Is it a sin to BE homosexual?

Yes, the church is a place that should accept sinners, but not their sins. It is a place where sinners should be able to disclose the sins that they are struggling with so that they can overcome their sins. Uder no circumstances does God accept the embracing of any sin.

The question was posed if God hated Homosexuals in Pam Dolan’s last post. I think my response would benefit under this post also.

DOES GOD HATE GAYS?

GOD IS LOVE. This is true according to scripture. God is love, this means that God is the source of love and is loving – but, disobedience brings hate and wrath.

It is very disingenuous to point only to the sin of homosexuality as a separate sin from any other sin that is hated by God. I certainly understand how gays feel offended when it is pointed out that according to Christianity/God’s word, that same sex sexual relationships are sin. I can relate to being extremely uneasy and suffering from much discomfort because, even though being gay was not my sin, most of my past life at one time was sinful in God’s eyes when it was judged by God’s word (The Holy Bible).

One has the choice to reject what’s written in the Holy Scriptures or reject it. I do realize that some feel that it is only a book, rejecting God’s word and disregarding it as just a book is the very free choice that God has given every man and woman, and no man has any right to force one to take away what God has given to each of us as a choice.

Those who chose to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior (Christians) are required to follow God’s inspired words as set forth in the Holy Scriptures, otherwise you have made up your own god according to your will, which is, idolatry (when anything or anybody gets what God alone deserves).
http://www.acts17-11.com/idolatry.html

Some synonyms for hate (to detest) are: venom, rancor, revenge, malignity, abomination, abhorrence, animosity, abhor, execrate, scorn, despise, look at with loathing, spit upon, anathematize, curse, swear eternal enmity, dislike intensely, shudder at, have enough of, be repelled by, feel repulsion for, have no use for, object to, bear malice, bear a grudge against, spurn, shrink or recoil from, disparage, shun, nauseate, tread or trample underfoot, denounce, resent, curse, be sick or tired of, reject, revolt against, hold cheap, deride, have no taste or stomach for, disfavor, look down upon, feel malice toward, be malevolent, hold in contempt, be disgusted with, view with horror, owe a grudge to.
Notice revenge to be one of the synonyms for hate.

We learn from scripture that “Vengeance (Hate) is the Lord’s, that we are not to avenge (hate). But, God does. As can be seen in the book of Romans, 12:19-21.

< Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mind to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Scripture state clearly the fact that God does hate some people.

We learn in scripture that God hated a person, Esau, [Mal. 1:3], and that was because Esau thought the things of God was of no value. We learn in [Heb. 12:16-17], that the reason God hated Esau was because He considered Esau immoral and unspiritual who for a single meal sold his birthright.
We find in scripture Psalm 11:5, “The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates.”
We find in scripture Lev. 20:23, “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred (hated) them.”
We find in scripture Hosea 9:15, “The Lord says, “All their evildoing began in Gilgal. It was there that I began to hate them. And because of the evil they have done, I will drive them out of my land. I will not love them any more; all their leaders have rebelled against me.”
Other places in scripture shows us the things (sins) God hates.
There are seven things that the Lord hates and cannot tolerate: [Prov. 6:16-19]
1. A proud look
2. A lying tongue
3. Hands that kill innocent people
4. A mind that thinks up evil plans
5. Feet that hurry off to do evil
6. A witness who tells one lie after another.
7. Someone who stirs up trouble among friends.

Do not plan ways of harming one another. Do not give false testimony under oath.
I hate lying, injustice, and violence.” [Zec. 8:17].

“Hate what is evil, love what is right, and see that justice prevails in the courts. Perhaps the will be merciful to the people of this nation who are still left alive. [Amos 5:15]

God makes it clear that He hates divorce and the reason is given in the book of [Mal. 2:16].

