Missouri GOP caucuses on Saturday — Ron Paul’s last stand?

It’s true…check out these websites:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/states/missouri/

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/missouri-delegate-training-for-ron-paul-campaign-1/2597432702?icid=acvsv1

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/missouri-delegate-training-for-ron-paul-campaign-2/2607259458

The delegates are bound to McCain only for the first few rounds of voting at the convention. You see, the national convention is, in and of itself, an actual election. Only this time is the only election the really matters in determining who the party’s nominee will be. Some states send “bound” delegates to the convention who must vote for the candidate who garnered the popular vote win. Those delegates must vote for that person whether or not they support him or her. Each state has different rules, but the delegates are not bound forever. If, for example, McCain fails to get 1191 of the delegates to vote for him in the first election round at the convention, some of the delegates (depending on what state you’re from) are “released” and then can vote for whomever they want in round two… some are still bound and are not released until round 2 or three. I believe that after round three, however, that ALL delegates from ALL states are “released” and can vote for the candidate of their choice and it doesn’t even have to be a candidate who is even running!!

This is exactly how Abraham Lincoln was nominated. He went into the convention with virtually no delegates bound to him. The front runner at the time was a devisive figure (much like McCain is today) and was unable to garner the requisite number of delegate votes in round one. As delegates started to be released after each round, Lincoln garnered more and more votes until finally, after the 5th or 6th round (I don’t remember which off the top of my head) Lincoln received the requisite number of delegate votes and became the party’s nominee.

Bottom line… you’re state’s primary election results mean next to nothing in the overall nomination process.

Thanks, Aaron for explaining to the masses what we Ron Paul supporters already know, and that’s exactly why we will be elected delegates. We are passionate, we are intelligent, we will be heard. Peace..

As somebody who sympathizes with Ron Paul’s political views and likes him as a person - indeed, I even made a small, early contribution to his campaign - it pains me to see my fellow “libertarian Republicans” grasping at these straws. Today, the delegate count stands at 1,260 for McCain, 272 for Romney, 270 for Huckabee, and 14 for Paul. Since 1,191 are needed to win, and primaries still remain in which McCain will almost surely gain hundreds more delegates, it is ridiculous to talk about what would happen “If, for example, McCain fails to get 1191 of the delegates to vote for him in the first election round.”

In reality, even if McCain drops dead tomorrow, it is still very unlikely that Paul still would be the nominee. So just stop it!

If Paul supporters want to have influence in politics, and in the Republican party, a failed backdoor effort to nominate Paul isn’t the way to accomplish it. Rather, actively participating in the Republican party, getting to know the players in your township (and becoming one yourself), and working to advance the view and candidates in your area, will secure your place in the party for years to come.

Personally, there are plenty of issues on which I disagree with John McCain. But McCain has pledged to veto any bill which contains earmarks, an issue on which he has a long personal history. If he sticks to his word on this, his Presidency will be revolutionary in a way that any Paul supporter will enjoy.

Jody - sorry to be so dense, but when you say ‘we will be elected delegates’ are you saying that you’ll try to get elected as a McCain delegate and then vote RP in the general election when you are free to do so? Are you also suggesting to RP delegates that we try to become McCain delegates and do the same thing? I’m new to this and am a bit overwhelmed. Thanks.

Yes, the Paul backers, not having won at the polls, are going to try to win at the various County contentions to be held in Texas on March 29th. The Paul supporters that took over our precinct (Travis Co., 251) said as much.

What they don’t understand, largely because this is their first time in the political process, is that the Republican Party will shut these guys down. The nominee has been chosen and any attempts at disrupting that, of trying to turn our nominating process into something that only the Democrats could love right now, will only hurt Dr. Paul and his supporters down the road.

Bottom, winning between 3%-6% of the Primary vote pretty much kills your candidate’s chances of being the nominee.

Jim - how will the party ’shut these guys down’?

The odds of anyone besides John McCain winning the nomination are extremely low, but no, he doesn’t have it locked up, and he doesn’t have anywhere near the required number of pledged delegates yet, despite the media reports. That being said, if Republicans decide that McCain isn’t viable due to illness or scandal, they would probably just hand the nomination to Romney.

Even so, Ron Paul supporters have plenty of reasons to try to get elected as delegates to the state and national conventions. They can help shape the state and party Republican platforms, moving them back in a more pro-liberty, smaller-government, pro-Constitution direction. Those who say Ron Paul supporters should give up on seeking the nomination and just get active in the party are missing the point — trying to get as many delegates as possible IS getting involved in the party, at the highest levels.

And no, there’s no reason to try to “shut these guys down” — Ron Paul supporters share the deepest philosophical principles that the Republican Party is supposed to have, just as Ron Paul does — he is pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, anti-amnesty, pro-smaller government and pro freedom. No one is advocating breaking any laws or party rules.

3-6 percent huh? How about checking CNN and seeing these numbers for Ron Paul’s results: Montana 25%, Washington 22%, North Dakota 21%, Maine 19%, Alaska 17%, Minnesota 16%, Nevada 14%, Kansas 11%, and Iowa 10%. I suppose you missed those on the news, since everyone glossed over how well Ron Paul actually did.

This is going to be a fun convention. Although McCain might have the delegates, we the Ron Paul supporters are not done yet. Not in this race or in the republican party. The party’s over, Neo-Cons and we are not going away. We have been ignored, maligned, and slurred by the establishment GOP and we will not FORGET! Look forward to seeing y’all in St. Paul

Oh…and btw we’ll see if we have 3-6% in 2012. I’m betting a lot more and when we don’t support McCain this time…see if you need our votes to beat the democrats. Nothing like losing to change your attitudes Neo-Cons!

If for some reason, McCain doesn’t get the nomination on the first ballot, then it’s a wide open contest. In the 1968 Democratic Party convention, Hubert Humphrey got the nomination, even though he didn’t run in the primaries. That’s because no one won on the first ballot.

A lot of Republicans hate McCain. The evangelicals, which are still quite strong in the party, won’t go for Romney. The economy is falling apart and neither McCain nor Romney have a handle on economic reality. Their economic views are essentially the same as the Bush adminitration’s, so they offer nothing.

If Ron Paul comes to the convention with a significant number of delegates, and a significant number of supporters outside the convention hall, he could pull off a coup. It’s a long-shot, but if McCain has health problems (so far, he’s refused to reveal his medical records), or looks as if he can’t win against Obama or Hillary (which he probably can’t), then the Republican Party will have to look elsewhere.

McCain will easily win against Obama or Clinton. Obama is a VERY extreme liberal whose history and views are starting to leak out - for example, ABC News’ coverage of his pastor of 20 years, who is a bigot of the order of Farrakhan. Clinton is damaged goods. And for those of you who haven’t noticed, the media doesn’t hate McCain like they do Bush. I know, that isn’t such a good sign for conservatives … but as I said before, if he sticks to his guns on the earmark issue, and doesn’t do too much damage on other things, I’ll be a satisfied customer.

Any other number crunchers out there?
I think a lot of folks have underestimated the acumen with which Dr. Paul has played the game to win the election. He’s rightfully given his grass roots the estimation they deserve, knowing that they are the key to success. He knows that his supporters are sold on the ideas he’s espoused, and their numbers will only grow. This phenomenon really has the GOP over a barrel, because they know that without R.P. supporters, they have no prayer of winning. The most they can hope for is being held up to ridicule if they run anybody else. Let’s look at this, shall we?

