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10.13.2009 1:39 pm

Is it wise to tie up so much money in Pujols and Holliday?

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
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THE WATERCOOLER:
Is it smart baseball to spend nearly 40 percent of a team’s payroll on two players as the Cardinals could do with Albert Pujols and Matt Holliday?

JOE STRAUSS:
No. If the payroll were $125 million, then maybe. But with a $100 million payroll as the Cards were last year. No.

RICK HUMMEL:
If it were Pujols and Bob Gibson, maybe. But one of the players has to be a pitcher to be worth it.

BERNIE MIKLASZ:
The Cardinals are up against it unless they expand the payroll. If you count Albert Pujols’ existing contract, they’re alread obligated to pay out a guaranteed $55 million-plus to players in 2010, and it’s about the same in 2011. And keep in mind that the salary number is likely higher than that, because it does not include the arbitration-related salaries that will be paid to Ryan Ludwick and Skip Schumaker. On the positive side, the list does include three starting pitchers who are locked in for the next two (at least) seasons: Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright and Kyle Lohse. So they do have a rotation foundation to work with. And there are some young pitchers (Jaime Garcia, Blake Hawksworth, Mitchell Boggs, etc.) worthy of an opportunity. But if Matt Holliday commands, say, $15 million a year, you are looking at $70 million to $80 million guaranteed obligations for each of the next two seasons.And that doesn’t include Pujols’ likely increase if there’s a new contract for him. Either way, it doesn’t leave a lot of spending room for other needs, including third base, a strong fourth outfielder, perhaps a veteran starting pitcher, and the bench. The Cardinals can pull it off, but it’ll be tight. The question is: what is Holliday worth? Is he a $20 million a year player? No. Is he a $15 million a year player? I don’t think so, but he will be if some other team is crazy enough to offer it. I can’t set Holliday’s market price. The teams shopping for left fielders will do that. But I see no reason why he’d have to be paid as much as Pujols. Not even close, really. If the market breaks in the Cardinals’ favor, they might be able to get Holliday at a “reduced rate”, though we’re still talking about an awful lot of money.

DERRICK GOOLD:
If that were the Cardinals only payroll bloc to maneuver around then maybe. But it’s not. The Cardinals also have Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright and Kyle Lohse locked up for, possibly, the next three seasons, and in 2011 that trio will cost $33.5 million That means more than two-third of the projected payroll can be isolated on five players. The only way the Cardinals — or any other team for that matter — can lump so much of the payroll on so few players is if they can count on getting contributions from prospects and young stars — not players, stars — who not yet arbitration eligible. Colby Rasmus, for example, is one. Brendan Ryan, for another couple seasons, is another. Lefty Jaime Garcia projects as one. Outside the organization, however, the Cardinals are not viewed as a team that can lean this much on its minor-league system. The depth of the organization has improved. But its depth is mainly in complementary players. The Cardinals have players who will play in the majors. But there is a difference between minor-leaguers who play in the majors, those who stay in the majors and ones who will star in the majors. The Cardinals don’t have the obvious contributors storming up the ranks to paint themselves into a financial corner.

54 comments

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Commish is spot on. Spend the extra money on pitching. Let Ludwick, Rasmus and Freese develop around that Pujols guy. Thats the future we need to focus on.

— L. Adam
1:54 pm October 13th, 2009

Derrick, do you really think the Cardinals would have Lefty Garcia on their roster? Having a starting pitcher that is a
lefthander would be as novel as having a real second baseman.

— Fred Walton
2:12 pm October 13th, 2009

Personally, I don’t care much for Holliday. Someone else might have picked up on this, but I was really bothered by Holliday saying “Obviously, I feel bad” after Game 2. Obviously?? To me, that was him saying that he feels bad (which he doesn’t) only because he’s supposed to feel bad after screwing up. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think he sees himself and $$$ first instead of winning. I would be happy to have him come back if he works with the Cards for a deal. I don’t think that’s going to happen…I think he’ll happily go to the highest bidder and have no regrets.

— bs
2:18 pm October 13th, 2009

I say we look at what is available on the infield first. We have two solid options for LF on our IF (DeRosa and Schumaker). If we can find cheap production at either of those 2 spots, why not move one of these 2 to the OF. I know we were all excited to see Holliday come in at the deadline, but now wouldnt you be excited to see Brett Wallace given a chance to win the 3B spot in spring training. Don’t think Lugo is the answer everyday at 2B but management may lean this way with the money committed to him for next season.

