She spoke eloquently? You must have had the volume turned down. “dog gone it”, “shout out”, “joe 6-pack”, not exactly eloquent. Folksy, yes. Eloquent, no. She tried to come across as the “everyday American” and used her prepared sound bites (”put govt back on the side of people”, “fight for freedom”,etc.) in an effort to mask her lack of depth and understanding of the issues.

I noticed also how often Palin also threw in words that had no actual right to also be in the sentence just to fill the space between the time she also started speaking and she didn’t also.

The woman has a very hard time keeping a damper on her stream of consciousness blather. Not a thing of real substance came out of her mouth. It would be a huge embarrassment to our country to have her out in the world speaking as poorly as she does.

And someone should let her know that giving a shout out to the kids is for games shows, not Vice Presidential debates. Folksy? Incompetent.

— Joseph D
“But don’t you think a six term senator running for the position of Vice President would know that the duties of the Vice President are detailed in Article Two of the Constitution and not Article One (Legislature) as he stated! Isn’t that just a little bitty gaffe, Jo?’

“. . Little bitty gaffe?” Yes

The real issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution
o She got them wrong
o He got them right

Nick, I included 1.25 property tax and .5 PMI.
If mortgage loans are determined by lenders predictions of default rates, they missed by several miles….And if I’ve reduced the principle from $100,000 to $50,000 in 10 years (assuming the same rate of 8.5%) my monthly payment for the next year should be $506 instead of the original monthly payment of $915….The banks still insist on the $915 unless I pay them extra for refinancing. If you can’t afford to refinance, your option is foreclosure.

— STL Sorry, but you’re wrong again.
“The real issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution
o She got them wrong
o He got them right”

Biden gets the Constitution completely incorrect. In fact, the Constitution states that the Vice President is always the President of the Senate, in Article I, Section 3:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

In fact, the Vice President gets defined in the Constitution in both Article I and Article II, making the office part of both branches of the federal government. Cheney’s argument that this gave him some sort of immunity from producing documents was absurd, but his reading of the Constitution was absolutely correct. The VP belongs to both the executive and the legislative branches of government — and has almost no power in either, but still gets defined in the Constitution as a member of both branches.

Stephen Dinan notes that modern practice has led to historical and Constitutional illiteracy:

The Constitution, though, actually says the vice president is always president of the Senate and legal scholars say he has the right to preside at any time. Early vice presidents, such as Thomas Jefferson, actively exercised that role, the vice president still keeps offices at the Capitol, and scholars say it wasn’t until the middle of the 20th century that the vice president had an office at the executive office building.

The president pro tempore, usually the senior senator from the majority party, takes over only when the vice president is absent. In recent practice, as the vice president has taken a bigger role in the executive, that’s meant the Senate operates almost all of the time without the vice president in the chair.

===

Palin’s use of ALSO has annoyed me from the start — but I suspected it was “just me” It appears it is the word she used more than any other. I guess it’s better than ummmmmmmm, but it carries the same intellectual weight.

The analysts I read said she was understandable — I thought she rambled. I’m guessing reading the transcript would be a medium-sized nightmare. Typing and punctuating transcript would be your basic full-sized horror.

— RoFe the following is long, please persevere
“In fact, the Vice President gets defined in the Constitution in both Article I and Article II, making the office part of both branches of the federal government. Cheney’s argument that this gave him some sort of immunity from producing documents was absurd, but his reading of the Constitution was absolutely correct.”

o That is not the way he read the constitution, because he contended that the VP office was not part of either branch.
“This summer, Cheney chief of staff David Addington told Congress the vice president belongs to neither the executive nor legislative branch of government, but rather is attached by the Constitution to Congress. The vice president presides over the Senate.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080921/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_lawsuit

Article II, Section 1 of our constitution, includes the succession of executive power “. . In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President . . until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected. . .”.

My hunch is that even a strict constructionist would agree that in the practical sense the framers of the constitution expected the Vice President would not just be on retainer, rather would be actively working with the President and be knowledgeable of the activities and policies of the President. As a result, the VP is truly in the executive branch.

Check the transcript link of the VP debate that I’ve provided below. Search for “Article I of” or scroll down about 80%.
o Biden said, “Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch.”
Seems to me to be exactly what the framers expected. Biden’s next 2 paragraphs correctly describe the role of the VP as presiding over the Senate.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

Now I recommend you scroll up just a bit and read Palin’s pitiful response to IFill’s question. The transcript of course only has the words. It does not capture any winking, blinking, flirting, body language or other distractions that may have occurred.

As a result of reading this transcript, in good conscience I must modify my response of 10:28 am October 3rd, 2008 to the following:

The real issue was about the duties of the VP in our constitution

o He got them right
o She did not have a clue


Again, I say poor Palin..

I compare Palin’s success with that of an Olympic diver who does a belly-flop and is thrilled she landed in the water.

— STL Sorry, but you are wrong for the second time.

“o That is not the way he read the constitution, because he (Cheney) contended that the VP office was not part of either branch.”

Cheney did NOT assert the office was not a part of either branch — that mangled assertion was put forth by Peter Yost/AP writer. Cheney asserted it was a part of both the Legislative and the Executive branches.

Biden said “Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States” Article I deals with the Legislative Branch, not the Executive Branch, and says:

– The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided. —

No additional role, other than succeeding the President based upon his Death, Resignation, or Inability, is designated. No VP duties are designated in Article II Exective Branch.

“o My hunch is … a strict constructionist would agree … in the … sense the framers … expected the VP … would be actively working with the President and be knowledgeable of the activities and policies of the President. As a result, the VP is truly in the executive branch.”

Your hunch is too expansive… and again, wrong. Presidents & VPs did not necessarily work together in the beginning of the Nation — sometimes they didn’t even talk with each other. In fact they were sometimes political enemies. Conceivably the Electoral College could select McCain as President and Obama as Vice President.