Why should not the owner of the property be able to provide rest room accommodations that they believe will best serve their guests and/orcustomers? The people attending events at Chaifetz Arena are there as paying customers of the Arena, not of the government.

As a male, I see no problem at all with Chaifetz Arena having provided additional accommodations for their women customers.

Just more proof that layers are evil.

Damn.,.. Lawyers … I meant Lawyers.. I was used to my iPhone.. and had to use a blasted Blackberry for a few days.. I’m still recovering.

A man walks into a bar, sits down and orders a beer. In a loud angry voice, he says, “All lawyers are a**holes!”. Another patron sitting at the end of the bar hears him and says, “Hey, buddy, I’m offended by that!” The man looks at him and says, “Why? You a lawyer?” The patron says, “No, I’m an a**hole.”

Potties is the last problem issue with Chaifetz Arena! Ever try to park near the place?

I can’t imagine that an architect, knowing that women typically spend more time in restrooms, wouldn’t design-in more a greater number of women’s toilets. It just makes sense, doesn’t it?

The “controversy” appears to be one that the ACLU would initiate, rather than the general public.

Rev. Biondi should consider placing a parking garage near the Chaifetz Arena equipped with toilets, male and female.

OK – I’ll give a serious answer.

Normally, architects mirror bathroom floorspace. This allows the plumbing to share a common wall and ensures that both men and women have equal bathroom space. The problem is that urinals take up less space than a stall, so the men’s room ends up with more ‘facilities’ than a women’s room. Women usually take longer in the bathroom than men, which when combined with less units, leads to long lines at the women’s room. Once women found out that they had less units than the men, they campaigned for - and got - potty parity. What this means is that women’s rooms will most likely have to be bigger, to accommodate the more spacious stalls (while the men’s room will continue to use urinals).

Do I mind that women will get bigger bathrooms than men? Nope. Even if the women’s room has more facilities than the men’s room, I still don’t care. The spirit of this law is to alleviate the long lines at the women’s room, so while giving the women more units than the men doesn’t follow the letter of potty parity, it follows the spirit. I have always believed it is more important to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter, so I say give the new SLU arena a pass – they are trying to do the right thing.

On a less serious note..

#5 Ryan, said:
“Rev. Biondi should consider placing a parking garage near the Chaifetz Arena equipped with toilets, male and female. “

Ryan, are there bushes, trees, or an alley near the arena? Then the men are taken care of.

Volcanic Eruptions, Earthquakes, Floods, Droughts
(Century IV, Quatrain 67)

A very bright, previously unknown comet will appear and coincide with the time of great geological troubles, with earthquakes and volcanoes erupting and disrupting weather systems. This will cause widespread famines, droughts, and social upheavals in unexpected places. Nations that are considered prosperous and powerful, particularly western nations, will be weakened. They will be torn with civil strife and rioting as people migrate to areas that have water and can support crop-growing. The social upheaval and weakening of political structures will help the Antichrist come to power.

The United States in particular will be subject to serious natural disasters, particularly earthquakes and flooding, and flatten the nation from end to end, causing enormous conflict, despair, and misery. The US will be bankrupted attempting to deal with its disasters. Three other great nations will send aid to help the citizens survive.

(Century VIII, Quatrain 29)

Earth changes will take place that will help the Antichrist’s drive for world conquest. In central Europe, southern Europe, and in the Middle East, around the eastern end of the Mediterranean, there will be severe floods. As a result of the disruption to local governments by the natural disasters, the Antichrist will move his troops in under the guise of helping the people restore civil order, but really use this as a device to take over countries, and to use the populations like slaves.

Serious economic problems will persist along with great social unrest, contributing to the ease with which the Antichrist can seize power. The frightened and hopeful populace will be vulnerable to his rhetoric. The Antichrist will use the disasters as opportunities to overthrow governments and sneak spies into a country. Martial law will be declared in many areas to stop rioting and looting. The Middle East, the source of his power, will not be as devastated as the rest of the world. He offers assistance to other countries trying to recover but he will eventually stab them in the back.

Extraterrestrial probe of the Watchers discovered by scientists
(Century IV, Quatrain 28)

During the time of troubles, when the sun is between the earth and Venus, i.e. from the point of view of Earth Venus is hidden by the sun, the Watchers (extraterrestrials) will be exposed through the powers of observation and communication.

Scientists involved with radiotelescopy and related disciplines will observe an anomaly, and as they focus on it they come to the realization that it is a strong indication of a real UFO. The readings are caused by an instrument sent by the Watchers to observe mankind.

Earth abuse causes agricultural devastation in U.S. and Europe
(Century II, Quatrain 95)

Man will upset the balance of the earth and cause great changes in the climate and seasons, causing much hardship and famine. Major agricultural lands producing a lot of grain and food for the world today will become frozen and will be unusable. The people who live on this land and grow the food will flee like rats leaving a sinking ship.

