I don’t understnd the excuse of the poor and elderly not having the resources to get a photo ID…without a birth certificate how do they qualify for goverment assistance, social security, medicare etc.

The only way to verify a legitimate voter is photo ID.

I think it is interesting that Jim Guest voted against when I received the results of a survey from his office this week which shows 74% of those in his district favor requiring voter ID. Since this vote was only whether to allow the issue on the ballot, I guess Mr. Guest thinks he is smarter than the voters in his district and they should not be allowed to cast a vote on the issue. He is definitely not voting the will of this district.

Old Timer, my son had to send me a notorized affidavit because he lost his birth certificate. I had to drive to the county he was born in and purchase copy of it and overnight it to him so he could purchase a home through the VA. If he needed a photo id to vote it would be the same hassel. That amounts to a poll tax.

Nick, I haven’t been carded 25 years. I have never had to show a picture id to cash my check. I’ve been at the same bank for 30 years now.

How many cases of fraudulant voting have been documented in nationwide? How much actual voter fraud has been documented?

There are many instances of voters being turned away and completely knocked off voter rolls through voter caging. Where is you all’s outrage over that?

Why don’t we require that the County Clerk check the identification of all voters without a government issued photo ID within 10 days of the election. If the County Clerk can prove fraud the Clerk shall take the appropriate steps with the legal system to charge the illegal voter if the County Clerk can not prove fraud than the vote shall count. This would make the government responsible for proving that a voter does not have the right to vote. If you are only concerned about fraud this law should suffice, if on the other hand it is your intent to stop people that should be allowed to vote from voting, you will fight this proposed law.

I think it’s less about voter fraud and more about voter supression. The judicial activisim of the Supreme Court never ceases to amaze me.

“…If he needed a photo id to vote it would be the same hassel. That amounts to a poll tax.”

Baloney. You don’t know what a poll tax is. Given the fact Indiana and other states provide the IDs for free makes that claim even stupider.

“I haven’t been carded 25 years. I have never had to show a picture id to cash my check. I’ve been at the same bank for 30 years now.”

Good luck with that if you go to another branch. You obviously don’t shop or use a debit card. Many retailers ask for ID nowadays.

“How many cases of fraudulant voting have been documented in nationwide? How much actual voter fraud has been documented?”

Dozens of cases in almost every state. This paper ran several stories regarding voter fraud and irregularities in the City of St. Louis during the 2000 and 2004 elections. ACORN, one of the most prominent “voter rights” groups, was indicted and fined twice in the last year in Missouri and Washington state for committing voter registration fraud. The Washington state case involved almost 2,000 fraudulent registrations. They’ve been charged with similar shenanigans in at least 12 states.

In 2002 it was found that 1,300 irregular votes might have been cast in a closely contested California Assembly election. An investigation turned up written admissions by 76 people that they were not citizens but were still allowed to vote. Another 49 admitted that they were not registered at their correct address. A total of 69 voters admitted that they had voted twice.

“There are many instances of voters being turned away and completely knocked off voter rolls through voter caging. Where is you all’s outrage over that?”

If those struck from the rolls are like the ones in California, I say hooray.

Again Go_Fish: If the photo ID is required and a registered voter does not have a photo ID, why not make the government responsible to identify the fraudulent voters who don’t have ID’s instead of making the voter prove within 10 days that they do have the right to vote? I thought our Constitution was written to limit government imposed actions instead of requiring lawful citizens to jump through hoops to prove they are innocent or allowed to vote. It would be much easier for a staff in the County Clerk’s office or an election board to gather the documents proving fraud than it would be for an elderly or disabled individual to gather the appropriate documentation from the county and state to prove they are legal. If the whole point of the ID is to stop voter fraud and not stop certain classes of people from voting than this should work and insure that all legitimate votes are counted.

I’m sensing that Go_Fish doesn’t want the poor or elderly to vote after all they are not smart enough to figure out how to get a certified copy of a birth certificate or other documentation to prove they are legal. What makes them smart enough to pick the conservative canidate, right Go_Fish?