God’s Word makes very clear that neither fornicators (sex outside wedlock) or homosexuals (same sex sexual relations) will possess His Kingdom. Scripture tells us that both are abominations to God. (hated by God).
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. Now concerning the things where of ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” [1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2]

Let marriage be had in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God’s Kingdom. Do you not fool yourselves, people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexuals or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves, none of these will possess God’s Kingdom. Some of you were like that. But you have been purified from sin; you have been dedicated to God; you have been put right with God by the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. [1 Corinthians 6:9-11]

Throughout the Holy Scriptures these the fact is shown that God does hate and that the things mentioned here are hated by God. I have listed only a few of these scriptures.

To sin is to break God’s Law and offend His character. To sin means to challenge His character and authority. It means you go against His word.

There are too many passages of scripture in the Holy Bible to list on how God hate’s sin. I will stop here.

As you can see according to His Word not mind God does hate people and sin, and homosexuality is a sin just as sex outside wedlock is.

Sherry, first off, I’m about as protestant as they get. One branch of my family fled Bavaria after the 30 years war because they were Protestant. So, while I find Catholic doctrine interesting, and valuable in places, there are places where I differ significantly.

That being said, I do understand where you and D. Walker are coming from. Really, I do. The problem comes when we create a ‘rule’ that says, in essence, that SOME sins are so bad that the person who is practicing it has no place in the church. If we’re going to create a rule that says that practicing homosexuals cannot take communion, or teach a sunday school class, or handle the church’s money…then we need to expand said rule to suggest than anyone who practices ANY sin (pick your list) cannot do those things.

And we all know that we’re NOT going to do that. There wouldn’t be anyone left to do the work

By the way: I believe the table is open to all who profess faith in Jesus Christ. That’s the only requirement that I can see in scripture.

I think the ‘marriage’ issue is primarily one of semantics. I have no problem with legal civil unions that grant things like survivor rights. Just don’t call it “marriage”. Marriage is, as Sherry pointed out, the closest thing we have in our culture today to the Biblical concept of Covenant. And, I’m not sure we really understand it that way.

One more comment: The church in the US has been hashing and re-hashing human sexuality and homosexuality in particular for the better part of 30 years or more. I’m waiting for a church council, or a national assembly, or SOMEONE to say Enough!

There is a whole lot more in the Bible about ministry and meeting the needs of the lost and a host of other subjects than there is about sex, for gosh sakes.

I guarantee that this summer, when the various national denominations meet for their national assemblies, there will be banner headlines about their various positions on homosexuality. Any press releases about any other subject (except perhaps Iraq) will wind up with 1 column inch on the back page next to the obituaries.

hs,

You say:

< If we’re going to create a rule that says that practicing homosexuals
< cannot take communion, or teach a Sunday school class, or handle the
< church’s money…then we need to expand said rule to suggest than anyone
< who practices ANY sin (pick your list) cannot do those things.

You are correct in what you suggest above. You better believe that God is judging the churches.

It really does not matter where I or anyone else is coming from; it is not about what I think or anyone thinks. But, what God’s inspired word says.

The first issue one must decide and come to terms with,is:

DO YOU AGREE WITH WHAT GOD’S WORD SAYS?

If one DOES NOT, there lies the problem. He/She rejects God’s word and Christianity. It’s just plain old rejection. You do not believe that the Holy Scriptures are God’s inspired words. You look for a different God and do not believe the true God is disclosed in Scripture. You reject Christianity. You have made up your own god according to how you would want God to be. But, instead of people admitting that they reject God’s word and Christianity, some including yourself want to change God into being someone different than who He is as disclosed to us through scripture. These types of people prefer to change the God disclosed in scripture into someone that fits your comfort-zone instead of accepting Him as written and disclosed to us through the Holy Scriptures.

IMMORALITY IN THE CHURCH

There’s scripture covering immorality in the church in [1 Cor. 5: 4-6].