— Jon
2:27 pm October 13th, 2009

As the NLDS proved, you have to have someone to protect Pujols. He might put up MVP numbers over the course of a season but when it matters most (playoffs) opposing managers are just going to pitch around Pujols to avoid max damage. It sure worked well in the Dodgers series. If you don’t think Holliday is worth the money he will command then you have to go out and get another legitimate clean-up guy to hit behind Albert, say Jason Bay.

— Grant
2:28 pm October 13th, 2009

Everyone should remember that the Cardinals are bigger than any single player. And even though this is heresy–that includes even Pujols. If AP and Tony must have Matt around to stay with the Cardinals, as some suggest, then maybe DeWitt and Mo should be thinking about saving some real dough. Let Albert, Matt, Troy, Rick A., Khalil, Kennedy, etc., all go for younger players and prospects. Take the two draft picks for Matt, more top young players and prospects for Albert, and so on. Let’s go find the next Albert or Hanley Ramirez and build around him and Carp, Waino, Colby, Brendan, etc. Use the extra cash on someone like Halliday (with an “a”) and a real closer and quality relief. The Marlins were in the playoff hunt at the end of the year with a $20M payroll. Tampa was second overall last year with not much more than that. Imagine what the Cardinals can do with four times that and some smarts. I’m old enough to have seen a lot of trades of overpaid “big name” players for underpaid younger guys in all the major sports. Eric Dickerson anyone? Let’s build the team with guys who still have to hustle to keep their roster spot–and don’t start walking halfway down to first base on a ground-out. I repeat, make credible offers to these guys, while remembering there will always be other players we can get behind. If the current group must have their $20M a year, go get it somewhere else. Can you say Edgar? See you in New York, Boston, Chicago and LA, and enjoy their media while you’re at it. Unless St. Louis fans want to keep seeing ticket prices go higher than an airplane ride to the coast and back, some of these players should be allowed to go ride someone else’s gravy train. Old school fans of Cardinal Nation unite!

— Ben L.
2:33 pm October 13th, 2009

Let’s be clear–when I included Kennedy, I was talking about his leftover salary. Thanks.

— Ben L.
2:38 pm October 13th, 2009

I wonder how much deeper I’ll be digging for my tickets next year. The fans bailed out this year with great attendance numbers - which allowed the FO to pick up players. I believe that ticket prices stayed the same this year over last, although the team may have enjoyed some ‘revenue enhancement’ from the secondary ticket market (Stub Hub?) that advertised and ran for every game.

My price point has already been broken with $7.75 beers. I hope I won’t be saying the same thing with my tickets next year. But I surely do like watching wins more than losses.

— Joepa
2:44 pm October 13th, 2009

It would be smart to pay Pujols what is necessary and go from there. He is quite possibly the best player in baseball. He also draws so many fans and interests that even for a loyal fan base might not buy a ticket or buy merchandise, etc. After that, you have to re-think the idea of protecting Pujols. Matt Holliday was there and Joe Torre still did not blink in walking Pujols.

That requires the hitters ahead of Albert to clog the bases so there isn’t an open base to put Albert on and it requires the hitters behind Albert to be patient and draw walks if they don’t get a good pitch to drive because it keeps the bases clogged for the next hitter to get a pitch to drive. At this point, we aren’t talking about grand slams but 2-run singles or 3-run doubles and you don’t have to have a power hitter, just a solid hitter with plate discipline.

— Michael Scriven
3:16 pm October 13th, 2009

As for Julio Lugo, Boston is paying his salary for 2010. Unless Lugo reaches a vested option, to STL his cost is $0.

— Michael Scriven
3:19 pm October 13th, 2009

The answer to this question is simply no. And that is why it won’t happen long term. No team can tie up such amounts in limited resources no matter how good the player. What is not asked, that should be, is it even prudent to tie up Pujols alone for the roughly 25 - 30 percent of overall payroll he will command. And again, emotions aside, the answer will be no but we may do it anyway. The only way Holliday comes on board for 15 mil per year or more is if they intend to trade AP or at least want to safeguard against his possible departure. And again, emotions aside, that might just be the most prudent long term approach.

