Jared Craighead should go. The State Party had advanced warning that this was going to happen, they should have been prepared. Since Governor Blunt announced his decision to not run again Jared has been worried about his future (new house, new baby) and not focused on his job. And any time he can we works on Kenny Hulshof’s campaign for Governor because Andy Blunt is working for him and whatever Andy says Jared does. Andy is getting a 100K win bonus. Anyone want to speculate on why ethical Kenny said legislators and Governor’s family could own ethanol subsidized stock? You need wonder no longer.

I bet there will be some explaining to do during the next state meeting. Questionable expenditures and taking sides in the primary will definately be on the agenda. Jared should focus on his job for awhile.

There is something plainly unethical about not allowing “view only” access for party members (whom have a need to know) to this information. Even if the data on hand is not complete, the data the state party does have will not change except in challenge. Partial data is therefore useful for review.

There can only be one motive for not allowing access, and that is to prevent timely review. There can only be one motive to prevent timely review, and that is to prevent challenges. There can only be one motive to prevent challenges, and that is to prevent “mistakes” from being corrected.

One can therefore reason that if there is a motive to prevent mistakes from being corrected, then those mistakes must be there intentionally. Fraud is not only actionable within the party… but would have potential criminal consequence as well.

IDo hope the STL today stays on top of this story. American politics and the process need transparency and a lot more credibility regarding elections and the process. I hope Ron Paul in this state file challenge of the reports should the Party not issue results by Monday afternoon. The issues of credibility and integrity are too high for errors or willful actions of a few party lifers.

Sounds like Mr. Craighead is being deliberately obstructive, and one has to wonder what he has to hide. He obviously intends to keep all the caucus reports hidden away until the deadline for challenging them has passed. Why have such a deadline at all, if the reports cannot be scrutinized before it passes? If Craighead is not doing something fraudulent and possibly criminal, he should certainly waive any “deadline” for challenges until after the reports have been released and possible challengers have had a reasonable amount of time to examine them.

Open Source elections and Open Source Government.
’nuff said.

The reason for a deadline is to prevent arguing to go on ad infinitum. Fraudulent results can be perpetrated by simply arguing until your opposition runs out of energy or resources. Therefore moving the deadline is no answer. The only answer for HONEST results is for the state party to provide immediate, and open access to all information as soon as it is available. Any other action can only be motivated by fraud or incompetence. Fraud by incompetence, is still fraud.

I know Kenny Hulshof personally and hopefully he’s not an untouchable Repube now so I suppose I will lay the hammer down on him. This is total BS!

Does Craighead have ties to GOP mobster Jack Abramoff? Based on my internet browing, apparently he does.

If he is not careful, he may be serving time himself is he commits criminal activity.

I think that the first thing the Missouri GOP must do is rid itself of corruption.

This Craighead character is apparently yet another Likudnik mole attempting to thwart the true Conservatives of this country from getting an honest election. The Israeli-backed Neocons want Hillary versus McCain, and they will do anything to achieve that goal.

According to the Missouri GOP Rules and the Call to Convention all Local Caucus delegate lists and other vital information have to be sent via email or mail to his office within 72 hours of the caucus adjournment. Why then, 2 days after this deadline, is he “still waiting for county results” ? All he is doing is giving time for people to mess with lists and pull the “Old Guard” Republican tricks. Why are they so afraid of Real Conservatives?

At the Jackson County Caucus, there were 41 people signed on the register that were not present in the meeting. Yes, THAT voter register the County Committee Chairman STOLE from the caucus members. I’ll give you one guess which side those 41 phantom people were from. They were not on the side of the Ron Paul Conservative Values slate - just to narrow it down.

Oh Boy, Here we go again… I feel as if I live in the Twilight Zone.. What is the matter with these people.. And they call us nuts.. This is nuts..Un-freakin’-believable.. This is just another example of why we need Ron Paul.. Peace

C’mon guys, the revolution has to start somewhere. Why not the “SHOW ME” state?

This is a riot! Who are these people?

There are people posting here that have never had anything to say before about political issues in St. Louis or Missouri — and I think it’s funny.

I’ve had the chance to see some of the amendments that your “freedom” people put up to the platform, and if you think that mainstream republicans feel that way, you’re just nuts!

As an outsider looking in — my only ties with Missouri are owning shares in a couple Missouri-based corporations and having worked for a firm with a major facility there — I can’t know what the exact rules there may be.