Yellow dog GOPers-20-30%(MC+ Huck split) -R. P. supporters- 10-30%= 35-50% of the electorate ( no way to determine exactly, due to election rigging)
Then you’ve got your 3rd party block which could only go to 1. Ron Paul, 2. independent candidates, or 3. a democrat (definitely not for GOP candidate other than R.P.)=20-30% of the electorate
And finally you’ve got the democratic side of the equasion, where you’ve got
Yellow dog dems-20% , anti war dem voters- 10-20%= 35-40% of the electorate Now when you look at these numbers and move them around you see that the most significant variable is the candidacy of Ron Paul (or lack thereof.) Should the GOP not pick Dr. Paul, let’s look at what happens. They’re left without R.P. supporters, 95% of whom will jump ship for a third party candidate ( or less likely, a dem.) You may also have some conservatives, realizing their plight , jumping ship for a Constitution or Libertarian candidate. This leaves them with, best case scenario-20-30% of the electorate, a joke of a candidacy by any estimation. Result- dissolution of the GOP due to this and continuing disrepute due to GWB admin.
Now look at what happens if they DO pick the right candidate (Ron Paul.) They get the yellow dog GOP vote (chance 1-5% of left wing will jump ship for communist party after their conversion of GOP threatened)-19-26% of the electorate, then you’ve got the Ron Paul grass roots, amounting, by election time to in the area of 35-40% of the electorate, but even if you use the current estimates of 10-30% of the electorate. Then you’ve got the estimated 20-30% of indy voters at least 80% of which will get behind R.P. as a Peace candidate, which gives you another18-30% of the electorate. And finally, you’ve got the disenchanted democratic voters who will bound overboard to vote for a bona fide anti war candidate. I estimate the number of dems disgusted after the ‘06 election to be 25-40%, equaling out to 10-15% of the electorate.
So let’s look at the totals, and please; if I’m way off base here, show me where my miscalculations are. Now, we have
19-26%-yellow dogs
10-40%- Ron Paul grass roots
18-30%-independents
10-15%- anti-war democrats
———
57-100% total support for the GOP candidate. Of course the Best case scenario would,in actuality not be 100%. This is a total of best cases, but the total could be very high. The worst case scenario couldn’t be much lower than 57%.
So let’s compare the GOP’s choices in ‘08
McCain or Huckabee-20-30% of electorate
Ron Paul-57-100% of the electorate
Now you can bet the GOP has already crunched these numbers, and you can bet on frequent underwear changes.

The democrats are not guaranteed to win either if the GOP runs a dead dog against them. we can crunch the numbers there as well. The two possible scenarios are that a strong third party candidate will emerge or that they won’t.
First you’ve got the yellow doggers15-20% of the electorate, then you’ve got irate dems who are still livid after ‘06 betrayal. Probably 30% of these will hold their noses and vote dem. amounting to another 5-7% of the electorate. Then you’ve got uninformed Indy’s who’ll vote dem. in order to ensure GOP failure. I figure another 3-7% of the electorate. this will depend on the viability of the third party candidate, and finally you’ve got Ron Paul supporters and GOPers (Coulter, et al) who’ll hold their noses and vote dem. This should be another 3-7% of the electorate .
On the other side of the equasion you’ve got a strong third party candidate or a number of write in campaigns, in any event you’ve got 1. A majority of Ron Paul grass roots who will never vote dem. You’re looking at between15 and 30% of the electorate. Then you’ve got 2. the majority of the indy voters who will reject the 4 more years of business as usual that both the GOP and the dems represent. The weakness of the other parties will embolden them to vote third party. I figure between15 and25% of the electorate. Then you’ve got 3. a huge group of dems who have vowed not to be betrayed again by the dem. party and will gladly jump ship in support of a strong anti war, constitutionalist platform. you can estimate between10 and 20% of the electorate.
So, lets read ‘em and weep.
vote % based on no third party threat:
15-20%- yellow dog dems
5-7% -gagging irate dem
3-7%- uninformed indys.
3-7%- R.P. and Coulterite voters
——–
26-41% of the electorate, total. Not particularly appetizing, best case they may win.
on the other hand we have voting third party:
15-30%- resolute R3volutionaries
15-25%- Independents rejecting current state of affairs
10-20%- democrats delighted to stick it to their betrayers
———–
35-75% total third party voters. Best case would not likely approach 75%, but even worst case makes it a close race with the others’ best case.
So the Democratic party doesn’t have an easy row to hoe either. I recommend buying stock in Fruit of the Loom or Hanes.

Of course the NWO can game the election, but they’d have to work every angle in both parties to reasonably expect public acceptance of the results. I predict that they’ll retrench and let the people speak for now, too many of us are paying attention. They can always pull a JFK at their leisure after some of us have gone back to sleep. I’m open to other interpretations.
Thank You.

O.K. Once more I will try to explain why R.P. is a shoo-in. The republican backbone is the conservative wing. Almost every repub you talk to will tell you that he or she is conservative.Ron Paul has won endorsements from the American Conservative Magazine and the conservative political action committee(CPAC) The conservative wing is astute enough to realize that, given the record of the last 8 years, they haven’t a snowballs chance in November with anybody other than Ron Paul due to several factors.
1. McCain is a fatally flawed candidate. Swift boat campaign is gearing up only now.
2. R.P.’s grass roots will exit en mass should R.P. not be nominated. This coupled with general disenchantment among conservatives bodes for apathy among the base.
3. A significant number of disenchanted repubs would sooner vote for Hillarity (See Coulter)
4. In light of 1., 2., and 3. above, only a totally brain dead repub will get off of a dime to support what will laughingly be put up as a candidacy. Don’t forget, These folks are expected to donate just as Ron Paul supporters have, and you can see by what’s happened so far that they havent got anybody willing to support their candidates with cash.
5. The military voters have put their money where their mouths are and you can bet they’ll either go independent or democrat, because they are becoming aware of what’s in store for them under a continued neo-con paradigm.
6. Well, there are many other mitigating factors, virtually all negative for the repubs. Public awareness of election fraud and media manipulation to name one.
So McCain will be a very tough sell to the leaders of the GOP especially if they are virtually guaranteed a victory with Ron Paul, with the independents and demos he will draw into the fold as a peace candidate. True enough, the powers that be have anointed Hillarity and are infuencing the GOP to put someone up there who is designed to fail. A certain percentage of the conservatives will not go along with this sham, if only by reason of its transparency. Republicans can not abide being held up as laughing stocks. No the writing is on the wall. Mene mene tekel upharsin: The neo- con agenda has proven to be bankrupt, the R.P. revolutionaries will cause untold difficulties for the GOP should they be disenfranchised, The party faces extinction with things as they are shaping up to be, and they secretly know in their hearts that R.P.’s principles are aligned with their own. I have a sneakin’ suspicion that, coming on the heels of the CPAC meeting (where McCain was heckled and Paul was lauded) the press release was not to announce defeat, but to soft pedal the receipt of the news that his slot was in the works, and that a” scandal” would force McCain out (actually told to go home by GOP) and to lull the demos into (mistakenly) beginning their celebrations so that they would be subject to ridicule and excoriation later.
I may be naiive about all this, but I think Romney’s “suspension” was an exploratory ploy to see if R.P. would then drop out in dismay of losing the chance at a brokered convention. He held fast to his unassailable position, and I predict that Romney will soon withdraw. The plan has been to jettison McCain all along but these things must be done delicately in order to avoid alienating the joe sixpack wing. so if you read between the lines you will see that Dr. Paul’s message was guardedly hopeful, not defeatist. Doctors learn, after a while to give you the worst case scenario so that in the event of a miraculous recovery, their treatment can be vindicated.O chance of brokered convention. 100% chance of uncontested nomination of Ron Paul for president.(unless I’m completely asea on this, in which case I humbly beg your pardons.) Thank You

Actually there is a process where you can make bound delegates turned into unbound and thats what they plan to do

McCain has 385 committed delegates as of today. http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/R.phtml the national convention is months away, McCain is having great difficulty collecting $$$> why I find myself asking seeing America is told Republicans have chosen McCain as their man. If McCain is the Republican torch barrier then where are the millions of support dollars? There seams to be a disconnect folks; I submit McCain is not the Party nominee. Ron Paul should be and perhaps will. He has 30 years economic, and government experience and even a non-debt campaign.

You Ronulans are very funny people.

Now, back on your meds… shu… go home!

As a long term GOP member from Va I must chim in. I have supported the GOP in every election and voted party line…. Now look at what this old voting method has provided… We now have a budget that is so far out of line it makes Bill Clinton’s efforts look like limited gov efforts.

We now have our millitary stuck in an undeclared war but they sure to like to vote to pay for the dam war…. McCain hails a 100 year war and I didn’t buy that.

McCain looked like a fool in the last debate that GOP members were allowed to ask one quetsion and Paul asked Paul in regards to ecnomic issues and McCain simply stated he would refer these issn’t to his future cab. How laim is that.

McCain will not reveal his health records or the details of his time in prison camps…

So as GOP member I’m proud to be called a delegte and we expect to previl if not we have plan B in place and I’m proud to support plan B.

The GOP needs to be taken back to it’s roots the same roorts that make the party great and i for one will take the action needed to allow this to occur. If we can’t make headway by 2012 then I will leave the GOP and join the Constustiion party and support limited gov themes within that party. In my state we have Ron Paul Republicans running for offices of City Mayor, Congressman, Senator , etc.

As i see it if our nation is to prevail it’s becuase Ron Paul supporters are out defeating the REal Id Act, US Pat Act, IRS, Heck just last Thursday we had over 100 at each congressioanl office to oppose the TEC and the local press was amazed and had not seen anyone oppose local offices since NAM.

