Outside of needing to make sure that a facility has a minimum number of toilets for either sex, I think this is ridiculous and a waste of taxes and time. Aren’t there more important issues that could be focused on? I just don’t think the public is concerned about a disparity of toilets. Lot’s re-evaluate our priorities and focus on things that are important.

I think it is a greater concern that the architects keep getting this highly publicized code wrong. If they make a mistake on something like this, how many other, more serious, code requirements are they unaware of or forgetting?

Although I’m a person who really really hates government regulation I’m a bit conflicted here as I don’t want to seem a hypocrite. See I’ve often protested strongly against government regulation to the point of signing petitions but this one hits a little closer to home. As much as I hate stupid laws like this I also REALLY hate standing in line for the ladies room. Honestly guys you have no idea how annoying it is to have to stand in line everywhere, often for 10, 20 or even 30, yes 30 minutes, simply to answer nature’s call while the men’s room sits empty next door. Now I don’t deny there are occasionally lines for men but the lines for women are ALWAYS longer. I can’t recall a SINGLE time where, even if there was a men’s line, that the women’s line was not much much longer. If there is even a short line for the men’s room there is GUARANTEED to be an enormous one for the ladies room. As a woman who grew up in an all male family I can say I have alot of experience with this and it’s VERY frustrating.

I’m not typically one to cry sexism at every turn but let’s face facts here, women take longer to go for reasons beyond our control. I’ve also heard studies have shown women have to go twice as often as well, which based on personal experience(All male family)sounds true. Then you need to factor in periods, pregnancy and other female specific needs.On top of all this at the same time we are shortchanged by being given FEWER toilets. Does that not seem a bit unfair, sexist and illogical as well? I could almost picture the typical male archeitect:Hmmm, let’s see studies indicate women take about twice as long to use the bathroom as men, I have the perfect solution let’s give women HALF as many places as we give the men! C’mon now guys how is that in any way fair?! I’m a bit annoyed to see that nearly every place this topic comes up the men are almost universally opposed to it and show very little sympathy towards our plight. It’s also a bit half hearted sympathy when some guy writes “I understand the problem but can’t you hurry up or I don’t think we should make a law.” Now in most cases like I said I’d agree it’s best not to pass a law for every little thing but what other option is there in this case? I’ve heard some say leave it up to the business, supply and demand, to provide enough toilets to accomodate women and if they don’t women can just go to a different stadium, theater, restaurant etc. There’s one problem with this though, this is the same everywhere! Some places will be more generous than others when it comes to adequate female toilets but in the main there is little business incentive to provide anymore than the minimum allowed, though for guys the minimum is often more than enough. To tell us just go somewhere else doesn’t work as EVERY place tends to have the same problem, there is no better bathroom option so no one loses business over this issue and thus no one ever does anything about it. Business owners know that their competitors don’t provide better facilities so the only option would be to boycott everyplace which would mean missing out on everything, not an option. As a result women are forced to hold it or wait, can’t just whip it out and go anywhere like guys do :P.

Ok I’ll admit I’m ranting a bit here but this is a problem no one is addressing. Yes there are bigger problems in the world I’d rather see solved but it does kind of bug me that this one hasn’t been solved because the solution is pretty simple but no one will impliment it purely out of consideration. Most archeixtects are men and since they have the final say there’s not much hope for women getting more toilets soon if ever unless a law forces them too. Many women find this issue annoying yet most just seem to accept waiting as natural so just grin and bear it, myself included BTW, although I don’t see it as “natural”. Think of it this way guys, if the situation was reversed and you had to wait a half hour in line to use the men’s room while the women had no line at all due to having more places to pee wouldn’t you think that was unfair. This rarely happens but what if this was true for every place you went, imagine how frustrating that would be. Then imagine complaining to your wives, girlfriends and sisters about it and being told “well just hurry up or stop primping in there” when you know that is not the case. Your complaints of course then fall on deaf ears because all the architects are female and businesses feel no need to accomodate you. Lastly imagine you then hear there is a law to finally correct the problem but all the women on the boards(and all the lawmakers) go on about how this is a stupid law and unimportant issue. Trust me if you were the ones waiting you’d be every bit as annoyed as we are. When you gotta go nothing is more important than getting to the toilet as quick as possible. The scenario I just described above is exactly what women experience. However as this is a man’s world so if men had to wait I guarantee the problem would be solved immediately. I’m a realist though, as this is a women’s issue with any luck maybe the problem will be solved in a generation or two, maybe a century, optimistically speaking. I guess til then I’ll be waiting(with my legs crossed :P).*

