One bill could destroy the quality of life and jobs in most of America
Perhaps the most destructive legislation in our country’s history will soon be voted on in the United States House of Representatives – the Waxman/Markey Tax Bill in the guise of addressing climate change. It will have adverse and lingering consequences for every American. It will raise the cost of electricity in our homes, the fuel for our cars, and the energy which produces our manufacturing jobs, with little or no environmental benefit. Further, independent experts estimate that it will cost Americans more than $2 trillion in just over eight years. All Americans in the Midwest, South and Rocky Mountain regions will be most drastically affected because the climate change legislation will destroy the nation’s coal industry and the low-cost electricity it has provided to these regions for generations. Wealth will be transferred away from almost every state to the West coast and New England.
The most abundant and by far least expensive energy source in our country for generating electricity is coal. America’s coal reserves rival the energy potential of Saudi Arabian oil. Unfortunately, the proposed climate change legislation in the House of Representatives, the Waxman/Markey Bill, forces America to throw away this tremendous resource, and our low cost electricity with it.
The legislation sets an unattainable cap on carbon dioxide emissions by 2020, with the first reductions due by 2012. Under the program, businesses that emit carbon dioxide would be required to purchase or obtain from the government special carbon dioxide credits. This carbon dioxide cap will force utilities to switch from lower cost coal to natural gas or other more expensive energy sources. Reliable estimates show that this bill will cost each American family at least $3,000 more for energy each year. The chief executive of one of the nation’s major utilities recently said it best in the Wall Street Journal stating, “The 25 states that depend on coal for more than 50 percent of their electricity…will have to shut down and replace the majority of their fossil fuel plants as a result of the climate change legislation.”
The supporters of this ill-conceived legislation point to two provisions that they claim will help coal. The first is that they give electric utilities free credits. However, those credits are worth millions of dollars, and the utilities will be free to sell the credits and use the proceeds to build more expensive natural gas or nuclear power plants, and not use our lowest cost fuel – coal. Second, the authors of the legislation invest money in carbon capture and storage technology, claiming that this will save jobs. But, this technology will not be commercially available for at least 15 to 20 years, long after the reductions are required in 2012 and long after our coal plants are shut down and our manufacturing jobs are exported to China, India and other countries. All of these countries have stated that they will not place any restrictions on carbon dioxide emissions. China alone, which has surpassed the United States in carbon dioxide emissions, brings a new 500-megawatt coal-fired power plant on line every week. They will have low cost electricity and America will massively export more jobs to them.
It is not too late to tell Congress to kill this flawed bill. Everyone should call your representative in Congress and ask him or her to vote NO on the Waxman/Markey climate bill (otherwise known as cap and tax) and support affordable energy, American jobs and our quality of life.
Robert E. Murray
Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer
Murray Energy Corporation
Do you know that the concept for Cap and Trade is a free market idea to limit pollution? Wouldn’t it make sense to convert pollution into a commodity and have natural supply and demand pressures determine the price and consequences for an industrial company?
Unfortunately Cap and Trade only makes sense if the entire world subscribes to and enforces the standard. Like other well meaning bills this would only lead to terrible economic consequences for the entire country. Why wouldn’t a company re-locate to another region with no pollution standards? If fact wouldn’t they have duty to their shareholders to do that?
Aren’t we are fed up with these well intended laws that lead to economic chaos? Examples - MediCare and the Fair Credit Act. We should be looking for less government not more. I agree with Mr. Murray and will be contacting my Congressman to vote No on the half-baked bill!
Climate change is the biggest scam and joke put out there for the American People. Unfortunately, there are entirely too many people who actually fall for this stuff. The politicians have to be laughing their butts off.
Nothing but Amazing!
—Tomorrow, Nancy Pelosi is going to try to push this through by promising the moon to anybody who votes for it. Previously, TARP legislation was passed unread and with unaccounted cost estimates.
—This will be the first piece of legislation that is brought to the table that is not even WRITTEN yet, much less read by legislators, or cost accounting submitted.
—If this happens, and I believe it will fail as too many centrist dems are wavering, none can even predict the catastrophic economic entanglements.