There will be dissension and fighting over the land. As a result of the panic, incompetent decisions are made by the people in power under enormous stress. Poor decisions will escalate into major disasters. The U.S. and the United Kingdom in particular will experience the dissension and destruction.

Antichrist’s rise to power in Middle East

(Century II, Quatrains 23 and 81)

The Antichrist will take over Iran by using a human decoy to trick the Iranian Ayatollah in power. This will involve the “yes men” and puppets of the Ayatollah’s court. The Antichrist will first drive away internal supporters of the Ayatollah by starting a civil war. Then he will put forth a man as a leader, a man for Iranians loyal to the Ayatollah to concentrate their hate on. The man will be assassinated while Iran is being taken over, and his opponents will think they have foiled the overthrow of power by assassinating him. But they will find out later he was merely a decoy and that they played into the plans of the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will initially obtain power in his own sphere, Asia, and the Middle East. As he grows out of this arena, and into Europe, the next step will be into the Mediterranean, his area of strength. Because of his Middle Eastern heritage he will have already united North Africans, who are sympathetic to his cultural background, with his Asian and Middle Eastern conglomerate.

Fiasco from communication breakdown between two superpowers

(Century II, Quatrains 35 and 48)

Through a mistake, a breakdown in communications between two powerful countries will occur. The situation is a lot more complex than will appear on the surface. The leader involved will feel great regret about what happened and will want to continue his career and help correct the situation, to help make up for the adverse affects.

But he will be hung, symbolically, by others wishing to take his position in the organization. He will be hung as far as politics and his career are concerned. It will almost be like committing suicide because in the end he will be a broken man. The entire event will be viewed as a fiasco from both sides. It will have very harmful and even cataclysmic consequences.

Antichrist profits from radar research in Europe
(Century I, Quatrain 6)

Research on a more sophisticated type of radar and sensing devices will give greater information to the operator, i.e. an airplane pilot. But the first experiments with the technology will fail in a disastrous accident, when the vibrations emitted by the device cause the chassis of the plane to become weakened and dangerous. The scientists involved with the research will have to temporarily abandon the research because of diplomatic breakdowns, the threat of war, etc.

This will take place before the Antichrist comes to full power. It will happen in Europe at the time the Antichrist is strengthening his base of power in the Middle East. The devices are currently under development but have not been tested yet. But this is another historical event that will permit the Antichrist to take over Europe.

War game simulation by Britain in Europe leads to disaster
(Century II, Quatrain 2)

In a war-game maneuver involving Great Britain and European troops a malfunctioning computer will cause the “real-world” situation to play out instead of the simulation. As a result of the error actual defenses will be activated and real bombs will be dropped on the areas of the game and cause a tragic international incident.

American Electoral College voting stalemate
(Century VII, Quatrain 41)

The presidents of the United States, a supposedly free country, have been abusing their power to an increasingly greater extent. During a time of social unrest even more so than the period of Vietnam and Watergate, the Electoral College will be evenly split over the election of the new president. The process will stalemate, with many people clamoring for whichever candidate they voted for, causing enormous tension in the country. Internationally it will be a sensitive situation.

Because of the split, and the extremely volatile and explosive social unrest, putting either candidate in office instead of the other could start a civil war or a revolution. After a long time of impassioned speeches invoking patriotism and the founding fathers, a compromise solution of holding another election will be taken, and a candidate will be installed without disaster.

There is no reason why women need to spend so much time in the restroom. That’s their problem. I don’t think they have a blatter any larger than men do. I would bet they don’t have the capacity that men do. The fact is that they can’t get to the stalls because there are too many standing in the way in front of the mirrors. Stand outside a womens restroom and watch. They never come out looking the same way they went in. Makeup, hair or something has changed. Men get the job done and get out. The law is a sexist statement. \

Why is the government getting involved with restroom problems when the economy is so bad?? People are struggling to get to work. That’s everyone except the lawyer and politicians.

I love the city’s response…”they asked us and maybe we didn’t tell them, but it’s their responsibility to know the state requirements, not ours. ”

Technically that’s correct. However, given that this is the second time this has happened on a major project in the city in less than three years, might it be wise to make a local ammendment to the adopted plumbing code to….I don’t know…*fix* the section of the municipal code that is appearantly in conflict with a state law so this doesn’t keep happening?…

Or is adding a footnote to an adopted plumbing code so onerous as to keep the city from attending to all the other great things they’re accomplishing lately?

In Europe, female “urninals” are furnished, which expedites the tolet-room rush. Maybe we should consider specifying more of these in our new buildings. I wonder if US women would want to use them? …or know how!

It kinda hard to get too worked up in a lather of this from the confines of my desk today. However, it is very irritating when I am at a public event and the lines for the women’s room is twice as long as the men’s. We pay the same admission price, why should we have to miss more of an event?

Despite #9 Tom’s ranting (has he taken a biology course), the lines are not because women are primping in the mirror. It is basic anatomy that says we have to get partially undressed to do the simplest of jobs that men can do standing up, next to twelve other men with a simple unzip.