Now, it is actually being said that there is sexual immorality among you so terrible that not even the heathen would be guilty of it. I am told that a man is sleeping with his stepmother! How, then, can you be proud? On the contrary, you should be filled with sadness, and the man who has done such a thing should be expelled from your fellowship. And even though I am far away from you in body, still I am there with you in spirit; and as though I were there with you. I have in the name of our Lord Jesus already passed judgment on the man who has done this terrible thing. As you meet together, and I meet with you in my spirit, by the power of our Lord Jesus present with us, you are to hand this man over to Satan for his body to be saved in the Day of the Lord. It is not right for you to be proud! You know the saying, “A little bit of yeast makes the whole batch of dough rise.” You must remove the old yeast of sin so that you will be entirely pure. Then you will be like a new batch of dough without any yeast, as indeed I know you actually are. For Passover Festival is ready, now that Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us celebrate our Passover, then, not with bread having the old yeast of sin and wickedness, but with the bread that has no yeast, the bread of purity and truth. [1 Cor. 5: 4-6].

COMMUNION

The partaking of communion, like Passover, one must judge himself before taking part in, and be sure that you don’t have sin in your life that you must confess (repent) and turn away from.

The Eucharist, also called Holy Communion or Lord’s Supper and other names, is one of the Christian sacraments that was instituted by Jesus of Nazareth.

Partaking in communion is so much a serious matter; so serious indeed, one should take a look at what the Holy Scriptures says about it:

[1 Cor. 11:23-32]
For I received from the Lord the teaching that I passed on to you: that the Lord Jesus, on the night He was betrayed, took a piece of bread, gave thanks to God, broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in memory of me.” In the same way, after the supper He took the cup and said, “This cup is God’s new covenant, sealed with my blood. Whenever you drink it, do so in memory of Me. This means that every time you eat this bread and drink from this cup you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. It follows that if one of you eats the Lords bread or drinks from His cup in a way that dishonors Him, you are guilty of sin against the Lord’s body and blood. So then, you should each examine yourself first, and then eat the bread and drink from the cup. For if you do not recognize the meaning of the Lord’s body when you eat the bread and drink from the cup, you bring JUDGMENT on yourself as you eat and drink. THAT IS WHY MANY OF YOU ARE SICK AND WEAK, AND SERVERAL HAVE DIED. If we would examine ourselves first, we would not come under God’s judgment. BUT WE ARE JUDGED AND PUNISHED BY THE LORD, SO THAT WE SHALL NOT BE CONDEMNED TOGETHER WITH THE WORLD.

WILL CHRISTIANS BE JUDGED?

Christians will indeed come before God’s judgment seat [2 Cor 5.10]. However, the Greek word for “judgment seat” in 2 Cor. 5.10 is “bema”, it is NOT the Great White Throne of judgment where unsaved people (non-believers) will be judged [Rev. 20.11-15].

In Biblical times, the “bema” was the name for the Judge’s stand during marathon races. It was solely a place for bestowing REWARDS, and not punishment.

Likewise, God’s judgment of Christians will be solely to determine who should receive rewards [1 Cor. 3.11-15]. There will be NO punishment of anyone at God’s bema seat, only rewards for those Christians who earned them. As noted earlier, the punishment for sins has already been inflicted upon God’s own Son.

1 Cor. 3.11-15 describes a Christian’s good works as “gold, silver, precious stones.” Christians will be rewarded for these good works.

1 Cor. 3.11-15 describes a Christian’s failures as “wood, hay, straw.” These bad works will be burned up in the fire of God’s judgment.

However, note what 1 Cor. 3.15 tells us — ” If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss (of rewards); but he himself will be SAVED, yet so as through fire.”

There are different kinds of Christians: faithful and unfaithful [Matthew 25:21]

UNFAITHFUL CHRISTIANS

The unfaithful Christian as described in Matthew 25, the unfaithful Christian (servant) was thrown into hell. [Matthew 25:30].

As for this useless servant, throw him outside in the darkness; there he will cry and gnash his teeth. [Matthew 25:30].