— Matt
5:03 pm October 13th, 2009

They’ve got pujols for 2 more years. Then he begins his slide. The clamor to lock him up for many years now is wrongheaded.

Holliday was seeking his true level of play in September. His July razzle-dazzle was no more reliable a guide to the future than Gary Gaetti’s for the cubs in ‘98, or Carlos Beltran’s torrid playoffs just before he became a free agent.

— Seymour Baseball
6:44 pm October 13th, 2009

What were Holliday’s numbers from September 1 on? Not that great. He’s a streak hitter who can be a defensive liability (no further explanation necessary). We are getting Lugo for free. Move Skip back to the outfield, promote Freese, lock up Albert, and go with what you got. I have a feeling that Freese could be more than average if given the chance.

— Inomorthnu
6:56 pm October 13th, 2009

Could all of you TLR bashers please tell me what manager in the majors today you would rather have? The only one I could possibly consider is Joe Torre, but I still would rather have TLR. He is the most prepared manager in the game hands down. If you truly believe that you can make better decisions than him, get off the internet and start managing because if you think you can be better than him, you will be amongst the top 5 managers of all time. It is completely ridiculous to bash his managing. Maybe you don’t like his juggling of the lineup or maybe you don’t like the way he stresses over late inning matchups or maybe you don’t like his old school attitude or maybe you just think he’s ugly, but bottom line, he puts everything he has into this team and, most importantly, HE WINS. Doesn’t he have more wins than any current manager? Doesn’t he have a ring in both leagues? Didn’t he lead teams in 2007 and 2008 that were depleated of talent and injury riddled to respectable seasons? Didn’t he WIN A FREAKING CHAMPIONSHIP three years ago? All of you need to realize how good we have it. You sound like spoiled brats and need to realize that TLR is a huge part of the success we’ve enjoyed. If you do not want him back go root for Dusty’s Reds and watch what happens when a manager makes decisions on a whim and is more worried about his toothpick than his team.
TLR bashers: JUST SHUT UP!!

— aaron
7:29 pm October 13th, 2009

The big bucks need to be spent on Pujols and pitching, pitching and more pitching. I’d like to see Cards acquire a more legit No. 3 pitcher–a John Lackey, perhaps?–and leave Lohse as no better than No. 4 or No. 5. Then hope a rookie–ideally Garcia–earns the No. 5 spot this spring. So where does that leave Smoltz? To challenge Lohse for a starting spot since I’d be shocked to see Lohse and Smoltz combine for 15 wins total next season. Lohse’s career stats show he’s a bottom of the rotation pitcher, not good enough to be among a team’s top 3. So it’s disappointing to read in the P-D that front office thinks of Lohse as a No. 3. That No. 3 spot–as well as another late inning relief pitcher–is where St. Louis needs to spend some money on quality new talent; not dumpster diving reclamation projects. I’d love to see Holliday back in St. Louis hitting cleanup. However, not at an overvalued, inflated cost Boston, NY, LA, Chicago and Detroit seem willing to pay. Borax bucks. No thank you. Seeing how Cliff Lee pitched for Phillies since coming to NL, wouldn’t you have rather had Lee on the mound allowing no more than 1 or 2 runs than Holliday at the plate (or the field, for that matter)? For Cards to defend as Central Division champs, they need to maintain a high quality and deep pitching staff that doesn’t fall apart when one goes on the DL.

— SouthernIllinoisBoy
7:59 pm October 13th, 2009

The Cards have a great dilemma. They need a legit number four hitter to protect Pujols and thicken the lineup if they are going to contend for a title. To highlite this point, all you have to do is look at the post season teams lineups that are playing for their respective league pennant right now. If the Cards are serious about signing Pujols long term, they will probably need to expand their payroll. They need to amp up and modify there bullpen situation and add a #3 type starting pitcher. They have some AAA players that should fill in the bench. I don’t see Pujols renegotiating his contract unless he is assured the Cardinals will do what is necessary to put a viable contender on the field. That spells payroll increase in my way of thinking.