That’s basically the end of my, admittedly long, rant. I’m not an angry feminist type generally, really I’m not, I just have a small bladder! So I’ll set aside my hatred of regulation on this one and support potty parity laws. I’m not sure just how far this law should go though. At minimum women should get AT LEAST as many toilets as total toilets and urinals in the men’s room. Really as it exists now it cannot be said to be separate but equal even. I’ve been to places where if you counted the number of urinals and toilets men had 3-4 times as many places to go as women do. The worst place I’ve seen is an amusement park that had a measy 2 women’s stalls compared with 4 stalls, 12 urinals for men, that’s a ratio of 8 to 1! Now that is the most blatant example of male privilege I’ve ever seen, NO ONE better argue that was fair! Ok that is an extreme example but you see my point. I’d say the 2 to 1 ratio for women to men is extremely reasonable all things considered, though in one rare instance I saw a ladies line where women had a 6 to 1 ratio in their favor and still had a long line while the men didn’t! I’m willing to accept that women will probably never be able to pee fully as quick as men practically speaking and am not suggesting we get 6 times as many toilets, I’m reasonable. I can tolerate and accept that to some degree we’ll probably still have some wait at most crowded places, but hopefully not 20-30 minutes. At the very least give us an equal amount of toilets, at this point I’d be happy with just that, that’s all we’re asking, please ;). Ok I’m finished now. Enjoy your wait free bathrooms guys, you don’t realize just how lucky you have it!

*Ok I’ll admit I’m a bit of a hypocrite here, if the situation were reversed or I was a guy I’d probably be unsympathetically decrying the law with you the rest of you guys! But I’m not a guy and don’t like being on the receiving end so :P. I’ll admit offline I have actually spoken AGAINST this law. When first told about it by some male friends of mine who share my comtempt for government waste(no pun intended!)I didn’t want to seem like some whiny princess type so I agreed with them this law was stupid, vehemently. After they goaded me into it I even wrote a short article, really more of a blurb or comment, for the school paper in which I called Potty Parity laws “Affirmative action for impatient females” and added “How is giving someone double of something making them equal”. I have to admit I submitted that tongue and cheek. Later when I heard potty parity laws passed in this state I acted annoyed but secretly relieved in more ways than one! To save my reputation though I dare not complain about those long lines ever, at least not publically! So I grin and bear it as I said. Does that make me a hypocrite?

OMG is right. Armand told me he saw you on this site and I just had to check it out myself! Who’ve thought Miss “Potty Parity is the stupidest law ever” would show up here. Well well well, this sure is something. Don’t worry though I’ll keep your secret….well ok I won’t lol. Your never gonna hear the end of this. I’m showing all the guys this page! But to answer your question yeah you are pretty much a hypocrite but I’ll forgive you “princess” he he. It’s not a crime to admit you feel you need a little affirmative potty action lol. This is rich, seriously Jill, you made my month with this one :). So in order to justify this to yourself you wrote multiple paragraghs which, C’mon now you know are basically bunk lol. Let me just go over a few points you brought up.

“I’m not typically one to cry sexism at every turn but let’s face facts here, women take longer to go for reasons beyond our control. I’ve also heard studies have shown women have to go twice as often as well, which based on personal experience(All male family)sounds true. Then you need to factor in periods, pregnancy and other female specific needs.”

Ok firstly you say factors beyond your control. How long does it really take to pull up and down your pants and sit, 5 seconds if that long. Only a small percentage of women need the restroom for anything other than pee. Just because women go more also doesn’t mean that’s beyond their control. Women can wear simpler clothes, hurry up, not chit chat etc. Besides this still doesn’t answer the question if you take longer to pee how is that men’s fault. Somehow we manage to get out much quicker and not just cause we pee standing. Just because you cannot hurry up does’t entitle you to more. Let’s say we gave you twice as many toilets and you took longer would you then be entitled to 4 times as many? Absurd. Justb shallow your pride and admit you are impatient and want the nannystate to make it easier for you.

