Peavy still out there, but do Cardinals have a shot?
With the continued uncertainty of Chris Carpenter for next year, it appears many of you aren’t satisfied with the top of the Cardinals’ rotation, other than Adam Wainwright. Jake Peavy, former Cy Young Award winner from San Diego, has an injury history of his own but also possesses one of the top arms in the game. The Cardinals should take a look there, but the Atlanta Braves, presumed to be out of the running, now may be back in the lead for Peavy. .
We’ll know more about Carpenter in a couple of weeks but we shouldn’t assume that all will be well. Lefthanded relievers and middle infielders still are the Cardinals’ priorities as we speak. I will try to post on Thursday and then will be out of town until Sunday evening. But send your questions and I’ll get to them when I return.
Q: Commish,
In regards to acquiring another big-name starting pitcher, I am baffled every time I hear Mozeliak say that we need to wait and see how available Carpenter will be. Why is that?
If Carp ends up being available, what would it hurt to have more than one dominant starter in the rotation? Isnʼt that what builds a championship team? Letʼs have 4 or 5 dominate arms!!
If Carp isnʼt available, then we would have that strong arm to fall back on. Please let me know where Iʼm going wrong here. I’m particularly curious as to what the rationale for this line of thinking is. Thanks!
A: Ben, It would make me nervous, too, waiting to see how Carpenter is, assuming that all the news is not going to be good. Now, I do consider Wainwright a top-of-the-line starter, but another quality arm wouldn’t hurt.
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Q: What if the Cardinals offered SD Skip Schumaker, Jon Jay, Brian Barden, Jess Todd, Mark Worrell,@ one more minor league pitcher for Peavy @ Greene?? Would that not be a good trade for both teams?? Better offer than the Braves??
WHY are the Cards not talking about Brian Barden for shortstop next year?? He was on Team U.S.A. with Bryan Anderson ?? Is Tyler Greene a year away or not looked at as a starting shortstop in the majors??
Will Allen Craig, David Freese,or Skip Schumaker play second base in winter ball???
A: Bryan, I would try for Peavy and/or Greene but if Jess Todd is as good as he is said to be, that would be a tough name to include. Some of those others named (Worrell, Jay, Barden, even Schumaker) would seem to have little appeal to San Diego.
Barden is viewed as little more than a utility infielder — I can’t tell you exactly why - but that’s the thinking in the organization. Tyler Greene is at least a year away, barely having played Class AAA ball. As for the last mentioned players, I don’t think any of them is in winter ball.
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Q: Now that the Cubs have re-signed Dempster, leaving the market for Peavy pretty slim, is there a chance you think the Cards might look at him again, and that the Padres might be willing to accept less in trade since no one else seems to be interested?
A: Susan, acquiring Peavy helps on one front — a No. 1 starter — but it doesn’t do anything for the bullpen, which needs the most immediate help, and middle infield. Look for the discussions between the Padres and Braves to heat up again, with Atlanta SS Escobar at the top of the list of players San Diego would want. This then would free up SS Khalil Greene, in whom the Cardinals might have interest.
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Q: Let’s assume the Cardinals will want protection for Chris Carpenter as the No. 5 starter. Do you think they are more apt to add a free agent the caliber of Braden Looper/Randy Wolf or give the opportunity to Kyle McClellan/Mitchell Boggs? How many years and how much money do you think Looper will command?
Your hot stove questions are a welcome addition.
Larry Harnly, Springfield, Ill.
A: Larry, good to hear from you again. Wolf would be perfect as a lefthanded starter but the prevailing sentiment is that Houston will re-sign him. It might be that Looper still would be available but Lowe-Burnett have to shake out first before it gets to Looper and others like Odalis Perez. Looper is hopeful of getting three years, I assume, but the I don’t think the Cardinals want to go there. McClellan would get the nod over Boggs, probably, as a starter, if the Cardinals were comfortable with their righthanded setup situation. They have to decide on Springer, Isringhausen and whether they think Kinney can help them.
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(9 votes, average: 4.56 out of 5)
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If Cardinals fans want to watch Jake Peavy pitch next year, the solution is to get a dish and subscribe to MLB Extra Innings. Or move to Atlanta, New York, or some other more verdant venue. Truth is, Chris Carpenter is more valuable to the Cardinals with a gimpy arm than he would be if healthy. Now the boys from DeWitt can say “we have to wait and see what the deal’s gonna be with Chris,” implying that there some chance that the Cy Young-winner of 2005 will magically re-materialize next year. If they had the real flesh and blood Chris Carpenter healthy and ready to play, they’d have to admit that 2005 was a long time ago, and people change–and after a certain age, that change is not often for the better. If the Cardinals ever get another ace, it will be a fluke draft pick (the “can’t miss” variety go to those above-cited verdant venues), a lucky free-agent signing (like Carpenter himself) or a waiver-wire miracle (sorry, no example of that to point to, but we’ve done very well salvaging some servicable arms off the wire, going all the way back to Curt Simmons). Them’s the facts, and we gotta live with ‘em.