— drelboc
8:29 pm October 13th, 2009

Aaron, not sure but if you think I’m a Tony basher, you’re wrong. Tony is a class act–always has been. I’m just as happy to see him stay as go. I’m just saying that the Cardinals as an organization do not need to be held hostage by any one person, player, manager, hall-of-famer–anyone. The team will go on, no matter who wears the uniforms. I’m just old school. These guys are getting paid to play a game, and paid a lot. If $13 or $14 million a year isn’t big enough for someone’s ego, then maybe they need to take their ego somewhere else. I think maybe the fans should re-think this clamor for big name players when often it can be the fringe guys who make all the difference in the playoffs. We need guys who are hungry, want to play, and want to win–plain and simple–without breaking the wallets of the fans who make the game what it is. Take away the fans and you’ve got a bunch of guys playing fastpitch on a Sunday afternoon.

— Ben L.
8:55 pm October 13th, 2009

I’ll make this decision easy for all of these guys. Just stop paying obscene amounts of money for poor baseball and flat beer, and they can “earn” themselves $2 million instead of $25 million. Easy fix. That’s why I only watch high school sports. Tres pure.

— Butters
9:49 pm October 13th, 2009

The Cardinals will not make the PLAYOFFS if they only score 2 or 3 runs in most games. First of all if i am not mistaken Pujols & Holliday BOTH fell off in Sept numbers. Ludwick had the best Sept. After what the Dodgers did by walking Pujols in the Playoffs look for MORE teams to do the samething all during the 2010 season. As long as the bases are NOT loaded they will walk Pujols more often.In order to slow that down you will have to have a BIG BAT at #4 & #5 in the batting order. RYAN LUDWICK will be good as a #4 or #5 hitter as we have seen the last 2 years!!!! We need to LOCK Ludwick up for the next 4-5 years. Problem is who is the other BIG BAT????
YES i want Matt Holliday back!!!!!!! Yes i want Mark DeRosa back,BUT after he has wrist cut on when will he be 100%?? If we lose Holliday or DeRosa or both can Freese,Craig,T.Greene step in and hit 5th and protect Pujols & Ludwick?? Will Pujols want to stay after 2011???
If Holliday & DeRosa does not resign you could move Schmaker back to the outfield with Ludwick & Rasmus and then TRY to find a power hitting 2nd baseman to hit 5th??
I think Freese and Craig both should be on the 25 man roster next year. Just not as the protection for Pujols in the 5th spot in the order.
Schumaker,Rasmus,Pujols,Holliday,Ludwick,DeRosa,Ryan & Molina is a GREAT LINE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have Freese & Craig as super subs at 3rd & outfield. Use DeRosa as a infielder & outfielder. For some reason
Schumaker,Rasmus,Pujols,Ludwick,Freese,Craig,Ryan & Molina just dont sound as great. But to be FAIR when Fred Lynn & Jim Rice 1st came up that line up didnt look great till about June!!!!!! So who really knows??? That is why the off season is also fun!!!!!!

— Bryan Cathey
10:30 pm October 13th, 2009

If the Cardinals have Wainwright,Carpenter,Lohse,Smoltz & Garcia as the 5 starters and they pitch the way they can that is a GREAT START. Hawksworth,Miller,Motte,Boggs,Franklin,and 1 more relivers in the bullpen not bad. I think Franklin did a good job as closer this year and i would have no problem with him closeing next year. But i still like the FIREBALLING,BLOW YOU AWAY STRIKE OUT CLOSERS. Just me, I always have. Again have no problem with Franklin closeing for the Cardinals in 2010!!!!
I still LOVE the way the Cardinls went out and got Holliday,DeRosa,Lugo,& Smoltz to help get the Cardinals to the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The ONLY player i wish we could have kept was Jess Todd. BUT you have to give up good players to get good players. Since those 4 helped get us to the playoffs i would say make all those trades again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

— Bryan Cathey
10:49 pm October 13th, 2009

Bernie - what are you smoking? Holliday is a 20+ million a year player for six+ years. He is generally rated as the number 1 or 2 free agent position player. And Boras is his agent! Holliday is 29. My guess is that in the down market Holliday gets 21 mil and six years. 15 mil and 5 years just ain’t going to happen. My guess, Holliday’s Giant.

— willmose
11:36 pm October 13th, 2009

Goodbye Holliday. I’m sure it will be worth it to play in a Boston or New York, but remember when you choke out there (and you will) it is magnified by a thousand.

— R. Moore
1:04 am October 14th, 2009

So to simplify what the experts are saying, the Cardinals cannot, on their current payroll, afford to pay a championship team. And as a result we should expect more seasons like this one in which the Cards are embarrassed in the playoffs, mixed in with seasons like last one in which they do not make the playoffs.

