Smoltz for the 8th! The #4 starter pitches one (maybe two) game(s) in the second round of the playoffs. Smoltz could have a bigger effect on the playoffs from the bullpen. Don’t underestimate the experience factor. Smoltz has “been there and done that”. Guys that are rock-solid under pressure are what gets it done in October!

Keep in mind that in the first round, you’d have BOTH guys in the ‘pen.

I would not discount Smoltz for the ninth either. If Franklin continues to struggle, he has to be on a shorter leash where each game is one step closer to either the WC or the other way: elimination.

Lohse…let’s have Smoltz out of the ‘pen.

There, it’s settled……..Lohse as #4, who we will not get to if the top 3 hold up………and Smoltz as Series MVP for work out of bullpen…..THE Series………Cards in five

If you look at the NLDS playoff schedule, a fourth starter will be necessary unless you want someone pitching on short rest. (Assuming no rain-outs and barring a sweep)

In my opinion, Smoltz should be the 4th starter hands down. His performance as a starter for the cards has been excellent. 6 starts, only 12 earned runs allowed, 33-4 strikeout to walk ratio, and a proven record of being one of the top clutch performers in the playoffs in the history of the game. Loshe has had one decent start in his attempt to regain his form. I don’t care how much money Loshe is making, and I doubt TLR does either. He will go with whoever he thinks gives him the best chance to win. My money is on Smoltz.

I personally think the top notch experience of J. Smoltz is something that should be considered. He is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, and I think the playoff & hopefully the world series atmosphere will kick him into high gear. Sure, the thought of him being a reliever sounds great, but . . . .

Note to Tony:
Please don’t overthink things when it comes to the pitching staff!!!
That has always been my only criticsm about you.

Smoltz: Always good in the first three innings.
Analysis: Excellent CLOSER
Lohse: Younger and regaining his old winning ways, will improved as time goes by.
Could be a good closer too.

Boggs: Excessive power, Fastball pitcher,most of the time out of the strike zone or in the middle of the plate.
Let him watch Daryl Kyle’s video with Motte.

I wonder if Smoltz still has “shutdown” stuff in the role of reliever. We are several years and a shoulder surgery down the road from his last stint in the back end of the bullpen, so it seems dangerous to make assumptions based on his prior experience. That said, his postseason experience and years of accumulated pitching wisdom would likely stand him in good stead. Also, Lohse has been susceptible to the long ball this year–even before his injuries–which would not be ideal for a reliever in the postseason. Tough decision…glad I don’t have to make it.

When it comes to the playoffs, you can cancel money out of the equation(see scott rolen circa 2006playoffs), you play the best players and you can be certain TLR will play his best players. Right now, Smoltz is pitching better and should be the #4 starter. Granted…if Lohse pitches well in his final 2 games that might make it a more difficult decision.

With Smoltz pitching well, I could never take Lohse over him. Only an idiot or someone who doesn’t watch baseball. would. No dis to Lohse, but John Smoltz is John Smoltz and he always will be. And we’re talking about the playoffs. Imagine they’re on opposite teams starting against each other. Where do you put your money?

So I have to look at it like this: who is more valuable to the bullpen? A fourth starter in the postseason, baseball gods willing, shouldn’t be a big concern. Carp and Waino are enough for me to feel okay about our rotation with whoever we settle on for the back end. Shutdown outs from the pen, however, is at the top of anybody’s wish list for any series. So who do you add to your group of relievers? Smoltz or Lohse?

Like I said, having watched the guy play baseball pretty much my whole life (25 years), I can only give my vote of confidence to John Smoltz. I like Kyle Lohse (even if we did overpay him). But I’d bet on Smoltz.

To me Smoltz has shown/earned that No. 4 post-season starter spot; unfortunately, he’s needed in the bullpen for late inning relief. Much needed, imo. We all have to keep our fingers crossed Lohse pitches to the capabilities of his paycheck against a playoff team while also getting some mega run support to boot. It will likely take more than 5 or 6 runs for him to get the win. Or so I thinks.

If Lohse can pitch like he did the other night it will be a big thing.

If DeRosa can hit like he did that same night it would be a much bigger thing.

you guys sound like Lohse was Sandy Koufax on Monday. He pitched 6 innings and gave up 3 runs including 2 HR’s. In the playoffs that equates to a loss. Either way the 4th starter presents problems as neither pitcher can go more than 6. This exposes their major weakness the bullpen. I would see how Franklin pitches down the stretch and then make a decision. TLR is famous for pulling pitchers for no reason (just ask Carp)and a w/o a closer Cards are gonners. You may have to hope Smoltz can still close

Smoltz for the bullpen. Not a knock against him but a knock against our current bullpen. In a one run game that would decide if we advance or go home, I don’t have much faith in Franklin.