“Now in most cases like I said I’d agree it’s best not to pass a law for every little thing but what other option is there in this case? I’ve heard some say leave it up to the business, supply and demand, to provide enough toilets to accomodate women and if they don’t women can just go to a different stadium, theater, restaurant etc. There’s one problem with this though, this is the same everywhere! Some places will be more generous than others when it comes to adequate female toilets but in the main there is little business incentive to provide anymore than the minimum allowed, though for guys the minimum is often more than enough. To tell us just go somewhere else doesn’t work as EVERY place tends to have the same problem, there is no better bathroom option so no one loses business over this issue and thus no one ever does anything about it. Business owners know that their competitors don’t provide better facilities so the only option would be to boycott everyplace which would mean missing out on everything, not an option. As a result women are forced to hold it or wait, can’t just whip it out and go anywhere like guys do :P.”

It’s called the market. If the business won’t supply enough toilets talk to them about it, don’t go crying to the government over it. Way overdramatizing here Jill. And you know your right guys can make do with the minimum, why can’t women then? If women really are equal to men shouldn’t they be a little more efficient. And just because it’s possible to whip it out to pee doesn’t mean it’s not illegal! Public urination is a felony. I can picture someone using this in a court of law “Your honor it is deeply unfair that men can expose themselves to pee in public illegally easier than women!” There are bathrooms for a reason, not all men are animals, only half of us are ;).

“Ok I’ll admit I’m ranting a bit here but this is a problem no one is addressing. Yes there are bigger problems in the world I’d rather see solved but it does kind of bug me that this one hasn’t been solved because the solution is pretty simple but no one will impliment it purely out of consideration. Most archeixtects are men and since they have the final say there’s not much hope for women getting more toilets soon if ever unless a law forces them too. Many women find this issue annoying yet most just seem to accept waiting as natural so just grin and bear it, myself included BTW, although I don’t see it as “natural”.”

Exactly, there are bigger problems than your lack of bladder control! This is actually typical feminist thinking. It’s inconsioderate not to give me more cause I’m a woman. If this is such a problem why don’t more women become archeitects, are they incapable? There are female archeitects you know and I haven’t seen any of them planning restroom space more efficiently then men so don’t blame this on sexism. Also why should the government be expected to pass a law over this. Your almost saying “look women have a major issue with restroom lines why hasn’t someone SOLVED IT FOR US YET!”. Why don’t all you female business entrepueneurs decide to solve the problem yourself or would that put a dent in your profit margin?

“I’m not sure just how far this law should go though. At minimum women should get AT LEAST as many toilets as total toilets and urinals in the men’s room. Really as it exists now it cannot be said to be separate but equal even. I’ve been to places where if you counted the number of urinals and toilets men had 3-4 times as many places to go as women do.”

See here is the problem with this law. The potty parity crowd’s issue again seems to be “it’s unfair men are better able to use the restroom inefficiently please help us.” Of course the solution would then be just to take away urinals so we can all wait equally. Does men having no urinals really help women or do they just have some resentment there? Besides which female urinals could solve the problem but women never wanted to use them. If women are unwilling to sacrifice some privacy as men do why should they have right to complain? You want the advantage without giving up anything, that is not equal. Most places do have an equal number of toilets. Urinals just take up less space than stalls. Is it really fair to spend double on women’s stalls than cheaply install urinals. It’s really just not practical. Can’t women just live with a little wait, is it really the end of the world? I say get over it, urinals give us a bit of advantage it can’t be helped. Men can’t get pregnant but we aren’t complaining, it’s just nature.

“The worst place I’ve seen is an amusement park that had a measy 2 women’s stalls compared with 4 stalls, 12 urinals for men, that’s a ratio of 8 to 1! Now that is the most blatant example of male privilege I’ve ever seen, NO ONE better argue that was fair! Ok that is an extreme example but you see my point.”

I remember that place, totally fair! Sorry I couldn’t resist. Yeah that was unfair but that was rare you admit yourself.

“I’d say the 2 to 1 ratio for women to men is extremely reasonable all things considered, though in one rare instance I saw a ladies line where women had a 6 to 1 ratio in their favor and still had a long line while the men didn’t! I’m willing to accept that women will probably never be able to pee fully as quick as men practically speaking and am not suggesting we get 6 times as many toilets, I’m reasonable. I can tolerate and accept that to some degree we’ll probably still have some wait at most crowded places, but hopefully not 20-30 minutes. At the very least give us an equal amount of toilets, at this point I’d be happy with just that, that’s all we’re asking, please ;). Ok I’m finished now.”