—Is this because of liberal ignorance, or perhaps something more sinister?
Mr. Murray, Your last paragraph “…this flawed bill…” intentionally or otherwise suggests that with some tweaking (perhaps heavy tweaking), it could be redeemed. I’m not picking on you, but the supposed defenders of energy (and modernity) that kind of push climate-control-lite.
It’s not “let’s be reasonable and meet half way” or “let’s tackle this practically or pragmatically”; it is: this entire environmentalist movement, everything it stands for, all of the suffering they worship is utter evil, anti-reason, anti-west, pro-stone-age nonsense unfit for life on earth. Until you are willing to defend power (power of motors, rather than the yoke of a mule if these people get their way), you (and I) are doomed. In any argument, the more consistent side ultimately wins out. The Left is hard core consistent, the Right is mealy-mouthed; who’s gonna buy that?
Flawed!!!!! That’s an understatement to say the least. This whole fiasco is another non-transparent piece of Pelosi BS that will be hopefully dead on arrival.
If China is bringing so many coal plants online, doesn’t that mean coal will not remain cheap for long and we should get off it quickly?
Which provision of the bill has the “unattainable cap on carbon dioxide emissions by 2020″? Looks like the cap is set by regulation and has not been determined yet.
Egoist–
The all or nothing metality is what cost the “right” the last election.
What no one is talking about, whether it is energy executives or anyone else is the dirtiest little secret there is:
The nation’s electric generating, transmission, and distribution infrastructure is reaching the end of it’s useful life. It’s not a stretch to suggest that $Trillions will need to be spent over the next 20 years on the next generation system. No matter how you slice it, the money has to be spent, and, ultimately, we the people have to pay it.
The discussion that SHOULD be happening, is not happening. Ultimately, what is the best future system that can be built, because whatever it is, we’re going to be stuck with it for the next 30-50 years at minimum. That this day of reckoning has been coming for a long time has been known by many. No one has dared to admit it, though. It’s time. There is no perfect system, no one solution, and no free lunch.
HKCHAS - John McCain, for example? You must be kidding.
Once again the flat-earthers want us to put all of our eggs in one basket. Oil is a FINITE resource. Coal is a FINITE resource…unless one can wait around millions of years for more to form (but wait, the world is universe is only 5000 years old so how can it be millions of years for coal and oil to be produced…oh, the humanity). NOW is the time (actually decades ago) was the time to invest in renewable energies. Yes, the upfront cost is significant, but in the long run, the US will be better situated to remain a world power as we won’t be dependant on foreign sources of energy. The sun isn’t going anywhere, wind isn’t going anywhere, bio-thermal isn’t going anywhere…these are replenihsable resources. In 50 years with an energy independent America, talk to me then about how we can’t afford these initiatives now. Either we do it now or do it when our backs are really against the wall.
An amusing side note: The reason speaker Pelosi is pushing to have this bill rammed through today…..so she can go on vacation. Yes, this global-warming hysteric will tell us this bill is vital for our survival and when she is finished will hop on a plane to San Francisco.
Hey Not So SuperDave…..where did you get your research and science degree? Yep, just like I thought. You don’t have one. Let’s listen to Rush and Bill instead of intelligent research. You are the fool. So, shudup and keep homeschooling while your wife and you suck off the public school paycheck teet.
Egoist–
Exactly, all you right wing flat earthers wouldn’t vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough for your tastes so you got Obama, which of those two choices was CLOSER to what you wanted. Again and again the Limbaugh/Hannity Right wing of the Republican party say they would rather have NOTHING and complain than something, with a chance of getting more.
If the new survey is true and a large number of folks declare themselves as conservative, you’d have been in postion to take back both houses, instead of just fighting among yourselves to decide if the philander, the sex tourist, or the pardoned criminal represent your party.
You throw out the generals, and keep the draft dodgers.
HKCHAS
Do you mean like the draft dodger Slick Willy?
All the right has to do, is set back and let the dems continue down the road of this country’s destruction, just like in the Jimmy Carter years.
What is going to take for you to see what is happening?
Double digit unemployment?
Double digit intrest rates?
