Tax and ban, people still will smoke
It seems as if every day, there is another community, group, organization, or individual complaining about cigarette smoke and those who do smoke. It doesn’t matter how many times the government raises the taxes in the name of “child welfare”, people are still going to smoke. There was a big sigh of relief when the money from the casinos was going to help pay for health care and education. What happened to that? Another when the tobacco companies were ordered to pay the states enormous amounts of money to pay for health care. What happened to that? The taxes on cigarettes is raised about every six years. What happens to that? The same thing that happens to every tax the government tells the people what the money is ear marked for, it goes to special projects or causes other than what it was intended for. Does anyone actually believe this tax money will all go to health care for children? What happened to the money Barack Obama promised the states to help pay for health care? Where is that money?
The government, businesses, self righteous groups who think they are going to save and change the world, and petty individuals who have nothing else to do but worry about what other people are doing with their lives, cigarette smoking or something else, have to stop “depending” on the cigarette smokers to fund their agendas.
You are going to have to look at other “vices” people have in order to manufacture your perfect world. Restaurants and bars want to ban smoking in their establishments, because they don’t sell cigarettes, they sell food, beer, and alcohol. But, if there was an increase in the taxes on beer and alcohol, their customers would stop ordering drinks. If there was a doubling of the fees for their license to sell alcohol, they would be crying or quit serving drinks. Then how many customers would they have? Not too many.
You can get off work, or get ready to go anywhere or any open air event, stop at the gas station and buy a case of beer, for about sixteen dollars. The tax on your gas is not as high as a pack of cigarettes. The tax on beer is not as high as a pack of cigarettes.
One bottle of beer cost a customer, wholesale, about eighty cents. Then they charge you, their loyal and good customers, anywhere from two dollars to seven fifty at a Cardinals game, but you cannot sit at their bar, which was built for customers to sit at and drink, and smoke a cigarette and have a conversation while you wait for a table at their over priced, and over rated restaurant. And god forbid you would smoke in an open air ballpark.
Your money and your business is good enough for them as long as they call the “shots.”
Again, figure the math. Twenty four bottles of beer in a case. Add another fifty cents per bottle to the serving cost, that’s another twelve dollars a case the government would receive in taxes. How many cases of beer are being sold at the Cardinal, Rams, and Blues games? How many cases of beer are being sold at all the bars and restaurants downtown before and after each game? With an additional fifty cents in government taxes added to each bottle, that’s a lot of money and would take care of a lot of medical care “for children”. What ever it ends up to be, it would be more than what is collected on cigarettes. But, does anyone think this would actually happen? The civic leaders would say this would drive tourists away, the bars and restaurants would lose business, and people would lose their jobs. There’s always an excuse or explanation.
So, the cigarette smokers are being ostracized and their habit is the only logical choice, the only viable choice, and the only rational choice to tax.
Many low income people smoke. The first of April, their tax relief was to kick in and they will be allowed to take home an additional fifteen dollars a week in their paychecks. That will just about cover the tax increase they have just received for one of the small pleasures they enjoy in life, smoking. Maybe it’s time for an elected representative of the people to speak up and say something. Maybe it’s time for one of them to come up with someone else to tax other than cigarette smokers, or are the lobbyists spending too much money on capital hill?
These communities and businesses who want to ban smoking, that’s fine. If I come, and believe me with this economy it will not be very often, I will not buy a beer at your bar. I will not buy my friends a drink in your establishment. I will order my food, drink water, leave a tip, and go somewhere I can smoke a cigarette, have a good conversation, and drink my drink. To these civic leaders who want to ban smoking in their communities, If I have to buy gas, beer, or anything else, I will go to those communities who do not have their nose in the air. Cigarette smokers are consumers too. Not all our money is spent on cigarettes, but I’ll be damned if I am going to take responsibility for someone’s children. If I wanted kids, I would have made sure I could provide for and take care of them, not ask other people to do it for me. So, the government can add taxes to one of my little vices, people can complain, and communities, businesses, bars and restaurants can tell us we cannot smoke. But that will just stop me from coming to your community, your restaurants, businesses, and bars and spending my money. I can stay home, not fight the traffic, pay for parking, wait for a table or use the restroom, have my friends over, watch the game on t.v., put something on the grill, and smoke. Just like the Great American Smoke Out, there should be one day across the country when cigarette smokers do not buy cigarettes.
Jim Kozlowski
St. Louis
Jim,
While I agree it is not the governments job to protect us from ourselves, the difference between your vice and those of drinkers is that you force those around to participate in yours. You cannot smoke without forcing those in the same room to do the same. I believe it should be up the the individual business owner to allow smoking or not. I for one will vote with my wallet. I will not patronize any establishment that allows smoking. If every one would do the same, instead of whining to government at all levels, we would all live in a much better country.