From what I’m reading here, it sounds to me as if there is no reason not to file challenge objections to the ENTIRE SET of results sight unseen, since the deliberate failure to release them until after the deadline necessarily makes it impossible to file results to specific ones.

When any official gets all bristly and indignant at having his integrity questioned even as his patent failure to enforce the rules on timely submission has created the Catch-22 behind which he appears to be shielding himself, questioning his personal integrity become obvious and mandatory.

Seems to me that somebody ought also in parallel to seek an injunction to set aside the objection/challenge deadline given the prima facie failure of party official to follow their own rules.

If there is anything one for which one can fault grassroots campaigns — all of them, not just Ron Paul’s — it is a rather childlike assumption that if they follow the rules scrupulously they will be treated honestly and fairly.

Here, if the McCain campaign is perfectly willing to consign the country to a hundred more years of bully-boy carnage in Iraq and Lord knows where else, why on earth would they even hesitate to play dirty with a bunch of outraged Goldwater Republicans who still believe this is a free country and that the rule of law still operates?

After all, their boy is a staunch ally of a President who has been quoted as saying — before a number of high-ranking Republicans! — that our Constitution is a goddamn piece of paper. Their guy is the proud co-author of legislation (”McCain-Feingold”) that blatantly violates the plaintext of the First Amendment.

Nowadays one cannot always rely on the notion that being decent and honest and civil will carry the day. It worked for Ronald Reagan, and someday it may work once more. But these are troubling times and tough measures are called for. Reagan himself said, “Trust but verify,” and here there is ample evidence that trust is misplaced.

Stronger measures are called for.

We are now running our elections here in much the same way as dictators run their sham elections. If the Establishment parties, the Democrats and Republicans, don’t get the rightist and leftist ideologues they want from a given election, they pull whatever fraudulent stunt they can to get what they want. Since McCain assures continuance of their War in Iraq, they are willing to settle for him since Romney or Giuliani would have assured Republican defeat this fall. They will in all likelihood get defeat anyway. I sure as hell do not plan to vote for a Republican! (And probably not a Democrat, either.)

Has Craighead broken any laws?

I am trying to find a law that he has broken but I’m not having much luck so far. I did find the following at http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/chapters/chap115.htm :

Caucuses, delegates for national conventions.
115.776. The state party organization which is the state organization recognized by the national organization of that established political party shall, after the primary and before the national convention, conduct a series of caucuses culminating in congressional and state conventions. Delegates to the national conventions shall be chosen at the congressional district and state conventions pursuant to rules established by the political parties.

(L. 1998 S.B. 709, A.L. 1999 H.B. 676)

I also found the Missouri Republican State Committee bylaws at http://www.mogop.org/docs/mrsc_bylaws_07.pdf :

Under the “Removal” section it says “…any court of competent jurisdiction has found that the member has engaged in an act of moral turpitude, that the member has acted in a manner contrary to the objectives of the MRSC as defined in the Bylaws of the MRSC, or that the member has prevented the conduct of MRSC business in an orderly manner. In any case, the movants must state that in their prudent judgment the actions complained of meet the following standard: that the actions would cause a loss of confidence by the public in the proper functioning of the committee as a statutorily functioning body, and/or that the actions complained of would negatively affect the State Committee’s ability to pursue the objectives of the State Committee as stated in the Bylaws.”

Further down in the by-laws, you can request a “Special Meeting” with signatures of 29 party member (i.e. All the Ron Paul supporters) to address the issue of Craighead withholding information.

“Section 2. Special Meetings
a. Special meetings of the MRSC may be called at any time by the State
Chairman, by the Vice Chairman acting in the capacity of State Chairman,
or by any twenty-nine (29) members of the MRSC who sign a notice for
such a meeting.
b. Only such new business as has been set forth in the notice calling for a
special meeting shall be transacted at said special meeting.”

Why don’t the Ron Paul people come clean on how they got information on St. Louis Co. Rita Carlson got into her sick mothers computer and took information without her mother knowledge. There have been reports that asked thses people if they were for Ron Paul and they denied it.
I maybe be old fashioned but if you have to be dishonest about what you are doing it cannot be GOOD!!!

Let the R3volution continue…Juan Mcwar??? Come on, our party is better than that.

I think i agree with steve r on this one and let me say very well put, Steve.