The (Christian) who just buried his talent seeks to excuse himself on the basis of God’s great power; in fact, he believes God to be sort of omnipotent: reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.

However, the sovereignty of God never excuses the laziness of a Christian; it condemns that laziness all the more. Those who don’t work for the Lord, or pray, or evangelize because “God is sovereign” are condemning themselves by their laziness - by their actions (or lack of action), they show that they, like the wicked Christian (servant) in the parable, do not know God at all. This something that I struggled with greatly.

The charge against this Christian who merely buried his talent is that he was wicked and lazy; we too rarely see laziness as a real sin, something that must be repented of before the Lord.

The Christian shows himself to be not a true Christian, follower of Christ what-so-ever; so it is fitting that he (and all like him who show the same heart) are cast forever out of the master’s presence.

The talents here are used as figures of speech. Talents are generally treated as gifts (as in skills). The talents are viewed as opportunities, and you will be held accountable. The last guy refused to put to use what the Lord had entrusted Him with. Hiding it for safekeeping is not using it. Whatever gifts and resources that the Lord has put at your disposal (authority, place in community, skills, money etc..). What are you doing with them? You lose when you don’t put them to use. The return of it, the Lord will take care of, whether 10-fold or 100-fold. You will take risks. Where there is no vision or trust in God, the people perish.

We all have things about us that are not yet up to the expectations set forth by God, but we must acknowledge our short comings and continuously work towards overcoming and perfecting those areas in our lives that doesn’t measure up to what is recorded in the Holy Scriptures, and those areas in our lives that God has shined His light on, that do not measure up to His expectations as set forth in the Holy Scriptures. Only God knows the genuineness of one’s heart, but you must reconcile your life with God’s word and truth to be in good standing with God.

If after examining ourselves, judging yourself against God’s word, and if you in good conscience find that you are in good standing with God, then you are worthy of partaking communion.

If after examining yourself and you find that you are not a faithful Christian, then you would be wise to continue searching and learning about God through scripture and having faith and trust in God’s word that tells us, “ if you seek Him you will find Him”.

Seek Him in spirit and truth as disclosed in scripture, trust God and He will give you a new heart that is able to measure up to His expectations as set forth by His inspired word. (It is a supernatural occurance).

For some this happens almost immediately, but others, it is a long process, as it was for me, I think it was because even as a child, I was a strong willed child, hard to break.

Never quit and turn back away from God as I did so many times, not understanding this very thing. I have many wounds from turning back and going about things my way and not God’s way. The very punishments work for your good. No one can break a strong will as God can. He will teach those who truly belongs to Him to desire to follow and to follow His ways in everything that they do.

D. Walker: I don’t want to get into a battle of proof-texting. I agree, everything you write is in the scripture. If I honestly assess myself, I should never approach the table And, I’d suggest, neither should you or anyone else.

What about Grace?

I, like many others, have often wondered what Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was. In a sense, I suppose it doesn’t really matter. I take it to mean a particular sin that he found himself easily falling into over and over, no matter what he tried to do about it. If I enter the sanctuary and approach the Table with humility and acknowledgment of my sinful NATURE, then I can trust that Grace will do the rest.

I have sinful aspects of my life that I struggle with daily, that I repent of daily and yet find myself falling into daily. Don’t you? Consider Romans 7:14-20.

While one sin shouldn’t be elevated out of proportion to its sinfulness, neither should it be singled out to be overlooked or “affirmed” as not sin. There really isn’t a decision the church has to make. The ball should be in the court of the sinners….as always.

hs,

Scripture is very clear that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was a physical ailment that God allowed to remind Paul of his weakness (the fact that God was his strength). To keep him from being too puffed up from all the wonderful things that God had given him to see (visions and revelations). We learn from reading scripture that Paul had a tendency to boast. Paul struggled with arrogance, he had a tendency to be puffed up as we can see in scripture concerning Paul.

We know being proud (arrogant) is not the works of God, but Satan.