Actually this pretty much proves my point doesn’t it? You get 6 TIMES as many toilets and still take much much longer, that’s outrageous! If that is not enough it shows that it can’t be helped. So we give you 2, 3 or even 6 times as many toilets and you STILL can’t pee any quicker. And why do you get couches when men don’t? Why don’t we build 2 toilets for every woman on the planet will that be enough?! Ya know what, case closed! Seriously this proves my argument. I can’t see what rebuttal you can offer to this. ::Sits back smugly and waits::

“Enjoy your wait free bathrooms guys, you don’t realize just how lucky you have it!”

Actually we do, it is pretty great being a guy isn’t it? Hurray for male privilege! Sorry Jill. But hey if you really have that much trouble holding maybe I’ll let you use the men’s room tommorrow when we go to the city ha ha lol. Oh Jill I just want to say thanks again, really, you truely truely made my month with this one :D. Next time don’t forget to clear your web history before letting us use your computer ;).

Ok took a few days to get to respond to this but believe me I heard plenty about it lol. Ok I’m a bit embarassed here but lemme try and defend my position here!

“Well well well, this sure is something. Don’t worry though I’ll keep your secret….well ok I won’t lol. Your never gonna hear the end of this. I’m showing all the guys this page! But to answer your question yeah you are pretty much a hypocrite but I’ll forgive you “princess” he he. It’s not a crime to admit you feel you need a little affirmative potty action lol. This is rich, seriously Jill, you made my month with this one :).”
Well I’m glad you enjoyed it so much, though my new nickname on campus “potty parity princess” isn’t quite so enjoyable, though I have a good sense of humour about this and the anti-potty parity website your starting dedicated to me :P. Still can’t help but blush at all the snickers I get whenever I go to the ladies room though lol.

“Ok firstly you say factors beyond your control. How long does it really take to pull up and down your pants and sit, 5 seconds if that long. Only a small percentage of women need the restroom for anything other than pee. Just because women go more also doesn’t mean that’s beyond their control. Women can wear simpler clothes, hurry up, not chit chat etc. Besides this still doesn’t answer the question if you take longer to pee how is that men’s fault. Somehow we manage to get out much quicker and not just cause we pee standing. Just because you cannot hurry up does’t entitle you to more. Let’s say we gave you twice as many toilets and you took longer would you then be entitled to 4 times as many? Absurd. Just shallow your pride and admit you are impatient and want the nannystate to make it easier for you.”

Yeah I do get a bit impatient. When your bladder is bursting you would not be happy to have to wait 15-20 minutes to get into a stall and pee! Bathrooms should be planned based on need. If it takes women longer to go it’s necessary to provide more toilets. Just like you wouldn’t expect hundreds of people to all share the same car or phone how is it then logical to expect hundreds of women to share a half dozen stalls! If hundreds of people needed to all share one thing they’d rarely get to use it. But the bathroom is something everyone needs frequently and when you need it you can only wait so long for it. For men this is not a problem, there’s enough so that no one has to wait ever, or rarely anyway. When you need to pee you just pee. For women if you have to pee your expected to wait because we all have to share a limited amount. It’s not entitlement to give people an adequate amount of something when another group is just given it as a privelege based on their sex. It IS discriminatory to decide to give men more than they need while women suffer for lack of it. And it takes longer than you think to get into a stall, get yourself situated, disrobe, wipe, redress and get out all while the restroom is so packed it’s hard to open the door. Even more difficult if your bladder is full, you have a baby kicking your bladder and dozens of women outside listening. For men peeing is simple, for women it’s an ordeal, a jungle even! Be lucky you have a Y chromosome, saves you alot of inconvenience, ALOT!

“It’s called the market. If the business won’t supply enough toilets talk to them about it, don’t go crying to the government over it. Way overdramatizing here Jill. And you know your right guys can make do with the minimum, why can’t women then? If women really are equal to men shouldn’t they be a little more efficient. And just because it’s possible to whip it out to pee doesn’t mean it’s not illegal! Public urination is a felony. I can picture someone using this in a court of law “Your honor it is deeply unfair that men can expose themselves to pee in public illegally easier than women!” There are bathrooms for a reason, not all men are animals, only half of us are ;).”

Alright it is illegal yes, though really seems stupid to criminalize peeing. Ok hard to argue here but it’s still unfair guys can get away with it while women usually can’t. Yes women are equal to men but we don’t have anything to AIM with. Here I’ll concede that nature has given males the advantage in peeing efficiency, bathroom design should take that into account.

