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04.28.2008 8:13 pm

Point/Counterpoint with Carnahan/Scott on Mo’s defunct photo ID law

Monday’s U.S. Supreme Court ruling in favor of Indiana’s mandate requiring voters to produce a government-issued photo ID produced a lot of reaction in Missouri.

Some of the best analysis of the impact in Missouri, from both sides, came from Secretary of State Robin Carnahan, a critic of the photo ID requirement, and from state Sen. Delbert Scott, R-Lowry City, one of the original sponsors of the photo-ID law that the Missouri Supreme Court struck down in 2006.

Because the state high court ruled that Missouri’s requirement violated the state’s constitution, the decision wasn’t affected by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling.

At issue now: will photo-ID supporters seek to resurrect Missouri’s law? Doing so will require a statewide vote.

Here’s the assessments of Carnahan and Scott, both from interviews with my colleague — reporter Adam Jadhav — who worked with me on a story for Tuesday’s Post-Dispatch.

First, Scott:

“I think the (U.S. Supreme Court) ruling itself shows that Missouri’s attempt to provide fair elections was right on target and did not disenfranchise people,” he said.

“This allows us to feel sure in going back to address the Missouri state Supreme Court’s ruling.”

“The encouraging part is that it the U.S. Supreme Court is saying that a photo id requirement does not disenfranchise people and that it is a reasonable way to provide some validity and security in elections,” Scott continued.

“When you provide a free photo id, which is no more of a burden than you have to have to get on a plane or go to the store and rent a video, it’s just not something that is a hurdle for voters.”

Still, Scott acknowledged that it was unlikely that a new Missouri version could be in place by the November presidential election.

“It would be very difficult in the three weeks remaining to get something — that the Democrats will make very controversial — passed through the legislature.”

“And even if it’s passed and signed and then approved by voters in August, the Democrats will challenge this thing. That’s without question…”

Now, Carnahan:

“(The SCOTUS decision) doesn’t change the fact that the Missouri Supreme Court found a voter ID law unduly burdensome based on our own state constitution,” she said.

“If folks wanted to change Missouri’s constitution, they didn’t need to wait for the United State’s Supreme Court to tell them they could. So I think this ruling doesn’t really change anything.”

“My reading of the court’s opinion is that justices didn’t think there was sufficient evidence of burden and sufficient evidence of voters that would be harmed in the Indiana case.”

Carnahan noted in a statement sent Monday that, based on her office’s data, as many as 240,000 Missouri registered voters might have been prevented from voting because they lacked a drivers license — the most common form of government-issued photo ID.

She also had filed a legal brief with the U.S. Supreme Court laying out her office’s concerns. “One of the things that we did in our amicus brief was try to tell the story of regular people who would be hurt by this kind of law,” Carnahan said.

“Look, I’m in favor of reasonable laws. I’m in favor of people having to identify themselves, but we already do that here in Missouri.”

She also observed: “If the Legislature and the governor decide they want to take that action to pursue a constitutional amendment, that’s what they can do. I don’t think they’ll choose to do that.”


				
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15 comments

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I suggest here and now that Ms Carnahan is either a startled political hack, terrified for her own future at the public trough, or that she is a fool.

I know that she is no fool.

240,000 people… a number that one can only assume comes from the number of people voting, against the number holding driver’s licenses.

What person outside an institution can live today without a ID? The elderly? How do they cash a check? How do they get their Social Security? Their Medicare? The poor you say? How do they get their federal or state aid? Their WIK? Their food stamps? Their Medicaid? Each requires identification.

Might there be a person or people that are so far ‘off the grid’ that they not only don’t have any of those needs… none at all? I concede that there might be some small number, true enough. But if they can come forward to be, first registered to vote, then again to vote might they also be able to come forth and seek a free ID card?

No, I say that a good number of those don’t have a driver’s license or any other form of ID for one simple reason… that they do not exist… except on election day. And further that Ms Carnahan knows this.

Every victory of every statewide office holder belonging to the Democratic Party comes on the votes cast in Jackson County and in the City of St. Louis. This too, Ms Carnahan knows. The City has seen vote fraud on a massive scale… in the resent past sending several people to prison for it. How many were not caught… for it has been going on for years beyond count?

My own Great Uncle voted in every election, local state and federal from 1952 through 1977 when the city made note that the building at his address had been torn down. I remember this because my Grandfather got a good laugh out of all this… as his older brother had died in 1949, AND was never a citizen of the US. He never voted while alive.

No fool is Ms Carnahan… she knows that if any sizable part of those 240,000 votes go away that she would very likely not be able to win statewide office again. And with a ID requirement that is exactly what will happen.

— tsquare
9:59 pm April 28th, 2008

Ms Carnahan is afraid that the thousands of bodies interred in Calvary Cemetery will not be allowed to vote without proper ID as they have magically done in the past.

— Joe
2:33 am April 29th, 2008

The real issue is the lack of voter fraud. How many voter fraud cases had Indiana prosecuted in the years before it passed its voter id law? ZERO. NADA. NONE.
The intent of these laws is to shut certain people, mostly Dems, out of the system. We know that.
Ike Skelton couldn’t have voted under Delbert Scott’s law. Not that Delbert would care.

— Darren01
9:30 am April 29th, 2008

Perhaps there should be an IQ test and a minimum requirement for voting. Then guys like Delbert Scott and Rod Jetton couldn’t vote.

— Darren01
9:31 am April 29th, 2008

Careful what you wish for Darren01. If we required either IQ or a basic intelligence test for voting, you would never see another democrat elected.

— Amazedbythelunacy
9:59 am April 29th, 2008

I can think of more than a few Repubs who would be in trouble, Amazed.
Did you see the Pew Research study done a year ago that counted Fox News (right wing) viewers as the least intelligent in terms of national and international events? Fox claims a “reality bias” in the testing, I hear.