Add to this that women are often the ones who have to care for the younger ones as they go, too. The lines are just inherent. In my perfect world, there are twice as many facilities for women as men.

I think we should ask the female Jesuit priests and nuns what they think. Oops. There aren’t any?
Talk about imbalance….

I don’t think Chaifetz is out of compliance with the state law, unless the wording of the law is that there should be no *more* than evens. A=A, but 6 contains 5. Exactly how this is being calculated isn’t discussed in the article, esp since some urinals are designed for multiple users– which is not generally possible in the case of stalls. Face it folks. Women of child-bearing age are obligated to spend more time in the restroom whether they want to or not. The clothes women wear (both slacks and dresses) require more undoing. Although Chaifetz is an arena, I bet it will be used for events except for sports and Jesuit convocations. [I was on an engineering bus trip where the ratio was about 5 guys to 1 woman. We had the shorter line. Yippee!]

Personally, I’m all for unisex restrooms, where the urinals are separated from general view by a partition (not even necessarily a full door, but an ‘around the corner’ sort of thing.) Then everyone would be treated on a first come, first served basis.

I don’t think women should be allowed at sporting events. They seldom pay attention to what’s going on, and half the time barely know what two teams are playing each other. Women need smaller restrooms so they can’t travel in packs and waste so much time clucking like hens while not paying attention to which stall has just become available.

JUST KIDDING! But seriously, that describes my wife.

This subject has to be the dumbest thing in the world for politicians to be wasting time over. IF there is a problem, it can be discovered by simply observing the restroom lines for a few events. No rediculous lines for men or women? Then everyone should be able to use common sense and forget about it. But that won’t happen, because there are too many idiots working in too many levels of our government that need stupid things like this to inspect and argue about so that they can collect more fines and fees and prove they are needed.

Kurt, I don’t think this is a bad topic for you to bring up, because it really points out to me the time and money that our state and local governments waste on bureaucracy. The city NEEDS things like this to spend time on to justify embezzling 1 percent of the money that I work for.

Suzy, I hate to sound like I’m ranting. I honestly understand why it take women longer in the restroom. I think this whole this is quite funny that it would even be an issue with all the real problems that face legislators today. My wife thinks men get out of the restroom faster because they don’t wash their hands. All men are pigs. They don’t even finish the job before they leave. They come out with big wet circles on their pants. And they pick their nose while they go to the bathroom.

You can tell who rules my house.

I have always thought what takes myself and other woman so long in the bathroom is that (unlike men) we stop to wash our hands afterwords. And I know some woman, me included, will try to wash them before.

Maybe they need more sinks, not more toilets.

Tom and Karen,
You may have a point. Perhaps there should be a device that sounds an alarm if one tries to go through the door without properly washing.

Tom and b,
Perhaps there are things the legislature could best serve their time. And you are right that one could easily observe this issue at the next Cardinals’ game. If that is the case, why were public buildings (especially sporting arenas), being built without taking this into consideration? My ticket does not cost less because I am a woman (actually probably more when you consider pay disparaties), why were my needs not being considered by architects, team owners, and stadium authorities? Since they were not, some in the legislature decided they would have to legislate what was right.

#9. Maybe it’s because we take the time to wash our hands….with soap. Or we have the kids with us, which also takes extra time.

Oops, sorry #9, I see you’ve already been handsmacked. I like the idea of extra sinks and always thought that would be more beneficial than extra potties.

Since I do work for an Architect and do code review for various project, even I was surprised by the article that there is a state law for “potty parity”. Never is all of the years of working with different city building departments has there ever been a mention of this state law. I am not even sure where I would start looking to see if a law of this type is in effect. If most states would adpot a state building code it would make it much easier to desing buildings for everyone.

Since it is a state law who enforces this law?

Well, it bugs me that those charged with getting it right CAN’T. How hard IS it to count potties and install them? Or even to just make plans to do so. If they can’t figure out how to help female customers enjoy an event without laws, I guess we need the laws. We have anti-discrimination and affirmative action laws because folks couldn’t do right without them. They don’t follow the laws we have. Folks only complain about them when they affect their unnatural advantages. They don’t complain as much about the conditions that make them necessary.
Guys go to the bathroom anywhere, often before they enter the venue. Sometimes simply against a wall after they are inside. They don’t wash their hands as often (not my opinion, they did studies). So they are in and out unless they find a cute cubicle buddy to conduct wide stances with. Look ladies…quit staying in the johns fixing your makeup, etc. You don’t look much better when you’ve stayed in there 20 minutes adjusting what god didn’t give you. Be considerate and move on out so the next woman can relieve herself.
Now I am wondering what happened in politics today that has us talking about the perfect red herring issue??? LMAO

Tom, you KNOW those wet circles aren’t from strict bathroom issues. Men are kinkier in the restrooms than anyone knows. Where the closeted meet!

I wonder if anyone has any real statistics that would indicate a men to women ratio at sporting events? Aside from baseball, I would think that men would out number the women at most events. Don’t take that as a hit to women, that is not the what I mean. I wait in line most of the time at Cardinal and Rams games. Especially if you have to go during any intermissions.