To everyone else, I live in Chicago now - and what we are seeing happening in these STL stories is what all of you make fun of Chicago politics/cubs fans/whatever for in your (unfounded?) pride in your City, State and chosen way of life. You deride and crack jokes at the windy city for massive corruption (which leads to things being more expensive than they should be when you come here), lack of credibility, random indictments/arrests from time to time and despite all that a machine that perpetuates itself; no matter how ineffectual or unresponsive to the constituents’ desires they may be. Ever wonder how that happens?

Well, its all laid out in front of you in plain-view right now. These are the tools and mechanisms of classic machine politics. The only relevant question and focus at this point is not, “what is going on or what really happened?” thats a fait accompli - but rather, what are you going to do about it? I think Steve’s points above are a good starting point. Demand accountability! If not for you, then for the principle that you can still claim to be better than all the likely 2008 NL Central winning Cubs fans!! (as you can see i’m really reaching to agitate you enough to stir you to action)

On a serious note, do your really want your whole state to go the way of the windy city? Think about that for awhile before responding.

As an aside, I commend this paper for both publishing this story, the previous one, and allowing comments. Thank you.

Mr. Craighead is at least being evasive because as far as I know he did not tell our people that they were still accepting filings, which would seem relevant to tell them. It would not be obvious since the Call to Convention says that the caucus chairman and secretary “shall file” the documents with the state chairman “within 72 hours following adjournment.” The 2008 Caucus and Convention Calendar says the documents are due “AT THE MRP HEADQUARTERS” on March 18th. They’re allowing more time but it makes me a little concerned that we need to be extra careful to review the filings.

Nonetheless, the deadline for challenging delegates is express, saying those challenges “must be physically in the office” by 5 PM Tuesday. So the point still holds that YOU CAN’T CHALLENGE DELEGATES WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, NOR CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT YOUR DELEGATES ARE PROPERLY FILED.

The same document says that such challenges will be settled at the convention. Thus, improperly placed delegates have the right and are expected to go to the convention, which means if someone has filed a list of phantom delegates and we can’t find that out or don’t have recourse for that possibility, THEY will be the ones allowed into the convention, rather than us. It is thus IMPERATIVE that we see the lists.

I’ve left a message with Mr. Craighead that suggesting they be clear that they are extending the deadline to challenge delegates since challenges must be in writing and state evidence.

I hope my nose is wrong but this smells like criminal wrongdoing in the making. This is going to cause nothing but trouble for state Republican candidates.

They are playing chicken.

If the Paul campaign files a successful legal challenge, I believe the result might be loss of ballot access for the GOP in Missouri. The Paul campiagn might back off.

We should make it clear that WE won’t, and if they don’t file the challenge, we will. I’ll call the NJ ACLU president tomorrow. I’m sure they would love to take the case if Craighead pulls a fast one.

The primary used state election apparatus. Violation of their own by-laws is grounds for loss of ballot access in the next election. That would be the upcoming presidential election.

Here’s where attorneys should be brought to handle. This is usurpation of power and it shoun’t be tolerated at any cost. This puts the lectoral process in this country at the level of a banana republic.

So Debbie… when would you like us to show up in Jefferson City for moral and vocal support ? I live 20 minutes away and can be there no problem.

Coming Soon….

PROJECT SUNSHINE… Sending the grey coulds over to the McCain camp…!

We the People standing up for themselves could make it more expensive for the globalist to install their puppets.

Gravel Kucinich Paul Nader
will help
Jared Craighead
clear roadblocks
to SHARE
‘ludicrous’ truth.

What’s funny about the Ron Paul backers on here is that they proclaim to be interested in the ideas of freedom and democracy, and that they are all about the ‘power of the people.’

Yet, the rules they are pushing would strip the results of the primary, and the rules that were understood and accepted by all beforehand, and replace them with results and rules that better represent what they want. In short, they want to change the score of the game after everyone should be off the field.

A heck of an idea on listening the the voice of the people, huh?

Nick Haynes, the delegates that went to the County conventions were elected BY THE PEOPLE IN THEIR PRECINCTS. It doesn’t get any more grass roots, for the people, than that. This is something that the political hacks on the top CANNOT manipulate.

Do your homework next time you make such a silly comment next time.

I called the Secretary of State. Our recourse as the TRUE REPUBLICANS is to file personal lawsuits against the Party. I’m DOING IT!

