I love it. I first saw it on catholicvote.org. Let’s pray that Obama doesn’t sign F.O.C.A.

You know, I remember as a kid how people said that you never know what someone can become, but if you abort them you will never find out. Obama is a perfect example of that. You’d think a man who’s mother was smart enough not to kill him in utero would not be for killing a baby even after it’s left the birth canal. When he says he hasn’t forgotten where he came from….well, he has.

Beautiful. I hope that this shows even one person how evil abortion is.

The commercial is prolife but it is also pro social Darwinism. Is it better to subject youth to difficult situations to toughen them up? I wonder where Barack would be without his grandmother?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelyn_Dunham#Raising_Barack_Obama

Pro social Darwinism? I don’t agree. What it says is that you can’t judge a person by his situation. I know plenty of idiots born to good families and given every opportunity that have completely wasted it. All life is precious and all life should be respected, born and unborn.

The money would have been spent more wisely with a message instructing its audience that the Kingdom of God is Coming and that people must turn away from SIN and their hearts towards Christ/God.

Furthermore, the commercial failed to mention that Obama’s single mother and her parents had the ability and realization to raise that precious little baby away from a society that would oppress him and treat him as worthless and less than human to a place where he would be raised around by brown skin people who did not suffer from the effects of a oppressive society.

Thanks for this post. Great thoughts.

Clearly that isn’t really footage from the actual Obama’s ultrasound. Hence, the commercial is manipulative, and I doubt Obama himself would appreciate his “likeness” use in this manner anyway.

I think the pro-life movement has enough going for it that they don’t have to reduce themselves to petty emotional manipulation. If abortion is wrong, then say it’s wrong for these following, rational reasons a, b, and c. Don’t resort to the implication that as a minority, Obama may likely have been aborted before he became president. Don’t put fake baby headstones in front of your churches. Appeal to people’s sensibilities.

I have a son, and I can’t imagine choosing for him not to have been born. But whenever I see these stupid manipulative commercials, or the fake baby cemetaries in front of churches, or the bumper stickers, I swing toward the pro-choice crowd.

Pro-lifers: you’re not bringing anyone to your side with these shenanigans. Appeal to reason.

We show respect for life…

By not murdering our fellow man.

By not taking the life of an unborn.

By ridding our hearts of any hate towards our fellowman.

By giving up all unclean habits, smoking etc..

By showing respect for our own bodies and not sinning against it, etc. (sex outside wedlock).

The only and most motivating factor that I have ever witness in one willing to give up any of these things was due to such a respect, love and appreciation for God/Christ and a new found hope in Christ. So flashing this video to this audience is next to worthless because one who has not been convicted in any of these areas, heart is not healthy by being set straight with God. Many can see the disrespect of life by the act of abortions but are blind to the same disrespect of it by smoking etc.

Inspiring, clear, love, and infinite possibility!

Free of righteousness, judgment, and blame?

If those who produced this have any thoughts of judgment, righteousness, calling out a sinner, or they are manipulating a message for the benefit of themselves or Obama because of each’s position on abortion it taints the message and keeps it in the realm of a debate and the cycle continues.

Was Obama’s image and story used with his agreement, or was Obama used to make a point?

If Obama agrees with the message and supports it, it works. If it was produced and run without his agreement, it fails at making a difference in the world by succumbing to the temptation to covertly condemn him as an example, and mostly will reinforce those who already agree with its message.

Is the integrity in place around this commercial?

If their plan is to ask forgiveness after, before asking permission before, it is in the realm of a ploy and not very powerful, just clever.

Sigh, so close.
Integrity and the message are difficult to align.

He’s a public figure, so his image can be used without permission.

D, I know you love this guy, but he has a huge flaw in his abortion position. By your words, we must think he could not be a christian since the motivation to prevent taking the life of the unborn is not within him. (remember I said your words, not mine - don’t accuse me of thinking I know his heart…again)

We govern ourselves. Despite living in a fallen world we try to make the best of it and pass laws that protect the innocent. You would have all of these, accept where they offend your liberalism. Your view on abortion is abhorant yet you stand behind the those who would fund such acts as a means of poverty control in third world countries. Liberalism before all.

