I dig it. Especially for people who are graphically and verbally oriented, it’s an interesting snapshot.

Palin biggie is “also”? Not surprising I guess since she seemed to be generating random stream of consciousness much of the evening (although I do accept that her poorly integrated paragraphs probably reflected her efforts to get her scripted talking points out there regardless of the questions.

Well, Irene, it looks like Palin barely mentioned Obama in comparison to her running mate. By contrast, Biden talked about McCain more than he did Obama. It sounds like she was more promoting her ticket rather than tearing down the other side.

She spoke eloquently but failed to answer the questions and did an excellent job of avoiding questions by talking a lot but not about the actual question. She didn’t embarrass us here in Alaska. Her knowledge is lacking and that was clear. C Harris

There were definite evasions to answering questions. Palin kept stating
“I don’t want to talk about the past, only what we will do going forward.”
I can understand, Why would she want to discuss her bosses heavy involvement in the failed bush policies when she can accuse Obama of “looking backward, not forward? If by any chance Palin gets to be VP, the idea of her telling heads of state “Soccer mom” parables during tough talks and being very vague with details, is dangerous. I can see it, hopefully not. A Foreign power with issues asks what the US plans to do specifically and she responds with soccer mom stories or jibes random nonsense unrelated to the question. Biden tried to hard not to attack her vagueness and should have pressed her to clarify and broaden her answers. He could have done this without appearing to be a bully prefacing the american people want to know specifics. It would have been quickly clear how empty she is without soundbytes.

Your word cloud doesn’t include the most important thing we heard from Biden:

“We should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to re-adjust not just the interest rate you’re paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe.”

So I buy a house for $100,000 and then discover I overpaid. When I declare bankruptcy, the judge whacks $20,000 off my mortgage. So the bank gets to take the loss on my bad investment, and the mortgage documents mean nothing. Very disturbing. Is this the sort of philosophy that we want in the people running our country?

Nick….it’s not a question of overpaying for your house. If someone pays $100,000 at 8.5% for 30 years, the total cost is $330,000.

If the rates drop to 5.5%, the same loan will cost $257,000.

If you can’t afford to refinance your home due to additional closing costs or unemployment, your sit out of luck….The banks has you by the rails. Mortgages should be adjusted to current rates…That’s what the banks do when they borrow from each other or when they steal from the government.

By the way…I see the Palin cloud with the words “REALLY”, “LIKE”, and “TOTALLY”….where’s the words “AWESOME”, “GONNA”, and “BETCHA?

Garrison, if you know enough to tell me the total cost of a loan, then you can’t plead ignorance on mortgages. So please note:

1. The “total cost” includes principal and interest. When Biden says that a judge should be able to “adjust the principal that you owe” he isn’t talking about the total cost.

2. Not sure how you came up with $330,000, but according to http://www.amortization-calc.com the total cost of $100,000 at 8.5% for 30 years is $277,000. At 5.5%, that drops to $204,000.

3. Mortgage loans are made based upon lender’s predictions of default rates, cost of funds, and servicing costs. Heavy losses in sub-prime loans indicate that they actually were charging too little, not too much. Why do you think that they should be forced to come back, after the fact, and accept less than was agreed upon?

I’ll betcha you think it’ll be awesome when banks are gonna have to just rewrite those mortgages. I’m sure you’d really like it if the government would totally stick it to the banks, and just let people keep their homes. But how is that fair to banks, their investors, and to everyone who pays their mortgage every month and ends up having to subsidize them?

they forgot “git” and gosh darn it and golly gee on Pailins When she sepaks its not only nals on the chalkboard….its an assault on the english language

Jo Mannies thought that the two candidates got through the event with “…no major blunders…”. But don’t you think a six term senator running for the position of Vice President would know that the duties of the Vice President are detailed in Article Two of the Constitution and not Article One (Legislature) as he stated! Isn’t that just a little bitty gaffe, Jo?