Potty parity.

Great.

Don’t we have enough trivial things to worry about?

I’m not even sure how to respond, but I don’t think that we need a law like this. The architects get paid a million bucks to design an arena…if they can’t calculate sufficient bathroom space into their design, then fire them and get a different firm to design it.

#22 Mike, I won’t go there. I’m one that hates to here music in restrooms in fear that I might tap my feet. Don’t need that problem.

Years ago, when I was working for a non-profit, one of my responsibilites was to arrange for workshops. I received copies of the Hotel and Convention magazines.

In one issue there was a time motion study that stated men spend 90 seconds in the public restroom on the average, while women spend 180 seconds (3 minutes) per restroom trip.

Their recommendation was that in planning a large meeting to extend the breaks to at least 20 - 25 minutes so that women stood a chance of getting back in time. Alternatively, to ask when booking meetings what the ratio of women’s facilities was to men’s.

Of course all bets are off at any convention facility booking a predominantly female group.

Much a doo-doo about nothing. Can the legislators!

#9 Tom…..no wonder you feel you get in and out of the men’s room faster than women. It seems women have bladders, and apparently, you have a blatter (whatever that is).

Good luck!

Cathy, It’s ashame I was a school teacher too. I’m don’t know how I spell my name right sometimes. I looked at that for a long time too. By the way women get out of the men’s room faster because they are in the wrong room. (no wonder you feel you get in and out of the men’s room faster than women)

The only parity needed is directly proportional to the average number of folks that attend the events. If 3 million people visit Cardinal games and 70 percent are women, then women should have 70 percent of the toilets in th house. If the number of men attending is higher, then they should receive more stalls. Case closed.

Outside of needing to make sure that a facility has a minimum number of toilets for either sex, I think this is ridiculous and a waste of taxes and time. Aren’t there more important issues that could be focused on? I just don’t think the public is concerned about a disparity of toilets. Lot’s re-evaluate our priorities and focus on things that are important.

I think it is a greater concern that the architects keep getting this highly publicized code wrong. If they make a mistake on something like this, how many other, more serious, code requirements are they unaware of or forgetting?

Although I’m a person who really really hates government regulation I’m a bit conflicted here as I don’t want to seem a hypocrite. See I’ve often protested strongly against government regulation to the point of signing petitions but this one hits a little closer to home. As much as I hate stupid laws like this I also REALLY hate standing in line for the ladies room. Honestly guys you have no idea how annoying it is to have to stand in line everywhere, often for 10, 20 or even 30, yes 30 minutes, simply to answer nature’s call while the men’s room sits empty next door. Now I don’t deny there are occasionally lines for men but the lines for women are ALWAYS longer. I can’t recall a SINGLE time where, even if there was a men’s line, that the women’s line was not much much longer. If there is even a short line for the men’s room there is GUARANTEED to be an enormous one for the ladies room. As a woman who grew up in an all male family I can say I have alot of experience with this and it’s VERY frustrating.

I’m not typically one to cry sexism at every turn but let’s face facts here, women take longer to go for reasons beyond our control. I’ve also heard studies have shown women have to go twice as often as well, which based on personal experience(All male family)sounds true. Then you need to factor in periods, pregnancy and other female specific needs.On top of all this at the same time we are shortchanged by being given FEWER toilets. Does that not seem a bit unfair, sexist and illogical as well? I could almost picture the typical male archeitect:Hmmm, let’s see studies indicate women take about twice as long to use the bathroom as men, I have the perfect solution let’s give women HALF as many places as we give the men! C’mon now guys how is that in any way fair?! I’m a bit annoyed to see that nearly every place this topic comes up the men are almost universally opposed to it and show very little sympathy towards our plight. It’s also a bit half hearted sympathy when some guy writes “I understand the problem but can’t you hurry up or I don’t think we should make a law.” Now in most cases like I said I’d agree it’s best not to pass a law for every little thing but what other option is there in this case? I’ve heard some say leave it up to the business, supply and demand, to provide enough toilets to accomodate women and if they don’t women can just go to a different stadium, theater, restaurant etc. There’s one problem with this though, this is the same everywhere! Some places will be more generous than others when it comes to adequate female toilets but in the main there is little business incentive to provide anymore than the minimum allowed, though for guys the minimum is often more than enough. To tell us just go somewhere else doesn’t work as EVERY place tends to have the same problem, there is no better bathroom option so no one loses business over this issue and thus no one ever does anything about it. Business owners know that their competitors don’t provide better facilities so the only option would be to boycott everyplace which would mean missing out on everything, not an option. As a result women are forced to hold it or wait, can’t just whip it out and go anywhere like guys do :P.