Dave, if your opinion is swayed because of a bumper sticker or a mock graveyard then I submit you really haven’t bothered thinking about the matter. Or worse, you are pro-choice and have to use frivolous garbage like that to justify how you feel.

One of the main arguments that the abortion crowd has always used is the idea that no child should have to be born into those types of situations. That ad is a direct response to that line of thought. If it is emotional manipulation then it is no different than what the abortionists have done, yet I haven’t seen you rip them for it.

That commercial does appeal to reason. It reminds you that no one can predict what the future may hold for anyone, and that having a chance is better than no chance at all.

To D Walker: I hear what you are saying, but at the same time this message may put into someone’s mind an idea that wasn’t there before. Ideas lead to thought which leads to new beginnings. If this leads people to do right how can that be a bad thing?

Wow, what a powerful commercial. I am very impressed.

I am very hard pressed to follow the point about the commercial endorsing social darwinism. The commerical does not imply that children are only valuable if they grow up to be president.

Meanwhile, the folks grousing that the commercial is “manipulative” really cannot mean to be taken seriously. All commercials are emotionally manipulative. That is the nature of the beast; 30 seconds of t.v. time is not long enough to make a nuanced and rational argument. That is why the pro-abortion protesters rallying in front of the supreme court on days when abortion cases are being heard make it a point to show up with slogans and coat hangers - so that their 15 seconds of air-time on the news will pack the maximum emotionally manipulative punch. Both sides use these tactics because they work, and to complain that the other side is meeting fire with fire is simply too fatuous to be regarded as a substantive objection.

There are fine and worthy rational arguments against abortion, and many wise and learned people have made those arguments. If Dave really wishes simply to consider this matter in a dispassionate and logical fashion, there is nothing about this commercial that would stop him from so doing. There are frivolous and superficial arguments being made by both sides and the only appropriate response from the one distressed by such superficiality is to ignore it. To take one side to task for it while ignoring the other’s equally vapid tactics is just mauvaise foi.

I, too, want the message behind the commercial to succeed, but the ends do not justify the means.

Fighting fire with fire is not the Christian way. Being tempted into a debate about choice is a pitfall.

That same commercial can be made about any number of “successful” people who “agree” with its message. It was a shot at Obama, and only sooths the righteous and fuels the fire.

My view.

Obama’s stated position on abortion and his skills would predict that he agrees with the message, but it makes no change in his position on abortion.

Mike,

I can’t say what is one’s heart for certain unless God shows me this which I know that HE has at times concerning situations for my and other’s protection.

I can’t say for certain what is in Pres. Obama’s heart concerning his stand on abortions but according to what I see and his explanations concerning this issue I can understand why and how Pres. Obama feel that he must take such a stand concerning abortions. Think about it, you are calling for a extremely mature Christian to be placed in office, in fact such a person would never in a million years would take such a position, no one is so mature in Christ would god allow to be placed in such a office.

It has not been that many years ago that Pres. Obama accepted Christ into his life and all know that being a Christian is a growing process. Obama is the right kind of man and at the right time in his life I believe to hold the highest office in our nation because in spite of any flaws, I see him as being a man truly after God’s heart just as Abraham and David were. As Christians it is very hard for me to understand your hearts and why your lack of knowledge concerning the growing process of becoming more like Christ in our lives. I Again, I do not believe that anyone who was a mature Christian would want to be in government but I can see one with very good intentional and love for this country and people wanting to. We must remember also that Pres. Obama is not parading as a Christian Teacher or Leader, he is a man growing in the ways of Christ. I myself am struggling with how involved I as a Christian am to become intertwined with the politics of this world and only know that God is attempting to show me some things such as how disheartening it is to see things such as the kind of behaviors displayed by Christian groups as this one who is behind this ad. Lastly, by own words I have never stated anyone was not a Christian.

We can show and tell people God’s word so that they can hear them but only God can convict their hearts concerning an area where they are in error and I truly trust that God will in HIS own timing to all those whose hearts HE sees as being the right kind of hearts.

That’s the key, the world must HEAR God’s Word in order for their hearts to be convicted by HIM and is why commercials such as this one makes me so sad and at other times so frustrated with Christians. Being frustration and inpatient with people are some of the flaws in me that I must work on and get under control and are the very flaws in Moses that kept him from entering into the Promise Land.