Yeah…if Birds’ fans want to see Peavy pitch, get MLB.TV. It’s $100 bucks and you can watch any game you want over the hohonet. Plus they’ve got condensed games, highlight reels, contests and you can do as I did and watch teams like the Rays develop over a couple of years into WS contenders.
The real reason we won’t get Peavy is that it requires a trade and the Cards can’t(not won’t)provide what the Padres are seeking. Look at what they asked the Braves for, a low-cost ML starting shortstop,a low-cost ML starter, a top low-minors CF prospect and at least one other prospect. The Cards don’t have the first, the 2nd would have to be Wainwright or at least Wellmayer,the third would probably have to be Jones if not Rasmus. Assuming you could get the Padres to take a low-cost ML starting OF in place of a SS, the realistic deal the Cardinals would have to make is Ludwick, Wellmayer, Kozma and another prospect for Peavy. Greene would probably cost at least another player if not more. I feel this way too much for the Cards to give up even for a great player such as Peavy. It solves none of the Cards existing problems and creates at least one more
in replacing Ludwick’s power bat. You improve the top of the pitching
rotation for sure but you still have a hole at the bottom end with less
payroll flexiblity. My guess is that when the Cards inquired about Peavy
the Padres asked for Wainwright and the Cardinals quite rightly said ” no thanks”.
I don’t why anybody would want to put so many eggs in the fragile basket that Peavy has been. That’s a big chance to take imo.
It’d be better to take a shot and giving the money to Sabathia or trying to sign another of the top free agent pitchers and insuring them. That way the Cradinals can build up the system at the same time and make proper moves when needed. There is no reason the Cardinals should trade Jess Todd. He’s got the makings of being a top arm.
But the management owes the St. Louis fans for paying for their new building and for our loyal support. Oh and for the lack of development we were promised that will soon make us look like suckers in the national media come the middle of summer.
No on Peavy.
Giving away too much. What did Santana do for the Mets? What did Randy Johnson do for New York?
You don’t put all your eggs in one pitcher. (see Mulder, see Zito, see Sabathia, See Harden)
Cards (unlike the Rams), are a few good pieces away from contending.
Besides not having the major league ready starting pitching to trade, and not having the financial resources to pay Peavy, yeah, the Cardinals are right in it.
Seriously, the fans should have no suprise to the Cards upper and I mean upper management(both Detwits) care about the fans. They are a typical money hungry machine that plays with a baseball team, like we play with board games. They will never know how real Cards fans love the real American game, because they never probably grew up on the dirt fields that most did. Luhnow should be gone!!! Our pitching prospects are morbid,and our minor position playres are only good where players are a dime a dozen!!! So if I had enough money to afford season tickets, instead of supporting the Armani’s for all of the owners and the cute puppet Moz, I would maybe pick a new sport to watch. Shame on the owners for making John look like the bad guy, and shame on us for putting up with the upperclass stranglehold on a great baseball city. If they knew anything about baseball, they have had many years to build a farm system(which sucks). It is no suprise we can’t trade for anyone. Maybe and just maybe, they could listen to some of the fans concrens, before they check out their bank accounts!!!!!!!!!
If the Cardinals traded for Peavy that would tie up about 50mil into the starting rotation…management has already said they don’t want that much money tied up in the rotation….NO CHANCE THE CARDINALS ARE GETTING PEAVY!
The REASON the Cardinals keep saying that we are WAITING to see what’s up with Carpenter BEFORE we look at anyone else, is because of the CHEAPNESS of owner Bill DeWitt.
Any rational person knows that you don’t sideline a whiole team while you wait to hear about one pitchers arm. YOU MAKE CONTINGENCY PLANS!
It doesn’t make much sense for the Cardinals to keep focusing on their farm system so much if they’re not going to use these guys. McClellan, Boggs and Todd should be the top 3 candidates for the 5th starter. We don’t need Peavy. A lot of you guys would be amazed at how much help is on the way, if only we would give them a chance.
Q. Why is Kyle McClellan considered a better SP option than Mitchell Boggs? I understand that Boggs didnt fare well against the Mets, but his track record as a starter is much much better then Kyle McClellan. KMac has never started a baseball game above A ball. Maybe my opinion, but I believe Boggs is grossly underestimated in St. Louis.
Commish -
There are more reports that Roy Halliday may be available from Toronto. I know the contract is high, but really not much higher than Peavy. He also appears to have less of an injury history. I believe his contract is only for 2 more years, so the injury risk should be less. The front office always claims that the money is there for the right player, and I’m not sure you can get a better pitcher. Would the Cards be interested if the price wasn’t too great in terms of players/prospects?
Thanks
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
Why would the Cards brain trust, in their right minds, move Luddy? Thirty-seven HRs & 100+ RBIs is outstanding!
NO!
I believe it was between the 2004 and 2005 season that the cardinals traded one of there top pitching prospects (Dan Haren) for a top of the rotation pitcher (at that time) for Mark Mulder. AT THAT TIME that trade looked really great. 4 years later, not so much.
