Sign DeRosa. This move gives us the most versatility plus is insurance in case we can’t sign Holliday or Bay. If we sign Holliday or Bay he would be our fourth outfielder plus backing up at second and third. If we sign DeRosa and can’t sign Holliday or Bay then DeRosa becomes your left fielder with Mather and Craig backing up. Assuming this scenario, your clean-up hitter would then be either Freese, DeRosa, or Ludwick. Not exactly the anchor we’re looking for…with DeRosa and Holliday on board everything comes together…

As good of a team player as DeRosa is I doubt seriously if he will sign long term to be an outfielder. He wants to play 2b, or 3b if that’s not possible. I would like to see him signed but Schu would have to move to lf with fill-in starts at 2b to rest DeRosa.

If you sign Derosa, he starts and Shoe becomes the alternative starter/platoon player…

Craig and Schu would be a good platoon in left. Dunn would be the best alternative to Holliday but at a high price. Cards have already given up too many high prospects in previous trades. Holliday already said his goodbyes when he said he “enjoyed his time in St. Louis”.

Don’t panic and commit resources to an outfielder that can’t do more than Ryan Ludwick can. Given a full season of at-bats last year, Ludwick would have been a 30HR, .270BA guy, not to forget how he protected Albert in 2008. It also begs that the organization re-think the question of how to best protect Pujols, since NO cleanup hitter of any kind is going to make opponents pitch to Pujols and his 40HR, .330BA bat. The cleanup hitter doesn’t have to have a ton of power and if they don’t get a good pitch to drive, they should be willing to draw the walk, keep the bases clogged, and hand off a big RBI chance to the next hitter.

As it is, the lineup v. righties is 2B Lugo, LF Schumaker, 1B Pujols, CF Rasmus, RF Ludwick, 3B Freese, C Molina, SS Ryan, P Pitcher. The lineup v. lefties plugs Joe Mather in at LF & flips Ludwick & Rasmus in the batting order, if Ludwick isn’t the everyday cleanup hitter. I would be okay with that, and the leftover payroll that people like to complain about can be used in three ways:

1. Sign smaller deals like John Smoltz & Mark DeRosa. There is a chance that Randy Wolf or Carl Pavano may be available at a cheap price to start as the #5 and move up if Lohse struggles again. There may also be possible free agents that we are just assuming their clubs will re-sign that would be a solid upgrade in other areas.
2. Work on extensions to key players: Albert Pujols is signed through 2010 with a 2011 option. Chris Carpenter, Yadier Molina & Adam Wainwright are signed through 2011 with a 2012. It would be well worth the investment to do a long-term extension on Pujols to start.
3. Retain the money to make another big deadline deal. Even if you didn’t think the Cardinals could re-sign Holliday, at least you figured that adding his bat could send to the Cardinals deep into the playoffs. If this club goes through 2010 the way it did in 2009, it would have the finances to take on the pro-rated amount of a huge contract and not have to give up much in prospects by taking on the full contract.

Bring back Chris Duncan! Not!

Forget Holliday. Sign Damon.

And bat Mac fourth.

any love for Jayson Werth?

I like Johnny Damon as the LF. Short term deal, ideal leadoff or #2 hitter. Then you find a RH OF/CF who can really destroy lefties and you have a nice outfield rotation (Cody Ross maybe). DeRosa would work in that role as well….although he cannot play CF.

Alan - I think everyone loves Jayson Werth…he’s not a free agent and I am pretty sure the Phillies aren’t trading their only significant RH power hitter.

The Cards and everyone else missed the boat when Werth was available after the 2006 season when the Dodgers non-tendered him.

1. Josh Willingham. Think of him as Holliday-lite.
2. Xavier Nady. Incentive-laden deal. Great addition to the bench if Holliday re-signs or Craig is the real deal.
3. Mark DeRosa. He’s a favorite, but he’s going to be a Cub.
4. The Big Donkey. Protection and Chris Duncan defense memories.
5. Jermaine Dye.
6. Michael Cuddyer. Craig and P.J. Walters and Daniel Decalso for…

I’ll take Vlad Guerrero for two year and an option for a third. If you could get him for $10-12 per year, I would do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I think he will go for quite a bit more. He can still thump the ball, no matter whose on the mound or where the ball is. I’d take Francoeur if we use him at third base as the bag.