“Obama’s stated position on abortion and his skills would predict that he agrees with the message, but it makes no change in his position on abortion”

That makes no sense whatsoever Anon…

D Walker, I guess we will just have to disagree. I don’t know if Obama has accepted Christ into his heart or not, and I don’t know how far he has gone on that journey. But at what point in that journey is it OK to support a bill that allows for a baby to exit the birth canal and still be aborted? I guess I better check the travel brochure because I missed that stop…

I don’t agree that an extremely mature Christian cannot be involved in politics. And you may not like that commercial, but you can’t say that it won’t help someone hear the Word or realize the errors of their ways. Change has to start somewhere, and you and I cannot say for sure how God works to connect with the lost. Maybe it is this commercial…

“I see him as being a man truly after God’s heart just as Abraham and David were.”

Thanks for that. It made my day. Funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time.

Cased dismissed. You obviously are so taken with the oprah celebrity factor that you’re not thinking clearly.

He’s the right guy at the right time if the time is now for social progressivism in it’s most secular form. No man after God’s own heart would try to take us there.

I, too, want the message behind the commercial to succeed, but the ends do not justify the means.

Fighting fire with fire is not the Christian way. Being tempted into a debate about choice is a pitfall.

Bah. There is nothing whatever to object to in the means being employed here. Perhaps meeting “fire” (as it were) with “fire” is not the done thing in your variety of Christianity, but it is perfectly fine as far as we Catholics are concerned. Anyone who thinks that the Church is supposed to be above manipulative appeals to the emotions should re-read the Psalms sometime.

Mike and Tim,

The one thing that I do know is that God has left instructions for those whose intentions are to win hearts over to God, they can be found within (The Bible) which I choose to believe over anything that you are any other person or group says. I cannot find any instruction in scripture where methods such as this commercial would be acceptable to God due to the fact that He has given us clear instruction on the matter.

What this commercial does remind me of is the example of Cain and Able where God had made known what HE required as a sacrifice to HIM, but where in spite of that Cain still decided to do it his own way, thinking his way was good enough and would be pleasing to God but, it was not pleasing to God or good enough. The first time that I read this story in Genesis I thought it was so mean of God, not knowing God’s ways or understanding any of them at the time.

When we take on this attitude we are allowing sin to crouch at our doors and even though you may think that you are doing something good it is not how God instructed and causes sin to be lurking at your doors. Sin wants to rule us and by not doing as God instructs is sin and we are warned that we must overcome this attitude of doing things our way and so many are so concerned about Obama being pleasing to God but has failed to see if they themselves are pleasing and acceptable to God.

God instructs us to pray to HIM for our leaders and country. Do this and if it is God’s will to cease abortions, God’s will be done. But Christians must get their hearts right so that God will intercede. Why Christians are failing to see that the problem is with them is beyond me because the problems really are not due to all the sinners in the world but Christians not doing what they are suppose to be doing.

God instructs us at 1Timothy 2:1-7: First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, request and thanksgivings be offered to God for all people; for kings and all others who are in authority that we may live a quiet and peaceful life with all reverence towards God and with proper conduct. This is good and it pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to know the truth. For there is one God and there is one who brings God and human beings together, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself to redeem the whole human race. That was the proof at the right time that God wants everyone to be saved and that is why I was sent as an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles, to proclaim the message of faith and truth. I am not lying; I am telling the truth a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.

It sounds to me that God understood that men in high offices and in authority usually do not know Him and is showing us that even in such a case Christians can intercede as instructed above.

Tim,

Sorry if I am not clear. Obama’s position on abortion is nuanced to be, he is committed to “minimizing” it, (may even not choose it for himself,) but will not ban it.

Sympathetic, but unmoved.

GrzeszDeL,

manipulate - 1. to manage or influence skillfully, esp. in an unfair manner: to manipulate people’s feelings.

GrzeszDeL,

Sorry I entered my post before I was complete.

Full self expression, powerful appeals and requests, and authentic sharing are all aspects of glorifing God, and we are moved and touched by them.

That aspect of the commercial moved me.

Manipulating the obvious to make a point or appeal to emotions are temptations that distract from free will. People who are manipulated into place are not being moved by the spirit.

