Tim,

Sorry if I am not clear. Obama’s position on abortion is nuanced to be, he is committed to “minimizing” it, (may even not choose it for himself,) but will not ban it.

Sympathetic, but unmoved.

GrzeszDeL,

manipulate - 1. to manage or influence skillfully, esp. in an unfair manner: to manipulate people’s feelings.

GrzeszDeL,

Sorry I entered my post before I was complete.

Full self expression, powerful appeals and requests, and authentic sharing are all aspects of glorifing God, and we are moved and touched by them.

That aspect of the commercial moved me.

Manipulating the obvious to make a point or appeal to emotions are temptations that distract from free will. People who are manipulated into place are not being moved by the spirit.

That aspect of the commercial did not move me.

Thanks for the explanation D, that was very clearly outlined. I don’t agree with you on several things, but I don’t see the point in carrying this on much further. Thanks for your responses.

Another, I see nothing unfair or even unfactual in that commercial. As for Obama, “sympathetic” and planning to sign F.O.C.A. are not even remotely related.

I had a great comment all written, and it vanished. Oh well, maybe God is telling me it wasn’t all that great.

One question for the pro-life crowd: Is it possible for a person to be pro-choice, anti-abortion, and Christian? I consider myself all three. And, I have a feeling, I’m not alone. I just happen to believe in free will and that making abortion illegal won’t end it, it will just drive it underground.

As an aside, I’m participating in an online class and discussion hosted by Princeton Seminary called “A Year with the Institutes”, a celebration of the 500th anniversary of the birth of John Calvin by reading the Institutes. All you Baptists out there…don’t forget, you’re Calvinists too. Interesting stuff so far. The section we’re in right now is all about the authority of Scripture, and answers the questions about what scripture is, and where does it’s authority come from.

People who are manipulated into place are not being moved by the spirit.

Two brief responses:

1) I have no idea how you might purport to know that this is true.
2) Even if we grant the truth of this claim arguendo, it is not clear to me that it matters. This commercial was not intended to help the Spirit. It was intended to convince voters (and thus politicians) to restrict abortion. To critique it on the basis that it is not moving people by the Spirit seems rather beside the point.

I just happen to believe in free will and that making abortion illegal won’t end it, it will just drive it underground.

For what little it is worth, I agree with the truth of this claim. This is not, however, a particularly compelling argument in favor of the legality of abortion, to my mind. After all, the legal prohibition against rape has not brought an end to rape. I like to think, however, that there are fewer rapes committed than would be the case were rape not illegal.

In other words, to say that laws against abortion would not end abortion, while true, rather misses the point of what a law is supposed to accomplish. We enact criminal laws because the acts in question are wrong and should be treated as such, not because we labor under the illusion that the mere existence of a law will, by itself, bring the prohibited conduct to an end.

Ok, then answer this one: Let’s say that abortion is made illegal. Who is the criminal? The doctor who performs it? The woman who has it? Both? And what should the punishment be?

hs, yes, both, murder is murder…give them the same treatment that WE CURRENTLY give a guy who takes the life of a fetus against the mother’s will. If that doesn’t make sense then logic has been left behind.

Oh, and nuanced seems to be a nice way to say two-faced.

I guess he should take a nuanced look at torture - it’s a bad thing, but let’s not ban it. Instead let’s take steps to minimize it; let’s educate the world not to commit horrible acts that would require our torture. That’s the real work of ending this horrible act. In many years a torture ban won’t be necessary because the “need” for torture will be gone.

Now that view would make the man look stupid. His nonsensical double speak on abortion has the same effect.

A law against abortion is not just important because it would outlaw abortion, it is important because it would recognize the rights of that child in utero. They would finally be protected by the law as the Constitution and biology demand. Would that mean that abortions would end? No unfortunately, but that is no reason not to do it.

hs, I know people who tell me that they are personally pro-life but are not against abortion as a choice to others. That’s no different than saying you are personally against any other crime (murder, rape, assault, you name it) but think it’s OK as a choice for others. It’s a blatant double standard, a cop-out. It is gutless and pathetic if you ask me.

You can’t hold the above feeling and be a Christian. It’s impossible.