We are making a big effect just look at Alaska’s plateform of recent……

In closing how could anyone vote for McCain? He supported open borders and all he had to do was plege that he would support closed borders? If you trust this pledge then the people of Germany were right.

re: “So McCain will be a very tough sell to the leaders of the GOP…”

Uhhh, riiiiight. That’s why, starting in Florida, the biggest players in the GOP have been falling all over themselves endorsing McCain.

Of ALLLL the Republican candidates, which one is easily the closest thing to a Bush-successor? The closest thing to what Bush’s vice-president might have been like? In fact, the closest to what Bush’s actual vice-president is like? Answer: Giuliani or McCain. Of all the candidates, they were the ones most strongly in favor of continuing Bush’s policy of talking tough about “staying on the offense” (they’re also closely aligned with Bush on immigration).

After Giuliani poor showing in New Hampshire made it apparent that he was probably not a viable candidate, everything - party elder support and blatantly favorable news media coverage - started shifting toward McCain. After McCain’s victory in South Carolina, that shift was in full swing. By Florida, the fix was fully in place.

As for the Republican party being able to “shut down” Ron Pal supporters (not that they need to)…
For those who haven’t noticed, the Republican party’s primary mandate is: Presidential candidates must strongly support the continuing occupation of Iraq. They will not allow any dissent from that, much less outright repudiation. It really doesn’t matter that Ron Paul supports most of the traditional Republican principles more than the other candidates. For the party “elders” in 2008, the lack of support for the continuing occupation of Iraq is a deal-breaker. They just have too much political capital invested in it (and many of them will derive future financial benefit from it, too.)

Thus, Ron Paul’s primary campaign policy is incompatible with the fundamental imperative of the Republican party’s most influential “players” in 2008.

If McCain dropped dead of a heart attack before the convention, the contest would shift to Romney & Huckabee, and their factions would duke it out at convention. If those two were to get carried away, get into a fight and fall down a flight of stairs, breaking each other’s necks, the convention would be thrown into turmoil, but even then Ron Paul would NOT be permitted to nominated. Too many of the biggest players do NOT support him.

If McCain, Romney & Huckabee all died before the convention, the next in line might be Fred Thompson (though he’d probably decline the offer). After that, probably somebody who wasn’t even a candidate.

While I certainly “hope” that we someday get a leading candidate who is advocates - and will work toward - most of the policies Ron Paul has advocated for many years, that isn’t going to happen this year. Ron Paul’s policy proposals were certainly not the status quo, and to sell an extraordinary proposition like that takes both extraordinary personal persuasiveness and the support of at least a significant faction within a mainstream political party. Ron Paul had neither.

I would just like to say that as a Ron Paul supporter, I find the rest of you to be insane, ever since he started gaining a following I have felt this way but this is the first time its ever spilled over into annoyance, you shouldn’t worship him like a god, even if he is the best candidate, you blame the media for its bias, where were in in 2004! you weren’t complaining for Nader, Cobb, Badnarik, or Baldwin were you?, You should put some blame on yourselves it might be because your part of the worst generation ever to grace this Country.

C. Davis - Just because you can post an endless stream of numbers doesn’t mean any of it adds up. Some important errors in your “analysis”:

1. “Yellow dog GOPers-20-30%(MC+ Huck split) -R. P. supporters- 10-30%”

FACT: The highest percentage Paul has received in any primary was 25%, in Montana. His average is far below that. Reference: http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/candidate?candidate=Paul&ref=ipb

2. “So let’s compare the GOP’s choices in ‘08 - McCain or Huckabee-20-30% of electorate,
Ron Paul-57-100% of the electorate”

FACT: Ron Paul didn’t even get 57% of the Republican primary vote. There’s no way that loads of liberal Democrats are going to vote for a libertarian Republican, even if he does oppose the Iraqi war.

3. “A significant number of disenchanted repubs would sooner vote for Hillarity (See Coulter)”

Coulter puts on a great show, and is paid well for it. She may even actually believe that, though if she does, I say she’s as nuts as you are.

I am as disappointed as anybody at the horrible failures of the Bush administration. I can’t wait until the day he leaves office, and hope he has the sense to disappear from the public eye as quickly as possible. We’ll be paying the bills for his administration for years to come, and have little to show for it.

But John McCain is NOT George Bush, and anybody who can’t see the difference is either willfully blind or terribly uninformed. As somebody who supported, and even donated a little money to the Ron Paul campaign, I can also say that I will happily support McCain, and wish and expect for his campaign the greatest of success.

Well, now I’ve seen everything. The RP supporters want to subvert the Republican convention by what appears to be the breaking of the Republican’s own set of rules. It is indicated that they would and will vote for RP even at the first ballot even though they were elected by the Republican voters to support candidates other than RP. And this from the set that supports a candidate who claims to honor the law, the Constitution, and to try to get the President and Congess and the Courts to uphold the law.
And if the fantasy of this subversion does succeed, just exactly will they do next in a Paul Administration, assuming that he beats the Democrat’s nominee? Do they really think that a President Paul will be able, by an Executive Order or a signing statement, repeal the 16th Amendment, eliminate Social Security and the Federal Reserve? If Paul attempted such actions, he’d become the tyrant that he claims Bush is.
The posts by the RP supporters give the reality of thier revolution. That reality is that little of the republic or its laws would be left. Indeed, any opposition to the new Pauline order would be met by the same force that they claim is the hallmark of an unjust government.

This has been a fun thread to read since my original post #1. I’d like to clear a few things up that some of you are rampantly speculating about.

First, “Ron Paul” doesn’t plan to do much of anything at the convention. In many ways, I don’t believe that even Ron Paul himself believes that the nomination will come his way. With his statements recently about his campaign “winding down” he simply returned to what brought him into the race to begin with… the grassroots. It is the grassroots supporters who are working to go to the convention and stand up for what they believe are true conservative values and who they believe is really the party’s best option for a win against the Democrats. In a very real way, Paul could end up having to be dragged up onto the stage to accept the nomination that he really didn’t expect to get.

Someone earlier made the statement that neither Obama nor Hillary can beat McCain… are you serious in that belief?? The media is taking some token shots at the Dems right now, but once the nominee is locked up, the media is going to absolutely destroy any republican candidate in the running and bless the Democrat with Holy Water. Just think of how easy a target the Republican nominee will be… well more than a majority of Americans no longer support the war in Iraq… every republican other than Paul supports the war… do the math folks. Bush’s approval rating has been and continues to be at pit-of-despair levels… the “top GOP leadership” has made no secret of their support for Mr. “I’ll stay in Iraq for 100 years” McCain, Mr. “suspending my campaign” Romney and Mr. “I’ll rewrite the Constitution to reflect the Bible” Huckabee. All of them have essentially praised George W for his actions on the war and his doctrine in general. Mr. Bush has even given his “endorsement” to McCain (big whoop-dee-doo)… again, do the math here folks.

Obama will absolutely demolish any Republican other than Paul. Hillary will have a slightly tougher battle, but in the end would still pull out a rather easy win. Paul is the only Republican who can offer a better choice to voters… a choice that speaks out against the war… a choice that can offer up the famous “I told you so” about our nations economy… a choice who will actually bring real change to Capitol Hill and will not sell out to big business, big money and big politics. He’s proven this for 30 years… he’s going to suddenly stop now?

There will be no breaking of Party rules to have an influence at the convention. They’ll be no sinister, evil acts taking place (unless it’s on the part of those who have the fantasy of “shutting down” the Paul supporters… news flash to those neo-con traiters… it’s going to be tough to shut out a group that has close to if not right at a majority of the votes… best of luck to ya). Just honest, open, spirited and patriotic debate within the rules of the party to influence not only the platform but the most qualified nominee for president as well.

The fact that Missouri Republican Party Executive Director Jared Craighead is releasing rumors and the media is spreading them is evidence that he & a lot of others are scared that Ron Paul is the next Abe Lincoln!

Those threatened by Ron Paul’s integrity and determination to abide by the oath he and others must swear are trying to intimidate delegates. As Theodore Roosevelt said [& is still quoted by the GOP]: “A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.

Let’s hope Jo Mannies will be able to report the truth after Saturday.

As someone who has respected the staying power that Ron Paul has had through this campaign, I’m now convinced that you all that think you’re going to gain delegates for him are insane.

What you are essentially doing is attempting to disrupt and embarrass the Republican Party — and you sit there and suggest that YOU won’t soon forget??