Harry Belli, owner of Harry’s West in Ballwin, just wrote to Mayor Goldstein and the Clayton Board of Aldermen detailing the economic hardship the Ballwin smoking ban caused his business. Here is a key passage from his letter:
“Subsequent to the smoking ban, Harry’s West lost between 10% and 15% of our revenue within the first 30 days. That was $2000-$2500 per week or approximately $130,000 per year. What kind of financial slope would the City of Clayton be in if it were to lose 10% to 15% of it’s tax base? I can assure you that it is not a good position to be placed in. We could not overcome that loss and eventually closed the Restaurant. We employed 40 people that lost their jobs and the City of Ballwin lost tax revenues. However, I am sure that the surrounding municipalities enjoyed their windfall. We were definitely not the only dining establishment to close their doors and to my knowledge, no restaurants and bars are eager to open in Ballwin.”
— Bill Hannegan
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Your post about Harry’s has been debunked several times on these PD boards.
Still, you chose to post it again.
With your agenda you have demonstrated your willingness to not take responsibility for your actions that endanger innocents nearby.
.
Posters beware the content of Bill Hannegan on smoking
All Bill’s so called facts, are cherry picked and have been debunked previously.
Sorry STL, but Mr. Hannegan is correct. I also know of several restaurants in the Columbia area that have folded up due to the loss of revenue connected to local smoking ordinances. I wish it were not so.
MO as a state needs to go smoke free, that is for darn sure. Is there a website that lists which STL restaurants and bars are smoke free? I can’t take it anymore, and would love to know which places I should patronize and which I shouldn’t, BEFORE I go contract lung cancer at a smoking joint.
Logan,
Yes, there is a directory. Here is the link:
http://www.tobaccofreemo.org/documents/SFGSTL%20Directory.pdf
I certainly can not speak for the accuracy of it, but it seems very complete and detailed. Of course, call ahead to see if the policy is still in place. Please, frequent businesses that do not allow smoking!
I believe it should be up the the individual business owner to allow smoking or not. I for one will vote with my wallet. I will not patronize any establishment that allows smoking. If every one would do the same, instead of whining to government at all levels, we would all live in a much better country.
— James R
7:37 pm April 3rd, 2009
That is what normally would happen in a free country.
Instead of worrying about smoking in business establishments, let’s focus that energy on the mentally deficient parents that smoke in their cars while the little ones are strapped safely in their booster seats in the back. That seems much more harmful than someone inhaling restaurant air for a couple hours a week in a smoke filled building.
— Amazedbythelunacy
“Instead of worrying about smoking in business establishments, let’s focus that energy on the mentally deficient parents that smoke in their cars while the little ones are strapped safely in their booster seats in the back. That seems much more harmful than someone inhaling restaurant air for a couple hours a week in a smoke filled building.”
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Sorry, smoking in business establishments still puts innocents at risk. Stop it immediately. It’s a real health concern.
.
A good point about parents and smoking in cars with kids. My link says it’s even worse on kids than adults because their bodies are still developing. Probably not much we can do about parents smoking in private confined areas with their kids except education.
http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.39857/
Sorry, smoking in business establishments still puts innocents at risk. Stop it immediately. It’s a real health concern.
.
A good point about parents and smoking in cars with kids. My link says it’s even worse on kids than adults because their bodies are still developing. Probably not much we can do about parents smoking in private confined areas with their kids except education.
http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.39857/
— STL
10:16 am April 6th, 2009
Uh you have a choice on whether or not to enter an establishment where smokers are present. A CHOICE!!!
A child in the back seat of their Marlboro puffin parents have NO CHOICE.
Are you that blind not to see the difference?
Jim
I agree with most of what you have here. There currently are many restaurants and other places declared off limits to smoking. I personally won’t ever be attending Cardinals games and actually thank them for making the stadium smoke free, it’s just another reason NOT to drive there.
As for James R and his assumption that drinkers don’t force their vice onto others, tell that to anyone who has been hit by a drunk. Gee wasn’t it a former Ram a few years back just about took out an entire family one drunk night? Nah, drinking never hurt anyone. And for all the people that claim, “I don’t drive drunk when I have kids in the car.” You realize you are too drunk and won’t take your kids but you’ll still risk my kids and everyone else’s kids, there’s none lower than you.
One other think I might add to this, we smokers have been paying taxes on cigarettes for years. The government sued tobacco companies to pay for medical expenses related to tobacco. I could live with that verdict but WHAT did the government do with all the tax money they collected over the years?