Do the fans know this? Do the reporters, columnists, and talk show hosts interviewed here tell the fans this on a continuing basis? I mean be honest gentlemen. What you are saying is that the St. Louis Cardinals can no longer afford a championship team.

— Kenneth Ranson
1:09 am October 14th, 2009

Offer Holliday $12,500,000 a year for six years, and if he insists on more, let him walk.

— pinchhittter
5:34 am October 14th, 2009

Who knows why but just after Franklin got his new contract, things went downhill. Intentional slacking? I think not but ironic.

Pujols: Trade him for a bunch of young talent, keep Holliday, and the other MO add-ons and let 5 sulk other places.

AMEN?

— Ray in Columbia
6:44 am October 14th, 2009

As several people have already stated, lots of decisions to be made and I don’t envy the front office because for the most part it’s one big crapshoot. How many guys consistently put up the numbers a club expects from high priced athletes (tino martinez, adam kennedy, khalil greene to name a few who didn’t)? I say we lock in a core of really great/good players (Pujols, Wainwright, Molina, Ludwick and Shumaker) and build around them. We have done that already so the rest is simply adding talented guys from the minors and a few free agents.
I don’t think Holliday is worth more than Glaus was (12 mil a year) but I’m sure the big spenders will. Is DeRosa going to be healthy after surgery or will he follow Glaus into the infirmary? Too many questions and no easy answers. Then again, isn’t that what makes sports exciting?

— Old Man Riva
7:49 am October 14th, 2009

Keep Pujols at any cost. Try to get Holliday. If you can’t work a deal, lock up DeRosa and try to find a reasonable replacement for Pinero.

— jfmoyn
8:07 am October 14th, 2009

I almost don’t know what to say to those of you who want to let Pujols walk. He is 29 years old and one of the best baseball players ever to wear a uniform. If you were the front office would you let Bob Gibson walk? Stan? Lou? Pujols is the kind of player who comes along once in a generation and can carry a team. Do you really think we would have made the playoffs this year if he did not have a monster 1st half? Get a grip on yourselves. Pay the man whatever he wants and thank your lucky stars you drafted him in the first place because every other team in the major leagues wishes they were us!

— shelly
8:16 am October 14th, 2009

Agree completely with Hummel. Pujols is the priority. Doubtful that Boras will let Holliday stay here anyway. His price will only be affordable by the unlimited budgets of Yankees or Red Sox. The young talent must be allowed to develop and we must always improve the pitching.

— FloridaFan
8:38 am October 14th, 2009

Holliday’s agent is Scott Boras…end of story. He won’t be back next year unless he can make huge bucks, and the Cards would be wrong to pay anyone more (or even reasonably close) to Albert Pujols.

— Eener
9:18 am October 14th, 2009

Holliday’s agent is Scott Boras…end of story. He won’t be back next year unless he can make huge bucks, and the Cards would be wrong to pay anyone more (or even reasonably close) to Albert Pujols.
Sorry… forgot to say great post - can’t wait to read your next one!

— Eener
9:26 am October 14th, 2009

I’ll agree with Shelly on this one. Letting Albert walk is beyond stupidity, and shows a total loss of any long term baseball perspective. You don’t even consider that possibility with the best player of your generation. He has been the reason that the Cardinals have had the best National League record over the past nine years. He IS our advantage.
At the same time, you have to develop more than complementary players at the minor league level. I’d like to see Craig given more than a substitute’s chance. He was the best hitter at the Triple A level for second half of last year. Our biggest issue is we have not developed ANY pitching at the minor-league level which is our negative handicap.
Maybe our recent first round draft pick will reverse that trend, but he’s likely to be a few years away from making any contribution.
Back to the main point, the trade Albert talk ridiculous and a total waste of calories.

— alpo12
9:33 am October 14th, 2009

That would be the trade Albert talk is ridiculous. Perfect english is a long term pursuit.