It’s time to grow up! Ron Paul doesn’t have the votes it takes to become president, and if you succeed in trampling the caucuses Saturday, you’ll only be aiding the dem candidate, whomever that turns out to be.

The RNC & DNC have been exposed.
This election is wide open.
Plenty of time,
Events.

Voters are awake;
gravel kucinich paul nader

We’re following the rules; bringing registered republican voters to republican conventions. Got a problem; go bring your Doughnut eating; Soap watching friends to your conventions; if not deal with it, In this country MAJORITY RULES. If we have a majority we win plain and simple. Get over it.

>>Comment by Nick Kasoff
>>McCain has pledged to veto any bill which contains earmarks, an issue on which he has a
>> long personal history. If he sticks to his word on this, his Presidency will be revolutionary in a
>>way that any Paul supporter will enjoy.

Wall Street Journal had an article on the earmarks Friday 3/14. $19B is a joke and won’t balance the budget for even a week.

We agree the McCain will be revolutionary in continuing to oppose the 1st and 2nd ammendments, not following the rule of law for illegal alien entry, and for deficit spending.

McCain’s overriding the 1st + 2nd ammendment rights, along with promoting more deficit spending are not conservative Republican values.

As a supporter of the Ron Paul message, I just have to say that I am so proud of those Americans who are signing up to be delegates in the Republican process. It does not really matter if Ron Paul gets the nomination. The revolution of ideas is catching on, and the change can not be stopped. Let’s just hope that it is not too late.

All these RON PAUL PEOPLE are Wasting there energy trying to get Ron Paul in !!!!!!!!!
He can never win

Ron Paul is the only canidate that can save this country from a very bloody and costly civil war..

It is simple… if you had enough people turn out you won by honest vote. Most people in the city were too complacent to be bothered turning out and the Ron Paul folks won by a very, very slight margin. The surprising absence of some leaders in city Republican circles may have turned the tide in the RP favor and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Congratulations to the Ron Paul supporters on a game well played.

I would encourage them to get involved in the future and not just fade away after November for another 4 years if they are in fact as they claim… “true Republicans”.

Any of these cheerleaders of the 4 more years of the “business as usual” paradigm are blinded by their hubris to the fact that all the polls show that between 80 and 90% of Americans are against the war and you can bet that that translates to a huge percentage of committed voters. These cheerleader types can’t separate the football game mentality from their own self-interest. They’ve been told by every single media outlet out there that Dr. Paul can’t win so many times that they assume that it must be true. These are folks who haven’t yet figured out that one should be suspicious of anyone who would go to such great lengths to sell them something. Anyone who thinks that our election system is legitimate should just keep their head down and keep eating grass until shearing time or butchering time, whichever comes first. There were plenty of these around the first time we had problems with king George, too.

I keep seeing these numbers that have no basis in any valid research. 80% to 90% of voters are against Iraq? Do you mean the initial invasion of Iraq? Those are the highest negatives, and those don’t even reach those numbers. For the first time since 2004, more people believe we need to stay in until it stabilizes, and that it will eventually work out than not. That’s recent poll numbers. If you have managed to take the state convention, and you embarrass the party, there will be retribution. Until now, most of the members of the party have stayed out because they knew the rules were the delegates were forced to vote for McCain, and they played by the rules. Now you all want to change the rules mid-game. You do not have a majority, you have a very active minority. If you believe differently, you are in for a very rude awakening. You have won some of the caucuses thus far (I don’t know about others) so do what you wish to do. However, you should be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

Well, if Ron Paul supporters do take the state convention, Missouri will make national news … as the state where getting 4.5% of the primary vote is enough to control the delegates. Calvin Davis said that “Anyone who thinks that our election system is legitimate should just keep their head down and keep eating grass until shearing time or butchering time, whichever comes first.” I wonder how it is legitimate when 4.5% wins.

FYI, Mr. Davis, I am neither a “4 more years of the ‘business as usual’” nor am in in this for my own self-interest. I enthusiastically supported Paul in the primary, voted for him, and gave him money. I support almost everything he stands for, with the great exception that I support the war in Iraq. I have been very dissatisfied with President Bush, who I’d rank as the worst Republican President in my lifetime, and with the exception of Jimmy Carter, the worst President of either party.

But none of that leads me to support your black helicopter ideas about rigged elections, the bogus statistics which have been posted in this thread, or the statements about “King George” that sound like they were lifted from DailyKos. If that’s what passes for being a conservative, we’re in big trouble.

I also have been a participant in Republican politics for a long time. I was an alternate to the Republican National Convention in 1996 - for Pat Buchanan. I personally organized a Buchanan group in the St. Charles county caucus that year, and won. But that was before we had a primary, and therefore, before we had bound delegates. I’ve seen party regulars bend and twist the rules to hurt conservative upstarts, and was infuriated by their total lack of morals and respect for the rule of law. The conduct of some who support Ron Paul in this election has legitimized their tactic, which is to get as much as you can, regardless of what you have to do to get it. Congratulations.

McChurianCandidate was allowed to succeed because there is no plan to allow a Republocrat into the Oval Office this time around. This clown was 894 out of a class of 899 and would likely have a difficult time explaining how to balance a checkbook, no less fix a dying fiat currency system.

It is time to march Socialism directly down the throats of the producing sector and ensure that the dependent sector gets on board for the ride down Stalin Highway. It’s time for an OH-HO (ObamaHillary-HillaryObama) ticket to take over and complete the destruction of the republic.

Mr Kasoff : Your credentials as a GOP operative provide no credence with me as attesting to the validity of your poisition. If you’re willing to sign on to 4 (or a hundred) more years of institutionalized murder, I don’t care whether you respect anything about me or any of my fellow patriots. We’re not going to legitimize your vaunted procedures with our consideration under any circumstances. I don’t care if you heap insults upon me ’til the cows come home, If you can’t see what’s at stake here, I consider you to be beneath my contempt. I lost patience with Bush fluffers and McCain fluffers long ago so, say what you will, history will show which of us had the interests of our country in mind when having our say. And If you think that a Texas congressional district who would overwhelmingly vote for Paul for congress (37,000 votes) and not vote for him for president (6,000 votes) then,my friend, you are in a state of denial about our election system so deep, that there’s nothing I’d ever be able to say that would be able to reach into your twisted psyche anyway, so I’ll stop belaboring the obvious for now and trust that other sensible people will be willing to raise their voices in support of truth.

I love how using the political process to try to fix what’s wrong in our country is scorned upon. A man has opened our eyes, by catching just enough spot light to wake up 4-30% of the republican voters in each state (that take time out to vote in primaries). I have no belief that Ron Paul will be president, I just hold it as hope. I have hope that I can effect change and open the light to others. Before this process I looked upon the election process as scum. Now I know I don’t have to just look. We are in the wrong direction, a nose dive, whether or not you agree. But don’t fret, there are 4-30% of us pulling up as hard as we can.

Mr. Davis - What you are saying bears a very distant relationship to truth. Despite what DailyKos, Obama, and George Soros might say, the fact is that “institutionalized murder” best describes the regime of Saddam Hussein, not the work of the American military. Or perhaps you have forgotten the thousands of bodies bulldozed into mass graves. Institutionalized murder also is a very appropriate description of the Islamo-fascists who strap bombs to anyone who is young enough, retarded enough, or fanatical enough not to know any better, and sends them into crowded marketplaces to murder fellow Iraqis.

Our job in Iraq has been neither as short nor as easy as some might have believed. It is probably true that mismanagement by the Bush administration bears some of the responsibility for this. But to call American action in Iraq “institutionalized murder” proves only that you’ve spent a lot of time reading left-wing blogs before posting here. I’m sure that you’ll vote for Barak McGovern-Obama in November.

I’m not asking you to legitimize procedures which, contrary to what you say, I’ve neither vaunted nor claimed as my own. But playing a game, losing, then changing the rules after the game is over, is cheating. If you want to say that the ends justify the means, fine. But that doesn’t make you a winner, it makes you a cheater.

As I said before, if your idea of “fixing the electoral system” is giving the state’s delegates to the candidate who got less than 5% of the vote … well, I guess that depends upon what the meaning of the word “fixing” is, doesn’t it?

Mr. Hoven - In what state did Paul get 30%? According to ABC’s summary, Paul’s highest tally was 25% in Montana, and his average was far less. See Paul’s complete percentages here:

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/candidate?candidate=Paul&ref=ipb

Remember Ross Perot.

Ralph Nader Ron Paul Dennis Kucinich Mike Gravel.

Cynthia McKinney.

United by truth elicit fear smear blacklist.
Wrenches in the gears lives not lived in vain.