“If Holliday bolts, who plays LF?”

IF?

Holliday is gone like a fart in the wind.

Chris Duncan! Bring hime back. He is healthy now and well rested and with McGwire he will dominate the pitchers.

damon is older, and despite boras, might be available for less than a younger player for a shorter term. he is a run machine, the little engine that drives offenses. He has scored more than 100 runs/season ten times [including 2009], almost twice as many seasons as Lou brock did, and he’s still going. And while he often had big hitters behind him, he scored more than 100 runs in 3 of his 5 seasons with the woeful Royals, and also in his one year with the pathetic A’s. You have to be on base even for big hitters to drive you in. And he really knows how to play the game.

Lets not waste a lot of money on DeRosa. I wouldn’t give him more than 6-7 Million per year. I just want to see a full year out of him to insure you are getting a good deal. Nady would be a good option. Guerrero has been going downhill the last couple of years. The Cards would be stupid to give him a multi year contract for say $10 -12 Million per year. Lets be patient and see what options are really available when free agency starts. Bye bye Wellemeyer and Glaus.

What about Schu back to left, re-sign DeRo for 3B and make Lugo the primary 2B. I’m just not sold that Freese is ready to play every day. This way he’d be a spare part until he proves himself over an entire season. Use the “savings” from losing Holliday to FA and improve the pitching.

Trade for Pat Burrell from the Rays and get him back in the National League.

32hr. 80-90 rbi guy

Shut. Up. Just, shut up.

Let me ask the professional prognosticators this. Before Fantasy Baseball became what it is today (big money, stat overloaded rotogods) were there so many “fans” out there pulling names out of their hip pockets with contract variation capabilities? I am stunned at the depth and width of proposals moving players around like they were in the back room at LaFumiera’s pizza palace on draft Night.

My vote is for the Cardinals to try to make a trade with the Nationals and grab Adam Dunn. That is the trade the Cardinals should have done last year, not the Holliday trade. Dunn would be the PERFECT protection for Albert and Ludwick will be great protection for Dunn.

The one sensible comment is Hummel’s. There is a huge difference between AAA pitching and MLB, but Craig has earned the right to compete. With LaRussa returning, and McGwire as hitting instructor, Craig could have a take off year. Will LaRussa embrace a homegrown talent? Probably not. But the Cardinals’ front office wants him to manage the club. Craig’s career is likely to be like Ludwick’s; late to the bigs as long as LaRussa is the manager. Wasn’t Ludwick forced on him?

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Keep DeRosa! He is very versatile and has a great ability to provide leadership and maturity in the clubhouse. I want Holliday, too, but keep DeRosa no matter what!!!!

Unless the Cards are bringing back Ankiel, they need some LH power. Otherwise this offense will be mediocre against good RH pitching.

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NormalGuy … what would it take to “sell” you the idea that Freese is your everyday 3B? My goodness, he’s been highly productive throughout his climb in the minors and batted .323 in his limited time this year with the Cards. What more do you do with Freese other than give him the opportunity to be your everyday 3B?

As for the LF issue if/when Holliday heads for greener pastures, I’d re-sign DeRosa for 2 or 3 years, then mix-and-match your lineup. Split time in left field among a platoon of Schumaker, DeRosa, and Craig. Remember, Craig is normally a corner infielder but played significant time in the outfield in Memphis, so he could also be used to spell Pujols or Freese. At 2B you platoon with Schumaker, Lugo, and DeRosa. Surely DeRosa gets 400+ ABs, whether it’s playing LF, 2B, or 3B.

Invest the big bucks for extending Pujols’ contract. Ludwick can be your cleanup man and Freese/Craig can be batted 5th/6th, DeRosa can be batted 6th/7th. Shoot, you could even bat Freese/Craig 2nd against lefties. They’re bound to get something good to hit when batting ahead of Pujols. They’re proven .300 hitters in the minors, and they’re bound to replicate that hitting 2nd.