I would like to have some advice from anyone with a legal background. I am planning on submitting an injunction by Tuesday morning. I would like to know where these need to be submitted and how it should be worded.

Thank you in advance,
A Jackson County Delegate wanting to know if he was disenfranchised

It’s time to recognize there are now two types of repubs - Hamiltonians, who actually like big central govt telling them what to do, who don’t understand monetary policy and who like to pass out goodies to big businesses, and old guard Republicans, who like small govt, minimal intrusion, and a strong currency.

The Ron Paulites are at war with the Hamiltonians just as much as with the Dems. They’ll lose, because understanding sound monetary policy requires reading Austrian economics, Bastiat and the like, and most GOP’ers are lazy “America First” nonthinkers.

Not so fast. Our County was delayed in sending in our reports because we had problems finding the Ron Paul delegates to get the necessary information to submit the paperwork.

i would bet anything that jared jarhead is anti ron paul and is doing the slimy thing that the gop is doing al over the country - whatever he can to block ron paul delegates all their due delegate status.
unfortunately, he is probably misinformed and underestimates ron paul supporters.

I can not reveal too much , but this has just begun . The March 15th caucus was just a test . And we have proven that we can win .

Now we let the games begin , goodbye old GOP . Goodbye Craighead .

Never underestimate the power of conviction to OUR America .

Welcome to the New World Order folks! Egghead Craighead is just following orders.

Yes, Jarhead is against Ron Paul. McCain received a plurality of the vote in Missouri’s primary, and were it held today, with only the candidates who remain in the race, he’d receive a strong majority. Obviously, the MRP is going to support McCain - and they should. This does NOT, however, give them the right to break the rules.

As far as the responses which Paul supporters have suggested here:

1. Filing lawsuits costs money. Be prepared to spend several thousand dollars just to get in the door. Yes, you can do it pro se, and then it justs costs you the filing fee. But then, be prepared to lose. If you are right on the facts, but don’t get the court procedures and terminology right, they will toss you right out the door.

2. Paul supporters did not win a majority of delegates to the state convention. And even if you did, the executive director and staff of the MRP are all against you, so you will lose a fight with the party.

3. Scott, the “29 signatures” isn’t just any 29 Republicans, it is 29 members of the MRSC - that stands for the Missouri Republican State Committee. So snagging 29 Ron Paul supporters from your caucus and sending in a letter isn’t going to cut it.

4. All the gleeful talk about hurting the GOP in November just shows you for what you are: Supporters of a man, but NOT supporters of the party. Which is precisely the problem. If you support Ron Paul, but only support the Republican party so long as it supports Ron Paul, you aren’t a Republican, you’re a Paulist, or Paulite, or whatever …

You guys can bang your heads against a wall from now until the state convention, it won’t do you any good. I suggest you come down to Branson, enjoy the party, get together a crew of conservatives, and start working toward the 2012 election. An effort to reshape the party in the image of somebody who only got 5% of the Republican vote isn’t going anywhere.

To Nick Kasoff. We, the supporters of Ron Paul, intend on restoring the party back to it’s original principles before it was hijacked by the Neocon thugs. We may be too young to remember the party’s principles but let me give you a taste of what is in store.

1. You will find that are pockets are deep from the grassroots supporters, and we will fight corruption and the political inbreeding that has developed within our Grand Old Party. Our supporters are gaining momentum every day that goes by, as they despise McCain and all of the liberal platforms that he has supported over the years.

2. The State of Alaska GOP delegates (State convention) is strickly made up of Ron Paul supporters. Expect to see them in Minnesota.

3. George Bush and his policies have been an unmitigated disaster for this country and it’s citizens. We need to get back to real Conservatism, not this NeoCon crap. The energy President has performed his job well. Corporate energy concerns have reaped record profits year after year on the back of American consumers. I am sure that McCain will follow in his footsteps.

Is Bush the worst U.S. president ever?
http://www.thestar.com/Canada/Columnist/article/349621

4. How can we as conservative Republicans expect to back a Republican candidate who has not only recieved the endorsement of Joe Lieberman, a leading Democrat, but may potentially be John McCain’s runnig mate; as in VP.

Lieberman Backs McCain For President
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuCy3wULAy0&NR=1

McCain ruminates about running mates
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-mccain13mar13,1,7860071.story

5. You seem somewhat provencial in your thinking. You may want to read up on what’s going on around you in your world. You may like it.

