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10.05.2009 12:14 pm

Cards-Dodgers … who has the edge?

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THE WATERCOOLER

QUESTION: The Cards went 5-2 against the Dodgers in two series played back in July and August. That was then. This is now. How do you think the Cardinals match up with the Dodgers?

DERRICK GOOLD
St. Louis’ regular-season success masks the fact that the Cardinals didn’t really hit well against the Los Angeles Dodgers. In seven games this past season, the Cardinals, as a lineup, hit .218 with a .306 on-base percentage and a .343 slugging percentage. The Dodgers were able to contain the middle of the Cardinals’ order, pitching around Pujols (who hit .222 vs. LA, but had a .400 on-base percentage) and handcuffing Ryan Ludwick (.192/.276/.192). Matt Holliday offers somewhat of a deterrent there for the Dodgers, but he too had his troubles with LA pitching (4-for-22 at Dodger Stadium). All of that reveals how the Cardinals went 5-2 against the Dodgers this season: pitching. And that hasn’t changed from the regular season to October. Of all of the numbers that can be tossed out there to illustrate the Division Series ahead, it’s really two names that define the Cardinals’ edge in this series: Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright.

RICK HUMMEL
The edge the Cardinals have over the Dodgers is that they have two premier, top-of-the-line starters in Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright and the Dodgers have only one — and Clayton Kershaw still is in training. But Kershaw could be deadly pitching in Thursday afternoon’s twilight. The 5-2 mark is very misleading because many of the games were very close but in a five-game series, the team having two outstanding starting pitchers who potentially could make four starts is the better team.

JEFF GORDON
Randy Wolf will be a major pain for the Cardinals, given his ability to exploit their various offensive weaknesses. And LA has hammers at the back of its bullpen. But the Cards have a huge advantage with top-end pitching and with the Pujols/Holliday combo. The Dodgers are still sorting through their pitchers. The Cards seem set up to prevail in a short series. Neither team played great down the stretch and both teams have playoff-tested Hall of Fame-caliber managers, so this will be fun.

GERRY FRALEY
This is, by far, the better matchup for the Cardinals. The Dodgers lack a dominating starter. Their opening-game starter, lefthander Randy Wolf, is the bad-karma pitcher of the season. The Dodgers have nine blown saves behind Wolf, who has trouble getting beyond the sixth inning. Lefthander Clayton Kershaw allowed 4.79 walks per nine innings and also usually departs in the middle innings. The bullpen is fried after working 553 innings, the third-highest total in the majors. (The Cardinals’ bullpen had the fewest innings in the majors at 437.) The Cardinals were also among the first team to discover that Manny Ramirez, the Dodgers’ No. 3 hitter, can no longer handle hard stuff inside. Ramirez went 4-for-28 with no homers, one RBI and only two extra-base hits during the season series with the Cardinals.

35 comments

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It sounds as if we work the count and pound manny inside, Cards in 4.

— OBIE 1975
12:46 pm October 5th, 2009

Does anyone else think that the Cardinals purposely tanked the end of the season so that they would draw the more favorable matchup with the Dodgers? The Cards have played the Dodgers very well historically and this year was no different. Plus the Dodgers are horrible in the postseason. The Rockies, on the other hand, are a dangerous team and best left to the Phillies to contend with.

— Dave
12:57 pm October 5th, 2009

Cards in 5. They will win the first one, blow the next three, and then come back for a dramaic finish, winning the last two.

— Ryan Wiggins
1:21 pm October 5th, 2009

Ryan,
1 + 3 + 2 = 6

— bh
1:30 pm October 5th, 2009

thanks BH for the math…i was just about to post that.

— SRV
1:39 pm October 5th, 2009

I do, Dave. Not that they actually tanked on purpose, but they did not play to the best of their ability because they had the division in the bag.

— CPatrick
1:40 pm October 5th, 2009

Dodgers will sweep !! P.S. Hope your proud of your Rams!!You can have
them.