That aspect of the commercial did not move me.

Thanks for the explanation D, that was very clearly outlined. I don’t agree with you on several things, but I don’t see the point in carrying this on much further. Thanks for your responses.

Another, I see nothing unfair or even unfactual in that commercial. As for Obama, “sympathetic” and planning to sign F.O.C.A. are not even remotely related.

I had a great comment all written, and it vanished. Oh well, maybe God is telling me it wasn’t all that great.

One question for the pro-life crowd: Is it possible for a person to be pro-choice, anti-abortion, and Christian? I consider myself all three. And, I have a feeling, I’m not alone. I just happen to believe in free will and that making abortion illegal won’t end it, it will just drive it underground.

As an aside, I’m participating in an online class and discussion hosted by Princeton Seminary called “A Year with the Institutes”, a celebration of the 500th anniversary of the birth of John Calvin by reading the Institutes. All you Baptists out there…don’t forget, you’re Calvinists too. Interesting stuff so far. The section we’re in right now is all about the authority of Scripture, and answers the questions about what scripture is, and where does it’s authority come from.

People who are manipulated into place are not being moved by the spirit.

Two brief responses:

1) I have no idea how you might purport to know that this is true.
2) Even if we grant the truth of this claim arguendo, it is not clear to me that it matters. This commercial was not intended to help the Spirit. It was intended to convince voters (and thus politicians) to restrict abortion. To critique it on the basis that it is not moving people by the Spirit seems rather beside the point.

I just happen to believe in free will and that making abortion illegal won’t end it, it will just drive it underground.

For what little it is worth, I agree with the truth of this claim. This is not, however, a particularly compelling argument in favor of the legality of abortion, to my mind. After all, the legal prohibition against rape has not brought an end to rape. I like to think, however, that there are fewer rapes committed than would be the case were rape not illegal.

In other words, to say that laws against abortion would not end abortion, while true, rather misses the point of what a law is supposed to accomplish. We enact criminal laws because the acts in question are wrong and should be treated as such, not because we labor under the illusion that the mere existence of a law will, by itself, bring the prohibited conduct to an end.

Ok, then answer this one: Let’s say that abortion is made illegal. Who is the criminal? The doctor who performs it? The woman who has it? Both? And what should the punishment be?

hs, yes, both, murder is murder…give them the same treatment that WE CURRENTLY give a guy who takes the life of a fetus against the mother’s will. If that doesn’t make sense then logic has been left behind.

Oh, and nuanced seems to be a nice way to say two-faced.

I guess he should take a nuanced look at torture - it’s a bad thing, but let’s not ban it. Instead let’s take steps to minimize it; let’s educate the world not to commit horrible acts that would require our torture. That’s the real work of ending this horrible act. In many years a torture ban won’t be necessary because the “need” for torture will be gone.

Now that view would make the man look stupid. His nonsensical double speak on abortion has the same effect.

A law against abortion is not just important because it would outlaw abortion, it is important because it would recognize the rights of that child in utero. They would finally be protected by the law as the Constitution and biology demand. Would that mean that abortions would end? No unfortunately, but that is no reason not to do it.

hs, I know people who tell me that they are personally pro-life but are not against abortion as a choice to others. That’s no different than saying you are personally against any other crime (murder, rape, assault, you name it) but think it’s OK as a choice for others. It’s a blatant double standard, a cop-out. It is gutless and pathetic if you ask me.

You can’t hold the above feeling and be a Christian. It’s impossible.

So our great moral leader is allowing OUR tax money to support overseas abortion. I for one want my money back - I don’t want it going to that cause.

Not the act of one who wants fewer abortions, but wishes to see it used as a tool around the world.

Your hope has been misplaced in this man.

You guys that voted for him can take solace in the fact that he really doesn’t agree with abortion, just wants to make sure everybody can get one.

Tim, I can only say that I’m glad that you don’t get to determine whether I have a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ, and whether my confession of faith is sufficient for my salvation.

Mike, since you brought it up, where is the Christian justification for torture?

Let’s say that abortion is made illegal. Who is the criminal? The doctor who performs it? The woman who has it? Both?