Human League awakened sheep.
President Carter understands

Apparently, some of us are uninformed about the fact that nearly 900 documented lies were told to us by our current regieme in order to “fix” intelligence around the policy of war with Iraq. The fact of the matter is that the “job” of invading Iraq was not ours to do. This is irrelevant to these people. They pretend that everyone else agrees with them that it’s OK to go around the world, murdering leaders and citizenries in order to prop up the immoral miscreants who think they own us. Well I hate to burst their bubble but the time is coming that the perpetrators of these crimes will be brought to justice. Included in the dockett will be the organs of the mass deceivers, the networks and the monopoly press who are responsible for causing these folks to believe lies about “thousands of bodies being bulldozed into mass graves.” To the best of my knowlege the only bodies that could be referred to here must be Kurds who were ordered killed by the govt. who sold Hussein his stocks of nerve gas in the first place. Ours. Again I say, It is a small vocal, monied minority in this country who promotes and foments this policy of intervention around the world contrary to the interests of American’s citizens and there are those of us who still have conscience enough to refuse to consent to their diabolical plans.
Sure, the soldiers are doing what they are told is in the best interests of our country, but when they are enlightened to what they have been deceived into doing many retire, or worse commit suicide due to an inability to continue living with the horror. There are a number of good reasons why Ron Paul has garnered more donations from active duty and retired military personnel than all the other candidates combined. They KNOW what iniquity has been spawned by the military-Industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.
These apologists always squawk about ” securing the world’s energy.” Well, the oil in Iraq belongs to the citizens of Iraq, not to the British and not to us. If we want it we can surely buy it, but I really can’t see why some consider it our right to just go in and take it. If we want oil, why not re-open our refineries and closed down wells, why not drill in the open seas, where we’re not having to kill folks for it. I can tell you unequivocally that if market pressures were allowed to work, gas would be under $1.00 per gallon. The reason Hussein was deposed was that he was OVERpumping oil in order to pay off his debt to US. If the U.S. capacity were developed again the money would be circulating here rather than halfway around the world.
The real reason the globalists are pushing the candidates that they are is that they want to defeat America with its large middle class protected by its strong constitution. That’s why they want McAmnesty or one of their other pro illegal minions in the white house for the final hurrah of the republic. Well I for one will spit at them with my final breath. I suspect that there are others who will not go silently into that good night as well. I’ve never advocated anything illegal as Mr Kasoff has insinuated above, but I would urge anyone in a position to positively affect the constitutional process to do everything in their power to disallow the usurpation of the rights of the citizens of the United States of America.

Nick Kasoff — March 15th, 2008 at 5:20 pm said:
\”I enthusiastically supported Paul in the primary, voted for him, and gave him money.\”

Nick Kasoff, the fec lookup at http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/norindsea.shtml says you are a liar.

Now go back to you parent\’s basement, you liar.

Bob Boberton — March 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm:
“However, you should be prepared for the consequences of your actions.”

Consequences like more budget deficits, more inflation, more gov’t intervention in my life? That is what your candidates are proposing.

http://www.ntu.org/main/ says Ron Paul is the only candidate to propose a balanced budget.

That liberal gun-grabber who doesn’t like the first ammendment proposes more defiict spending, just like his buddies in the Democatic party.

I was at the Jackson County, MO Caucus today (Kansas City - second largest metro area). We got a full slate (180) of Ron Paul Republican Delegates elected to both the District and State Conventions! We also passed 3 Resolutions: 1)No REAL ID (awesome!) 2) NO Animal Registration ID (city-folk will have to ask ranchers about this one) 3) We resolved to change the state GOP rule, not law, that binds National Delegates from Missouri to McCain. We also amended the State GOP Platform with 14 changes to include: getting rid of Dept. of Education control of Missouri schools, resisting the NAU and SPP, and a statement that the Republican Party believes the US can only go to war with a Declaration from Congress. Now, these are only county amendments put forward to the State Convention, but hey, it’s a baby step!

We had around a 65-70% majority of members at the caucus. Many of the “old guard” left in disgust after they realized we were in control, even though we didn’t even try to unseat the Chair of twenty some years as we were trying to make friends with whomever we could.

Missouri is looking pretty good so far.

Today was the St. Louis city caucus. I caucused with the fine folks from the 1st and 3rd congressional district living in the city of St. Louis. The primaries have already decided who would be the nominee for the state of Missouri — John McCain. However, the Ron Paul supporters were out en masse today supporting the ideals of the traditional small-government Republican party that Dr. Paul has been championing since day 1.

I wish I had taken a camera, or my laptop to liveblog this account. It was a spectacle, to say the least.

I arrived at the Machecek Library at 9:00 - one full hour before the caucus began. Parking next to the minivan plastered with Ron Paul bumper stickers and magnets, I met Tyson Lauby, who has been instrumental in rallying the Ron Paul supporters for the city.

Now, let me set the scene a bit more for you. Tyson is not your typical politician-looking guy. Sporting a mohawk and Social Distortion hoodie, he is the kind of guy you would expect to see, honestly, and stereotypically, at a Democrat caucus. To see this guy rallying hordes of support for Dr. Paul must have been a very nerve-wracking experience for the rest of the attendees.

When the doors opened at 9:00, we proceeded into the library, and registered for the caucus. I met several very nice folks, and we talked a little about the procedures of the caucus, and just general getting-to-know-you discussion. At about 9:45, this older gentleman with a John McCain button sits down next to me. Being the nice guy I am, I introduced myself, and made some small talk.

Then he asked me who I was supporting.

“I’m a Ron Paul supporter,” I replied.

He just laughed and sat back in his chair.

The meeting started 10 minutes late for some unknown reason. The first item on the agenda was the election of a new chairman for the caucus. Two people were nominated. One by the Paul supporters, and one by, well, the other folks. We had such huge numbers, that our guy was elected to be caucus chair by a vote of somewhere around 45-35. That’s 45 Ron Paul supporters that showed up.

Then it was time to elect a new secretary. The old chairwoman was nominated for this position, in addition to Mr. Lauby. Imagine the surprise when Tyson won the election. Mohawk sporting, Social Distortion hoodie wearing Tyson. The McCain supporter next to me chose this moment to speak to me again.

“Who are you going to vote for in November?” he asked….(read more)

http://jabooty.org/st-lou…

When I arrived at the caucus location at about 10am, the parking lot was lined with Ron Paul signs. Almost every car in the parking lot had a Ron Paul sticker. There was a Ron Paul table in the entry staffed with people answering questions about how to participate in a caucus. I signed in, entered, and every single seat in the auditorium had upon it Ron Paul pamphlets outlining his stance on issues. I sat in the 5th District area on the left half of the auditorium, within earshot of the mainstay Republican crowd, which I’ll call the Ward Parkway Republicans, like good ole Claire McCaskill. There was a very long delay as people continued to file in. Candidates in upcoming elections, like Sarah Steelman, who is the Secretary of Treasury for Missouri and wants to become Governor, met and greeted up and down the aisles and spoke with anyone who would listen.

The meeting began, and a chairperson from among the established core group was quickly nominated and accepted. Bunk Farrington presided over the selection of a secretary, who was elected from among the Ron Paul supporters. He began taking minutes. Committees were quickly formed by nomination and immediate appointment by the chair, including a balance of folks from each faction. The agenda was presented by the Secretary. The agenda includes electing a slate of delegates for the district and, thusly, state conventions, deciding on amendments to the party platform, and any resolutions which should be forwarded on to the conventions. Some speeches were given by present office-holders and movers and shakers in the state legislature while the committees were working. Then, there was a long recess, while rules and procedures were read, and politicking went on in various parts of the auditorium.

After the break, resolutions to be passed along to the conventions were to be approved. There was one controversial resolution to change the party rule that delegates to the national convention must vote according to the winner of the primary election, but each delegate could vote their conscience. There was outrage and many red faces. That would make Missouri a caucus state for Republicans instead of a winner-take-all state. It passed, to the chagrin of the Ward Parkway crowd. Then, slates of delegates were to be nominated. The leaders from the Ron Paul faction, specifically Deb Wells, nominated a slate of delegates and alternates to include a mix of 107 Ron Paul supporters and 80 from the Ward Parkway establishment which had been discussed in a huddle of faction leaderships prior to the nominations. The chair accepted the nomination, thenone of the other Ron Paul supporter types, Michael Michelson, interjected, moving to debate what the chair was saying about a mixed slate of delegates alternating from two lists as being thenomination. Since it was a nomination, there wasn’t anything to debate, really, just take a vote up or down. There was a delay and some disruption from the audience, then the chair let the young man know that he could nominate an alternate slate, which could be voted upon, but the current nomination wasn’t up for debate. Mr. Michelson proceeded to nominate a slate consisting of 100% Ron Paul supporters without compromise or politics as usual. That was quickly seconded, and a debate ensued. Ross Perot was mentioned, tempers flared, someone who was out of order said it was time for the real Republicans to stand up. And everyone in the room stood. Then, there was some mumbling, and the chairperson stepped off the stage, faced the Ron Paul leadership and said “In politics, your word is your bond.”, then he stepped toward the exit along with the bunch on the left side of the auditorium who grabbed their things and left.