She spoke eloquently? You must have had the volume turned down. “dog gone it”, “shout out”, “joe 6-pack”, not exactly eloquent. Folksy, yes. Eloquent, no. She tried to come across as the “everyday American” and used her prepared sound bites (”put govt back on the side of people”, “fight for freedom”,etc.) in an effort to mask her lack of depth and understanding of the issues.

I noticed also how often Palin also threw in words that had no actual right to also be in the sentence just to fill the space between the time she also started speaking and she didn’t also.

The woman has a very hard time keeping a damper on her stream of consciousness blather. Not a thing of real substance came out of her mouth. It would be a huge embarrassment to our country to have her out in the world speaking as poorly as she does.

And someone should let her know that giving a shout out to the kids is for games shows, not Vice Presidential debates. Folksy? Incompetent.

— Joseph D
“But don’t you think a six term senator running for the position of Vice President would know that the duties of the Vice President are detailed in Article Two of the Constitution and not Article One (Legislature) as he stated! Isn’t that just a little bitty gaffe, Jo?’

“. . Little bitty gaffe?” Yes

The real issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution
o She got them wrong
o He got them right

Nick, I included 1.25 property tax and .5 PMI.
If mortgage loans are determined by lenders predictions of default rates, they missed by several miles….And if I’ve reduced the principle from $100,000 to $50,000 in 10 years (assuming the same rate of 8.5%) my monthly payment for the next year should be $506 instead of the original monthly payment of $915….The banks still insist on the $915 unless I pay them extra for refinancing. If you can’t afford to refinance, your option is foreclosure.

— STL Sorry, but you’re wrong again.
“The real issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution
o She got them wrong
o He got them right”

Biden gets the Constitution completely incorrect. In fact, the Constitution states that the Vice President is always the President of the Senate, in Article I, Section 3:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

In fact, the Vice President gets defined in the Constitution in both Article I and Article II, making the office part of both branches of the federal government. Cheney’s argument that this gave him some sort of immunity from producing documents was absurd, but his reading of the Constitution was absolutely correct. The VP belongs to both the executive and the legislative branches of government — and has almost no power in either, but still gets defined in the Constitution as a member of both branches.

Stephen Dinan notes that modern practice has led to historical and Constitutional illiteracy:

The Constitution, though, actually says the vice president is always president of the Senate and legal scholars say he has the right to preside at any time. Early vice presidents, such as Thomas Jefferson, actively exercised that role, the vice president still keeps offices at the Capitol, and scholars say it wasn’t until the middle of the 20th century that the vice president had an office at the executive office building.

The president pro tempore, usually the senior senator from the majority party, takes over only when the vice president is absent. In recent practice, as the vice president has taken a bigger role in the executive, that’s meant the Senate operates almost all of the time without the vice president in the chair.

===

Palin’s use of ALSO has annoyed me from the start — but I suspected it was “just me” It appears it is the word she used more than any other. I guess it’s better than ummmmmmmm, but it carries the same intellectual weight.

The analysts I read said she was understandable — I thought she rambled. I’m guessing reading the transcript would be a medium-sized nightmare. Typing and punctuating transcript would be your basic full-sized horror.

— RoFe the following is long, please persevere
“In fact, the Vice President gets defined in the Constitution in both Article I and Article II, making the office part of both branches of the federal government. Cheney’s argument that this gave him some sort of immunity from producing documents was absurd, but his reading of the Constitution was absolutely correct.”

o That is not the way he read the constitution, because he contended that the VP office was not part of either branch.
“This summer, Cheney chief of staff David Addington told Congress the vice president belongs to neither the executive nor legislative branch of government, but rather is attached by the Constitution to Congress. The vice president presides over the Senate.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080921/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_lawsuit

Article II, Section 1 of our constitution, includes the succession of executive power “. . In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President . . until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected. . .”.

My hunch is that even a strict constructionist would agree that in the practical sense the framers of the constitution expected the Vice President would not just be on retainer, rather would be actively working with the President and be knowledgeable of the activities and policies of the President. As a result, the VP is truly in the executive branch.

