In the end the result is still the same, Ameren did not get their desired repeal, the public is calculating they have won but actually not, the state has lost a jobs potential and energy independence for the future, so we all lost.

As time goes by the costs for these facilities also goes up, so for every year extended before these facilities are built or contracts let there will be extra costs to bear once they come on line, WE will bear those costs in the long run.

For every wrong turn on the “Green” directives is money and time lost, if they work and generate enough power good, if they don’t we again pay, and pay and pay.

DDM, I don’t know which website you’re looking at, but I’ve been using Ameren’s for several years now, and I cannot recall ever seeing any offers and/or incentives for electrical efficiency. If they were there, what were they? I would be very interested.

Also, your negative mini-rant about microgeneration leaves out many important ideas and technologies, such as solar PV, combined heat and power and the effect of greatly increased energy efficiency of home devices. The idea that a homeowner can only “unplug” from the grid only by installing a forest of towering wind turbines is ridiculous. The inherent inefficiencies of centralized power generation (as well as the backwards ideas of companies like Ameren UE) are driving the market for home microgeneration.

That having been said, if Ameren is truly concerned with changing the public’s opinion on this issue, why not be more forthcoming with the data? Prove to me that this plant is needed and will be built. Guarantee me that power generated in Missouri will be sold in Missouri. Show me the data representing current electricity demand and projected future demand, and then prove that a new plant is the only answer. I suspect that none of these can or will be done, so I will be forced to remain opposed to this plant.

Socius, you read too much into my retort on the potential presented for small wind generators, I am fully aware one can add PV cells and heat their water on solar as well as using solar heat for the home, but we do live in Missouri where it rains spring and fall with poor solar conditions and the costs on the wind equipment just does not justify as in the summer the winds die off for most of the time the power is needed most.

I too would like to get away from the big generation plants, they are prohibitive in maintenance costs but by centralising the generation point these companies have developed the grid for a form of dependability and smoothed the variances in power voltages, spikes and minimized the destroyed appliances from that of the late 40’s/50’s.

I do not know why they do not inform or attempt to educate the public as to longevity of existing systems or why they cannot without mountains of calculations and mind fogging factoids as to generation needs tell why this plant is needed in simpler terms.

As to the power remaining here, the PSC has reports as to the generated energy in the state and from which supplier as well as to load demands for given regional areas of the state. I do not know if these are public domain records or not. Ameren I can say is close to maxxed every summer with any deviation causing them to buy from off grid sources with all the plants in full power operations.

As to incentives, there were power price locks for the Illinois customers; they had appliance buyback and credit programs to update to energy star units, these were ads I have seen in places as Lowes and Home Depot, a few odd programs but they were not utilised well and the costs exceeded the virtues but they did support them for a few years.

As I have stated, for the time being we have still lost and that still holds as fact.

Socius, DDM has no examples of Ameren’s efficiency programs for Missouri electric customers because there are none. Zero. If most experts agree that Ameren can reduce customer electricity use by 25% (conservatively) to 50% (liberally) by using smart programs that incrementally improve efficiency as old “electric hogs” are retired and replaced by ones that are 30, 40, 50, in some cases 80% more efficient….then why wouldn’t they?

The answer is that Ameren is stuck in the mid 20th century. In the 1940s, power companies literally paid appliance manufacturers to host shows in which the companies, any of them, could demonstrate their wares to housewives. As long as it could be plugged in to the walls, utility giants wanted them to sell so they could create an ever-increasing supply of power. This mindset is what Ameren is stuck in 60 years later. They simply don’t understand that energy usage by an average individual does not have to be an ever-increasing curve.

There have been no new major electrically-driven quality of life appliances in decades. Almost everyone already has A/C. Everyone’s got a furnace, water heater, TVs, dishwasher, washer/dryer…and so on. The trend now is that every single one of those is becoming more and more efficient. Air conditioners today are several TIMES as efficient as those made just twenty years ago (SEER 4 back then vs up to SEER 20 now for A/Cs and getting better). TVs *can* be way more efficient if manufactured properly. Same with all the others. In other words, we are in a mode where we could maintain quality of live — completely disregarding “conservation” if you wish — and still decreasing energy usage! But Ameren is stuck in the decades-old mode whereby the only prediction they can make about the future is that people will continue plugging in new vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, and televisions that never existed before. It’s sad.

getreal, as I said earlier, your understanding of alternative energy is elementary at best. Yes, a single wind turbine will only produce constant power during a continuous breeze. But a properly sited wind facility will produce constant power with variations that are indistinguishable from minute-to-minute variations in demand. And “thousands upon thousands” of turbines would be scattered on land that would have dual uses, for example farmland. The space required would be smaller than the smallest nuclear exclusion zone around a nuclear facility. There is no quality of life or stability of power lost from wind facilities until they begin producing around 30% of our power needs.

Karen,
Think of the context of your last comment, “Thousands upon thousands” of wind turbines, these to replace the ageing coal facilities? Where will the finances come to build, buy and install all these turbines if the CWIP is still in place? The same limitations for cost recovery for the nuke apply to the wind turbines by law. The land must also be leased from those that own it, what if they say “No”? How much of that cost will you accept on your monthly bill as to rate increases to pay for these? Will you accept 3% rate increases per year to do this? What if it is 4,5 or 6% for a wind farm of justifiable size to replace the ageing plants?

Ameren had sponsored energy fairs in St.Louis in the last few years applauding newer “Energy Star” appliances, they have put some effort forth but as I visited one of these last year there was few average citizens showing up, it is as if they do not want the efficiency just cheaper electric from Ameren. Evidently you have not entertained the noton to visit one of these.