— alpo12
9:36 am October 14th, 2009

Is it just me or did anyone else notice a change in Albert’s personality this year? I don’t know if it was frustration with his elbow or some of his teammates or his idea of how a leader should act. But Jim Edmonds was a leader. Derek Jeter is a leader. And I just haven’t seen them act the way Pujols did this year. He also applies this leadership selectively. When’s the last time he got up in Molina’s grill? Albert Pujols is one of the greatest players of all time, and I’d like to keep Albert as much as the next guy. I was just pointing out another way to look at it, since this is a business, and that his market value is at its peak. I wouldn’t trade him except for an absolutely loaded deal on the other side. But don’t be ridiculous and act like the Cardinals can be nothing without Albert Pujols, or that he’s irreplacable. I repeat: no single player, manager, or even hall-of-famer–no individual period–is greater than the team. Wise up!

— Ben L.
9:45 am October 14th, 2009

I LOVE Pujols but my gut tells me that the 2011 Albert Pujols won’t be the player we love today. His health is an issue. After coming off surgery and his 2nd half decline in power numbers, we have to look closely at him. Sure many stopped pitching to him, but beyond that, is he 100%?

— Adam
9:48 am October 14th, 2009

Another point to consider is an argument for a more balanced lineup, not being totally dependent on 1 player. If the Cardinals had the Yankees payroll and could stack their lineup as they have, that’s one thing. But if that’s not possible, it makes sense to me to have a more diversified offense. I don’t want to insult anyone’s intelligence, but $40 million equates to four $10 million players, $50 is five and so on. If Albert does get injured, everyone will realize how faulty this non-diversified strategy is. The Cardinals were at their best when they had the 3VP in 2004 before injuries cost them the Series. One other guy won’t protect Albert Pujols. You need a whole team to do that. And since we know that good pitching beats good hitting, but you have to score some runs too, how in the world can it make sense to anyone on this board to have over 40% of your payroll locked up by two players? If payroll were the only determining factor in baseball, the Yankees would win every year. Newsflash: They don’t. I like Albert, Matt, Tony, Dunc, all these guys as much as the next guy. But this is a business and must be looked at that way. All points of view must be considered before the best decisions can be made.

— Ben L.
10:00 am October 14th, 2009

Butters - I’m with ya. And add that what counts is the game of the day, how well it’s played, with good sportsmanship, not whether it’s won or lost. And the “standings”, the mania for “us” to be “champions” is just psychotic.

— Seymour Baseball
11:25 am October 14th, 2009

First we have a cleanup hitter.Tony just needs to play him every day.Ludwick’s numbers will be there!HE needs to be a starter!Now listen to the commish.Go get a #3 starter. Let the kids develop,get a true leadoff hitter!Sign Smoltz, for the pen.Let him teach some of our young arms how to be a reliver!Such as Motte.Let Franklin GO BACK to setup.As for Albert,he needs to be a better leader! I belive thats where this team fails.TLR quit waiting for the long ball.WE ALL like homeruns but sometimes speed works just as well.Someone once said speed doesnot go into slumps!As far as the free agents,DEROSA is a must.If you cant get Matt or Jason Bay to play left DEROSA can play Freese at 3RD

— Tony
11:31 am October 14th, 2009

Protecting Albert in the middle of the lineup is the wrong strategy. The plain fact is, Albert doesn’t belong in the middle of the lineup. Albert is a power hitter who hits for average. What we need is three batters in the middle who are clutch hitters. That means they have the ability to consistently hit under pressure. Albert, much as I like him, simply can’t do that. These guys don’t even have to be power hitters. They just simply have to hit the ball when it counts, and if it only goes to short center field, than that’s fine. If, as one person pointed out, Matt Holiday is a streak hitter, than that means that the Cardinals have “nada” in the clutch hitting department. They are out there. Look at the free-swinging Pirates for example. They can’t win games, but it isn’t because they are short on clutch hitters. They just don’t have the pitching to back it up. So if they’re going to win, it’s going to have to be 9-8 or some such. Put Albert in 7 or even 8 and leave him there (stop tinkering with the lineup) and go out and trade for 3 guys who can hit the ball in the clutch.

— Cards all the way
11:52 am October 14th, 2009

@ Cards all the Way

That has to be the dumbest post I have EVER read on this website, and THAT is saying quite a bit. Not gonna rant, just going to post Albert “not teh clutch” Pujols’ numbers this year with runners in scoring position (RISP) and with the bases loaded. RISP - .361 .556 .697 Loaded - .588 .524 1.647

— ObiWanRalph
12:27 pm October 14th, 2009

Focus on resigning Pujols, make a fair but not outrageous bid on Holliday, and see if he takes it. If not, go after another bat with a trade or another free agent signing. there are tons of players that would put up huge numbers batting 4th behind Albert. Holliday is great but lets not be obsessed here.