Move Franklin back to the setup role and put Smoltz as the closer. No brainer. Franklin has been very fortunate this year. He’s not a strikeout pitcher but has good command. Smoltz can strike people out. Franklin’s 3 inches from playoff doom. Smoltz can get away with a mistake.

It’s the fourth game of the World Series. The Cards are up 2-1 on the Yanks. Do you really want to take a chance on sending Kyle Lohse to the mound and watching him give up six runs in the first two innings and the Cards give away the lead in the series?

Against New York and Philly the Cards will need a chance to win every game. And that means a rotation of Carpenter, Wainwright, Pineiro, and SMOLTZ.

Please remember that we’re quite a few years removed from Smoltz’s days as a dominant closer. Whether we want it or not, Tony’s unlikely to take that avenue. I’d rather see him used as a setup man, as despite poor run support, he seems pretty hitable in an extended role. But many here seem to know better. Let’s remember that despite his Hall of Fame credentials he is in his early 40’s. I’m happy to have him as setup man, and I think that makes the best use of his present ability.
That said, I also believe we did spend about $30 million too much on Lohse who has proven to be an average major league pitcher during his career.

Franklin has allowed a run in each of the last several games. He is not the same. That is a wild card in the decision. At this point, Smoltz has to be considered for the bullpen to be a closer. Franklin is running out of time and excuses, and doesn’t seem to be getting better.

Smoltz is obviously a better starter, but I say let him affect every game from the pen. That is as long as lohse can stop looking like the liability he’s been most of the season.

But no matter what, Lohse should not get the job just b/c of how much he’s making on a big contract. I don’t care what he’s suposed to be or role he’s supposed to play, if he’s not, he’s not

Plus, let’s say franklin falters, with smoltz at the 4 spot, where does that leave us. Move smoltz there (and lohse to 4)? Sure smoltz has shown to be a great closer, but I think the transition would be better if he was coming from a relief role than directly from a starter role in the playoffs, since every game counts and there’s no time to adjust

I don’t know how one can call Smoltz job as excellent. I call it pedestrian, at best. Oh, yeah. By today’s standards a pitcher only has to pitch 5 halfway decent innings in order for his job to be classified as “quality.” Given those standards, my opinion says Lohse as starter and Smoltz in bullpen.

Former beer league 2nd team all-star right fielder Gerry Fraley says, “[closing] is more draining physically than it is mentally.” Thanks for breaking it down in black and white for me beer leaguer. I will now share that with the world as a universal truth.

I don’t know about pedestrian. Sure, he’s had a 3.18 ERA which isn’t great (but it is still pretty good), but his WHIP since coming to the cardinals has been 1.00. That’s 1 flat (to loshe’s HIGH 1.36). He just seems to end up getting a couple runs that he probably shouldn’t.

I haven’t checked the stats. Maybe he’s giving up more fly balls than ground balls, maybe those W+H come in bunches, maybe it’s just bad luck. But I’ll tell you this, if there’s no bullpen as part of the equation, I’d say smoltz takes the 4 spot hands down. I’d say a 1.00 WHIP on top of his experiece makes that an easy choice. And I’d also say that’s pretty d@&n good. Better than pedestrian for sure

Easy way out is to put Smoltz in the bullpen. Lohse does not have a history in the bullpen like Smoltz. Can’t wait to see what Smoltz has left. He makes me think of Grover Alexander coming out of the Cardinal bullpen in the World Series.

Your exactly right Brad. Too much attention has been paid to the second round, but there will be a need for a 4th starter as early as the first round barring someone going on short rest (which I personally hate). I think Smoltz is more valuable as the starter and the reliever so it comes down to TLR deciding what’s more important.

Quite a diverse range of opinions on this topic. I only hope Lohse pitches well enough Sunday (and again next Saturday) to make TLR’s decision a difficult one. What nice problems we have!

If Carpenter pitches into the fourth inning tonight, the starters will have already surpassed last year’s innings pitched. And that with Lohse and Wellemeyer barely more than half as many innings as last year. The resulting reduction in bullpen load has and will continue to pay dividends.

If either the NLCS or WS goes 7, the starter will need to be Pineiro, Smoltz or Lohse. Who would you choose?

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