As to conservation, that is not the duty of any of the power companies, that is solely the responsibility of the individual, if they choose to be ‘energy hogs’ they must pay the cost of the energy used; if they choose to turn off lamps, use CFLs or LEDs and wash dishes by hand or install reduction devices for supplement off the grid then they are a more responsible individual. Personally I prefer laundry from a line dry rather than a dryer, I do not mind washing dishes by hand nor do I mind a tepid shower, my home is at 68 in winter on heat and I keep it above 78 in summer when on A/C, with windows open & AC off on those good days to air the house. I have added insulation, I work at decreasing my energy consumption and when the time comes I will unplug the one eyed beast we currently waste energy on for this blog. As to appliance efficiency, speak to the manufacturers & suppliers not the energy deliverer.

I do not know where your nuke facts come from but the Callaway facility sits on just 6000 acres of land with greater than 5000 of that open to public use as the Reform Wildlife Area; I do not think “thousands and thousands” of wind turbines could fit in the “exclusion” zone and be functional. GE and SIEMENS have excellent wind power sites on the web, very informative and give layout dimensions for these facilities.

Perhaps we should all go ‘Off Grid’ and have batteries in a shed in the yard or in the basement, have an inverter humming away converting wind and PV energy for our consumption, that would stimulate the economy as well as the lead mines in central Missouri for all the equipment. The energy from larger turbines can be made in AC so these would not be a problem as to storage as it could be used right away and the batteries could cover for a few hours when the sun sets from the PV cells. That would teach Ameren we are responsible and thoughtful and do not need them.

Just a side note,

The units of Ameren’s Union Electric Generation other than Rush Island and Callaway were built on the very context of the bill that is dieing, only Callaway and Rush Island were affected by CWIP as they were under construction when it was adopted.

The rate we pay is so low by the fact Ameren UE has recovered the expenses through the rate base for the other units, Callaway and Rush Island will pay off later as their respective costs were increased due to high finance charges during the early 80’s, primarily due to CWIP, and the rate base would have been drastically higher had they gone the 20 year cycle. The consumer has always paid the cost of electricity plants through the rate base it had just been invisible until the CWIP legislation, they are still paid for in other states by this method.

Electricity is a service much as water or sewer or even the grocer down the street, it is not a right to have but a essential for us to have so the PSC was developed to keep costs to a reasonable normal for life and to enjoy use of this resource. If you do not wish to pay for the power or water or food to eat you do without that is a fixed determination, for the facilities to render the services we must pay additional costs beyond that of the actual product used/purchased.

The talk of Callaway II is not to replace old coal facilities and therefore I chose not to address it. Rather, I addressed the ridiculous assertion that energy growth will continue unabated as it did in the ’40s and ’50s, even though Missouri energy use was DOWN last year. Supposed energy demand growth is the driving force behind the push for Callaway II. Even Ameren doesn’t make an issue about retiring large coal facilities, so you may wish to address that point elsewhere.

Ameren’s “applause” of EnergyStar is about as hypocritical as one can get. Of course I didn’t attend; why on earth would I? I understand why energy efficiency is the “NEW” energy of the 21st century. Ameren’s weak support of such a showcase is laughable when they would rather have taxpayers subsidize a new nuclear plant to produce MORE power than to use a smaller amount of money to economically encourage energy efficiency and prevent the need to build an incomprehensively expensive power plant at great operating loss to taxpayers.

You simply don’t understand efficiency programs if you paint them as “welfare” or some sort of giveaway for unconcerned citizens. Read this closely: almost every utility in the country offers such programs *because they lower the cost of providing electricity and are good for both the company and the ratepayers*. Do you really think KCPL, Empire, Duke, Columbia, Con Ed, Springfield, SoCal, or any other utility offers these from the depths of kindness in their hearts? NO. They understand the new paradigm that efficiency can produce as much “new” energy as new power plants without the cost, environmental burden, and taxpayer subsidy of such. Ameren doesn’t “get it” yet and has done careful calculations, knowing that a taxpayer-subsidized nuclear plant will operate at a better bottom-line cost to them, with absolutely no benefit to ratepayers.

Your mischaracterization of space used for wind turbines is ongoing; very little land is actually used for turbines, and most of it continues to be productive farmland, warehouse land, or other dual-use property, as useful or more than the nuclear fallout exclusion zone around such sites as Callaway. Your increasingly bizarre statements about personal wind turbines, lead, and batteries does not warrant a response because they discuss a strawman argument that nobody made.

The anti-CWIP legislation failed because lawmakers and taxpayers finally realize that Ameren is an old-school company that has very little understanding of power management in this century. They do nothing but very shallow lip service toward efficiency and are one of only a limited few power companies in the U.S. that are struggling backwards against a rising tide of intelligence about efficiency, smart grid technology, and renewable power.

Sorry Karen but you do not work in nor have much of an understanding of how the power system does function nor of how the final bill is configured. In the next few years the win you now claim will fall as the rates climb and legally as the old coal stations are retired without replacement units.

Ameren announced today the unit 2 is dead, they will not seek to build it further, they also are not building anything else as in wind, coal, gas or hydro so the writing is on the wall; they will purchase power from other generators and resell it to you and your neighbors for a 6-10% profit regardless the exacting price and this is approved by regulation at the PSC. There is also the off chance now that they will be more dependent on out-sourced energy they will also be obtainable by buyout of stock or hostile takeover; California rates will pale in comparison so the home station wind turbine may justify at that time.

President Obama promised to kill any new coal stations so I suspect they will no longer occur and wind is not viable enough in the Ameren territory for Ameren to place a great deal of time and moneys on so hang on for the ride it should be a whopper.

Enjoy the win for the time it is one for it is already fleeting away.