Hideki Matsui is a young 36. He may not figure in the Yankees long-term plans, especially if they win the World Series. Suppose Matt Holliday signs a free-agent deal with the Yankees and Johnny Damon stays there. Where does that leave Matsui, a free agent? He is a reliable fielder (not spectacular) who knows how to win, is a terrific clubhouse guy, and a clutch RBI guy. Look at his numbers the past six seasons–we could do a whole lot worse. He would not be as expensive as Adam Dunn or Jason Bay. His OBP is good, and his power numbers rate hitting him cleanup behind Albert Pujols. Why not Hideki? Roger Maris came over from the Yankees cheaply and helped us win two pennants in ‘67 and ‘68. Why not Hideki? He’s a proven winner. Get him for a two-year contract at a good value. Pencil him in for 25 homers and 90 rbi’s hitting behind Pujols and in front of Ludwick. Plus he hits lefties well. Go Cardinals!

Gee Mistro, tell us how you really feel. OK #1 Duncan will never come back here! #2 Damon is old! And he’s not leaving the East Coast to come and play in the NLC. #3 You people stop being so stoopid, its making my ears bleed!!!

Well, if Holliday & Bay are out of the equation, I’d try to sign Abreau to a 2- or 3-year deal with the idea of playing him in LF along with Craig. I like the idea of an above average LH bat in the cleanup spot (yes, I’d still bat Abreau No. 4 over Ludwick) along with giving Allen Craig a chance to see what he can do at the plate and in the field at the mlb level. I can’t imagine Craig’s LF defense being much worse than what Dunn offers with a glove in LF, and from what I saw of Abreau in 2009 and in the playoffs, he looked very respectable playing RF, imo; so I’d have no problems with Abreau and Craig sharing LF (and, ideally, Schu and the more power-packed DeRosa sharing 2B; forget Lugo).

Also, isn’t Jermaine Dye a FA as well? If so, he’s a player to consider for one of the corner spots opposite Ludwick. But if Craig has another real good Spring Training, he more than deserves his shot at some quality PT in the bigs. It would just be nice to have some LH power in the lineup in the form of a corner OFer.

BTW, from LF, Johnny Damon could not throw out an 82-year-old woman at home plate after tagging up at 3B. Why not Hideki? How about the fact he has not played the OF since June. I’ll say no thank you in spite of the fact the St. Louis lineup would look better injected with some decent LH power.

It was clear Holliday’s focus this NLDS were entirely on his upcoming “payday” and not winning. I’m just glad I wasn’t one of the idiots that gave him a standing ovation during game three.

Right - damon is such a terrible “thrower” that he’s a starting outfielder for the AL champs. Get a grip. The man scores over 100 runs a year and ignites the offense. Left field is a file cabinet for hitters who aren’t great or even good fielders. Brock was a mediocre outfielder, so was Coleman. Who cares about damon’s - allegedly bad - arm? It’s his bat, baserunning and gusto that counts.

Not sure why one of the best most profitable franchises in all of sports goes through this every year… Sports writers doing Bill Dewitt propaganda and trying to take the cheap way out… Why not go out and get Bay for 4 years 60 million? Stop playing on the Cheap. Pujols is only signed for 2 more years. Yeah you need to resign him, but what if he walks? Win now!!! You need a bat in the lineup that can actually give a semblance of protection for him.

According to the PDs list of potential free agents, Carl Crawford has a club option for the Rays and Jermaine Dye has a mutual option for the White Sox. Both clubs may or may not be willing to pay the options and make the player a free agent this off-season. If the options are picked up, the players would still be in line to become free agents the following off-season.

I don’t know where mr. koehler gets his figures, but according to Forbes, the cardinals were ninth in mlb in total revenues for 2008 [the most recent figures], and had less revenue [far less] than all 31 nfl teams. I don’t know much about accounting, so I don’t know what their relative profitablility was, but it seems to suggest [at least to me] that, as far as the nfl and mlb are concerned, the cardinals are not one of the most profitable teams of those two pro leagues taken together.

