Comments on the Palestine Conflict
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It is difficult to have a reasonable discussion on the Palestine-Israel issue. Passions run very high. I guess as a Muslim I am supposed to offer support for Palestinian suffering and condemnation of Israeli brutality. Whenever events flare up in Palestine (like they have right now), there is a knee jerk response here in USA by Jews and by Muslims in passionate support of their respective co-religionists (and opposing the other). This is not very healthy. Suffering of all civilians is important and this spiraling violence has been going on far too long with no end in sight. We need to step back and take a hard look. Here are a few thoughts.
After over 40 years of violence and turmoil very little seems to have changed. It seems each side only goads the other to ever more depraved acts of violence. Over the years, both sides have committed so many acts of violence against civilians that neither has any real claim left to moral righteousness for their position. Also consider that in these intervening years others were able to find peace in places with arguably just as difficult conflicts ( like Northern Ireland and South Africa and the former Yugoslavia) while there is no peace in sight in Palestine. Each side in Palestine is very adept at blaming the other but neither has any real vision of peace. There has been a complete lack of leadership in both the Palestinians and the Israelis on how to achieve peace. A dispassionate observer would conclude that perhaps neither side really wants peace.
As an American I am concerned that we have over that past 40 years spent more aid money in this area (mainly to Israel and Egypt) than the rest of the world combined and yet there has been no progress on achieving lasting peace. Are we enabling and rewarding bad behavior and so making the situation worse? The same question goes to the American Jews and American Muslims. By our knee jerk responses are we also enabling and rewarding bad behavior and so making the situation worse?
Looking around the world, there are humanitarian issues far greater than the Palestine-Israel issue in the world today that receive a fraction of our attention. The rapid rise in grain prices and the impact on billions of poor the world over is surely a much greater crisis. Also the continuing problems in Western Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo impact far more people. Perhaps in view of the continued lack of progress in Palestine we need to focus some attention on these issues where we may have more positive impact.
Finally I would like to offer this thought from Prophet Muhammad : ”help your brother whether he is a wronged or is a wrong doer.” And he went on to explain that: “the way you support your wrong doer brother is by stopping him from that bad action”. I hope that all of us exert more influence on our co-religionists in finding peace for all in Palestine.
Khalid Shah, 50, is an American Muslim who came to the U.S. 32 years ago. He and his wife have lived in the St. Louis area since 1990, and have been active in a variety of interfaith activities as well as in the local Muslim communities. They have both spoken about Islam at a variety of houses of worship. After working as an engineer for most of his career, he is currently a small business owner. 
D. Walker,
In your comparison, Hamas (the bank robber?) would be a criminal recognized by all as such including their own citizens, and Israel and Palestine would be the authorities acting to stop them and protect their own citizens from the bank robber.
This does not appear to be the case.
As a soldier, I would not engage the enemy from my own house without being willing to sacrifice my own family. Blaming the enemy for their death is not being responsible for my own commitment.
Terrorism is an act of moral defeat. They have lost before they began.
Another,
There is moral behavior that all civilized people agree on, regardless of their religion. It is precisely at the point of conflict that it is most important that we do live up to our principles. If whenever there is war it is OK to violate our principles that is what is known as hypocrisy. Killing of civilians comes under this moral principle. If we do not follow moral principles when we choose then we have no business thinking our behavior is any better than the worst among humanity.
On the issue of separation of church and state, which is what I think you are referring to. My understanding is that the founding fathers did believe in religious values and considered them the underpinnings of a good society. It was for this reason that early in our history (I think it was Abraham Lincoln) that religious institutions were given a tax free status in order to enhance the strength of religious institutions. However the concern was that if you let religion be part of government then some people may try to enforce a particular interpretation of a religion in making laws (by the way this is really at the heart of the abortion debate as well as the debate in schools about teaching evolution. It is a particular view of religion that is driving one side of each debate)and having seen the corrosive effect this can have in society (in Europe) they wanted to avoid the same mistake in America. It wasn’t that religion does not have answers to issues facing society. Religion does and each person should use their faith background as part of their moral life but one person should not enforce their moral position on others or on all society.