Again, there was a delay, because nobody knew how to proceed when the chairperson just leaves without adjourning. Many people pulled out copies of Roberts Rules of Order and began thumbing feverishly through it for guidance. Then, the rules committee reconvened briefly, there was some discussion and the secretary took over the chair position, being the senior person on the stage. Another secretary was elected. A parliamentarian was appointed by the chairperson. The meeting proceeded. Debate in favor of the and against the first slate of delegates took place, then debate about whether or not it was okay to vote on a slate which was no longer present at the meeting, since they had taken the list (and the rolls of attendees) away when they left, then we voted to continue to vote on the nominated list, even though it could not be read. That was okayed. Then there was a vote. It was very close. . . something like 62 to 70, so the mixed slate which was agreed upon between factions failed. The slate containing 100% Ron Paul delegates, including myself, passed. The irony is that if the Ward Parkway contingent had stayed, their agreed upon slate would have passed. After that, the meeting went on. There was debate about 18 or so platform items, and all but one or two of the items passed. Some comments were made and the meeting was adjourned.

How the press views what happened at this caucus may be positive or negative, but I saw how the system works in all it’s ugliness. I saw how an 18 year old kid, can throw the wrench into politics as usual, and how supporters of a cause can band together and make change happen. The question now is about whether or not the Ron Paul faction of the Republican party can maintain this momentum.

There was a lot of institutional G.O.P knowledge and experience in that room who took a big slap in the face when the mixed slate was not just immediately accepted. There are people who almost always go to the state convention who now cannot, including some sitting politicians. Now, because of a poorly attended caucus, all of the Jackson county delegates will be Ron Paul supporters. And it wouldn’t have been so, if the Jackson County Republican mainstays hadn’t acted like juveniles and walked out before voting.

Anyone know how many caucuses we took today? How many delegates do we have?

St. Charles for Ron Paul!!!!

I attended the St. Louis City caucus yesterday. Since I am not a Ron Paul supporter, I’d like to offer my perspective on the meeting.

The caucus began 10 minutes late simply because some of those who arrived shortly before 10:00 were still being checked in. As voting started for the positions of chair and secretary, it was clear that the Ron Paul supporters had the numbers to win the delegates for the 3rd District. They lost in the 1st.

There were some valuable lessons here:

To the Ron Paul supporters I would ask that you prove me wrong. I think that after you have grabbed your 15 minutes of fame at the convention you’ll disappear. It’s easy to whip people into a frenzy for a presidential election. It’s damn hard to hold their attention during the off-times. What we need in St. Louis City is more Republicans who join the Central Committee and work. We aren’t looking for one size fits all Republicans, but we do need people who work between elections when it’s not glamorous and the media isn’t paying attention to us. We’ll see what you are really made of when the convention is over.

To the stalwart Republicans who will not have the opportunity to go to the convention, I would say that we were harshly reminded that he/she who turns out his/her people to vote wins. Too many who said they would be there somehow did not see the need and stayed home. The result is that many who have worked hard in the trenches for years will sit out the convention so that the Ron Paul supporters can go to make their point.

Welcome to politics, folks.

Interesting. Comment #45 came from my blog, but I didn\’t post that comment here. Thanks to whoever did. You brought me some traffic!

In response to Corolla\’s comment:

I hope I can prove you wrong. My intent yesterday was not to necessarily support Ron Paul, but, rather, to support the ideals that he is promoting. I intend to get more information on joining the central committee, and working with the Republican party to help make it the party that I believe it can and should be.

I know that our side is fighting a losing battle right now, but it is something that I truly believe in, and I will fight that battle because I feel it\’s worth it.

I was on the slate for the 1st district that lost. If I had been selected to go to the state convention, I would have supported John McCain as the nominee. However, there is more at stake than the nominee here, too. The entire Republican Party platform is up for debate. THAT is where we can make our biggest impact right now, in my opinion.

I was a bit upset by the credentials committee\’s rules, I\’ll admit. I\’m a Republican, but I cannot support George W. Bush right now. To ask me to do so in order to be a delegate is offensive, in my opinion. This is why it is hard for me to claim membership in a party sometimes. The die-hard nature of a political party that doesn\’t allow for dissent or negative opinions on the current leadership is alienating to those who wish to be involved in the shaping and improving of the party. To require me to support a President who I feel is doing more harm than good to the country is not a dissent from the Repubican party, but rather, a dissent from the current administration — not the party he is representing.

Yesterday in Saint Charles County Missouri, the largest Republican County caucus in the state 111 of a possible 137 Delegates were elected for Ron Paul. The St. Charles Caucus was a landslide turnout for Ron Paul.

The Republican Platform was amended to oppose the Patriot Act, The Iraq war, the Federal Reserve, Fiat Currency, the Global American Empire, the income Tax, Estate Tax, Mccain Fieingold, the National ID Card, The Real ID Act of 2005 and much much more.

Kudo’s to Ron Paul supporters in Missouri!!

This was only one county in Missouri yesterday and it was happening all over the state. Please keep this bumped up…the GOP is freaking out and other states can do the same!!

This article is on the top of http://www.ronpaulforpresident2008.com

Seriously, people do you really think RP could be a President of the US? Seriously doubt it. He has the ignorant, stupid look on his face at all times. And he is whiny.

Congratulations to the Ron Paul supporters…but while you may have dominated the caucuses yesterday throught out the state, your conduct in doing so alienated many of the Republican party faithful which you will need to prevail. My fear is that all you have really accomplished is to hand the State of Missouri to the Democat candidates.

Die-hard Republicans should be ashamed that they chose to sleep in Saturday rather than show up at the caucuses. I understand the desire of the Ron Paul folks to make changes, but I would ask them to work within the party rather than show up at the last minute and hijack caucuses.

John McCain wasn’t my first choice either, but if the only choices this fall are McCain, Clinton or Obama, I am going to swallow hard and support McCain. While we are squabbling over procedure and hopeless candidates the Democrats will eventually unite behind one candidate and beat us just as the Ron Paul supporters defeated the “real” Republicans yesterday.

These past few months I have seen lots of phone calls and deal-making to determine who was worthy to go to the convention. It’s ironic how all that wheeling and dealing was for naught when Republicans couldn’t get their supporters to the caucuses and the Ron Paul folks could.

I mostly disagree with Ron Paul and his supporters, and I am sorely disappointed with the embarrassment that these tactics will bring Missouri, but I have to admit that the RP people beat the veteran politicians at their own game. For that I must grudgingly congratulate you.

Delamer,

Die-hard republicans did show up yesterday and vote Ron Paul. We did work under the party system. We didn’t hijack anything, we showed up at 10 like everyone else and voted. Neocons are the ones that hijacked the party, we are just taking it back right now.

Also remember that Ron Paul is still a choice and McCain is unelectable. With yesterday’s conservative win, McCain has 56 less delegates to the national convention while Dr. Paul has 56 more. This is a 112 delegate turnaround in just MO. Conservatives also won Texas, Nevada, Colorado, Washington and many other state caucuses. So you see “my friends” this revolution is for real.

Now, it was interesting that you should lament that all those “phone calls and deal-making to determine who was worthy to go to the convention” and that “all that wheeling and dealing was for naught.” That is EXACTLY the problem! Conservatives did not wheel and deal, we spread our message, and the message of liberty was strong enough to outnumber the message of the wheelers and dealers. The neocons have driven us to the brink of collapse but fortunately we have honorable people like Ron Paul still keeping the flame of freedom alive.

You seem like an articulate and intelligent person, I just think you are misinformed on Ron Paul and his supporters. I voted for Bush twice and still support the platform he ran under in 2000. Unfortunately he has abandoned this platform - luckily Ron Paul picked it up. Research Ron Paul and the issues and you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised.

THere’s a nice Alzeheimer’s unit I’d like to invite Ron to stay where he can get his medications regularly.