Alaska Belongs To Ron Paul
http://pressmediawire.com/article.cfm?articleID=18469

Signed, A Reagan Republican who is ready for change for the positive.

Concerned Citizen - Ron Paul does not have all the delegates from Alaska. We have 5 delegates and 5 alternates.

We should have had 14 to McCain’s 12, but as with the problems we’re encountering here in Missouri, the GOP of Alaska ignores it’s own rules if it doesn’t like the outcome.

No doubt, there are bad things going on at the state party level here in Missouri. But is the Paul campaign going to fund legal challenges? If not, they probably won’t happen. Concerned Citizen is wrong when he says that “pockets are deep from the grassroots” - generally, pockets are pretty shallow, but extremely wide, which means there is plenty of money to be raised, but an organization has to exist to do it. Very few, if any, are going to personally toss ten grand into a legal challenge on a delegate slate, and even if they were, they’d have a hard time finding a lawyer with the knowledge to handle the case. This is something which has to come from the campaign itself, or it won’t happen at all.

Personally, as an active Republican of many years, I’m ashamed at the conduct of Jarhead and his associates at the MRP. Had they graciously accepted the outcome, they would still control the convention, but would also have won the support and loyalty of the Paul supporters, which would be a powerful force in elections to come. Instead, they have created hostility and disloyalty. Dumb move. But hey, at least there should be some excitement in Branson.

Hi, Nick. It’s been a long time. Hope you are doing well. If you’ve got a few minutes to spare, I’d like to talk to you. Please email me at dhopper@ronpaul2008.com with your phone number.

Nick you’re right and wrong. Our loyalty is not to the party. But it is not specifically to Ron Paul. Rather it is to the Constitution, and the REPUBLIC for which it stands.

To someone else, as a Paul supporter, I am not all about democracy, or the voice of the majority. I am about individual liberty. The founders were wary of the tyranny of the majority. That is why fundamental rights are safeguarded against the whims of the mob.

What a load of crap. The vast majority of the country has rejected Ron Paul and will continue to do so no matter what shenanigans his followers try to pull. Their holier than thou attitudes reveal their true feelings that “they are the truth” and any one who disagrees with them are not “true” Republicans. What a crock.

I participated in the St. Charles cauces in 1996 and on March 15th. Contrary to Mr. Kasoff’s recollections, the 1996 caucues in St. Charles the predominite unruly people were Buchannan people. The Buchannan people didn’t know the rules or what they were doing and the “establishment” had to help them with parlimentary issues etc.

Likewise the Paulites had no clue what they were doing on March 15th. They had caught the car, just barely, and then they weren’t sure how to get done what they came to do. It wouldn’t surprise me since they didn’t seem to know where anything was or exactly what to do to find out that they did not follow the rules and their delegate selection process was all wrong.

Despite their protests, Paulites do want to change the rules after they lost miserably. That attempt will only result in the continued loss of credibility. They haven’t much to spare.

To “Jackson”

You are correct when you say:
“reveal their true feelings that “they are the truth” and any one who disagrees with them are not “true” Republicans. What a crock. (except for the ‘crock’ part)

Those are our true feelings. But, they are not just ‘feelings’, they are positions backed up by history, the Founding Fathers, and lots of research. See…we tend to think about things and look at political philosophy such as Free Market Economics and the Enlightenment that gave us our Constitution. I know,…”good” Republicans aren’t supposed to think or evaluate the leaders of the party and are just to follow their horse-race masters. But, I am far too ethical and moral to do that. In other words, I’m a patriot.

And, additionally, we haven’t “lost miserably”. We have barely begun….See, you still don’t get it. It is not just a man (although I think Dr. Paul is noble and the greatest patriot in Congress for a long time), but it is indeed a movement. And…you can thank us later. But, that may be a decade down the road. Again, we have just begun….

Ron Paul received about 4% of the vote in Missouri in the Feb. primary.

Every time I hear a Paul supporter claiming that they are in the majority, based upon their attendance at county caucuses, the rest of what they say pretty much sounds like, “blah, blah, blah …”

Funny, when I read about the earlier primary results, there was no majority, for any candidate. So, “blah, blah, blah, crooked as hell” seems to be coming from the Republican establishment.