— Darren01
10:24 am April 29th, 2008

T-Squat:

As a former employee of DHS let me point out a couple things.

Photo ID’s aren’t required to establish Medicaid Benefits, SS benefits, receive WIC (not WIK) or Food Stamps. A combination of utility bill, SS cards and paystubs (depending on benefit applied for) are accepted. The fact that you know none of this shows your detachment from this issue and speaks volumes more than your poor-people-hating posts ever could.

Then T-Squat said: “But if they can come forward to be, first registered to vote, then again to vote might they also be able to come forth and seek a free ID card?”

Well, an 80 yr old that has been registered for thirty years at the same polling place doesn’t need to re-register. Additionally, polling places are intentionally close to peoples residences so getting out to vote isn’t even close to the same effort required to travel to the County Seat to file an affidavit showing they can’t afford the costs of getting an ID and then a trip to the License Office.

By the way…

Why aren’t the documents shown as ID when you apply for the waiver of costs sufficient to vote?

Answer…They are..this is all BS.

Only a Republican would deny the vote to an elderly or minority or poor person even though they are able to provide a Utility Bill, and a SS Card or Birth Certificate AND provide a signature for comparison.

— Reasonable Man
11:07 am April 29th, 2008

They will keep trotting this out til it passes like the concealed carry law. High voter turnout and good weather are Republican nightmares. They can’t control the weather but they’ll keep trying to reduce the number of voters any way possible.

— 1*
11:58 am April 29th, 2008

UN-Reasonable (post #7)

An 80 year old voting from the same address for 30 years? Did this person buy the home? If so, ID? Did they rent? If so, ID? Government housing? If so, why could they live in government housing for 30 years?

How did this person ever cash a check? File a tax return? Have a Social Security number?

Of course this is the same type of straw man we get from the left… typically over abortion… the one out of 100,000 that the law must carry.

And if they can “provide a Utility Bill, and a SS Card or Birth Certificate” you’d think that a FREE ID card would be a no brainer.

Not for a liberal I guess.

— tsquare
2:10 pm April 29th, 2008

T-squat, there shouldn’t be straw or other varieties of men in the abortion debate. It’s a woman’s issue. On the disenfranchisement of the poor, disabled and elderly, the republicans will continue to hammer away at this, like conceal and carry, until they get what they want. The slip opinion from the Supreme Court suggests that the voter ID law will pass muster in large part because it’s so easy to get around by way of absentee voting. Absent a switch in the balance of power in Jefferson City, we will have to redouble our efforts to educate on and encourage absentee voting by the groups this law is designed to marginalize.

— Penelope
7:10 pm April 29th, 2008

Ooooo… the name calling. That hurts.

Well you on the left have had a very bad week and it’s only Tuesday night. First this… by 6-3 the SCOTUS has outlawed voter fraud and then today The Saviour of the left fell off the mountain.

Hard times = bad moods.

Yet for all the screaming, the name calling, the false outrage, no one not one of you have denied that this law… when it finally comes, will end the Democrats chances at statewide office.

This is fact, and it goes unchallenged. Scream your rage, call your silly little names… with this fact I am content

— tsquare
8:00 pm April 29th, 2008

None of us can know, including you, whether this will come to pass, and the Supremes did not outlaw voter fraud, you [insert appropriate name here]. They said there wasn’t anything blatantly violative of the US Constitution. As Robin Carnahan pointed out, this does not foreclose the possibility that it is against the Missouri Constitution, but then again you righties love to open that document up and massage it to suit you every political whim. It ain’t over, but even it it were, I doubt it would keep democrats out of statewide office. Keep dreaming.

— Penelope
8:14 pm April 29th, 2008

What is the great fear with requiring an ID for anything. People who don’t have an id should show some reasonable rationale why they don’t. For seasoned people in St. Louis, there are more than a few examples of people and organizations attempting to manipulate the voting system. If people put as much energy toward helping those socalled underprivelged to get ID’s, maybe we could help prevent ID theft, check stealing and more.

This is the 21st century, maybe event technology can help. Why can’t the election system be modernized just like the banking system so that you can vote anywhere with the appropriate information, ID/bank cards, passwords etc. That way we will know that the people who want to vote are really that person and live where they say they are voting from. In the end, those that want to cheat will find a way.

— stlvoice
9:31 pm April 29th, 2008

Elections are held every year for various purposes. There are 8760 hours in a year. Are you folks really telling me that there are people too stupid to figure out how to obtain an ID card within almost 9000 hours?

In order to transact any bank business these days, one needs a photo ID. Even the dirt poor and the elderly have to have a way to cash those gubberment checks. Hell, I would bet the payday loan and liquor stores that cash checks require an ID, so that argument is out the window.

Please, Please tell me how one survives in this day and age WITHOUT a photo ID.

— Amazedbythelunacy
9:22 am April 30th, 2008

Here’s an idea, Make photo ID mandatory for welfare benefits and then the argument about disenfranchising the poor becomes nonexistent. You can bet your rear that they will find out how to obtain that photo ID.

Darren, you may not buy it but here goes…..

Every Dem that is running statewide hopes to hold up a good front in outstate because they know they will kick some butt in St. Louis and Kansas City. St. Louis and Kansas City have some of the worst schools in the state. Hence, the dems are relying on the uneducated masses to propel them to victory. Why else would dems want folks too dumb to figure out a way to get a FREE ID have free reign when it comes to voting?

The large majority of big cities in our country have the same terrible school system and amazingly enough they have democrats leading those big cities.

— Amazedbythelunacy
9:29 am April 30th, 2008