— lifelover1965
1:17 pm October 14th, 2009

When people compare the retention of Albert Pujols to the retention of Stan, Gibby or Brock —- they are being obtuse to say the least. This is a different time and era when it comes to the salaries that players command in relation to total payroll obligations.

Bob Gibson, Stan Musial and/or Lou Brock never commanded up to 30% of the Cardinals payroll budget.

The fact is - Free Agency has created a budget busting marketplace for top quality talent in MLB.If you don’t think that is true .. if Albert were to pull down 30 million/year and Holliday 20 million/year the combined salaries of Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright and Lohse would exceed the Payroll of EIGHTEEN teams in MLB last year.

That is dangerous economic planning to be budgeting that kind of money without (as DG put it) a minor league system set to augment the balance of the team.

Remember, the Cards gave up 5 of their top 10 prospects to bring in Holliday, DeRosa, Lugo and Smoltz.

— Darius Jacobs
2:58 pm October 14th, 2009

You can count on the lunatic fringe to show up on the Internet. I’m referring to SHAPPA. That there are people who really believe that almighty God gives a rat’s rear end about the outcome of our games is almost enough to lend a veneer of credibility to atheists. And as to whether Tony should be back, it’s well established that there are solid numbers who love him, want him back, and sold numbers who loathe him & want him gone yesterday. After all these years, it should be obvious that DeWitt is a lover & will have Tony back as long a Tony wants to come back.

— danomano
4:19 pm October 14th, 2009

The pay to prooduction just doesn’t measure up. We can find someone with some pop to hit in left for less, Vlademir Guerrero, he said back when he first signed with the Angels that he would have signed at a discount to play for the Cardinals, he could play left for a year or two.

— Jay
5:41 pm October 14th, 2009

Trading Pujols would be just plain stupid. You don’t trade a Musial, a Williams, a Mays, a Hornsby, or a Ruth. (Oops. Scratch those last two names.) But when the time comes to settle with Albert for our next phase with him, he’ll have to accept less from us than the moon that the Yankees or Red Sox would offer him. But he’ll be handsomely recompensed in various ways not least of which will probably be a statue similar to Stan’s and a stature in Cardinal history similar to Stan’s.

— pinchhittter
7:02 pm October 14th, 2009

If Pujols cares about winning as much as it seems, I doubt he will sign a 25-30 million/year contract with St. Louis. He knows as well as anyone that a contract of that size will hamper this team’s ability to surround him with quality players.

Winning, Playing in St. Louis, $5-10 million more/year. Those are the three things he will likely have to weigh as he makes his decision. He probably can’t have all three…

— Dude
10:28 pm October 14th, 2009

All of you saying trade Pujols WOW ARE YOU SERIOUS not smart again WOW

— scott
11:56 pm October 14th, 2009

I agree with Michael Scriven - having solid hitters with plate discipline is a better deal than a so-called power hitter. IMHO if the Cards had 2 excellent hitters in front of Albert and 2 excellent hitters behind him, I think an opposing manager would think twice putting Pujols on base. We already have part of that in house. This makes a lot more sense than tying up 15-20M per year in a guy who didn’t produce when the chips were down. Sorry, I am still a little steamed about Holliday’s 0.167 average in the NCLS.

— michael
12:16 am October 15th, 2009

We have ALBERT PUJOLS for 2 more years. If we WIN in 2010 & 2011 and look like we can be winners from 2012-2015 ALBERT WILL STAY!!!!!!! If we dont win in 2010-2011 and if we dont look like we can win from 2012-15 PUJOLS WILL BE A YANKEE,REDSOX,ANGELS,MET,DODGER,or GOD FOR BID A CUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So Mo & Bill has to build a winner,, NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How they will do that NO one knows.
After Mo picked up Holliday,DeRosa,Smoltz & Lugo this summer i now feel like he can get the job taken care of build a winner & keep Pujols!!!! Albert Pujols WANT sign a contract extention till late in 2011 if then. Pujols will make sure the Cardinals have with a chance to win in 2010 & 2011 or he want resign!!!!!