— Fat Midwestern Nerd
1:46 pm October 5th, 2009

I’m with you, Dave. I’m a life long Birds fan and live in L.A.. Aside from wanting to be able go see the Birds here in L.A., I was hoping that Philly and Col would get the chance to beat up on eachother while we would get the easier match-up. I think Col is the scariest proposition of the 3 for us. Tony knows. I gaurantee, though nobody would ever admit to it, our line-up was on cruise control for the last 4 or 5 games with match-ups in mind.

— gccardinal
1:46 pm October 5th, 2009

Ryan, The math made sense to me, but I went to Collinsville.

— Mike Hoss
1:46 pm October 5th, 2009

The new steroid free Manny ain’t so tough is he. Why hasn’t he been given the Bonds or Canseco treatment? Run the bum outta the game! Torre may give them the edge as he is the better manager. But it will all boil down to pitching.

— Tawbrd
1:48 pm October 5th, 2009

A Dodgers sweep??? Maybe you should spend less time in traffic and more time watching Wainwright and Carpenter pitch. You’ll see it soon enough though, I guess… assuming you can make it to the game in the first 8 innings.

(oh and sweet Rams dig - that’s like a homeless guy making fun of the landscaping at someone’s mansion - then again you also probably know plenty about that!)

— Uzi toting Smog Lungs
1:55 pm October 5th, 2009

The Cardinals don’t matchup well against the Phillies or the Rockies. If they get pass the Dodgers the Cradinals do stand a better chance in a seven game series versus five game series against either club.

— c. m. jackson
1:56 pm October 5th, 2009

Dave, it can’t help but cross your mind. But, ultimately I think TLR is incapable of “playing to lose.” I think the last 2 weeks were simply a product of the team exhaling after playing a tough, tough season. Well, that and the bullpen hit a bump–better then than in the playoffs, I’m hoping–and they had some really weird games. Oh, and TLR using Todd Wellemeyer in the 9th inning of a tied ballgame yesterday and then bringing the joke back to pitch the 10th, despite the fact that he gave up the go-ahead run in the 9th. What a surprise that he came back in the 10th and gave up the go-ahead run(s) AGAIN. Nobody could have seen that coming (not).

— ldomino
1:57 pm October 5th, 2009

It isn’t lack of steroids for Manny, it is the extra long locks. Too much weight pulling him backwards, and upright to have a decent swing. Makes the t’backer juice flow backward toward the throat, but makes a bigger spit. Aside from all that, he is older. He will probably have a career post season against Carpenter and Wainwright. I hope the Cards have some of that 2006 elixcir available to help re-focus, because they sure lost it in September, despite no AAA call ups until mid-September. Let’s get number 11 Cards!

— Rahb
2:12 pm October 5th, 2009

Not bad math? the first round if I am not mistaken is the best 3 out of 5. Thus meaning if the Cards win the first and LA wins the next three, then the Cards are out of it.

GO BLUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

— hockeyfan13
2:15 pm October 5th, 2009

Joe Torre is not a better mgr than TLR. Take away the NYY payroll and he’s below average.

— akesjefe
2:28 pm October 5th, 2009

The Gods of Baseball (and the umpires) still owe us a W.S. Might as well be this year. Put on your game faces and BRING IT, Cards!!!

— Larry Stout
2:41 pm October 5th, 2009

Ryan,
I don’t see a problem with your math but then I went to Ladue High School.

— RBD
3:17 pm October 5th, 2009

please….I love our Cardinals as much as the next guy but they’re done..over..finished… to quote Springsteen, “we had it once, we ain’t got it anymore”

Cards do their best Rams imitation by going 3 and out…

— Observer
3:21 pm October 5th, 2009

My wife weighs 350 , I love Hardees and my Cardinals. Marc Bulger
for President!! My trailer is nice!!

— Mullet Midwesterner
3:52 pm October 5th, 2009

I think Manny needs to be tested after every game during this series. Ever since he’s been off the juice he hans’t really producd much for the Dogers.

— MUDon
3:56 pm October 5th, 2009

I don’t think the Cardinals purposely tanked, but, did they not overextend themselves to avoid unnecessary injuries? Yes. Did TLR make moves that he wouldn’t have made prior to clinching or in the postseason, such as taking Wainwright out in the 6th inning Friday or, bringing in Wellemyer from the pen Sunday? Yes. Did a combination of relaxed concentration, both @ the plate and in the field contribute to sloppy play that caused them to lose a few games they should have won after clinching? Yes. Does any of this mean anything relevant to the upcoming series with the Dodgers? I don’t think so, but, we’ll see.