Folks, people like Bill above are the neocons we are fighting. Nothing substantive to say, just ridicule. Well bill, we can see you have no clothes and more and more people are waking up to this fact. Which part of Ron Paul policy don’t you like? Following the constitution? Freedom? Liberty? Peace? Prosperity?

Begone you vile weed!

Bottom line: We don’t care about “party loyalty”, we care about loyalty to our constituion. The neo-cons are the ones who have manipulated the elections. We are not giving up. And we will gain control of the party and return it to its small-government, fiscally conservative origins.

Another thing:

The primaries are not national elections. They are elections of a private club. That club is ruled by its ACTIVE members. The traditional conservative wing is going to be more active then the neo-conservative wing.
The GOP needs new blood, and they need our activism and fundraising ability to compete with the dems and the bias of the liberal media.

As posted on dailypaul.com

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/42866

My friend you are mistaken. The whole reason people don’t come to those central committe meetings is because you elect and push people like liberal John McCain. You deserve to lose the caucus because people that voted in the primary have no clue and listen to the television for two minutes and would never show up at a caucus because they have no clue how it really works, and idiotically think McCain was the frontrunner and vote without ever looking at his record.

The Ron Paul people are here to stay, except we won’t be baking cookies and having our little tea parties. We are here to recruit patriotic Americans that are sick of seeing their country go to hell by voting for the likes of McCain, Obama or Clinton. Do you seriously think Pro Life, Pro Second Amendment and illegal immigration enforment Conservatives will vote for John McCain who is totally against all of those things.

Give that up, McCain has already lost

In Missouri 2/3 of the voters, voted for someone other than McCain in the
Primary and we need to make sure that those voters are not disenfranchised with the idiotic winner take all system. Many Many Huckabee supporters are with us on this and we will change it at the state convention and make it retro active to the District Conventions which come first.

I am proud of all the hard work that was done yesterday in Missouri, and for many months past across the country to promote freedom and liberty through the campaign of Dr. Ron Paul. Let the creeps on this board and elsewhere ridicule us and build straw men of us that they can tear down - it doesn’t really matter because we are going to the caucuses, electing patriots, and taking the party back from fascism. We are not breaking rules or hijacking anything - the media has portrayed us as that, but the truth is that we are people of all stripes that recognize the importance of our Constitution in protecting the freedom and liberty of Americans. Many are simply angry that they are no longer getting their way. This is how revolutions are, with hard work and determination. I am excited to watch the same things happen in remaining states, like in North Carolina where I live.

Marcelo - I was the guy who organized the takeover of the St. Charles county caucus in 1996, for Pat Buchanan. I’m sure there are a few Buchanan people who stuck around and got involved, but I sure don’t know any of them. Had they done so, the Missouri Republican Party would be a very different organization than it is today. As a supporter of libertarian Republicanism, I hope you’re right, and that the Paul people will stick around. But I’m not holding my breath.

You are right when you say that 2/3 of Missouri voters voter for someone other than McCain. But you fail to mention that 95% of Missouri Republican voters voted for somebody other than Ron Paul. So obviously, we have a long way to go in educating the public about what we believe. Aside from welfare clients and the far left, our beliefs should have great appeal to people, once they understand it and can identify those who espouse it. I believe that a politically aware electorate WOULD vote for Ron Paul, and candidates of his ilk.

The problem is, Missouri didn’t. And what Paul supporters have done in these caucuses, though not an insignificant achievement from an organizational perspective, will be portrayed as disenfranchising Republican primary voters. I don’t think the portrayal is an unfair one. And I think if Paul had won a plurality in the primary, and the party regulars had used these tactics to take away Paul’s delegates, the same people who are applauding today would be screaming bloody murder.

Nick, those are not my words, I just posted them from another forum - which i guess makes them mine……

Anyhow, I agree with your analysis. However, Ron Paul supporters did get Louisianed and basically were disenfranchised by the GOP there so I don’t feel so bad.

The question I have is why have an expensive primary if delegates can change the rules? The system worked for RP supporters this time around and has worked for the neocons for a while, they are just finding this a problem now that they didn’t get their people in.

Anyhow, the problem is the system, in MO and elsewhere - so let’s change the system. RP are in a very disadvantaged position given the media bias, etc. The only weapon we have against the Goliaths is a slingshot, and we intend to use it.

Nick - You are correct in some areas of what you have said, however the disenfranchising you speak of is really just people who were willing to work hard rallied together and got involved in their local caucuses - and won in many cases. Everyone else was sleeping but they were there to stand up and fight for what was right. It is invigorating to see people standing for for a true conservative platform. The only ones disenfranchised are the old party heads and those who have truly hijacked the party for fascism. I really think as more and more people hear the message through this, quite the opposite will be true. There are millions who have been disenfranchised by the lies of President Bush, the liberalism of McCain, Romney, et. al. who will be revived through the Paul candidacy. I believe you are wrong in your assessment and hopefully you will see that if you don’t stand for something, as these Paul supporters did, you will fall for anything.

Andrew - Paul delegates would be disenfranchising those who voted in the Missouri Republican primary, not just “old party heads and those who have truly hijacked the party.” If libertarian Republicans flooded the party, the old party heads would be sitting at home watching television. But the time to do that was a couple of years ago, not yesterday. My personal preference would be that Missouri go back to being a caucus state, in which case Paul forces would have won a true victory yesterday. But that’s a legislative matter, not a party rule.

Marcelo, please tell me why the RP supporters waited until the caucuses to make this dead end power play. In the end your candidate loses, Missouri looks like easy pickings for the Dems, and you have alienated the party regulars. I say party regulars because they are the folks I see attending meetings, going door to door, phone banking, donating and performing all the other tasks month after month, year after year in the Republican party. They deserve more respect than the RP folks gave them.

If 95% of those who voted in Missouri did not support Ron Paul, you certainly have your work cut out for you. If your goal is to recruit us misguided Republicans through education, the only education we got at the St. Louis City caucus is that Ron Paul supporters want to show up late in the process and ignore all the rules. Plain and simple, that’s no way to win us over.

The dailypaul blog characterizes me as a McCain supporter. What I am is a Republican who, given the options of McCain, Obama and Clinton, will absolutely support McCain. Ron Paul may have many issues that I agree with, but he simply is not realistically one of the choices this time around, and I am willing to support someone I am not totally thrilled with in order to prevent the damage that Obama or Clinton would do to this country.

If you believe so passionately in Ron Paul and his cause, work within the party for change or start your own party. We were willing to work with you, but you chose to railroad the St. Louis City Republicans and many others like us across the state. In the end, we all lose.

Nick: Of course I understand what you also mean. There are some important factors though the others have not touched on.

According to estimates 1/3 in the GOP is against the war in Iraq, and 70% of Americans against it
According to polling after NH and later, McCain received the majority delegates/votes by 2/3 of anti-war Republicans and Independents. Most Independents in the US are AGAINST the war.
McCain also received the majority of GOP voters who are very critical of Bush. (See Matt Welch interview and articles at reason dot com Welch has also written a book about McCain).

I have read myself about people that support McCain as they say he is against the war, which is of course dead wrong. He is the biggest war- monger in actual fact and in 2000 he was the favorite of the neoconservatives actually. Also: his recent reception with the Bush endorsement AND also call upon Bush to campaign with him, he practically endorsed Bush, was a big mistake and testifies to his Bush-like idea, McBush and he will indeed be a Bush 3.

DO you think, given these realities, these delegates/voters will really vote for him (McCain) at the convention once whey have found out some probably already found out) that McCain is NOT the guy they thought they were voting for and Ron paul actually perfectly symbolizes the ideals they were voting for?

Also: McCain has publicly stated that should the situation in Iraq worsens in the months to come, it would probably cost him (or any pro-Iraq war candidate for that matter) the election. Plus he is very weak on economy and in debates. He won many votes because of his smile and jokes, but when people find out about his temper etc… The Iraq situation as well as the economy could may force the GOP to rethink their strategy if they really want to win the election. Consider also issues like the Real ID act etc. These are (also) issues that could well justify the GOP going for Paul (with a “slingshot”). Also: the loss of the Dennis Hastert seat to the Democrats last week I think, shows that there is no enthusiasm and strong financial support for the current GOP and many conservatives (not only those that voted for Ron Paul) simply do not vote for a McCain lead GOP. Consider also public remarks by Dr. James Dobson that he will never vote for McCain. The John Hagee endorsement of McCain has cost McCain a lot of potential voters with Catholics, who constitute a strong election base. Karl Rove has contributed the 2004 win of Bush over Kerry (where the Iraq war issue etc. was favoring Kerry) to the support of staunchly pro-life Catholics for Bush. So without the majority Catholic support (note: I am a Protestant) the GOP is doomed to failure. Bob Nowak has said at the beginning of the primaries he has heard from influential GOP insiders that they have (reluctantly) decided to go for McCain as maverick nominee, as he can has an appeal to Independents and soem Democrats people like Romney or Huckabee do NOT have. So, the GOP has a fighting chance with another maverick that has proven support from Independents as well as some Democrats as well, apart from Republican supporters: Ron Paul. The purple states are decisive in the election and with an enthusiastic grassroot support, strong and proven fund-raising ability and a philosophy and platform that offers everyone something , e.g. not an “ideological approach”, Ron Paul will just be see at the GOP’s best choice.