Double digit inflation?
Becoming a 3rd rate nation?
Oh my God!!! It’s the end of the world! The sky is falling! We are doomed! Yes guys and gals, the bill passed. Let’s all in our Limbaugh Lemming like way protest this by jumping off the Eads. In fact, if you bring your teabags we can make it a 2fer. Mr. Murray, lead the way.
Regardless of science we are making a huge mistake thinking that government can fix anything! As history so frequently reminds us - technological advancements are far more powerful than any goofy bill that congress passes! Y’all are making a huge mistake turning this into a political discussion. Again, shouldn’t we be looking for ways to make government smaller?
HKCHAS - “Exactly, all you right wing flat earthers wouldn’t vote for McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough…”
I’m not right wing (nor center, nor left) - I don’t fit in this little spectrum that’s been cut out containing altruists from one end to the other. And, if it needs clarification, McCain wasn’t pro-individual-rights enough (or at all).
You guys got your bill. I suggest you practice by turning the A/C off for a few days.
Okay libs, you got your global warming bill through and to hear and read all of you left wingers, this is going to save us from ourselves, creat jobs, blah blah blah…
Tell me, if this is such a great thing, why are so did so many dems in the house vote against the bill so they could increase the reelection chances? It seems to me that if a bill is so damn good, it would be a sin not to vote for it.
Lisa, Hchas bob, why are so many voting against this wonderful legislation that “ONCE AGAIN, IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT NO ONE WAS ABLE TO READ IT”.
Try to be serious just once, how P.O’d would you be if the Republicans pulled crap like this? Only idiot libs would go for this…I did not read it so I should not be held accountable.
Egoist - you are right. I think the lefties should show us the way an turn their AC’s off for good. My god, we are talking about saving the planet! What is wrong with you, but I am sure this will be spun that only AC’s in homes that do not support the Messiah are a waste of energy like how Unions health care will not be taxed…
I will ask again for the libs to explain why so many are worried. It just does not make sense. How can these idiots be part of the democrat party if they are not total believers?
Story:
Democrats narrowly passed historic climate and energy legislation Friday evening that would transform the country’s economy and industrial landscape.
But the all-hands-on-deck effort to protect politically vulnerable Democrats by corralling the minimum number of votes to pass the bill, 219-212, proves that there are limits to President Barack Obama’s ability to use his popularity to push through his legislative agenda. Forty-four Democrats voted against the bill, while just eight Republicans crossed the aisle to back it.
Despite the tough path to passage, the legislation is a significant win for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Ca.) and the bill’s two main sponsors – House Energy and Commerce committee chairman Henry Waxman (D-Ca.) and Massachusetts Rep. Edward Markey (D) – who modified the bill again and again to get skeptical members from the Rust Belt, the oil-producing southeast and rural Midwest to back the legislation.
Hey that refinery just across the river?
Those few billions Conoco Philips was starting to spend in our region, providing real jobs- jobs tied to that evil petroleum. Now that the House passed that bill Friday- you can kiss them good bye!
Under the Waxman-Markey climate bill, refiners would have to buy allowances for carbon dioxide spewed from their plants and from vehicles when motorists burn their fuel. Imports would need permits only for the latter, which ConocoPhillips Chief Executive Officer Jim Mulva said would create a competitive imbalance.
“It will lead to the opportunity for foreign sources to bring in transportation fuels at a lower cost, which will have an adverse impact to our industry, potential shutdown of refineries and investment and, ultimately, employment,” Mulva said in a June 16 interview in Detroit. Houston-based ConocoPhillips has the second-largest U.S. refining capacity.
Nice going- the job losses have already started.
Pull out your current electric bill and note its amount. Put it aside, and compare it in 3 years to what you are charged then. Then add in the increased gasoline costs you pay, the higher grocery costs (oh I haven’t seen a farm tractor that runs on wind or solar, and Schnucks will have to pay way higher commercial electric rates).
We will have to shut down our coal plants while China ramps up a new one EVERY WEEK! We won’t drill or mine our own oil and oil shale. How is this leading to energy independence?
