Gay marriage and “God talk”
I was listening to a piece on NPR’s Morning Edition about the wedding of Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon when the following lines caught my attention: 
Outside City Hall, hundreds of supporters and some opponents of gay marriage gathered. Those protesting carried signs that said “Re-criminalize Sodomy” and “God Hates Lying Sinners.”
Ugh. I hardly know what to do with such language. “God hates lying sinners.” Really? Even if I could accept that all gay couples who choose to marry in a legal ceremony are “lying sinners” (and, let me be clear, I find that assertion scandalous), how does one justify saying that God hates anyone? Where is the charity, not to mention the humility and compassion, that Christians claim as the hallmarks of their faith?
I recognize that that protester and his sign are not a fair representation of all or even most people who oppose gay marriage. The sad truth is that when people use God language in that way, it is bound to get attention, but it is also likely to tar all religious people with the same brush.
The larger point is that gay marriage is one of those contentious issues where people on both sides can legitimately support their position by citing their religious beliefs. This is especially true once it moves from the realm of civil ceremonies into the area of church polity.
Sherry Tyree’s recent post pointed out that the Rev. Dr. Martin Dudley of the Church of England presided over what many are calling a gay wedding (in a published statement he said explicitly that the ceremony was celebrating a union that is “like a marriage but not a marriage, for I am clear that marriage is between a man and a woman”). The Anglican Communion is already in a furor over such issues, and this will inevitably heighten the tension in many quarters of our church; according to the Guardian newspaper, he has been admonished by his diocesan bishop as well as England’s two archbishops. Dudley himself gave this explanation for why he did it:
I did not seek the role, the interviews, the publicity, but more than thirty years ago I began a journey, a process of becoming, that focuses on Jesus the Christ, not as lawgiver and judge but as the one who loves us and holds us and will not let us go until we know ourselves as loved by him despite our foolishness and imperfections, and because of that, when Peter Cowell asked me, I did not hesitate, not even for a moment to answer “Yes, I will.”
There are probably some few other souls out there who haven’t quite figured out what to think about all this. Frankly, I count myself among the conflicted and uncertain. (Those of you who believe there is no room for ambivalence in the blogosphere, take note!) But I pray that wherever my church ultimately lands on this issue, we remain firm in our commitment to upholding the dignity of all persons. I have promised, through the Baptismal Covenant, to seek and serve Christ in all persons. That means everyone, from the angry protester to the rebellious priest, not just those with whom I agree.
Photo courtesy of NPR’s website.
Pamela Dolan is on staff at Emmanuel Episcopal Church in Webster Groves and is a Candidate for Holy Orders. After high school in Hawaii and college in California, she earned a master's degree in theology from Harvard before spending several years in New York studying medieval religion and literature. Pamela is married with two children. 
HS:
Yes, you are right. The church needs to function as “sinners anonymous” because we are all sinners, and no one sin is worse than the other.
Yet, the point I was trying to make is that we still have God’s law and God’s law says, “Don’t” for many things and “Do” for others. “Fulfilled” as you say does not mean “removed.” In Matt. 5:18, Jesus said that “not one jot or tittle,” of the law will by any means be removed. That means the law of God is still the law. (Further reading in Hebrews supports this.)
We could digress here into what the Torah means for gentile and Jewish believers here, but that’s a topic for another time. The early church sorted this out well (See Acts 15 and Galatians 3).
The paradox comes in embracing the one who is sinning, while exhorting them to return to God’s ways, in LOVING way (Read James 5.)
I understand your point on civil unions - at least they are not attempting to redefine marriage.
DOES GOD HATE GAYS?
GOD IS LOVE. This is true according to scripture. God is love, this means that God is the source of love and is loving – but, disobedience brings hate and wrath.
It is very disingenuous to point only to the sin of homosexuality as a separate sin from any other sin that is hated by God. I certainly understand how gays feel offended when it is pointed out that according to Christianity/God’s word, that same sex sexual relationships are sin. I can relate to being extremely uneasy and suffering from much discomfort because, even though being gay was not my sin, most of my past life at one time was sinful in God’s eyes when it was judged by God’s word (The Holy Bible). One has the choice to reject what’s written in the Holy Scriptures or reject it. I do realize that some feel that it is only a book, rejecting God’s word and disregarding it as just a book is the very free choice that God has given every man and woman, and no man has any right to force one to take away what God has given to each of us as a choice.