Yes, both. Abortion is just another form of murder, no different from matricide or regicide or uxoricide. In the same way that we convict both the man who hires the assassin and the assassin himself, we should convict both the persons who procure the abortion and the abortionist himself. It might be that there are mitigating circumstances which should reduce the sentence we assign to those procuring the abortion in this or that case, but all voluntary parties to the act are doing wrong.

Mike, since you brought it up, where is the Christian justification for torture?

Mike can, of course, speak for himself, but unless I am mistaken, I take it that he means that there is no Christian justification for torture; just as there is no Christian justification for abortion. Both are wrong, and thus both should be illegal (although, unfortunately, in our dazed and confused society both are legally permissible).

Don’t get me wrong. I was making a point by drawing an absurd parellel to torture. I’m not justifying torture, I’m pointing out Obama’s inconsistencies - and the inconsistencies of those who want to join Oprah’s obama love club.

He takes says he wants to get rid of torture, so he takes action on it. He says he wants to reduce abortion so he promotes it as a social engineering tool around the world. If he would double speak on torture the way he does on abortion we would all call him a fool.

And I think Tim’s saying that you are drawing your position from outside of christianity. Christianity cannot support that view. People who are christians can hold non-christian views. The words “you can’t be a christian and hold ___ view” don’t mean you’re not a christian if you hold that view. Just that you can’t justify the view as a christian.

Let me clearly spell out my abortion opinion.

First, if an abortion is being done for convenience or birth control, then it should be forbidden. This means, if the mother is unwilling or unable to raise the child due to marital issues, financial issues, job issues, or whatever, then there is a solution for her. It’s called adoption or birth control before the fact.

This will eliminate the vast majority of abortions.

Second, for the remainder of the cases, things like rape, incest, medical issues involving the mother, and the rare non-survivable birth defects, I would hold that the decision to abort or not is best left to the adults directly involved. These are tragic situations, and I am not wise enough to prescribe for someone else what their action must be.

You can’t arrive at the rape and incest exclustions through logic.

I know it sounds heartless, but if we are saying a living innocent baby is involved then what’s the real greater good? Intent of the parents has nothing to do with the fact that this is a human being.

I’d be happy to hold off legislation about this tiny minority of abortions if the first category were dealt with first - the overwhelmeing 95% or so if I remember correctly.

GrzeszDeL,

I thought some more about what it is that bothers me about the ad. There are 2 debates in this thread, the ad and whether it “works,” and abortion and how to make a difference in it.

In the secular world we have laws and we put them in place with agreement. In that context, as a seclular debate the ad works and is very effective and wins on points, big time.

People who break these agreements are to be dealt with by the system in the world as created by humans. Jesus accepts this as the ways of the world and advises us to obey the laws of our communities.

For those who are believers in this world, the power of one’s faith is to have this conversation and agreement within the context of your “own” faith.

Collapsing the ways of the faithful into the ways of the world is a temptation. Taking the message to mean making the laws of the world answer to the laws of God corrupts them both. This is the example of the Pharisees and the Taliban.

It is the nature of humans to hide there own accountability within this collapse. This is where hypocrisy resides. They place themselves on the “right” side of the “law” for the sake of righteousness. It becomes the business of forcing people to abide the law for righteousness sake and they miss the opportunity to accept it as love. Bigger game, bigger stakes!

Calling out a sinner falls into this temptation, and doing it publically is no different than the woman being accused and called to be stoned by the mob in front of Jesus.

We forget these simple lessons in our rush to righteousness.

Have the conversation, call for laws banning abortion and embryonic stem cell research, share the impact our faith has on this conversation. Do not, in your own eyes, make the other person a sinner. This is God’s business.

Another important point, having these conversations within this forum is different. This is within the church community where people enter with the expectation that these issues are discussed, ideas and thoughts are revealed, and sharing our doubts and emotions are given space This is a safe place for this conversation.

“Oh, and nuanced seems to be a nice way to say two-faced.”

It is, and I do it for my own benefit.

It is better for me to declare my view of his distinctions regarding life as subtle. It allows me to share my frustration with what appears to be his ambiguity.

I could call him a liar and be done with him. Jesus asks that I do not do that, and one of the desciples asks that I do it only if it threatens my own faith.

Obama’s position on abortion is no temptation for me. I am clear where I stand on it.

BRILLIANTLY done!