— jpennell
4:06 pm October 5th, 2009

Torre is the better manager? Take another look at the stats,Tawbrd. Love him or hate him,we(I think that means all of St. Louis)have enjoyed a nice little run here since 1996.And while looking at the stats,I found TLR is in the top 3 all time in wins.Did not see Joe Torre’s name there anywhere.I agree that Joe Torre is a good manager,but I do think the NY payroll helped him.Put him in Pittsburgh and the book would have quite a different ending.

— Brian
4:06 pm October 5th, 2009

That earlier post by MUDon was awesome. make sure Albert is off
cycle too. Its obvious.

— Mark McGuire
4:13 pm October 5th, 2009

Observer. It’s attitudes like that which have earned us the title of “best fans in baseball.” I seem to recall the ‘06 team scuffling a bit in September as well. Relax. It’ll be OK.

— keep it real
4:14 pm October 5th, 2009

Cardinal fan in Los Angeles says The Cardinals in 5. I will never forget the beat in 1982, Jack Clark and Ozzie WOW! Now we have Albert and his cast. I would like to se another NYY v. STL series with STL prevailing.

— Daniel
4:15 pm October 5th, 2009

Yeah, you LA guys spend your free time trolling our newspaper’s website, and WE’RE the fat nerds? Give me a break.

And nice try with the Rams comment. I don’t care if they’re the worst team in the history of sports. We’re talking about BASEBALL, son. You’re out of your element.

— Average-sized Midwesterner
4:19 pm October 5th, 2009

“My wife weighs 350 , I love Hardees and my Cardinals. Marc Bulger
for President!! My trailer is nice!!”

I love it when folks out here in Cali try to act like they don’t have dirty, booger-eating hoosiers in the Central Valley.

Cards sweep…

— BirdFanInBabylon
4:54 pm October 5th, 2009

Dodgers in 4

— Mick
4:58 pm October 5th, 2009

L.A. fan is cranking on the Rams? Though it’s true that USC could probably beat the Lambs, someone from a city of 10 mil w/ no football team has a lot to be humble about. Enjoy your big football event of the year: UCLA v USC. Or your kid’s Pop Warner runner-up game. At least we can see good f-ball teams when they stop by STL for a W.

— couchprofessor
5:05 pm October 5th, 2009

Hey Ryan That’s six games….after LA wins three we done

— trappedbysmallbears
5:50 pm October 5th, 2009

Torre’s story would be different if he managed the Pirates? And LaRussa’s wouldn’t? Torre had payroll…LaRussa had pretty good fortune managing some of the best juicers in the game. Whatever. The only thing in our favaor managerial-wise is LaRussa has a knack for winning the short playoff series. Cards in 4 despite only 5 hits per game…no-brainer.

— Chumley
6:31 pm October 5th, 2009

TLR is a much better at managing the game while Torre is better at managing personalities which sometimes is better depending on the team but the Cards mesh well this year and have no personality issues I’ve heard of so I think the edge goes to TLR w/ this team. But Torre is the Phil Jackson of MLB and actually better. He doesn’t promote team unity he promotes staying off each others nerves and their is no player he can’t manage while Tony can’t manage half of pro players.

— Davis
8:18 pm October 5th, 2009

Cardinals played against much easier hitters and pitchers than the Dodgers. Their excellent 1-2 starters only yield one less run per game than Wolf-Kershaw, against a much softer division. The number two team in the NL Central is only the 18th best team in baseball. Dodgers closer, Broxton — set up brilliantly by Sherill — provides huge advantage over floundering Franklin. Dodgers hurt Franklin, win close game, win series in 5. You can take it to the bank. Cards, and their fans, are hugely overconfident.

— michael from arizona
12:15 pm October 6th, 2009

Ryan, there are 3 kinds of people in the world, those who understand math and those who don’t!

— Sandfleaz
3:30 pm October 6th, 2009