“If the photo ID is required and a registered voter does not have a photo ID, why not make the government responsible to identify the fraudulent voters who don’t have ID’s instead of making the voter prove within 10 days that they do have the right to vote?”

Because asking county employees and election volunteers to waste time and taxpayer money on something individuals can easily do for themselves is dumb.

“I thought our Constitution was written to limit government imposed actions instead of requiring lawful citizens to jump through hoops to prove they are innocent or allowed to vote.”

Not if you’re talking about the US Constitution. It specifically grants to the states the responsibility of conducting elections and the authority to determine who may and who may not vote. The only restrictions the US Constitution puts on voting laws is that they not discriminate based on race, national origin, religion, etc. It also says states can’t make people pay to vote. Since a verfiable ID does not meet the definition of a poll tax, that argument goes right out the window.

“It would be much easier for a staff in the County Clerk’s office or an election board to gather the documents proving fraud than it would be for an elderly or disabled individual to gather the appropriate documentation from the county and state to prove they are legal.”

Anyone who’s ever had a property tax dispute or tried to fix an error on a deed can tell you just how speedy that process is. Your assertion that county offices are somehow models of administrative efficiency begs another question: How is that all these poor souls suddenly have no way of identifying themselves? No nursing home will take a patient without some verification of who they are. If they didn’t, they’d never be able to collect a payment or get reimbursement from medicare and medicaid. Likewise, unless a disabled person lives completely off the grid they also must have a way of proving they are who they say they are. If they can’t, they wouldn’t be eligible for federal, state, or local assistance.

“If the whole point of the ID is to stop voter fraud and not stop certain classes of people from voting than this should work and insure that all legitimate votes are counted.”

The point is the former.

“I’m sensing that Go_Fish doesn’t want the poor or elderly to vote after all they are not smart enough to figure out how to get a certified copy of a birth certificate or other documentation to prove they are legal. What makes them smart enough to pick the conservative canidate, right Go_Fish?”

Your sense is as off base as your understanding of state and federal election rules. You do realize that fraudulent voting taints the entire process, not just one end of the spectrum, right?

So, what do I have to provide to get my “free ID?”

A source document that requires me to expend additional time and money to exercise my right to vote, even though I’ve been registered to vote for some 34 years.

The indirect costs for source documents to citizens are not represented in the ID bill, and curiously were not litigated as part of the suit from Indiana. The suit only brought a facial challenge to the constitutionality of the Indiana law. The issue still remains open whether a challenge incorporating these indirect barriers to the exercise of suffrage violate the due process and equal protection gaurantees of the 5th and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. It is likely the GOP troika on the Court would find no problem with that either.

Query whether the litigants also asserted whether the indirect “poll tax” violates the 15 Amendment.

Notwithstanding what the law said, there have been no documented incidents of voter fraud by the proponents of this heinous legislation and the proposed state constitutional amnedment. What we do know is that people who are eligible to vote will not be able to vote. If we look at the harm to be avoided, merely speculative voter fraud, versus the harm of the remedy, actual disenfranchisement of millions of voters in Missouri and the various states, we can see the emtire issue as solely one of suppression.

Please remember,the Republican National Committee is still subject to a national consent order out of a district court in NJ where it was sued for intentional, illegal voter suppression tactics against minorities and the poor. “Voter ID laws” are just the latest in a series of racist, facist GOP tactics to punish minority voters for voting for the Democratic nominees anywhere, and to suppress votes for Democratic candidates.

So when fishies,Nickoff and their GOP ilk want to impose their Stalinistic remedies on us, voters beware!

Those that use the following argument - “opponents of the measure ramped up their protests at a news conference in St. Louis, reiterating their claims that the measure would keep some people – particularly poor, elderly and minority citizens – out of the voting both” —- are driving to get Illegal Alien voting validated. It is a ridiculous argument. You’re either an American citizen (by birth or naturalized) or “you’re ILLEGAL” period.