Ok I’ll admit I’m ranting a bit here but this is a problem no one is addressing. Yes there are bigger problems in the world I’d rather see solved but it does kind of bug me that this one hasn’t been solved because the solution is pretty simple but no one will impliment it purely out of consideration. Most archeixtects are men and since they have the final say there’s not much hope for women getting more toilets soon if ever unless a law forces them too. Many women find this issue annoying yet most just seem to accept waiting as natural so just grin and bear it, myself included BTW, although I don’t see it as “natural”. Think of it this way guys, if the situation was reversed and you had to wait a half hour in line to use the men’s room while the women had no line at all due to having more places to pee wouldn’t you think that was unfair. This rarely happens but what if this was true for every place you went, imagine how frustrating that would be. Then imagine complaining to your wives, girlfriends and sisters about it and being told “well just hurry up or stop primping in there” when you know that is not the case. Your complaints of course then fall on deaf ears because all the architects are female and businesses feel no need to accomodate you. Lastly imagine you then hear there is a law to finally correct the problem but all the women on the boards(and all the lawmakers) go on about how this is a stupid law and unimportant issue. Trust me if you were the ones waiting you’d be every bit as annoyed as we are. When you gotta go nothing is more important than getting to the toilet as quick as possible. The scenario I just described above is exactly what women experience. However as this is a man’s world so if men had to wait I guarantee the problem would be solved immediately. I’m a realist though, as this is a women’s issue with any luck maybe the problem will be solved in a generation or two, maybe a century, optimistically speaking. I guess til then I’ll be waiting(with my legs crossed :P).*

That’s basically the end of my, admittedly long, rant. I’m not an angry feminist type generally, really I’m not, I just have a small bladder! So I’ll set aside my hatred of regulation on this one and support potty parity laws. I’m not sure just how far this law should go though. At minimum women should get AT LEAST as many toilets as total toilets and urinals in the men’s room. Really as it exists now it cannot be said to be separate but equal even. I’ve been to places where if you counted the number of urinals and toilets men had 3-4 times as many places to go as women do. The worst place I’ve seen is an amusement park that had a measy 2 women’s stalls compared with 4 stalls, 12 urinals for men, that’s a ratio of 8 to 1! Now that is the most blatant example of male privilege I’ve ever seen, NO ONE better argue that was fair! Ok that is an extreme example but you see my point. I’d say the 2 to 1 ratio for women to men is extremely reasonable all things considered, though in one rare instance I saw a ladies line where women had a 6 to 1 ratio in their favor and still had a long line while the men didn’t! I’m willing to accept that women will probably never be able to pee fully as quick as men practically speaking and am not suggesting we get 6 times as many toilets, I’m reasonable. I can tolerate and accept that to some degree we’ll probably still have some wait at most crowded places, but hopefully not 20-30 minutes. At the very least give us an equal amount of toilets, at this point I’d be happy with just that, that’s all we’re asking, please ;). Ok I’m finished now. Enjoy your wait free bathrooms guys, you don’t realize just how lucky you have it!

*Ok I’ll admit I’m a bit of a hypocrite here, if the situation were reversed or I was a guy I’d probably be unsympathetically decrying the law with you the rest of you guys! But I’m not a guy and don’t like being on the receiving end so :P. I’ll admit offline I have actually spoken AGAINST this law. When first told about it by some male friends of mine who share my comtempt for government waste(no pun intended!)I didn’t want to seem like some whiny princess type so I agreed with them this law was stupid, vehemently. After they goaded me into it I even wrote a short article, really more of a blurb or comment, for the school paper in which I called Potty Parity laws “Affirmative action for impatient females” and added “How is giving someone double of something making them equal”. I have to admit I submitted that tongue and cheek. Later when I heard potty parity laws passed in this state I acted annoyed but secretly relieved in more ways than one! To save my reputation though I dare not complain about those long lines ever, at least not publically! So I grin and bear it as I said. Does that make me a hypocrite?

OMG is right. Armand told me he saw you on this site and I just had to check it out myself! Who’ve thought Miss “Potty Parity is the stupidest law ever” would show up here. Well well well, this sure is something. Don’t worry though I’ll keep your secret….well ok I won’t lol. Your never gonna hear the end of this. I’m showing all the guys this page! But to answer your question yeah you are pretty much a hypocrite but I’ll forgive you “princess” he he. It’s not a crime to admit you feel you need a little affirmative potty action lol. This is rich, seriously Jill, you made my month with this one :). So in order to justify this to yourself you wrote multiple paragraghs which, C’mon now you know are basically bunk lol. Let me just go over a few points you brought up.

“I’m not typically one to cry sexism at every turn but let’s face facts here, women take longer to go for reasons beyond our control. I’ve also heard studies have shown women have to go twice as often as well, which based on personal experience(All male family)sounds true. Then you need to factor in periods, pregnancy and other female specific needs.”

Ok firstly you say factors beyond your control. How long does it really take to pull up and down your pants and sit, 5 seconds if that long. Only a small percentage of women need the restroom for anything other than pee. Just because women go more also doesn’t mean that’s beyond their control. Women can wear simpler clothes, hurry up, not chit chat etc. Besides this still doesn’t answer the question if you take longer to pee how is that men’s fault. Somehow we manage to get out much quicker and not just cause we pee standing. Just because you cannot hurry up does’t entitle you to more. Let’s say we gave you twice as many toilets and you took longer would you then be entitled to 4 times as many? Absurd. Justb shallow your pride and admit you are impatient and want the nannystate to make it easier for you.