Killer law aside for a second, the legislature & executive branch are clearly acting like some crazed lunatic. They pile on thousand-plus pages of bills that nobody reads, I guess so they can be rushed through. If that’s their role, then why not strive for a more efficient machine and outsource their jobs to China. At least then, we could cut the staffing & printing cost. Furthermore, I think China’s politicians are mostly engineers, whereas ours is mostly [stunted] lawyers.
I wonder if this banana republic (once its suicide has set in) will even be able to deliver bananas – I will miss them and countless other post-dark-ages luxuries I’ve grown accustomed to.
Robert C. Murray is a liar, and he is habitual violator of safe coal-mining practices.
He certainly has no expertise on comprehensive energy policy. Remember the Crandall Canyon, Utah (2007) disaster? Nine mine personnel killed, six remain entombed in the workings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Murray
Notice the recycled terms that were used in the “need” to pass the ‘Stimulus’ bill.
“My call to every senator, as well as to every American, is this. We cannot be afraid of the future. And we must not be prisoners of the past. Don’t believe the misinformation out there that suggests there is somehow a contradiction between investing in clean energy and economic growth.”
That is a huge contradiciton! Gov’ts don’t create jobs. Business creates jobs.
Obama said the bill would create jobs (just like ’stimulus’ did?), make renewable energy profitable and decrease America’s dependence on foreign oil (borrowing from Bush speeches now?).
“It will spur the development of low-carbon sources of energy — everything from wind, solar and geothermal power to safer nuclear energy and cleaner coal (no such thing),” he said.
Wind, solar and geothermal are already available! They don’t need to be developed! They need to be utilized! Iceland has been using geothermal for years and it powers and warms the entire city of Reykjavik.
“In California alone, Obama said, 3,000 people will be employed to build a new solar plant that will create 1,000 permanent jobs.”
Whoppee-do. That means 2,000 people will be out of work - again, after it’s built. California is already at a record 11.5% unemplyment rate. Owe-bama thinks that passing and collecting cap and trade taxes from you to pay for a 1,000 jobs will make a dent in that percentage? I wonder how people in other states feel about their unemployment while O goes on about California’s and wants them to pay for it?
One of the last major pieces of legislation passed by a congress which never actually read the document was the ‘Stimulus’ Bill or the US Patriot Act.
And we know just how much of a body blow to the Constitution and Bill of Rights that was.
This is a complete fraud, and will do nothing to actually help the environment.
It will, with what will be essentially a surcharge on energy you use, make certain individuals more filthy rich than they already are.
Here are the Congressional Representatives who voted FOR the Cap and Tax bill from MO.
Carnahan, Russ, Missouri, 3rd
Clay Jr., William “Lacy”, Missouri, 1st
Cleaver, Emanuel, Missouri, 5th
Skelton, Ike, Missouri, 4th
Make sure you thank them when:
-your cost of living increases by $3,000.00 a year.
-the bill does not make a substantive impact on the environment.
-our manufacturing jobs are outsourced and free trade is threatened.
-your tax money is used for fraud and corruption.
-as President Obama Admitted himself announced that “Electricity Rates Would Necessarily Skyrocket” under a cap-and-trade program. (San Francisco, January 2008)
-when you are made to choose between energy, groceries, clothing or haircuts.
-the ones hurt most are the Senior Citizens, the Poor, and the Unemployed.
Make sure you thank them most when the KILL more and more American jobs.
Now contact your Senators and tell them that Cap and Trade is a farce, ANY kind of Cap and Trade. For every one “green” job created, 2.5 jobs are lost, need some proof check out what the “green” movement has done to Spain’s unemployment rate, currently at 18%. If they tell you that the tax will be on corporations, remember that corporations do not pay taxes, INDIVIDUALS pay taxes. That means they will pass them on to you.
Watch out, our country is changing into a Marxist state at an alarming rate; it is up to us to protect ourselves, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, free enterprise, and CAPITALISM.
AM Lutz – purely technically speaking, you’re wrong. Apparently – in addition to not having read the bill (who could plow through 1000+ pages so quickly?) – the bill was not even written. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/06/023909.php
They don’t write the bills, they don’t read the bills, they don’t live by the bills. As this crazy system continues to spin out of control, I can only assume the next phase will be to skip that pesky election cycle thing and declare their post for life.