Check the transcript link of the VP debate that I’ve provided below. Search for “Article I of” or scroll down about 80%.
o Biden said, “Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch.”
Seems to me to be exactly what the framers expected. Biden’s next 2 paragraphs correctly describe the role of the VP as presiding over the Senate.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

Now I recommend you scroll up just a bit and read Palin’s pitiful response to IFill’s question. The transcript of course only has the words. It does not capture any winking, blinking, flirting, body language or other distractions that may have occurred.

As a result of reading this transcript, in good conscience I must modify my response of 10:28 am October 3rd, 2008 to the following:

The real issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution

o He got them right
o She did not have a clue


Again, I say poor Palin..

I compare Palin’s success with that of an Olympic diver who does a belly-flop and is thrilled she landed in the water.

— STL Sorry, but you are wrong for the second time.

“o That is not the way he read the constitution, because he (Cheney) contended that the VP office was not part of either branch.”

Cheney did NOT assert the office was not a part of either branch — that mangled assertion was put forth by Peter Yost/AP writer. Cheney asserted it was a part of both the Legislative and the Executive branches.

Biden said “Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States” Article I deals with the Legislative Branch, not the Executive Branch, and says:

– The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided. —

No additional role, other than succeeding the President based upon his Death, Resignation, or Inability, is designated. No VP duties are designated in Article II Exective Branch.

“o My hunch is … a strict constructionist would agree … in the … sense the framers … expected the VP … would be actively working with the President and be knowledgeable of the activities and policies of the President. As a result, the VP is truly in the executive branch.”

Your hunch is too expansive… and again, wrong. Presidents & VPs did not necessarily work together in the beginning of the Nation — sometimes they didn’t even talk with each other. In fact they were sometimes political enemies. Conceivably the Electoral College could select McCain as President and Obama as Vice President.

I guess I would just add also that I found her use of the word also to be provocative of thoughts of running screaming from the room also. I was also struck with the winking. Not so much that it was creepy coming from her because I am used to women trading on their sexuality in subtle ways in our culture. Rather, it was not what I expected from a potential vice president who, by most accounts, is aspiring or should be aspiring to the gravitas implied in having been selected for the second most powerful office in the most powerful country on the planet. Also, for a gal that was (or at least whose supporters were) so deeply “offended” by the lipstick on a pig reference - having nothing to do with her except she’s the only one on either ticket that wears the stuff - she should probably not have done the wink knowing full well that Biden absolutely could not have done it without rightfully being called out as creepy…on account of his gender.

“…not what I expected from a potential vice president…” — Penelope

Penny is suffering from a case of Ovary Envy

===

What about “you betcha” and “nucular”?

SMC- Palin didn’t address Obama because she knows nothing about him or the issues. She didn’t actually say anything of substance. She performed better than expected, but that’s not saying much. Can you imagine her meeting with other world leaders and WINKING at them? What a joke!

BobZ.- She has a perfectly legitimate point. Sarah Palin has absolutely nothing of which any free thinking woman, which I assume Peneploe is, would be envious. Especially her reproductive organs. You’re an idiot for making that remark.

— RoFe
“Cheney did NOT assert the office was not a part of either branch — that mangled assertion was put forth by Peter Yost/AP writer. Cheney asserted it was a part of both the Legislative and the Executive branches.”

“. . mangled assertion . .”?
This is an opinion.
If you have something credible provide us a link

I searched again and still didn’t find anything to refute the article
“This summer, Cheney chief of staff David Addington told Congress the vice president belongs to neither the executive nor legislative branch of government, but rather is attached by the Constitution to Congress. The vice president presides over the Senate.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080921/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_lawsuit

The article is even supported by one from FOX - “We Report. You Decide.”
“The lawsuit stems from Cheney’s position that his office is not part of the executive branch of government.”
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Sep21/0,4670,CheneyLawsuit,00.html

“Conceivably the Electoral College could select McCain as President and Obama as Vice President.”
and what odds would it take before you’d bet on that event?

And Now, Let’s Play Jeopardy

Sarah Palin provided this answer during the VP Debate

“Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president’s agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we’ll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.”