Another,
In response to your comment to D. Walker. This is precisely the argument used by Osama bin Laden to justify killing of USA civilians or anyone who supports USA. No a civilian is NOT guilty simply by association or even by showing support. Only if they are physically engaged in terrorist activities, which means they are no longer civilians. A large number of the civilian casualties are children. Are you really suggesting that these children deserved to be killed because they live in Gaza? Then are the Palestinians justified in killing any or all Israelis simply because they are Israelis and supported (presumably although not all Israelis support this war, just like not all Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas) this wanton killing of civilians. You are a thinking person, please ponder you position.
If we are moral human beings we must work to avoid ALL civilian casualties.
“There is moral behavior that all civilized people agree on, regardless of their religion.”
Yes. I agree with that.
That moral code is created for people, by people. It is our responsibility in this world as people.
God provides inspiration for this, prophets provide ways to this, we make choices, commitments and maintain our integrity in this. It is our doing.
For any religion or person to declare righteousness about this is an act to steal from the people their ongoing conversation with God.
It is already automatically in our thoughts that it is “wrong” for civilians to die. I suggest that thought is designed to numb the pain and suffering from the death with self righteousness and blame. Israel (or Hamas) is killing civilians, not me. They are wrong, not me. I know what is right. I am good with God!
It is how people use the moral code. It is less a personal declaration and commitment, and more a compass for keeping themselves right with God in the eyes of others.
My point is to imagine this situation being resolved without blame. In that context, how would you go about it without making someone wrong?
Faith relieves us of judgement. This is for God. For us, it is to honor our moral code with integrity, to honor our word to ourselves and with each other.
Achieve that and you have the power to achieve peace.
Disappear the right and wrong, the judgement, and you will have peace and love.
Judge and punish and it will rise again another day even stronger.
We may disagree on this. It took me a long time to come to a place where I can work to give up judgment as a context for making my choices, and many do not agree.
I have found that there is little power in determining who is right or who is wrong. Making someone right only begins the process of diminishing the one who we make wrong by doing so. They resist even more in their tale of being right. The more we declare them wrong, the stronger becomes their resistance to our words.
I honor what inspires me and my commitments generated from that. I trust God to provide that inspiration.
You and I agree on the moral code: “Do not kill.” They will stop killing each other. Together, we can be a stand for that.
I will not be drawn into a debate about the right or wrong of it. That is only a story with the intention to maintain someone’s righteousness in a matter of not wanting to be held to their word.
Tolerate killing for the right cause, and you have not honored your word.
I am not a pacifist. I will defend myself and my family, and the lives of others. I will do it from my inspired love and commitment to life. I will not do it because it is the right thing to do and in so doing pretend to make another person who does not see what I see wrong before God.
I do very much enjoy your posts. Thank you.
This won’t end until Israel’s right to exist is really and wholly accepted by everybody.
We can be diplomatic and nice to all sides, but when it comes down to it, one side would just assume push the other into the sea never to exist again. Try talking peace to that mentality.
I won’t take the point of view that Isreal is the sole victim or that Palestine is the sole agressor, but if you want peace accept that they are there to stay and have the right to exist.
And stop “electing” terrorist leadership if you don’t want to look like the agressor to the world.
Oh, and at the end of a 3 hr. cease fire that you begged for, don’t be the first to start lobbing rockets at civilian targets.
One more thing, those civilian deaths are on Palestine’s hands. You can’t start a war by attacking civilians, get into said war that you are way undergunned on, hide in residential areas and then blame the other side for civilian casualties. What does the Koran say about using innocent human shields?
I am not saying that civilians or children deserve to die because of their sympathies, where they live, who their parents are, or any other circumstance.
I am saying that blame and righteous indignation is not a powerful way to manage life.
If you throw a rock at the mother bear’s cubs, and then run into your house where your family is, you are responsible for the consequences when she follows. Innocence has nothing to do with it.
Blaming the mother bear for being a mother bear makes no difference.
In the context of responsibility, Hamas is not committed to safe guarding its civilian life. We can determine this from the outcome. We do not need to know who is right or who is wrong.
They are reckless and irresponsible if they are tring to protect their own civilian life.
The events are as predictable as night and day. The intention is clear.
Responsibility is an simple commitment, it applies only to yourself. Blame is the pretense we use to avoid it.
Peace is for those who want it.