2 Corinthians 12:7-9 (New International Version)

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

2 Corinthians 12:1-10 (Holy Bible – Today’s English Version)

I have boasted, even though it doesn’t do any good. But I will now talk about visions and revelations given to me by the Lord. I know a certain Christian man who fourteen years ago was snatched up to the highest heaven (I do not know whether this actually happened or whether he had a vision, only God knows). I repeat, I know that this man was snatched to Paradise (again, I do not know whether this happened or whether it was a vision, only God knows), and there he heard things which cannot be put into words, things that human lips may not speak. So I will boast about this man, but I will not boast about myself, except the things that show how weak I am. If I wanted to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be telling the truth. But I will not boast, because I do not want any of you to have a higher opinion of me than you have seen me do and heard me say. But to keep me from being puffed up with pride because of the many wonderful things I saw, I was given a painful physical ailment, which acts as Satan’s messenger to beat me and keep me from being proud. Three times I prayed to the Lord about this and asked him to take it away. But his answer was “My grace is all you need, for my power is greatest when you are weak.” I am most happy, then, to be proud of my weaknesses, in order to feel the protection of Christ’s power over me. I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

hs,

We do know from scripture itself that Paul’s sin that he struggled with was pride (arrogance) and that Paul recognized it as sin and did not attempt to change or pervert God’s word so that his sin would not be sin.

When anyone examines himself, they can know if they have a clean conscience, by how one respond to any sin(s) that he/she may be dealing with in their life. Do you acknowledge your sin and recognize it as sin and not try to justify your sin or change your sin into not being sin? Do you repent (are you genuinely sorry for the sin in your life)? Only we can examine that for ourselves, knowing that God cannot be fooled.

Paul’s sin of pride must have been so great and difficult for Paul that God had to allow him to be inflicted with some painful physical ailment to keep his pride under control to a point of it not being counted as sin against Paul.

God always provides those who belong to Him a way to deal with temptations and not allow them to overcome us.

The only thing that was not disclosed about Paul’s thorn in the flesh (physical element), was what were the actual physical element(s).

Just because some of our sins do not disappear from us right away, do not take that as believing that you cannot over come it. It is by God’s grace that we overcome our sins. He has given us a way to overcome the tempation of sin. Just stick with Him and through His grace you will find that you no longer struggle with the particular sin. As soon as you are over one sin, God will shine His light on another one you must deal with. It is a never-ending battle, crucifying the flesh. It is a lifetime of striving to perfection. But, no Christian, once sin is shown to you to be sin and acknowledged by you as sin, should one be struggling with that one sin for a lifetime to overcome. Your free will comes into play also.

I find it interesting how many religious, political, and social debates the topic of homosexuality brings about when we don’t even understand the biology behind it. Does anyone else notice that?

Something causes a human to be homosexual. It is not a natural thing to ignore the drive to carry on the genetic line. But due to political correctness and the debates being waged in all the other arenas mentioned above we seem to have ignored the fact that it would benefit everyone to have more information on homosexuality itself.

Before someone flies off the handle I am not saying we need to find a “cure”. There are many things about humans that different and we all have something “abnormal” about us. But science and fact will always lend itself to more useful discussions.

Tim,

The discussion is homosexuality in relationship to Christianity, not the worldly view of the subject or any causes for the reason of homosexuality, which are many, I suppose. We are looking at it strickly in the spiritual sense here, which is how Chrsitians are instructed to see all matters.

How can you hold any discussion on a topic without understanding the historical context in which it was first framed and the nature of the topic itself? Religious discussions can be particularly tricky since Scripture will often contradict itself elsewhere. Add in the various sects of Christianity and top it off with a good dose of each person’s moral code and you are left with a discussion of purely opinion, devoid of a factual base to work from. Most of us don’t even use the same version of the Bible! This discussion can achieve no real world value and usefullness if it does not include other spectrums that the discussion is held in.