It is outrageous to say that the deadline to contest information is Tuesday and then indicate that he might not even get to look at ANY of the documents until after Tuesday.

What kind of red tape is that? Someone ought to be fired for this underhanded practice for that is surely what it is whether it is intentional or not.

I find the repeated comparison to the founding fathers to be yet another sign the Paulites continue their highly over stated, delusional attempt to convince others to think they are noble in their purpose. I could agree with delusional but noble is out of the question. And if there were practice caucus sessions, well there should have been a whole lot more because the practice didn’t help.

It’s true no active Republican candidate got a majority in the primary but every one of the active Republican candidates got more than Ron Paul did in the primaries. Paul received about 7 times less of a percentage of the vote as the lowest active Repubilican candidate.

Ron Paul may not be the “movement” but he is the representative of the “movement”. It is clear to everyone but the Paulites that America has rejected their “movement” no matter how noble they attempt to make it sound. Perhaps Shakespeare decribed the Paulites best “full of sound and fury signifying nothing”.

” Ron paul received about 4% of the vote in Missouri in the Feb. primary”

Ron Paul is still virtually unknown to the average american person, especially in MO, a state where, to my knowledge, he never campaighned. Most voters will only consider what is pounded into their head day in and day out by mass media outlets. In my very small precinct where I was able to speak to some of the voters 2 days before the election by going house to house, only one home had heard of him, and most were undecided on who to vote for- yet they they all claimed to be conservative, prolife, pro-gun individuals yet many did not have a candidate in mind not even 2 days before super Tuesday. I was able to leave some literature with these people and I believe through signs etc. that there was an impact in my precinct. The precint voted 15% for Dr. Paul. This would represent basically the people that I spoke with. I believe if the people were to understand his views and the source and reasoning behind the views from a scientific, and logical standpoint there would be an even greater belief in his ideas,if not the man himself. But the only media attention that he can get says that he can’t win, or he’s crazy, or any other number of subtle slights. Few have stopped to see that in his eyes and the eyes of others who follow him, the Consittution was written for a reason as a guiding and limiting document for our Federal government. When was the last time, reader ,YOU actually read the Constitution? The document even with the amendments is amazingly simple. Yet he is ridiculed for wanting to limit our Federal Government to the roles spelled out in this document. Why is that such an outlandish thought? Shouldn’t all of our legislators and representatives, who swear to uphold that document, be thinking the same thing? It has been unfortunate that the only media wagon he can catch a ride on is a negative one. The last media surge in reporting for Dr. Paul claimed that he had dropped out of the race and stopped the campaign- which turned out to be patently false… the entire AP and other news services repeated the same lie for the entire day- even NPR picked it up. The retractions were not nearly as prevelanet is the rumurs of his demise. Furthermore, on a national baisis McCain has not even come close to a ground swell of support. He came out on top becuase the majority of conservative Republicans split their votes 3 ways on super tuesday between Paul, Huckabee, and Romney. McCain just happened to be standing there long enough to pick up the pieces from states like MO where a 1% point win will give you the entire state delegate count. At the state convention it should not just be the Paul supporters voting to overturn the winner take all system, but the Huckabee and Romeny supporters as well. Ron Paul has truly begun a movement and hopefully it will not stop this fall, but rather bring back to the Republican party an era of conservative fiscal responsibility which limits government and supports a government which allows freedom to its citizens in their thoughts and actions. Anything less will just be more of the same.

To Jackson - Again:

Once again, you make claims using the propaganda tactic knows as “fallacy of majority approval”. You claim Conservatives are delusional and that our task is not noble, but again provide no evidence, no perspective, and no counter-position to back up your claim. 75% of the Colonial population in the 1770’s were Tories, Loyalists, or too scared to give up their peace of mind and money (sort of like our ‘Survivor’ and ‘American Idol’ and happy homeowner culture). You claim that a movement is not noble bacause the vast majority is too dumb or complacent to understand it is the ultimate irony. It was the minority of thinking men and women of the original revolution that saw through the tyranny and found principles of enlightenment and individual rights were the answer.

You are a typical Neo-con (or neocommunist if you prefer).

JarHead!

i personally have taken some expertise from jeff paul and honestly speaking i have not found any negative thing about him. I will agree to a point that someone might have not benefited from him but we simply can not deny the fact that there are spill over effects in every industry. my friends even have taken entrepreneurship from him and all of then have benifited from it.