch.org/greatest_trial.pdf

http://ecclesia.org/truth/trial-jesus.html

We have those proclaiming to be Christians who believe in war and the invasion of other countries, very un-Christian. We have Christians who believe in the death penalty ignoring God’s grace and the total faith and trust that we are to place in Him in deciding who deserves death.

I find that the hearts of today’s Christians in most American churches, and most of those who proclaim to be Christians are much like the Scribes and the Pharisees of Jesus day. Their hearts are cold, intolerable and deeply evil full of schemes and plots. They say that they are Christians, but they are so blind that they cannot not see that they can’t possibly be based on the condition of their hearts.

The God/Christ that I worship does not allow one to practice injustices, selfishness, ——or even to keep silent concerning these things because when one even think about such evil, the God that I worship corrects one through their conscience, convicting their hearts and will bringing them into repentance to turn their hearts around to follow His will and do the right thing. We do not see much of this in America is why I say that it seems that I worship a different God/Christ than other Christians I see in America.

To worship God/Christ one much worship Him in truth as disclosed in scripture or it is not Christianity or Christ who one is following, but the devil.

With Christianity it is a very serious matter to get ones life right in God’s sight and to turn away from sin and wrong doing because no one knows when God will say enough and harden ones heart where you will be condemned, no longer be given the opportunity to repent and be saved by God’s grace.

Because those people who refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, He has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do. They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and malice. They gossip and speak evil of one another; they are hateful to God, insolent, proud, and boastful; they think of more ways to do evil; they disobey their parents; they have no conscience; they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or pity for others. They know that God’s law says that people who live this way deserve death. Yet, not only do they continue to do these things, but they even approve of others who do them. [Romans 1:28-32].

[Revelation 22:12-17]
“Listen!” says Jesus. “I am coming soon! I will bring my rewards with me, to give to each one according to what he has done. I am first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Happy are those who wash their robes clean and so have the right to eat the fruit from the tree of life and go through the gates into the city. (Note: The Kingdom of God). But outside the city (Note: Hell), are the perverts and those who practice magic, the immoral and the murderers, those who worship idols and those who are liars both in words and deeds. I, Jesus have sent my angel to announce these things to you in the churches. I am descended from the family of David; I am the bright morning star.” The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come!” Come whoever is thirsty; accept the water of life as a gift, whoever wants it.

Lastly, the God that I worship is a very forgiving God who would like to see everyone turn away from their sins and wrong doings, put them away and follow after Him in truth as disclosed in scripture and not make-up their own ideas of Him as it pleases them to believe that He is in order to live a life that selfishly pleases themselves and not God. This type of worshiping is idolatry and is what I see most often practiced by those claiming to be Christians here in America.

We have all been guilty of wrong doings even those of us who are Christians, but those of us who are truly Christians cannot live with any wrong doing or guilt in our conscience. True Christians are brought into repentance by God (the Holy Spirit) and must correct our wrongs because we do not wish to live separated from God, which is the state one is in until one repent and correct all their wrongs against God and others. Nor can those who truly believe in and follow Christ stand by and watch and be quiet and watch injustices done to others no matter who that person’s race, religion or sexual morality. True Christians understand what a Christians’s duty is and that is to live by love, righteousness and charity first and foremost. The Christian church is to go beyond their walls and preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God to come and the teachings of Christ to live by to make it into God’s Kingdom, not put all that wasteful energy in this pro-life movement and other moral causes that we are witnessing happening by Christian organizations. If the church would only follow the true teachings of Christ, all these other things would happen naturally at a miraculous rate because the way of Jesus teachings is what truly change hearts not what we are witnessing happening today by main stream/stat Revelation 22:12-17 us quo Christian churches.

Logus, when I state that God is fundamentally unknowable, I happen to believe I’m in pretty good company. Basic christian theology always begins with these statements about God: God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Sovereign. I, on the other hand, am none of those things. What do you think Paul is saying when, in I Cor 13, he states that ‘we see in a mirror dimly..”? I believe it is the height of arrogance to proclaim that I know what God will do or not do, or bless or not bless, particularly when it lines up with my personal preferences.

A minor example: 20 years or so ago, I heard a thundering sermon that proclaimed that it was IMPOSSIBLE for God to bless and anoint rock music. That the only contemporary music that could possibly be Godly was old fashioned Gospel. Huh?

If God is small enough to fit within my thinking, then whatever it is, it’s (by definition) not GOD.

By the way, I would suggest there are a lot more parallels between the Quran and the Old testament writings than there are conflicts.

hs, He’s fundamentally unknowable, yet we know that he’s omniscient, etc?! Obviously we can and do know some things about Him! When I state that we can know God fundamentally, I’m not talking conclusively. That’d be theologically impossible and asinine on my part.

Parellels don’t mean equality, much less viability as a reliable source upon which we should study. An atheist can say some truthful things, doesn’t make their overall beliefs correct just because we agree on one or two areas, or even a host of issues.