“Now in most cases like I said I’d agree it’s best not to pass a law for every little thing but what other option is there in this case? I’ve heard some say leave it up to the business, supply and demand, to provide enough toilets to accomodate women and if they don’t women can just go to a different stadium, theater, restaurant etc. There’s one problem with this though, this is the same everywhere! Some places will be more generous than others when it comes to adequate female toilets but in the main there is little business incentive to provide anymore than the minimum allowed, though for guys the minimum is often more than enough. To tell us just go somewhere else doesn’t work as EVERY place tends to have the same problem, there is no better bathroom option so no one loses business over this issue and thus no one ever does anything about it. Business owners know that their competitors don’t provide better facilities so the only option would be to boycott everyplace which would mean missing out on everything, not an option. As a result women are forced to hold it or wait, can’t just whip it out and go anywhere like guys do :P.”

It’s called the market. If the business won’t supply enough toilets talk to them about it, don’t go crying to the government over it. Way overdramatizing here Jill. And you know your right guys can make do with the minimum, why can’t women then? If women really are equal to men shouldn’t they be a little more efficient. And just because it’s possible to whip it out to pee doesn’t mean it’s not illegal! Public urination is a felony. I can picture someone using this in a court of law “Your honor it is deeply unfair that men can expose themselves to pee in public illegally easier than women!” There are bathrooms for a reason, not all men are animals, only half of us are ;).

“Ok I’ll admit I’m ranting a bit here but this is a problem no one is addressing. Yes there are bigger problems in the world I’d rather see solved but it does kind of bug me that this one hasn’t been solved because the solution is pretty simple but no one will impliment it purely out of consideration. Most archeixtects are men and since they have the final say there’s not much hope for women getting more toilets soon if ever unless a law forces them too. Many women find this issue annoying yet most just seem to accept waiting as natural so just grin and bear it, myself included BTW, although I don’t see it as “natural”.”

Exactly, there are bigger problems than your lack of bladder control! This is actually typical feminist thinking. It’s inconsioderate not to give me more cause I’m a woman. If this is such a problem why don’t more women become archeitects, are they incapable? There are female archeitects you know and I haven’t seen any of them planning restroom space more efficiently then men so don’t blame this on sexism. Also why should the government be expected to pass a law over this. Your almost saying “look women have a major issue with restroom lines why hasn’t someone SOLVED IT FOR US YET!”. Why don’t all you female business entrepueneurs decide to solve the problem yourself or would that put a dent in your profit margin?

“I’m not sure just how far this law should go though. At minimum women should get AT LEAST as many toilets as total toilets and urinals in the men’s room. Really as it exists now it cannot be said to be separate but equal even. I’ve been to places where if you counted the number of urinals and toilets men had 3-4 times as many places to go as women do.”

See here is the problem with this law. The potty parity crowd’s issue again seems to be “it’s unfair men are better able to use the restroom inefficiently please help us.” Of course the solution would then be just to take away urinals so we can all wait equally. Does men having no urinals really help women or do they just have some resentment there? Besides which female urinals could solve the problem but women never wanted to use them. If women are unwilling to sacrifice some privacy as men do why should they have right to complain? You want the advantage without giving up anything, that is not equal. Most places do have an equal number of toilets. Urinals just take up less space than stalls. Is it really fair to spend double on women’s stalls than cheaply install urinals. It’s really just not practical. Can’t women just live with a little wait, is it really the end of the world? I say get over it, urinals give us a bit of advantage it can’t be helped. Men can’t get pregnant but we aren’t complaining, it’s just nature.

“The worst place I’ve seen is an amusement park that had a measy 2 women’s stalls compared with 4 stalls, 12 urinals for men, that’s a ratio of 8 to 1! Now that is the most blatant example of male privilege I’ve ever seen, NO ONE better argue that was fair! Ok that is an extreme example but you see my point.”

I remember that place, totally fair! Sorry I couldn’t resist. Yeah that was unfair but that was rare you admit yourself.

“I’d say the 2 to 1 ratio for women to men is extremely reasonable all things considered, though in one rare instance I saw a ladies line where women had a 6 to 1 ratio in their favor and still had a long line while the men didn’t! I’m willing to accept that women will probably never be able to pee fully as quick as men practically speaking and am not suggesting we get 6 times as many toilets, I’m reasonable. I can tolerate and accept that to some degree we’ll probably still have some wait at most crowded places, but hopefully not 20-30 minutes. At the very least give us an equal amount of toilets, at this point I’d be happy with just that, that’s all we’re asking, please ;). Ok I’m finished now.”