“Reliable estimates show that this bill will cost each American family at least $3,000 more for energy each year.” - this has been widely debunked - it will be closer to $175 per year according to the CBO. A small price for saving the planet.
We can’t sit around and wait for China - we should lead the way as we have always done.
If we don’t fix the climate change problem, there will be NO quality of life… there will be no life.
YOu climate change idiots are so stupid that its not funny anymore. Are you people that naive and arrogant that first off you believe this hogwash and secondly that you wiping your butt with 1 tissue of toilet paper is going to change a thing.
It is absolutely astounding to me that people like you can exist day to day. You believe the sky is falling crap no matter what is said to you.
This bill will cost Americans money and jobs. Those jobs will go to other countries. When will you people get it? Oh, I said jobs. I forgot, you dont want jobs, then thats an excuse for the real producers to pay for your lazy butts!
Superdave,
We won’t really know what it will cost us, if it manages to get by the Senate, using reconciliation, because NOBODY READ THE DAMNED THING! I am curious to hear from even the most staunch liberals onto why this is a good thing.
I suspect you are right that NOBODY READ THE DAMN THING. That of course means we have reps voting for a bill they don’t fully understand and reps voting against a bill they don’t fully understand. We have some arguing for a bill they haven’t read and therefore don’t understand and we have others (like you) arguing against a bill they haven’t read and don’t fully understand. How did we get to this point? I just think you are pushing talking points for Pigbaugh and O’Idiot and you think the other side is on a Messianic mission. At times it seems like this whole blog thing is just everbody blowing smoke up everbody elses ass. PR, BS and spin run our world. Ideas, logic and thought process seem to be relics of another time.
Dave–
Is it possible to get through ONE post without insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with you ? They aren’t all idiots,stupid, naive, arrogant, lazy nor even one toilet tissue square users.
And frankly, lowering your debate to that level makes you, not them, look bad.
Men of good concience CAN disagree…..
The question becomes, are you of good concience ?
And please, don’t respond by calling me a sex offender as you have done in the past.
Mags-
No , like Rove , Limbaugh, and Cheney
and if you don’t remember the other end of the spectrum, it’s Colin Powell, who the Republicans don’t think is conservative enough, after serving in military and as Secretary of State.
Smith,
“We have some arguing for a bill they haven’t read and therefore don’t understand and we have others (like you),,,,,,,,,,,,”
Tell it to congress, not me.
The House of Representatives approved the Waxman-Markey energy tax by a margin of 219-212. Democrats did not have the votes to pass the legislation without the following eight Republicans who joined the majority for this monster tax:
Bono Mack (CA) 202-225-5330
Castle (DE) 202-225-4165
Kirk (IL) 202-225-4835
Lance (NJ) 202-225-5361
Lobiondo (NJ) 202-225-6572
McHugh (NY) 202-225-4611
Reichart (WA) 202-225-7761
Chris Smith (NJ) 202-225-3765
—————————————————————————
It’s not too late to get them to change their vote. July 2nd is the last day legislators can change their vote. Let them know how you feel.
It’s not too early to begin pressuring senators on the fence as well.
senate switch board—202-224-3121.
debunk,
Thanks for the numbers. I’ll call and thank them for their votes.
Robert Murray: Reliable estimates show that this bill will cost each American family at least $3,000 more for energy each year.
There goes your credibility out the window. The CBO says it will cost the average household $175 per year.
(LINK) CBO (page 9)
CBO estimates that households in the lowest income quintile would see an average net benefit of about $40, while households in the highest income quintile would see a net cost of approximately $245 (see Table 2). Households in the second lowest quintile would see added costs of about $40 on average, those in the middle quintile would see an increase in costs of about $235, and those in the fourth quintile would pay about an additional $340 per year. Overall, costs for households would average 0.2 percent of their average after-tax income.
