Another excellent post, Khalid. I will put in what you already know I will put in.

We need only to declare ourselves as right, make friends with those who agree, make enemies of those who do not, and go about the business of it.

This is what we did in Iraq. Those in this world who claim and maintain authority over what is right and wrong are the judges of this in this world. Their claim to power and authority is what is right. It rules the mob.

To argue , as our inspiration of who we are and what we will do, what is right and wrong will produce more of the same. All war, all conflict, all suppression/oppression and abuse is managed by those who declare the context to be right and wrong.

The right and wrong of Iraq is obvious to anyone, as it is through out the world. Have this conversation in another context than what is right and wrong, and you will make a difference.

How about peace, love, and acceptance?

Beware! Make these what is right and someone will defend them at your expense and their righteousness.

Shift the context, and you will shift the outcome.

How about this as an even briefer statement of faith and patriotism:

It isn’t “God and Country” it is, simply, “GOD”.

Unfortunately, for those who are the most vehement on this subject, admitting wrong is something nations should never do. For this group, humility, whether it is individual or national, is a sign of weakness. They equate humility with humiliation, two very different things.

The great poet philosopher Muhammad Iqbal (also known as Allama Iqbal) whose vision posthumously gave birth to the nation of Pakistan, did in one of his poems write: ‘In taza khudaon mein sab say bara watan hai’. In these fresh new Gods the biggest one is nation. That being said we are stuck, at least for now, in a nation based world. So we need to accept the situation and work to temper this tendency.

Another,
The point about right and wrong I think I am understanding but here we were dealing in specifics. Even before the war there was ample indication that Iraq did not have WMDs nor did it have any link to the attack on 9/11/2001. My point was that in the future we cannot sit and be so accepting. We must ask the tough questions, we must not take elected officials simply at their word when such a big moral dilemma, as war certainly is, faces us.

I agree.

However, there is inherently nothing wrong with nations. They are what they are. It is when they claim to be right as the source for their actions that they become inauthentic.

World War II, in hindsight, was obvious. Push back agression and restore order. No right or wrong here. It was an action aligned with the commitment among nations for peace and order in the world.

The same in Desert Storm. Push back aggression and restore order.

The use of moral righteousness in the acts of nations is only to invoke an emotional energy, to “justify’ being in the presence of so much pain and suffering (sin).

A way to “blame” others for what we are “forced” to do. It is an attempt to absolve ourselves as reacting to and not accepting responsibility (as humanity) for it.

It is unnecessary to establish a moral righteousness among nations.

Now we are intensifying it in Afganistan. Obama is telling us this is the “right” war.

Is it? I suggest it doesn’t matter, and is itself a distraction.

I would prefer a clear statement of our commitment, one that inspires us, aligns with who we are as a nation. Then we proceed to make it happen.

An attempt to debate what is right and wrong is cover for subterfuge. A false blustering, a shell game to hide the real intent in emotion and feelings of justification for “wrong” doing.

Another,

Your remark regarding what we did in Iraq, “We need only to declare ourselves as right, make friends with those who agree, make enemies of those who do not, and go about the business of it”, reminds me of a similar observation:

“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Herman Goering

Personally, I’d like a world guided by respect and cooperation. Insofar as God can help us achieve it, then God is a good guide. Unfortunately most stories about all the different gods tend to rest upon “our God helps us fight and win battles and wars, thus our God is powerful and authoritative and we must do what he says.” Until the world produces the right kind of “God”, or until the real God convincingly reveals his benevolence, we will continue suffering from wars created by the leaders who take us into them. I do not know how many wars God has prevented, but I know plenty where he is enlisted to serve, and has never once revealed himself to be a conscientious objector.

PossumGrapeLoveslies,

Important insight, I agree. Fear is one of the emotions directed into the mob, and leaders are knowledgeable in these ways and are tempted to using them.

Intersting thing about the mob though, we are it and it is of our own doing and our own responsibility.

I’ll repeat a quote that I appreciate from Kay in “Men in Black.”A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.”

If we only accepted this about ourselves, much difference could be made in the world. Every time we start to bolt, if we would just stop and see who is spooking the herd, and run them out of town, we would be better off for it.

Mr. Shah, your bio says you came to America 32 years ago. Where did you come from? Why do you stay here if you hate America so much? Do you think Iran is a better country?

p://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/2-iranian-women-arrested-for-converting.html

Do you support the murderous actions of the leaders of these Muslim countries such as Iran and Iraq?

There are a lot of people who lie and get away with it, and that’s just a fact.

~Donald Rumsfeld

Prophet Muhammad saying is above is a very wise truth that is also a known Christian truth. Christians would be wise to obey this truth that is taught also in our faith.

We would all have a better world here and now if both Christians and Muslims would obey the precepts of their faiths.

Lastly, it is ludicrous for Americans to think for one moment that Iraqi is in a better condition now that we have invaded Iraq and participated in the gruesome death of Saddam Hussein. Do they realize that today “No CHRISTIANS ARE ALLOWED and that they are all being murdered? Can Americans actually believe that that is success or democracy?