And no cardinal owner or front office person that I know of has indicated that they will not try to sign Bay [if he is available] if they can’t sign Holliday.

yeah adam dunn would add some homers to the lineup but he would also bring a disgusting amount of strike outs, mediocre fielding and a career .249 average, get real he’s definitely not the answer

Call me crazy but I say forget Holliday, sign DeRosa, let Craig, Freese, Mather, and whoever else I’m forgetting along with DeRosa cover third and left-field. Take that leftover ca$h and sign John Lackey from Anaheim. Now, that takes some punch out of the lineup but with Carpenter, Wainwright, Lackey, and Lohse, I’m not sure you would need much more offense than what you would get with the names above. Generally, excellent pitching wins in the post-season anyway…Who’s on board?
As a post-script I would add that Holliday is a BIG money player and the only reason you get BIG money players is for the BIG money games otherwise known as the playoffs and we all saw how that worked out. And I’m sorry, but saying you lost the ball in the lights is not a good enough excuse. Sure, it happens, but if you focus and perservere through it guess what, you’ll find that ball again on the other side of the lights and you’ll catch it. As you can see from the photo, Holliday did not do that…his freakin’ eyes were closed!

Signing DeRosa is a must, but put him at second and Schumaker in the outfield. Why have a strong-armed and quick outfielder at second and a natural infielder in the outfield?? Then you could platoon Craig in the outfield against lefthanders, and play Schumaker against righties.

If, and it’s a HUGE if, the Rays cut loose Carl Crawford, go hard after him. Power, plus SPEED, in the outfield. He’d look pretty good in Cardinal Red.

Why all of the sudden does everyone dismiss Schumaker at 2B, he is the starter there probably for the long term. If DeRosa comes back and Holliday does not this is what happens. A) DeRosa starts at 3B if David Freese fails to stake his claim to the position in Spring B) He starts in LF if David Freese looks at all capable of holding down 3B. Situation B means that DeRosa plays LF and spells Freese and Schu at 3B and 2B. Allen Craig could very be the sleeper this spring. He looked good last spring and during the year in the minors. Now that they know what they have at 3B and there is no longer the logjam in the OF like last year, I have no doubt that he gets a ton of work in the outfield. We dealt with Chris Duncan in LF for 3 years, and I understand that Craig has worked in the outfield before so he wouldn’t be learning on the job. Schu, Ryan, Pujols 1-2-3, Ludwick had great numbers while hitting 4th, Rasmus is a #5 hitter, Freese and Craig could form a formidible 6-7, molina 8. Honestly that isn’t a bad lineup, IF Freese and Craig translate well to the big leagues.

I don’t see Holliday returning unless we vastly overpay him. An incentive laden deal with Ankiel would benefit both parties plus giving Allen Craig opportunity and resigning DeRosa would seem to be a better, more fiscal idea.

It’s a fair question in that nothing is certain, and you have to be prepared for the worst. That said, Holliday’s not going anywhere. Or rather, the Cardinals aren’t going to let him.

He should be so lucky anyway, and he and probably knows it. He has always hit incredibly well in Busch (even before he was a Cardinal), and there’s not too many towns in America where you can blow a pivotal playoff game for your team and get a standing ovation on your first at-bat when you get back into town. Plus, he’s got to see the nucleus in place with Pujols, Wainwright, Carpenter, Molina, Ludwick, Rasmus. That’s a team that can play in September for years to come (especially when looking at the rest of the teams in the NL Central).

IF however, he just for whatever reason doesn’t sign, then the Dunne option is a great one if he won’t cost too much in terms of young talent. If not, give Alan Craig a shot.

I also think in that case you bring back Ankiel (there I said it). No way he doesn’t regress to the mean and play better next year. If he lights up the Spring, you move him to RF and Ludwick to LF.

