Sooner we lose exclusionist attitude, the better off America will be
In regards to, âWe’ve drifted from founders’ vision of religious freedom” by Colleen Carroll Campbell 11/01/2007.
In Mrs. Campbell’s diatribe she calls those of us Americans who fight for enforcement of the first amendment ârevisionist historians”, sadly I think this statement is a clear case of projection as she is the one practicing revisionist history. Obviously because of a deep desire to see the favoritism of religion over non-religion, specifically Christianity, she skews the meaning of the first amendment and the founding fathers intention to fit her agenda.
One does not only need to cite President Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptist church where he states, âI contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” We can also look to the Treaty Of Tripoli, Article 11 where it is stated, “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” This document was signed by President John Adams and his secretary of state as well as ratified unanimously by congress.
What Mrs. Campbell fails to realize is that strict enforcement of the establishment clause protects everyone, including the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims and the non-believers. By not endorsing ANY religion at all everyone is free to worship and follow as they wish. If a majority of this nation converted to a religion Mrs. Campbell disagrees with and began to endorse only activities related to the practice of said religion, she almost certainly would be open and receptive towards strict enforcement of the constitution, and surely she would have every right to feel her personal freedoms were being infringed upon.
Any time a moment of silence, with prayer implicitly implied, is instituted in a school it favors belief over non-belief, any time a Christmas carol is sung in a classroom it favors Christianity over all other religions, and any time a ten commandments monument is placed in a public square it favors those who follow the bible over those who do not. This country’s founders had the foresight to see such intermingling of religion and government could cause great harm to those who are on the outside of the “majority’, and these founders themselves got the will to fight for their independence from the unwillingness to follow the status quo.
Mrs. Campbell needs to revisit the history classroom and read the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the Treaty of Tripoli and the letter to the Danbury Baptist church without the cloudiness of her “Christian’ glasses, because the founders made clear their true intent in these documents. America is not a Christian nation and as soon as we can lose this exclusionist attitude the better we can understand the rest of the world.
Brian Holtkamp
Imperial
Nice try, Brian. Very nice. You use a letter that is in no way connected to the Constitution of the US. One founding father’s view does not an implication make. The words “Separation between Church and State” are nowhere in the Constitution, but I guess the Danbury letter is in your view, an immaculate ammendment. You quickly forget George Washington’s views about America and God. When 80% of Americans view themselves as Christians, I’d say that’s basically the makeup of our great nation. You so wrongly take the view of 11% of the population (atheists) to override the others. I guess we are also a gay nation in your view since 12% is gay. Funny how when Clinton didn’t receive but 40% of the popular vote, he had a mandate. When Bush won over 50%, he didn’t. Let’s have a vote. Ask the American public if they want to remove the federal holiday of Christmas. The results will not be to your liking, I’m sure. That will tell you about our great Christian country. Many of these people may not be regular church-goers, but why do they turn out in droves on CHRISTMAS? Because their Christians! Cite the Crusades as your proof of religion gone crazy 1000 years ago and I’ll cite the jihadists (people you probably enjoy) still living in the 7th century who are hard at work right now.
Ms. Campbell is a clear reminder that part of the deal our Founding Fathers
made regarding religion is the freedom from the unwanted imposition of
faith on those who so choose. To borrow from the Scripture, she should
render her own heart, and not her garments in a public display(and imposition) on the rest of us.
Bryan - I’d like to give you a little history lesson. Do you know who celebrated Christmas 200 years ago? Drunken hooligans. And some Catholics. But mostly drunken hooligans. Christmas was essentially a boisterous celebration by German immigrants, and many pious hotbeds of evangelical Christianity banned the celebration of Christmas because they thought such a holiday was un-Christian. Today’s warm and fuzzy “family friendly” version of Christmas basically sprang up at the end of the 19th century, when department stores and other commercial venues needed some excuse to get end of the year profits.
Here’s another fact for you: the men who were most instrumental in the creation our Constitution were not Christians, but Deists. They believed in the existence of a higher power, but believed that humans could not comprehend this power’s nature or character. You, my friend, are either ignorant or arrogant if you choose to ASSUME that someone is Christian merely because they believe in the supernatural.