Pretending to hold its own innocent lives hostage for the world’s comdemnation of Israel will not work.
Not a judgment, it just won’t work.
It does work to hold their own pain and suffering in place to feed their rightousness. It is very dark work.
Sadly, this is a lesson they must take on for themselves. Only when they have experienced total despair, and maybe not even then, will they have the desire to make a difference in it.
Mike and Another,
The primary problem with both your arguments is the wrong assumption that only one side is always the aggressor and only one side is always the victim. Both Israelis and Palestinians have initiated attacks, both have reneged on treaties, both have committed atrocities. To an outsider Israel has committed far more atrocities. But this may be more of case of capability (Israel is one of the top five military forces in the world). The Palestinians just don’t match Israel in firepower (no fighter planes, no tanks, no armored vehicles).
No argument from me about the facts of the conflict. I agree with your assessment.
Who’s responsibility do you want to discuss Hamas or Israel? They are separate conversations.
Hamas is in a declared war against Israel. Complaining or defending for them about the consequences of that will not make a difference. They have the responsibility and the freedom to conduct their business. They have chosen their course and its results.
Are you suggesting we hold them responsible for their civilian deaths that are an outcome of that war? Yes, I agree.
Israel is doing the same. Do we hold them responsible for the civilian deaths that are a result of that? Yes, I agree.
Remove the blame, and you are now directly confronted with the problem.
Now what? A conversation about who has the greater moral capacity will not make a difference.
My suggestion: publish the atrocities, show the world, shine the light on it, show the despair, share the pain and suffering, confront everyone, but do not egage in a conversation of blame or righteousness. It is only a distraction to being present to the reality of who they are being for themselves and each other.
There will be no insight for Hamas or Israel if we allow ourselves to be drawn into their debate about what is right. If we allow ourselves to be used to justify any of this for either.
Condemn them both equally if you must, but I would suggest against that as well. They are both good people caught in a battle of righteousness.
I think what we’re seeing is another proof of the basic idea that terrorism cannot be defeated solely by military action. I agree with Another, neither side in this conflict is blameless. Neither side is “right”. And, neither side is “wrong” either. What we’re seeing, in many ways, is the latest installment in the oldest human pattern of all. When a well equipped group of migrants appear in a place, they push out the ‘natives’ and attempt to destroy them. When the natives fight back, they get dumped on.
We can go around and around arguing about who has the right to be there, who was there first, and so on. That argument, while perhaps interesting to the Anthropologists, doesn’t deal with the problem. On the Israeli side, their official statement is basically that they want to be left alone to live in peace. Now, they don’t live it very well, but that IS their official statement. The Palestinians, fundamentally, are still mad, 2 generations later, about being kicked out of their homes. Now, I think a careful reading of history would suggest that the various non-Israeli leaders in the region after WWII, kept the Palestinians in the camps rather than absorbing them for political reasons. After all, wasn’t Jordan supposed to be the “Palestinian” homeland under the Balfour declaration? Remember, prior to around 1920, there were no nations as we understand them in the region of Palestine. There were just a bunch of tribal groups that didn’t get along all that well, with constantly shifting boundaries. The area had been occupied by various colonial powers for centuries, and it had probably been 2500 years since there was anything approaching local national boundaries.
If anyone bears fundamental responsibility for the mess in the middle east, we in the West better look in the mirror. After WWII, the area was a complete mess, and the western political leaders basically promised to work with anyone who pledged to clean up the mess. WE installed all the various “kings” in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon. And then we washed our hands of the outcome.
These people have been fighting with each other for what, 3000 years? And we think we can get them to stop, just like that? Who are we kidding?
Kalid,
I stated that neither side is the sole agressor. My point is simple. If the media darling of Palestine was so innocent as we keep hearing, then stop crowding women and children around your rocket launchers, overthow Hamas, and when you beg for a cease fire, don’t start launching rockets IMMEDIATELY after it ends.
Yes, nobody is innocent, but as an entity, Palestine won’t let anything end. They insist on terrorism and they insist on the end of Israel (as does the rest of the middle east.) So, how can we ever expect this to end if they won’t quit until Israel is no more?
The palestinians and their blood thirsty leadership are responsible for hundreds of civilian deaths in this current conflict, and their Islamic neighbors should hold them responsible.