Please Provide Your Response Making Sure It Is In The Form Of A Question

What Was John McCain Thinking?
o How does anyone know what Sarah is saying?
o Her answer above is a big blob of babbling gibberish just like most of her answers

John McCain’s judgement must be seriously flawed.
He thinks she has the credentials to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.
On day#1

Play more Jeopardy at this link
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

“The article is even supported by one from FOX” — STL
Are you a Dolt? It’s the same Peter Yost/AP article.

“If you have something credible provide us a link” — STL
You sound like a dismissive little ovary-envying snot.
And using the Royal “us” — puh-lease.

With which of Joe’s errors are you comfortable?

The Biden Error/Lie/Hallucination List (UPDATED to 22) ~Jim Geraghty

THE CONSTITUTION: Biden: “Vice President Cheney’s been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history. He has — he has — the idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the executive — he works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”

As noted by the McCain Camp, Article I of the Constitution does not, in fact, define the role of the Vice President of the United States. It defines the role of the legislative branch, otherwise known as the branch in which Joe Biden has served for the last 36 years.

[A reader writes in noting that Article I does mention the veep at one point — "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided." However, by describing the veep's role in the legislature, it doesn't really help Biden's claim that it "defines the role, that's the executive, he works in the executive branch."]

IRAQ-AFGHANISTAN SPENDING: Biden said that the U.S. spends more in Iraq in one month than it has in Afghanistan in six or seven years.

That figure is off by 2000 percent.

‘KICKED HEZBOLLAH OUT OF LEBANON’: Biden: When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said, and Barack said, ‘Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it.”

Reuters thinks he meant to refer to Syria, but I still don’t think it would be accurate to say the U.S. kicked Syria out of Lebanon. The Lebanese kicked Syria out of Lebanon.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT: Biden’s statement that McCain voted against the Violence Against Women Act is accurate. But as Robert Byers notes, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Morrison, the Court ruled that much of Biden’s law was an unconstitutional power grab by Congress of rights reserved to the states. Nobody voted against the WAWA because they support violence against women; they objected over constiutional concerns that a Supreme Court majority validated.

The McCain camp’s list fourteen lies/hallucinations can be found here.

UPDATE: As I suspected, there are others.

RESTAURANT: “Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie’s Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years.”

According to this Delaware site, Katie’s Restaurant is no longer in business; locals remember it on Union Street 25 to 30 years ago.

ARMS CONTROL TREATY: Biden: “Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported.”

I have no idea where Biden gets this “every Republican has supported” claim, as 49 other Republican senators voted ‘no’ with McCain.

When the roll was finally called on October 13, the resolution to ratify the CTBT (including the six safeguards that Daschle had submitted as an amendment) was defeated by a 51-48 vote with one abstention. (See the voting record.) Forty-four Democrats voted for ratification as did four Republicans: John Chafee (R-RI), James Jeffords (R-VT), Gordon Smith (R-OR) and Arlen Specter (R-PA). Fifty Republican senators and one independent (Robert Smith of New Hampshire) voted against ratification, and Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) voted “present.” The treaty fell 19 votes short of achieving the necessary two-thirds majority necessary for ratification.

WEST BANK ELECTIONS: Biden: President Bush insisted on elections in the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, ‘Big mistake. Hamas will win. You’ll legitimize them.’”

The Washington Post’s Glenn Kessler notes that “Obama had been a senator for only a few days when the election took place, but if he made such statements, they did not appear in news reports or transcripts that are contained in the Nexis or Factiva databases.”

PAKISTANI WEAPONS: “Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons. Pakistan’s weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean.”

I won’t quite chalk this up as a lie/hallucination, but Biden is on shaky ground here. (See below.) The distance between Israel and Pakistan is 2,085 miles, or 3355 kilometers. The longest-range existing strategic missile in the Pakistani arsenal has a range of 3000 kilometers, but it might have longer range with a lighter payload. (But how much can you lighten a nuclear payload?) They are working on developing longer-range missiles; maybe Biden knows of some development that public sources do not yet know about. Theoretically, the Pakistanis could put the weapon on a boat and then sail it to the target, but by that standard, any site on a coast in the world is within their range.