Those who chose to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior (Christians) are required to follow God’s inspired words as set forth in the Holy Scriptures, otherwise you have made up your own god according to your will, which is, idolatry (when anything or anybody gets what God alone deserves).
http://www.acts17-11.com/idolatry.html
Some synonyms for hate (to detest) are: venom, rancor, revenge, malignity, abomination, abhorrence, animosity, abhor, execrate, scorn, despise, look at with loathing, spit upon, anathematize, curse, swear eternal enmity, dislike intensely, shudder at, have enough of, be repelled by, feel repulsion for, have no use for, object to, bear malice, bear a grudge against, spurn, shrink or recoil from, disparage, shun, nauseate, tread or trample underfoot, denounce, resent, curse, be sick or tired of, reject, revolt against, hold cheap, deride, have no taste or stomach for, disfavor, look down upon, feel malice toward, be malevolent, hold in contempt, be disgusted with, view with horror, owe a grudge to.
Notice revenge to be one of the synonyms for hate.
We learn from scripture that “Vengeance (Hate) is the Lord’s, that we are not to avenge (hate). But, God does. As can be seen in the book of Romans, 12:19-21.
< Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it < is written: “It is mind to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the < contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him < something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his
< head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Scripture state clearly the fact that God does hate some people.
We learn in scripture that God hated a person, Esau, [Mal. 1:3], and that was because Esau thought the things of God was of no value. We learn in [Heb. 12:16-17], that the reason God hated Esau was because He considered Esau immoral and unspiritual who for a single meal sold his birthright.
We find in scripture Psalm 11:5, “The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates.”
We find in scripture Lev. 20:23, “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred (hated) them.”
We find in scripture Hosea 9:15, “The Lord says, “All their evildoing began in Gilgal. It was there that I began to hate them. And because of the evil they have done, I will drive them out of my land. I will not love them any more; all their leaders have rebelled against me.”
Other places in scripture shows us the things (sins) God hates.
There are seven things that the Lord hates and cannot tolerate: [Prov. 6:16-19]
1. A proud look
2. A lying tongue
3. Hands that kill innocent people
4. A mind that thinks up evil plans
5. Feet that hurry off to do evil
6. A witness who tells one lie after another.
7. Someone who stirs up trouble among friends.
Do not plan ways of harming one another. Do not give false testimony under oath.
I hate lying, injustice, and violence.” [Zec. 8:17].
“Hate what is evil, love what is right, and see that justice prevails in the courts. Perhaps the will be merciful to the people of this nation who are still left alive. [Amos 5:15]
God makes it clear that He hates divorce and the reason is given in the book of [Mal. 2:16].
God’s Word makes very clear that neither fornicators (sex outside wedlock) or homosexuals (same sex sexual relations) will possess His Kingdom. Scripture tells us that both are abominations to God. (hated by God).
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. Now concerning the things where of ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” [1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2]
Let marriage be had in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God’s Kingdom. Do you not fool yourselves, people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexuals or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves, none of these will possess God’s Kingdom. Some of you were like that. But you have been purified from sin; you have been dedicated to God; you have been put right with God by the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. [1 Corinthians 6:9-11]
Throughout the Holy Scriptures these the fact is shown that God does hate and that the things mentioned here are hated by God. I have listed only a few of these scriptures.
To sin is to break God’s Law and offend His character. To sin means to challenge His character and authority. It means you go against His word.
There are too many passages of scripture in the Holy Bible to list on how God hate’s sin. I will stop here.
As you can see according to His Word (the Holy Scriptures) God does hate people and sin. Anyone is free too accept this or to reject this truth as recorded.
Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. You {Jesus} loved justice and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions”; [Heb. 1:8-9]
“But you have this in your favor: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I {Jesus} also hate. ” ‘ “Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.” ‘ [Rv. 2:6-7]
“But you have this in your favor: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I {Jesus} also hate. ” ‘ “Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.” ‘ [Rv. 2:6-7]
Why did Jesus hate the works of the Nicolaitans (A church)? The following site will give one insight to that question:
http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx73.htm
So if the whole anti-gay marriage thing is bad because it is God’s law, then shouldn’t it be up to God and not the secular government of Man to determine those guilty of the sin? Personally, I feel that marriage should remain strictly in the realm of religion and civil union in the realm of government. I have no problem with religious institutions witnessing civil union for the sake of expediency, but the approval of a religious institution should not be necessary for the implementation of a set of legal rights.