Actually this pretty much proves my point doesn’t it? You get 6 TIMES as many toilets and still take much much longer, that’s outrageous! If that is not enough it shows that it can’t be helped. So we give you 2, 3 or even 6 times as many toilets and you STILL can’t pee any quicker. And why do you get couches when men don’t? Why don’t we build 2 toilets for every woman on the planet will that be enough?! Ya know what, case closed! Seriously this proves my argument. I can’t see what rebuttal you can offer to this. ::Sits back smugly and waits::

“Enjoy your wait free bathrooms guys, you don’t realize just how lucky you have it!”

Actually we do, it is pretty great being a guy isn’t it? Hurray for male privilege! Sorry Jill. But hey if you really have that much trouble holding maybe I’ll let you use the men’s room tommorrow when we go to the city ha ha lol. Oh Jill I just want to say thanks again, really, you truely truely made my month with this one :D. Next time don’t forget to clear your web history before letting us use your computer ;).

Ok took a few days to get to respond to this but believe me I heard plenty about it lol. Ok I’m a bit embarassed here but lemme try and defend my position here!

“Well well well, this sure is something. Don’t worry though I’ll keep your secret….well ok I won’t lol. Your never gonna hear the end of this. I’m showing all the guys this page! But to answer your question yeah you are pretty much a hypocrite but I’ll forgive you “princess” he he. It’s not a crime to admit you feel you need a little affirmative potty action lol. This is rich, seriously Jill, you made my month with this one :).”
Well I’m glad you enjoyed it so much, though my new nickname on campus “potty parity princess” isn’t quite so enjoyable, though I have a good sense of humour about this and the anti-potty parity website your starting dedicated to me :P. Still can’t help but blush at all the snickers I get whenever I go to the ladies room though lol.

“Ok firstly you say factors beyond your control. How long does it really take to pull up and down your pants and sit, 5 seconds if that long. Only a small percentage of women need the restroom for anything other than pee. Just because women go more also doesn’t mean that’s beyond their control. Women can wear simpler clothes, hurry up, not chit chat etc. Besides this still doesn’t answer the question if you take longer to pee how is that men’s fault. Somehow we manage to get out much quicker and not just cause we pee standing. Just because you cannot hurry up does’t entitle you to more. Let’s say we gave you twice as many toilets and you took longer would you then be entitled to 4 times as many? Absurd. Just shallow your pride and admit you are impatient and want the nannystate to make it easier for you.”

Yeah I do get a bit impatient. When your bladder is bursting you would not be happy to have to wait 15-20 minutes to get into a stall and pee! Bathrooms should be planned based on need. If it takes women longer to go it’s necessary to provide more toilets. Just like you wouldn’t expect hundreds of people to all share the same car or phone how is it then logical to expect hundreds of women to share a half dozen stalls! If hundreds of people needed to all share one thing they’d rarely get to use it. But the bathroom is something everyone needs frequently and when you need it you can only wait so long for it. For men this is not a problem, there’s enough so that no one has to wait ever, or rarely anyway. When you need to pee you just pee. For women if you have to pee your expected to wait because we all have to share a limited amount. It’s not entitlement to give people an adequate amount of something when another group is just given it as a privelege based on their sex. It IS discriminatory to decide to give men more than they need while women suffer for lack of it. And it takes longer than you think to get into a stall, get yourself situated, disrobe, wipe, redress and get out all while the restroom is so packed it’s hard to open the door. Even more difficult if your bladder is full, you have a baby kicking your bladder and dozens of women outside listening. For men peeing is simple, for women it’s an ordeal, a jungle even! Be lucky you have a Y chromosome, saves you alot of inconvenience, ALOT!

“It’s called the market. If the business won’t supply enough toilets talk to them about it, don’t go crying to the government over it. Way overdramatizing here Jill. And you know your right guys can make do with the minimum, why can’t women then? If women really are equal to men shouldn’t they be a little more efficient. And just because it’s possible to whip it out to pee doesn’t mean it’s not illegal! Public urination is a felony. I can picture someone using this in a court of law “Your honor it is deeply unfair that men can expose themselves to pee in public illegally easier than women!” There are bathrooms for a reason, not all men are animals, only half of us are ;).”

Alright it is illegal yes, though really seems stupid to criminalize peeing. Ok hard to argue here but it’s still unfair guys can get away with it while women usually can’t. Yes women are equal to men but we don’t have anything to AIM with. Here I’ll concede that nature has given males the advantage in peeing efficiency, bathroom design should take that into account.

“Exactly, there are bigger problems than your lack of bladder control! This is actually typical feminist thinking. It’s inconsiderate not to give me more cause I’m a woman. If this is such a problem why don’t more women become archeitects, are they incapable? There are female archeitects you know and I haven’t seen any of them planning restroom space more efficiently then men so don’t blame this on sexism. Also why should the government be expected to pass a law over this. Your almost saying “look women have a major issue with restroom lines why hasn’t someone SOLVED IT FOR US YET!”. Why don’t all you female business entrepueneurs decide to solve the problem yourself or would that put a dent in your profit margin?”