If you can’t get Holliday or Dunne, I think you also make sure to re-sign DeRosa and spend some money on another starter (Rich Harden).

I think they should sign DeRosa for a one year deal and platoon him with Craig and Mather in left. He is so versatile being able to play the infield or outfield. I sure would like to see Mather have 400 ab’s in one season before throwing in the towel. Having Derosa would assure someone at 3rd base in case Freese can’t fit the bill. Dunn is nothing but a rally killer with the history of strikeouts whether he is batting 4th, 5th, or 6th. Ludwick can handle the clean up duties if Holliday isn’t signed. I would like to see a more stable line-up from lead off thru the 5th hitter instead of moving players around so much. I understand trying to keep all players fresh, but when you have the same line-up, the player knows what his job is before he comes to the ball park. He thinks about what he could of done better when he leaves the ball park. I feel When he is batting 2nd one day and 5th the next, he is not fully in tune with his job at hand.

How about guys that get on base around Pujols, a power hitter that strikes out all the time is not worth the money. The Cardinals should stop using role players as every day guys, no more outfielders playing second base!

I don’t know that anyone is dismissing Schumaker at 2B. At this point last Spring Training after the release of Kennedy, there was more of a use for Schumaker to try 2B than stay in a then cluttered OF picture. Right now there is more of a use for Schumaker to go back to the OF and let Lugo have a crack at 2B. Schu could be the starter or platoon at either position.

I don’t know about DeRossa. He’s a very likable player. But, I think the best that you can hope for out of him is about 275/25/80. And that’s fine however, I think you have to look at the difference in numbers that you can expect from a cheap in-house guy like Craig (maybe a 268/21/68 guy) but would probably save you $6-8 million / year. Is the difference in those production numbers really worth $8 million (or so) that could otherwise be used to boost the 3rd pitching spot? I don’t think so.

Brock is well-rested but with his age he might only hit .295 and steal 70 bases.

Try hard to sign DeRosa, due to his versatility and grit; sign Randy Winn to play LF against righties, and platoon him with Craig/Mather/Freese/DeRosa; sign Smoltz and Noah Lowry to incentive-laden deals, and sign Billy Wagner as the main closer, while keeping Franklin as the set-up guy and part-time closer; hope against all hope that a low-scoring, hard-playing team with good pitching and a feeble offense can win the division, and that, more importantly, the Cubs do not sign Holliday and DeRosa.

I love all the banter in these blogs…I like the idea of signing Lackey - that would be an unbelievable 1-2-3 punch in a short series - because we know what Carp and Wain can do in short series…oh wait…

I do like the Dunn idea - I know he strikes out a ton - but he does mash and stays healthy unlike a RF in Cardinal Red that is overhyped. We need a closer - Franklin is not that answer when it counts (Sept & Oct). I say let Wainwright go back to the closer’s role - look at how good the Red Sox & Yanks are every year with a dominant closer.

Just out of curiosity (I know this is dream world), but let’s offer our top 10 prospects for Hanley Ramirez - move Ryan to 2B and let Schu head back to the OF or the utility role…plus if we resign Holliday - have fun with that 2-3-4 of Hanley, AP and MH.

Also, any truth to the rumor that LaRussa is thinking about batting the pitcher leadoff because that will allow his pitchers 50-100 AB’s more a year - and that will obviously make that offense even more dangerous!?

Nothing against Holliday, but I just can’t get that dropped ball out of my mind.

Sign Miguel Tejada and find a place to play him…he has played 3B and SS, but I am sure he could play 2B or even LF. Behind Bay and Holliday he is the best offensive player available.

Freese and Craig are unproven, albeit I’d like to see them get an opportunity. The question with them both being in the lineup is could the Cards win with two rookies in their lineup? Maybe they could if they have the pitching to stabilize the team. That being said, I think the Cards should sign DeRosa and go after another #1 or #2 type starting pitcher like John Lackey as some posters have already suggested. Give Freese and Craig an opportunity if they have a good Spring Training and see where that takes you at the ALL STAR break. If one or both do not work out someone will have to be brought in. If the season flops PUSH HARD for Carl Crawford after the season. After all, the Pujols situation will be dictating a call for help to support him with a heavy bat IF things don’t work out with the rookies.