— Bryan Cathey
12:40 am October 15th, 2009

As far as protection behind Pujols there will be Ludwick. Next year you will see his numbers roughly between this years and last years, I expect him to hit 289 with 32 hr and 105 rbi. Same with Ankiel his numbers will fall in between this years and last, I project him to hit 274 with 27 hr and 89 rbi. Colby’s numbers will also improve slightly but mainly his avg and he will show he is a far more dangerous and multifaceted hitter than he showed this year. Unless Holiday gives us a big discount I say we let him peace out and we roll on to another divisional title. I think we need to resign Glaus especially if he gives us a discount which I think he will. B. Ryan will put up numbers similar to this year and so will Skip. Pujols will be Pujols and Yadi will be Yadi (and to everybody bashing Yadi on hitting into double plays this year, we wouldn’t have won the world series with him 3 years ago and he did have some dings going into the postseason this year so chill). Lugo and Derosa will be super subs and do those jobs well. Freese also makes the team next year and will be productive in a limited role.
As far as the pitching staff goes, Waino and Carp will be solid maybe not cy young material but definitely solid. Lohse will rebound and be almost as effective as Pinero was this year. Resign Smoltzie and give the 5th spot to a rookie and already are lineup is more consistently better than this year’s was. The bullpen however needs blown up. Miller will continue to be money but Franklin needs to be a setup man until he proves differently (but Tony will probably use him from the beginning and Franklin will continue with his September slump and lose his job to …? Hawksworth and Boggs need to be in the bullpen. I know I left a couple roster spots open but those will be wildcards decided on in spring training. The cardinals need to look for another closer and as many lefty pitchers as they can get and they will make a deep postseason run next year.
Lineup: Rotation: era
1. Skip .301/5/50 1. Waino 3.20
2. Colby .285/25/75 2. Carp 3.46
3. Albert .333/32/120 3. Lohse 4.23
4. Luddy .289/32/105 4. Smoltz 4.26
5. Glaus .285/25/90 5. Garcia 4.74
6. Ank .274/27/89
7. Yadi .293/3/54 Bullpen: I don’t know enough about the
8. Pitcher .099/3/19 contracts but should be complete overhaul.
9. Ryan .292/3/37
Season: 93-69 clinch N.L. Central
a. DeRosa .275/15/57
b. Lugo .277/2/37 Playoffs: c. Freese .281/10/42 Win World Series against d. Stavinoha.242/4/27 Yanks in 6 games after beating

Cubs in 7 in the NLCS.

— calm cool collected
5:39 am October 15th, 2009

wow that didnt turn out anything like it was supposed to…

— calm cool collected
5:46 am October 15th, 2009

Here is what I think I saw - Albert Pujols finally got some of the support he’d been craving and when attention shifted to Holliday, et al., What did he do? He pouted - as he was no longer THE center of attention! He is the greatest but he has some serious ego problems and he needs to act like a leader ALL OF THE TIME, not just when he is the hero. Concerning TLR and his “competition” for playing time, favorites, etc., well it is going to happen, but when the manager (also the greatest) comes off as a guy with a serious downer attitude or downer serious attitude, it can’t be too inspirational or motivating for his players. Finally, what ever happened to getting guys on base, hitting, running etc. - maybe the focus is not on manufacturing runs (plural) but how about just once in a while for god’s sake!

— david james
12:45 pm October 19th, 2009

Here is what I think I saw - Albert Pujols finally got some of the support he’d been clamoring for publicly, and supposedly craving and when attention shifted to Holliday, et al., What did he do? He pouted - as he was no longer THE center of attention! He is the greatest but he has some serious ego problems and he needs to ACT LIKE A LEADER ALL OF THE TIME, not just when he is the hero. Concerning TLR and his “competition” for playing time, favorites, etc., well it is going to happen, but when the manager (also the greatest) comes off as a guy with a serious downer attitude or downer serious attitude, it can’t be too inspirational or motivating for his players. Finally, what ever happened to getting guys on base, hitting, running etc. - maybe the focus is not on manufacturing runs (plural) but how about at least once a game for god’s sake!

— david james
12:49 pm October 19th, 2009

Just a thought about all this Albert Pujols contract status dialogue…Albert has two years left on his contract, right? Interestingly enough, Ryan Howard has two years left on his current contract…looking for a first baseman who will take a hometown discount??? RH is your man.

— Paul W.
9:29 am October 20th, 2009