Women sadly only make up a small portion of business and archeitexture which is an issue in itself. Right now women haven’t attained equality there either so it’s not enough to effect change on the bathroom level. Ok maybe that wasn’t phrased well lol. I will admit maybe we could be doing more but it is inconsiderate for reasons I already mentioned. Letting us use the men’s room occasionally doesn’t make up for it either as our ability to get into the men’s room for relief is still at your whim. Though, um, thanks for being so kind this weekend, I really owe you one for that! But that doesn’t change my opinion on this issue!

“See here is the problem with this law. The potty parity crowd’s issue again seems to be “it’s unfair men are better able to use the restroom inefficiently please help us.” Of course the solution would then be just to take away urinals so we can all wait equally. Does men having no urinals really help women or do they just have some resentment there? Besides which female urinals could solve the problem but women never wanted to use them. If women are unwilling to sacrifice some privacy as men do why should they have right to complain? You want the advantage without giving up anything, that is not equal. Most places do have an equal number of toilets. Urinals just take up less space than stalls. Is it really fair to spend double on women’s stalls than cheaply install urinals. It’s really just not practical. Can’t women just live with a little wait, is it really the end of the world? I say get over it, urinals give us a bit of advantage it can’t be helped. Men can’t get pregnant but we aren’t complaining, it’s just nature.”

I’m a little resentful yeah :P. Female urinals are not efficient as most women do not know how to pee standing up and not all can. Since female urinals would still require partial disrobing yes we’d still need stalls and privacy. I do think men deserve privacy too though so I’m not being elitist feminist here ;). But if female urinals aren’t going to be used extensively, require stalls etc. but can only be used for peeing and still take up space why not just have stalls in that case. I say get rid of urinals altogether, we need stalls! It’s not gonna bankrupt a place to have a few extra potties. Also I don’t consider 15-20 minutes a little wait, that’s pretty long! Reminds me of a phrase I heard “How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door you are standing!” As I’ve said if you were desperate to pee you wouldn’t be comfortable waiting in line with your legs crosssed while the opposite sex’s bathroom is empty enough they may as well put in a revolving door! And last, pregnancy, please! Are you complaining about not having morning sickness, cravings, massive weight gain and needing to pee every 5 minutes? Of course your not or you’d be as annoyed over this issue as we are!

“I remember that place, totally fair! Sorry I couldn’t resist. Yeah that was unfair but that was rare you admit yourself.”

Actually it’s not as rare as you think either. Plus even without being that extreme at most places it’s still pretty bad and annoying.

”Actually this pretty much proves my point doesn’t it? You get 6 TIMES as many toilets and still take much much longer, that’s outrageous! If that is not enough it shows that it can’t be helped. So we give you 2, 3 or even 6 times as many toilets and you STILL can’t pee any quicker. And why do you get couches when men don’t? Why don’t we build 2 toilets for every woman on the planet will that be enough?! Ya know what, case closed! Seriously this proves my argument. I can’t see what rebuttal you can offer to this. ::Sits back smugly and waits:: :)”

This has to be taken in context. There were only 6 toilets for all the women, the men’s room had only one toilet. Many ladies rooms do not even have that many toilets while men have perhaps double or triple that counting urinals. Plus as that case showed they can hold longter and go much quicker. Most women’s room don’t have couches, least not the ones I’ve been too, some do though. We need em too! Here I’ll admit it’s somewhat our fault but I’m not asking for 6 times as many toilets, I’m reasonable. Like I said I’ll accept women having maybe some wait compared to men but something HAS to be done to correct the worst of the problem, at least decrease it to a tolerable level. I can wait 2 minutes to pee, 20 minutes is painful.

“Actually we do, it is pretty great being a guy isn’t it? Hurray for male privilege! Sorry Jill. But hey if you really have that much trouble holding maybe I’ll let you use the men’s room tommorrow when we go to the city ha ha lol. Oh Jill I just want to say thanks again, really, you truely truely made my month with this one :D. Next time don’t forget to clear your web history before letting us use your computer ;).”

Sexist pig :P. But you are a good friend anyway. Funny story. The other day we were at the city and indeed the restrooms were crowded. This wasn’t the first time this has happened as Arthur alluded but this time was much worse than I’ve come to expect. After a long train ride I had to pee, and I mean BAD! When we got off the train and into the station the line at the ladies room was enormous, I could almost cry, nearly fainted seeing it! I was resolute though. I was determined not to let it phase me but as I said I was dying to pee! Of course Arthur and the gang were having a fun time with this after reading my post the other day as I sat there with my legs crossed. I waited 15 minutes before I just couldn’t take it. Arthur was a gentlemen and helped me sneek into the men’s room but I was soooo embarassed. I’ll never live it down. But there were still 53 women in line in front of me! By the time I left the desolate wasteland of the men’s room the woman in front of me in line hadn’t moved an inch! I felt this proved my point, the guys felt otherwise :P. But thanks for letting me go, I’d never have made it if I waited. So your not total jerks but your still sexist pigs :P.