Lisa,
-I offer a more non-partisan view:
————————————————————————–
-Despite House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman’s many payoffs to Members, rural and Blue Dog Democrats remain wary of voting for a bill that will impose crushing costs on their home-district businesses and consumers. The leadership’s solution to this problem is to simply claim the bill defies the laws of economics.
Their gambit got a boost this week, when the Congressional Budget Office did an analysis of what has come to be known as the Waxman-Markey bill. According to the CBO, the climate legislation would cost the average household only $175 a year by 2020. Edward Markey, Mr. Waxman’s co-author, instantly set to crowing that the cost of upending the entire energy economy would be no more than a postage stamp a day for the average household. Amazing. A closer look at the CBO analysis finds that it contains so many caveats as to render it useless.
-THEN LATER:
Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won’t pinch wallets, behind the scenes they’ve acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them.
The reality is that cost estimates for climate legislation are as unreliable as the models predicting climate change. What comes out of the computer is a function of what politicians type in. A better indicator might be what other countries are already experiencing. Britain’s Taxpayer Alliance estimates the average family there is paying nearly $1,300 a year in green taxes for carbon-cutting programs in effect only a few years.
—————————————————————————
READ MORE @ -online.wsj.com/article/SB124588837560750781.html
debunk: I offer a more non-partisan view
Except that…
The CBO is NON-partisan,
and a WSJ opinion piece is PARTISAN.
~~~ EPA says ACES will cost $80-$111 per year…
(LINK) Reuters
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates the bill in its current form would cost American households between $80 and $111 per year, which equals 22 cents to 30 cents per day. A separate analysis from the Congressional Budget Office projected an annual cost of $175 for U.S. households by 2020.
The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy concluded the bill’s energy provisions would save U.S. households up to $1,050 cumulatively and produce more than 300,000 jobs by 2020.
My biggest concern here is that our lawmakers have obviously voted for a bill without reading it. Would you sign a contract without reading it? I won’t but our lawmakers just signed one in our names while only going on the salesmans pitch of, “It’s in your best interest to sign.” I don’t care what anyone says, our lawmakers are NOT representing the public when they cast votes without fully understanding a bill. This understanding is NOT possible without every congressman reading the bill fully. I applaud every congressman who voted against it, not because it was good or bad but because they were ramming an unread bill through the process.
G bones,
Exactly! Hopefully the Senate will right this ship before it broaches.
Lisa,
The WSJ may lean right but the substance of the editorial is correct. I read the CBO report and it’s simply full of what if’s, left out’s, and assumptions. A more reliable guage would be other countries who are/have tried this like Great Britain, as the WSJ article states. If everyone is so sure that the cost will be minimal, why were the minority price control amendments shot down????
gbones and budb,
Our legislators not reading bills before they vote is hardly a new issue. It has been going on for a long time. I doubt they even always read the bills when they are given days or weeks to do so. Rep. Brian Baird (D) has introduced a bill requiring that all legislation be on the internet for 72 hours before it is voted on. I’m sure Obama would be happy to sign that bill, but he is limited in his control over Congress.
(LINK) Read The Bill
Lisa,
Didn’t the Prez already make that a campaign promise, you know, transparency??? However, I agree. If it takes legislation to give the American public a chance to read major legislation coming out of the House then so be it. I really don’t think Queen Pelosi would allow such legilsation to come to a vote, just a hunch.
CBO projects some other numbers; looks like we’re all going to be clobbered (see 1st graph):
http://www.cbo.gov/
Lisa
Kudos to Rep. Brian Baird. Even if the lawmakers don’t read a bill, it can’t be voted on until public concerns can be allowed to come in. Question is, how many amendments will be added to allow for exceptions.
I wonder if this is the same Bob Murray who owned the Crandall Canyon Mine that collapsed when the workers were doing retreat mining and he SAID an earthquake collapsed the mine. If so, this guy also announced to his employees before a 2006 election, that anyone who didn’t vote Republican would be fired, you remember … the guy who threatened some of his employees who wanted to form a union that they would be killed ?
He’s just what the Republican party needs, an old, white, anti-union, global warming denier who left six workers buried in his collapsed mine and claimed it was an act of God ( after 235 citations by mine safety officials)
A GREAT spokesman for the coal industry.