ANOTHER UPDATE: This site indicates that the top range of Pakistani missile that can carry a nuclear warhead is 1000 miles. By being off by 1,000 or so, I’m now upgrading this to full lie/error/hallucination status.

— RoFe
“childish personal attack
. . . . . Dolt. - - Hmm, is that you Go_Fish? or AJ?
.
didn’t respond to ” . . mangled assertion. . “?
.
google - no link
cut & paste
google - no link
cut & paste
google - no link
cut & paste
.
.
. . . ”
Here’s some help with that link thing that you don’t seem to get
Sample link: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/presidential-candidates/2008/10/check-out-sarah-palin-and-joe-bidens-vp-debate-speech-words/all-comments/#comments
btw - The National Review is not credible cause it’s very biased
;
Ok, let us rein this in by providing a summary to date.
The original issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution

o He got them right

o She did not have a clue
;
;
Your computer skills are amazing
But your credibility is short
Please post for all of us
Your next retort

To Stephanie and Penelope,
I would urge you to completely refuse to engage BobZ in anymore discussion. He has proven himself time and time again to be less than competent and so completely moronic that he doesn’t deserve the effort you put into your replies. He’s a sort of straw man who has no substance and is only trying to deceive us all. His head is on backwards. Let him wallow in his own confusion. We can rest assured that his one vote will be more than compensated for by at least three for Obama.

“childish personal attack” — STL

Dolt or no dolt ? … but apparently one of narrow shoulders and shallow chest

“. . Little bitty gaffe? Yes” — STL

Still deciding which of Joe Biden’s many gaffes you’re comfortable defending?
Or…
Maybe you’re searching for more of Peter Yost’s links?

“…help with that link thing that you don’t seem to get”

Link not needed. With paste and author shown , the Royal “us” can see for themselves where STL goes wobbly.

“The original issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution
o He got them right
o She did not have a clue” — STL

I will say you’ve got tedium covered. Back to the first lesson: The Constitution says the vice president is always president of the Senate (Legislative)
…and both Biden & STL retain a firm grip on Wrong.

— RoFe
“Link not needed. With paste and author shown , the Royal “us” can see for themselves where STL goes wobbly.”

No source
No links
No credibility

http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-10/palin-wink.jpg

— RoFe 10:55 pm October 5th, 2008
Link
Click
Result - “Access Denied”

o Yeah, so I guess you just don’t get that link thingy there do ya?
o Fortunately for you, I can tap in to my position and also works with children and people and that will be put to good use here cause it’s given me lot’s of patience
.
Sample Link #2: http://tinyurl.com/4u6368

First clue: keyboard
|
|
|
.
Second clue: F1, F2, F3, F4, … F6, F7, F8, F9, F10, F11, F12
|
|
|
.
Third clue: press
|
|
|
.
A screen refreshed & Voila!
|
|
|
.
Four corrections for STL …
he’s reached his limit …
will somebody else step forward
to assist & help him get it?
|
|
|
.
Bonus linkie: pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/tech-tips-for-the-basic-computer-user/?em

— RoFe

Please don’t hand me off to another as I appreciate your effort and patience to help get something useful after my click on the link in your post of 10:55 pm October 5th, 2008.

I tried pressing each of those F keys while the arrow’s on the link
o Guess what?
o Didn’t get the screen refresh you mentioned.

Hmm, must be something about me or my machine because I click on the link in your post of 11:25 am October 6th, 2008 and it doesn’t work either.
o Maybe a clue - I noticed that link was not underlined.
o Maybe that’s it, huh?

Don’t know if it’s this computer or what, so requesting a favor
o Please scroll back up to the link at 10:55 pm October 5th, 2008 that I’m having trouble with and click on it yourself to see if it really works

Then report back

— RoFe
.

o He got them right

o She did not have a clue