1) Sign Holliday, Bay, or Crawford. (of course only if you can) No Damon, Dye, Dunn…Only Abreu would be a last resort. He could be a good player off the bench or part time with a rookie.
2) Think about Lackey. 123 punch and like everyone has said, he is good to make a short series perfect.
3) Don’t rely on the farm so much. Mather and Freese are not MLB guys. Resign Derosa. Give Craig a fair chance due to respect of his last season.
4) Yes, keep money for Pujols. BUT! Remember he said he wants a winning team to play with. Do NOT rely on the farm to make him happy.
5) Next time, get rid of Tony and give Oquendo the torch.

That is all from Wisdom Bird.

Re: Michael Kent. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not anti-Freese at all. In fact, he could be the 3B of the future. I just suggested keeping De-Ro because of his versatility and that way you’d have some protection at the hot corner going into next season in case Freese struggles early on (kind of like how they eased Colby into becoming the everyday CF). But if Freese has a bust-out spring training and hits the ground running at the big league level (unlike last year when he struggled early on - granted, it may have been due to lingering injuries from that car accident), then De-Ro has the versatility to play elsewhere.

Predictions: Holliday to the Giants, who overpay in a grotesque Zito-like deal, Bay resigns with Boston, Vlad resigns with the Angels, Cards sign retread Nady. DeRosa bolts to Cubs. Cards attempt to save face by announcing Pujols extension.

Gosh - d’you think that dewitt and mozeliak are scouring this forum to getsome ideas about who should play LF?

Rick Hummel and Jeff Gordon are the only sesible writers in tis story.

I would rather sign DeRo and go that route than sign Holliday. Holliday is going to get overpaid and is average at OF and his bat is great when its hot but he’s too streaky for my taste. Take the money and sign DeRo and shore up the pitching. One bat behind Albert is not enough, what we really need is a couple of good contact hitters and base stealers to win games. Bring in some “Whitey Ball” and that will cure the LOB issue.

I would love to see Johnny Damon come aboard. A winner who can get big hits. He provides a perfect mentor for Rasmus, and is a likable dude, by all accounts. He’s not going to be the man to hit behind Albert, but if the club were to take a more holistic approach to the line-up, then filling it with tough outs and doubles hitters can be just as dangerous. Skip, Damon, Albert, Ludwick, Rasmus, Freese, Molina, Ryan.

Also, Abreu carried the Angels, single handedly for about two months this summer, so let’s not knock him too hard. He’s averaged 105 RBI and 25 SB the last four seasons. He plays a “lazy” out-field, but has solid wheels and a great arm. It would be no stretch to put him above Holliday in fielding. Nady is an interesting player, but a hazy injury history and inconsistent play are a red flag. Bay is the most complete outfielder on the market, and it’s hard to imagine the Sox letting him go.

Interesting and probable trade targets include: Jermaine Dye, Adam Dunn, Aaron Rowand, and Eric Byrnes

NO WORRY CARD FANS we will have LARU and Big MAC, A genius by his own admission,and a retired ball player that refused to admit his mistakes. What else do we need.

The Cards need to determine quickly if they can or can’t sign Holliday or Bay and then ink DeRosa quickly. If all that is not possible let’s look at a couple other options. We still have Allen Craig who may be a nice fit with Rasmus and Ludwick. I can’t help but think that those fellows will benefit tremendously from having Big Mac as their hitting coach. Or a name that still intrigues me is Jeff Francoeur, who at one time seemed like a can’t miss type player. Obviously if we don’t get the top 2 players available, we will all be disappointed. Just remember, we still have a ton fewer questions marks position wise than we did a year ago.

Do not overpay or Holliday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let him walk.

They need to make some free agent moves. Trading prospects for talent is more expensive in the long run it is kind of like the deficit where our country is borrowing against the future and will have to pay a great price down the road. In this market patience will be virtue but they need to sign some talent.