Siblings are already in the line of next of kin, so there is no reason for a civil union between them. So this would not allow for incest.
If the government is to implement laws consistent with the Christian bible, thus outlawing homosexuality, then should it also ban ham to be consistent with the Kashrut laws of the Old Testament?
Hmmm…I can’t reply to each of these comments with the seriousness and specificity they deserve, but let me make a couple of observations, which are mostly echoing things already said.
One, I am tending more and more toward agreeing with the proposal that civil unions be offered by the government and weddings/marriages by the church. That would mean that heterosexual and homosexual couples would be treated equally by the state (which is not yet true in most of our country today), and churches would continue to be free to make their own decisions about what unions to bless (as they are today). This would be a clearer separation of church and state than currently exists, and might take some of the religious heat out of the “civil union” debate.
Two, I can’t quite agree with those who say we shouldn’t be making such a fuss over this topic. At moments I would like nothing more than for it to simply go away, but that is an entirely selfish desire on my part. Gay, lesbian, and transgendered persons have every right to see this as a matter of social justice, and those of us who are in the cultural majority must be very careful before we dismiss their concerns.
Three, the “love the sinner, hate the sin” model doesn’t quite work for me. And here’s why: I’m just not convinced that homosexuality is a sin. Which brings me to
Four, the role of Holy Scripture. I have a lot of sympathy for Kit’s comment about twisting Scripture to suit our needs or desires. This is *much* too big a topic to adequately address in a blog comment; I’ll try to come back to it soon. For now let me say that while I believe that scripture is God’s Word, I also believe that it comes to us in human language and a historically-mediated form that requires our serious, scholarly, and prayerful attention. The Catechism of the Catholic Church itself says that “in order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking, and narrating then current” (110). So asking what the Bible tells us about a complicated topic is rarely a question that elicits a simple answer.
Hi Pam,
That was a thoughtful response. Thank you!
I would like to add one thing when it comes to scriptural interpretation (hermeneutics.) The way I see it, language is written for an intended audience,so we must be trained in how that audience would decode and understand the language. It is very important that Christians interpret the scripture in community, not just out on one’s own. This is how you get the Obama/Dobson debate!
I think from a holistic scriptural interpretation, it is important to see how that humankind is created in the image of God, male and female he created them. He created us as engendered people, with specific roles and functions as part of natural law and order of creation. Homosexuality is really a sin against the 1st commandment, because it tells God, “You don’t know what you’re talking about!” and sets us up in God’s place. It says, “Despite being created as an engendered, sexual being, I will not follow the way I have been created.” Now as to the whys or hows of this particular temptation, I cannot say the tendency or attraction is the sin part. It is safe to say that homosexual acts and lust are the sin part. Just like a person lusting after someone not their spouse, and then falling into adultery.
I can see that some would say that marriage between gay people would fix this, but marriage is indeed the union between man and woman, always has been. That someone struggles with it or finds themselves attracted to the same sex, even falls into the sin is not the issue. The issue is saying that we must accept the sin and sanction it as blessed of God. If someone is habitually struggling with this issue, if they admit it is sinful, it is no different from someone struggling with any other sin. That’s the big problem for me, that people are defiant in their hubris saying, “What is not a sin is a sin.” This is clear in the first few chapters of Romans. I’ll accept and love any person who comes into my faith community, regardless of their affliction or sin, but I will constantly exhort them to live a Christ-like life, repent, and ask God’s help in living God’s way.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%201;&version=47;
Whoops, I should proofread better:
what I meant to say in the last paragraph is, “That’s the big problem for me, that people are defiant in their hubris saying, “What is [according to God] a sin is NOT a sin.” This is clear in the first few chapters of Romans. I’ll accept and love any person who comes into my faith community, regardless of their affliction or sin, but I will constantly exhort them to live a Christ-like life, repent, and ask God’s help in living God’s way.