Hey Corolla,

I’m glad to hear you are not a McCain supporter, but i’m not surprised since hardly anybody supports him - is this the nominee we want to send to represent our party?

Now, I completely understand how you feel. Really, I do. Ron Paul supporters come in many different flavors but they basically represent the country and are republicans in the conservative tradition and not RINOs. We got blindsided and railroaded in the Louisiana Caucus process - the state GOP basically unilaterally extended the delegate registration process by two days when they realized most of those attending where Ron Paul supporters in order to rally the troops against us and build competing slates. Not only that, they kept many former independents and others who had switched to the republican party from voting. There is a lawsuit filed against the GOP of LA for this. They also pulled some “dirty tricks” and pooled the slates of other candidates together in order to keep RP delegates out. Mind you that at this point many of those in attendance were either new republicans that were attracted by Dr. Paul’s conservative message to the party or long term republicans that were enthused enough to become more active. I was incensed at how “dirty” the process was and how powerless we were to do anything about it. RP supporters resolved to play within the system (that from our point of view is stacked against us) to get our movement’s ideas across.

Also remember that loyalty works both ways - candidates towards the party and the party towards the candidates. Where was the National GOP when Fox news refused to invite Dr. Paul to the NH debate? Was this fair? Where was the GOP outrage when Dr. Paul was mostly silenced in the debates and when he was asked questions, they were not substantive or about policy, but rather of the sort of “are you koo koo?”.

So you see, we are working completely within the system to get our message out. We haven’t closed doors early to keep non-RP supporters out, or left door open late to ensure more RP supporters get in. Even Jared Craighead is apparently feeding misinformation by stating that Dr. Paul is a “former candidate” and making other claims.

So, we learned the system and prepared to compete. We organized and showed up and didn’t make any back room deals or phone calls or rewarded party “lstalwarts” with promises of trips to the state convention. We simply voted our conscience and played by the rules everyone played by.

How then is it possible that a movement that garnished such a small percentage of the vote in the primary obtain such results in the caucus? It is the message - who is against liberty? freedom? prosperity? peace? the constitution? Not Ron Paul supporters. The answer to this “enigma” lies in the power of the message - those that awaken and are actually able to hear the message support it feverishly. Since the election is not until November, there’s plenty of time to get the message out.

Peace

Marcelo - If what you say is true about the Louisiana caucuses, I agree with you 100%. And I can’t say that it would surprise me - party insiders often resort to “dirty tricks” if they think they can’t win honestly, and I’d bet that is more often true in Louisiana than most places.

Furthermore, I completely support the right of Paul supporters to attend the caucuses, present their own slates, elect their own delegates to the state and national conventions. Ron Paul’s political doctrine is, with a few exceptions, in complete harmony with my own. I part company with the Paul forces on only one matter: I believe it is unethical to seek to change party rules and unbind the delegates at this point in the process. I will not be any part of an effort to disenfranchise the Republican primary voters of this state, nor do I have any words of encouragement for those who seek to do so, no matter how much I agree with their ends.

Now, since a lot of you have posted “statistics” here with no source, let me post some REAL survey statistics. For those of you who care, links to sources follow.

* In head-to-head elections, McCain beats Clinton by 3, Obama by 4, according to Rassmussen.
* McCain ties Clinton, beats Obama by 3, according to Gallup.

And the better news for Republicans is, every Clinton v. Obama poll give an edge to Obama. So it looks like Democrats may walk the plank like they did with McGovern.

And as far as public opinion on the Iraqi war, the story isn’t a simple as you have made it out to be:

* First, Americans do overwhelmingly believe that the initial decision on Iraq was a bad one.
* Americans also overwhelmingly believe Bush has done a lousy job of managing the war.

But then, things get muddy. In a February USA Today/Gallup poll:

* 60% say we should stick to a withdrawal timetable, while only 35% say we should stay until things get better.
* 65% say we have an obligation to establish a reasonable level of stability and security before we withdraw.

And in the same poll:

* 67% believe Iraq will be better off because we took action there, only 26% say it will be worse.

And in a February Pew poll, 53% believe we will “probably” or “definitely” succeed in Iraq.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Marcelo, as long as part of the message is the elimination of Social Security, Ron Paul cannot win. Those of us at or near retirement age will make sure of it.

Hope you all enjoy the convention.

67posts on ron paul? Is Bill on this blog or what? What a waste; sorry to be bearer of bad news but Ron doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in h@## of doing anything or going anywhere period. Wake up and smell the roses.

Corolla,

I’m glad you mentioned social security. Under current economic conditions, it won’t be around for much longer. You are misinformed on Dr. Paul’s stance on this issue which is as follows:

Our nation’s promise to its seniors, once considered a sacred trust, has become little more than a tool for politicians to scare retirees while robbing them of their promised benefits. Today, the Social Security system is broke and broken.

Those in the system are seeing their benefits dwindle due to higher taxes, increasing inflation, and irresponsible public spending.

The proposed solutions, ranging from lower benefits to higher taxes to increasing the age of eligibility, are NOT solutions; they are betrayals.

Imposing any tax on Social Security benefits is unfair and illogical. In Congress, I have introduced the Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act (H.R. 191), which repeals ALL taxes on Social Security benefits, to eliminate political theft of our seniors’ income and raise their standard of living.

Solvency is the key to keeping our promise to our seniors, and I have introduced the Social Security Preservation Act (H.R. 219) to ensure that money paid into the system is only used for Social Security.

It is fundamentally unfair to give benefits to anyone who has not paid into the system. The Social Security for Americans Only Act (H.R. 190) ends the drain on Social Security caused by illegal aliens seeking the fruits of your labor.

We must also address the desire of younger workers to save and invest on their own. We should cut payroll taxes and give workers the opportunity to seek better returns in the private market.

Excessive government spending has created the insolvency crisis in Social Security. We must significantly reduce spending so that our nation can keep its promise to our seniors.

Dr. Paul’s extensive writing on this issue can be found at the following link.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/social-security/

After reading the articles above, you will find that he does NOT want to end social security for older Americans as misrepresented by those who want to continue to misuse the now non-existing funds meant for our elderly. He does want to allow younger workers to opt out into private retirement plans, which is a different issue.

Please do pass on Dr. Paul’s message on this issue to others.

I think post 56 applies to Robby.

To Nick

A list of reason why RP supporters felt cheated.

Early on, we won the Debate polls and AOL polls. FOXNEWS reported we were spamming, which wasn’t true, as their polls only allowed one vote per phone/IP adress.

FOXNEWS had Bill Kristol on claiming Paul was a 9/11 truther.

Polls were conducted, which the media based their proportional coverage on. A friend of mine who worked for a polling company told me he didn’t get why so many people were upset RP wasn’t an option. In his words, they were told to explain that he WASN”T A VIABLE CANDIDATE!

We had a mole sabotage our voter database at the IOWA HQ. This same mole sabotaged operations in Michigan and Alaska.

The Jamie Kirchick newsletter hitpiece was timed to be released the weekend before the NH primary. Kirchick was an admitted Guiliani supporter, and he said on his blog he was just doing the story to get web hits. He distorted the facts and selectively edited the quotes to make them appear worse then they were.

In Nevada, where we new we were going to do well, the State GOP changed the caucus locations 4 TIMES the week before the vote. Our campaign was scrambling, and it took all their resources just to keep updating the voters on the right locations.

After our second place finish, which would have given us momentum, there wasn’t a peep out of the MSM. In fact, FOXNEWS showed the 3rd and 4th place leaders in early coverage, but would not show Paul’s lead.

The New York Times, and several other websites, didn’t even list Paul as a candidate till after Super Tuesday on their election pages.

Of course there was FOXNEWS not inviting Paul to the NH debate, even after he had already gotten higher in Iowa the Thompson and Guiliani, who were invited.

There was a recou