Good point, Dan. Sad that it needs to be made, but a very good point. Somebody should tell Cookie’s brother about this concept.

dunno i think your seeing a broad spectrum frustration with civil liberties and personal rights being stripped away… and that what we are witnessing is the beginning of the end. Its only a matter of time before municipalities and law makes across the board have everything buttoned down so tight that revolution will occur. its how we started and it might be how we end. sad to say that things can’t be talked out and even sadder to see the events of Kirkwood play out the way they did. But everyone has a button that can be pushed. and that button will throw them over the line. I’m sure i could easily push somebody with words alone to the point the would seriously consider off’in me.

you know making a law to stop at an intersection is a lot different than making a law telling a business man that they will have to take a 30-50% drop in business (cough cough non smokers) when it should be there right to decide. and for the people who the laws are being made for just remember after they get down with one group the will target another and another sooooo maybe we should really think twice about what is a fair and sensible law and what is a civil right binding stipulation of existence.

i grieve for those who perished in Kirkwood, and would not insult them by saying i pray for them or their families. i might not be praying to the same god.

may there anguish pass quickly and the memories last forever.

very good post dan

Or when the citizens of your state vote against a conceal and carry law, but yet somehow the legislature ignores the people and implements one.

Or when the citizens approved Stem Cell research funding, across the board, but the legislature decides that the voters were misled and that we widdle thinking people are just to dumb to know what we want and take every opportunity to limit the law are to repeal it.

Yeah, I can see how some people get fed up when their elected leaders go against the will, the voice, of the majority of the people.

Paul R., #3, you made some great points! Excellent posting.

I can’t get my way, I’m mad at the process, I’m wrong and they are right but I don’t care, so I get to kill someone????? Maybe Darwin was right.

not about right or wrong

my friends always ask me why we are here my answer to them has always been
“god doesn’t like a back without a front and up without a down evil with out good, in the universe there is structre and order and we are the one true chaotic element that defines this.”

nothing about us is truly predictable. when you have instinct and then place all the rule in direct opposition to that instinct you get chaos. problem is we try to quantify everything into black and white when everyone knows the human condition is many overlapping shades of gray. this leads to a frustration when people in power automatically lump people into into these black and white catagories, this is why its so important to have a certain amount of liberty.

we need to quit teaching our children that what they want they can have no matter what the cost to the next man, instead we should be teaching tolerance and sharing. perhaps much of the kirkwood incident would have been handle differently if both sides were a little more tolerant and aware of each others positions.

who knows i just think were doing things wrong but for some reason we keep heading the same direction
i dont know all i can say is i dont understand

Excellent letter, Dan!

To bryan e. - I don’t understand what your point is. Frustration is not justification for murder. Are we supposed to “tolerate” and “understand” lawbreakers just to keep them from killing us in a fit of frustration and rage? Is that what you’re trying to say?

i agree frustration is not a justification for murder. but if a person isn’t taught how to deal with frustration correctly …AND the person who is frustrating a person is not aware of the unique perspective of an individual and makes no attempt to understand there frustration or take any step w/ in reason to alleviate, the reason, you have the potential for a powder keg situation. i’m just saying that all around.. the events of Kirkwood seem to be more a symptom of a larger problem than the actual.

QUOTE
Are we supposed to “tolerate” and “understand” lawbreakers just to keep them from killing us in a fit of frustration and rage?
END QUOTE

was the shooter a heinous murderer or egregious law breaker prior to the shooting?
he was a business man who was getting pushed around by an unsympathetic bureaucracy. as much as you condemn this man. yes he had some MINOR legality violations. i dont think this is enough to quantify a person as a homicidal maniac.

yes you have to tolerate and be understanding to all individuals. its yours and mine duty as a human being. the mentality you express in your statement makes my point. you have already condemned a person before they have done anything, don’t know about you, but i choose to love my fellow man and give them the chance to make their mistake instead of condemning them before they do.

basically all i am saying way back to my original point. is that this i fear is a growing problem. and that we are just looking at the tip of the iceberg. i think it could be diffused, or taken to a more controllable level with some compassion and courtesy. which for anyone who drives in this town knows courtesy is almost non existent here. whats wrong with courtesy, compassion tolerance, and understanding, of our fellow man.

“was the shooter a heinous murderer or egregious law breaker prior to the shooting?
he was a business man who was getting pushed around by an unsympathetic bureaucracy. as much as you condemn this man. yes he had some MINOR legality violations. i dont think this is enough to quantify a person as a homicidal maniac.”

But he sure was a homicidal maniac, wasn’t he? Until recently, I was a single mom who was *just* over the threshold to receive any sort of financial assistance. I was in a constant battle (and still am, actually) of trying to receive the child support due to me. I’ve had my fair share of bureaucratic slow-downs and hangups. And I was actually following the rules. I wasn’t breaking any laws. Talk about frustration!

So, did I drive down to the social services office and shoot my caseworker, his manager and anyone standing in my way? Nope.

excellent point michelle you prove exactly what im saying under a non tolerance system the second you even twitched wrong we should throw you heiny in the can cause you might get the right button pushed and become a homicidal maniac. but the big difference here to me is you seem to have been brought up with some ethical values and resposibility and not so much of a me me me thought process. btw hope things go well on getting DBD child support, that in it self is a sad situation that people have to deal with.

quote
So, did I drive down to the social services office and shoot my caseworker, his manager and anyone standing in my way? Nope.
end quote

under your thought process you left out a key word YET, they way you project your opinion is that people who come against frustration and show any aggrivation with a situation are possible HM’s. so would you really like someone pointing a finger at you at this point and saying okay time to keep an close eye on here she might go balistic and start killing people.

you may say that you would never do that, but im sure if you asked mister thornton before he did it, he too would have said he would never really do it.

anyways im done with this debate again dan good post and michelle i will cross my finger for you and wish you best of luck with the stuff going on wit ya. peace friends catch ya all on the next topic.