Bob,
I know history. I got my history lesson before they turned it into historionics, which is what you are trying to indoctrinate others into believing. Next you’ll be telling me that Lincoln was planning to send the slaves back to Africa and that Reagan really didn’t win the Cold War. Belief in an existence of a higher power and not being able to comprehend what it means is the essence of religion, my friend. People who believe in ESP and global warming alarmists are way more religious about it than Christians are about their maker and they know far less about it than Christians. But when the huge majority of Americans who believe that Jesus “Christ” is our savior, I take that as them being Christian. You showed your atheist card at the end of your screed when you used the word “supernatural”. Yoda might have said, “Slip out the secrets of the Dark Side always do.” By the way, drunken hooligans are still invited to celebrate Christmas with us Christians. So ironic that it was a drunken hooligan (Ulysses S. Grant) who signed the federal Christmas holiday into law. “Family friendly” must be a swear word to you guys because it’s the main reason the words “Merry Christmas” and the decorations in the public square have been banned. Please don’t allow “Family friendly” holidays. It might slow the social decay your ilk desperately await.
Bryan-
Hopefully you’re not a betting man, because you’re way off the mark. “Supernatural” implies something that exists beyond the capacity of humans to study through natural sciences. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don’t believe me, fine.
Bryan-
Hopefully you’re not a betting man, because you’re way off the mark. “Supernatural” implies something that exists beyond the capacity of humans to study through natural sciences. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don’t believe me, fine. If you want to believe that people have believed for the past 2000 years that Christ was born on December 25, go for it. After all, if enough 80% of Americans believe it, then it must be true. Nevermind that the traditional celebration of Christ’s birth was the feast of the epiphany, AND it was far more likely that Christ was born some time in July. You wouldn’t want the truth to get into the way of things.
Bryan (10
“You so wrongly take the view of 11% of the population (atheists) to override the others.”
Bryan I don’t know when or where you studied history or political science or even basic junior high civics, but you don’t know a thing about the constitution. By such a foolish statement you show that you do not understand that the constitution assures religious freedom to all of us by assuring religious freedom to each of us. There is no such thing as power of the majority when it comes to individual rights. Your demonstrated ignorance of this truth will forever prohibit you from understanding the true beauty and wisdom of our government and our country.
Way to go, Bryan with a “y”. I wondered how long it would take someone to bring out the old chestnut “but it’s not in the Constitution”!
Guess what else isn’t in the Constitution? Abortion, speed limits, e-mail, ecclesiastical pederasty, a definition of marriage and many, many other words and phrases. Does that make these things non-existant?
Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence years before the Constitution was adopted, so I believe his words and letters can attest to “intent”. His letter to the Danbury (Connecticut) Baptist Association (1802) referring to “a wall of separation between Church and State” was written before the Supreme Court’s power of judicial review was confirmed in 1803.
The concept was reinforced in 1947 by Justice Black’s decision in Everson v. Board of Education. “In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect “a wall of separation between church and state.”
A Supreme Court ruling in 1971 provided tests to decide the constitutionality of any law that has a religious issue: the law must be secular, it must be neutral regarding religion and cannot result in entanglements between the government and religion.
A phrase may not exist in our Constitution but through amendments, judicial decisions and legislation, “intent” is clarified into the law of the land.
Maybe it’s time for a new Constitutional Amendment or two: add the separation of church and state and an additional amendment to abolish the Electoral College (chew on that one for a while).
#4, Bryan, here is something you apparently are not aware of: Lincoln did have a plan to send slaves back to Africa. It was called “Repatriation”, and was seriously considered up to, and during, the early part of Civil War. I recommend you read “Lincoln”, by David Herbert Donald. As far as Reagan and the Cold war, well there was also John Paul 2, the Polish people, Vaclav Havel and many, many others.
Nobody is playing history revisionist here, just being intellectually honest.
Bush didn’t get 50 percent of the vote …
Maybe that’s the “faith” part, eh?