Would I love to have a pitcher of the quality of Jake Peavy on my team, yes, but not at the cost of loosing a top pitching prospect. There are definitly other options available on the market through less involvement in a trade, or through free agency where you don’t give up a prospect at all.
I don’t know about the rest of you cardinal fans out there, but I have been waiting for Chris Carpenter since Opening day 2007. 3 suguries in 2 years since, not the person I really think I can count on to be ready to go for opening day. Chris Carpenter IS a great cardinal and was a pleasure to watch, but untill he can prove he can pitch again at a high level, he CANNOT be counted on to lead the rotation.
Your Thoughts?
Oh and one more thing, for medallionV283.
Did you think it was a bad idea to trade Kent Bottenfield after ONE great season for Jim Edmonds.
It was fun to watch Ryan Ludwick do what he did this year, i am not denying that, but one year does not prove that a player can continue that success. Kent Bottenfield was gone after the year he was traded to the Angels. Jim Edmonds gave us all a life time of memories. Would I love to see Ryan Ludwick succeed with the Cardinals, absolutly, but being unproven, it is better to trade him for a proven player while his value is high.
The Cards need to use Whitey’s philosophy and get away from pitchers that routinely have arm problems. Peavy would be nice to have, but if he breaks down, which he probably would at one time or another, then the Cards are in the same boat. Give me another solid innings eater any day over someone who often gets hurt. Also, how close is Todd to making the rotation? Maybe we can do this in house. If Carp comes back that is a bonus, but I wouldn’t count on it. I’d also give Looper some serious consideration.
Ludwick is the real deal in a Cardinal uniform. I’ll say it this way; Unless he is traded, Ludwick will honor the birds on the bat with his play between the white lines. His work ethic will shadow Pujuls and he will continue to have a positive impact in the club house. Ludwick is good for the Cardinals and the Cardinals are good for Ludwick. He is the least of my concerns…because yes, I believe he will stay off the DL.
I wish for just once that we had a management team, that would not keep expecting the best for every injured player. Sometimes the worst does really happen(except maybe in Dewittland). Why are they even banking on Carpenter coming back healthy? In real life, if you have a problem you fix it! There are many players out there that can fix our problems, and they don’t have to be Hall of Famer’s. It is clear that we have to many outfielder’s. Lose Mather, Ankiel, Barton, and Duncan. Skip is a good hard nose ballplayer(good glove, speed, good average, good arm), Ludwick is cheap, and if Rasmus is what they want, then do it. Sign another outfielder to fill the gap, and quit having 8 different outfielders on the roster. Maybe get a reliever or 2. Also, Please quit dreaming for Carpenter’s miracle healing process(expect the worse).
The cards showed three disturbing trends last year. The inability to hold a lead, the inability to get a starter into the seventh, and the inability to score runs late in games. So the team should focus on these problems before they should spend big money on a starter. D. Goold says we only have around twenty one million so spend. That’s not a lot in today’s market. We need relievers, another starter and possibly a middle infield bat. We should be able to land a couple of free agent loogys and a Looper type starter. Then I’d like to see the team make a big play for Furcal. And it seems obvious that Mo will have to trade some outfielders. Still, it’s a big job to fill all those holes.
Commish - do you see the cards signing ANY front line free agent, and if so who?
Gotta love the trade offers people come up with that they expect teams to bite on. “How about Schumaker, Barden, McCormick, LaRue, Miles and Worrell for Peavy. Get it done Mo! No reason for it not to happen”. Some people are clueless.
If the Braves @ SD do make the Peavy deal @ shortstop Escobar is traded to SD,that means the Braves 2nd baseman Johnson is off the trade market. Who will the Cards look at then as the middle infielders they most want??
Who do you thank the Cardinals need at short @ second for the 09 season to make the playoffs?? We need 1 more big bat. With OUT trading Ludwick!!! Any free agents big bats the Cardinals are looking at ??Any trades for a big bat the Cards are looking at??
If SD does get Escobar what player or players would it take for the Cards to get Greene??
Any chance we can get Jose Valverde from the Astros i here they want to trade him??
I live in san diego and watch peavy pitch quite often. guys and gals, there is no better arm in the nl i’d rather see in a cardinals uniform. the guy is the real deal. the padres are terrible, just look at the era. i hear ya on the bullpen, but if theres a chance to get him…do it.
What ever happened to second baseman Josh Barfield of the Padres?? I know he was traded to the Indians for third baseman Kevin Kouzmanoff. Barfield was going to be a star at second base,GOOD hitter for years to come. What happened to him??
Would the Cardinals be interested in going after Javier Vazquez from the Chicago White Sox in a possible trade, considering his subpar year.
With our abundance of outfielders to send their way it seems worthy.
I have to believe that the Cards won’t bring in big name talent because of the discounted rate they get Albert at. There is no way he’ll ever be the second highest paid player on the team and he’s not getting half the money he could be getting. So we won’t be seeing a clean up hitter, big name closer, or a top of the line starting pitcher until the Cards can put a real contract on the table without ruffling feathers.