“Exactly, there are bigger problems than your lack of bladder control! This is actually typical feminist thinking. It’s inconsiderate not to give me more cause I’m a woman. If this is such a problem why don’t more women become archeitects, are they incapable? There are female archeitects you know and I haven’t seen any of them planning restroom space more efficiently then men so don’t blame this on sexism. Also why should the government be expected to pass a law over this. Your almost saying “look women have a major issue with restroom lines why hasn’t someone SOLVED IT FOR US YET!”. Why don’t all you female business entrepueneurs decide to solve the problem yourself or would that put a dent in your profit margin?”

Women sadly only make up a small portion of business and archeitexture which is an issue in itself. Right now women haven’t attained equality there either so it’s not enough to effect change on the bathroom level. Ok maybe that wasn’t phrased well lol. I will admit maybe we could be doing more but it is inconsiderate for reasons I already mentioned. Letting us use the men’s room occasionally doesn’t make up for it either as our ability to get into the men’s room for relief is still at your whim. Though, um, thanks for being so kind this weekend, I really owe you one for that! But that doesn’t change my opinion on this issue!

“See here is the problem with this law. The potty parity crowd’s issue again seems to be “it’s unfair men are better able to use the restroom inefficiently please help us.” Of course the solution would then be just to take away urinals so we can all wait equally. Does men having no urinals really help women or do they just have some resentment there? Besides which female urinals could solve the problem but women never wanted to use them. If women are unwilling to sacrifice some privacy as men do why should they have right to complain? You want the advantage without giving up anything, that is not equal. Most places do have an equal number of toilets. Urinals just take up less space than stalls. Is it really fair to spend double on women’s stalls than cheaply install urinals. It’s really just not practical. Can’t women just live with a little wait, is it really the end of the world? I say get over it, urinals give us a bit of advantage it can’t be helped. Men can’t get pregnant but we aren’t complaining, it’s just nature.”

I’m a little resentful yeah :P. Female urinals are not efficient as most women do not know how to pee standing up and not all can. Since female urinals would still require partial disrobing yes we’d still need stalls and privacy. I do think men deserve privacy too though so I’m not being elitist feminist here ;). But if female urinals aren’t going to be used extensively, require stalls etc. but can only be used for peeing and still take up space why not just have stalls in that case. I say get rid of urinals altogether, we need stalls! It’s not gonna bankrupt a place to have a few extra potties. Also I don’t consider 15-20 minutes a little wait, that’s pretty long! Reminds me of a phrase I heard “How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door you are standing!” As I’ve said if you were desperate to pee you wouldn’t be comfortable waiting in line with your legs crosssed while the opposite sex’s bathroom is empty enough they may as well put in a revolving door! And last, pregnancy, please! Are you complaining about not having morning sickness, cravings, massive weight gain and needing to pee every 5 minutes? Of course your not or you’d be as annoyed over this issue as we are!

“I remember that place, totally fair! Sorry I couldn’t resist. Yeah that was unfair but that was rare you admit yourself.”

Actually it’s not as rare as you think either. Plus even without being that extreme at most places it’s still pretty bad and annoying.

”Actually this pretty much proves my point doesn’t it? You get 6 TIMES as many toilets and still take much much longer, that’s outrageous! If that is not enough it shows that it can’t be helped. So we give you 2, 3 or even 6 times as many toilets and you STILL can’t pee any quicker. And why do you get couches when men don’t? Why don’t we build 2 toilets for every woman on the planet will that be enough?! Ya know what, case closed! Seriously this proves my argument. I can’t see what rebuttal you can offer to this. ::Sits back smugly and waits:: :)”

This has to be taken in context. There were only 6 toilets for all the women, the men’s room had only one toilet. Many ladies rooms do not even have that many toilets while men have perhaps double or triple that counting urinals. Plus as that case showed they can hold longter and go much quicker. Most women’s room don’t have couches, least not the ones I’ve been too, some do though. We need em too! Here I’ll admit it’s somewhat our fault but I’m not asking for 6 times as many toilets, I’m reasonable. Like I said I’ll accept women having maybe some wait compared to men but something HAS to be done to correct the worst of the problem, at least decrease it to a tolerable level. I can wait 2 minutes to pee, 20 minutes is painful.

“Actually we do, it is pretty great being a guy isn’t it? Hurray for male privilege! Sorry Jill. But hey if you really have that much trouble holding maybe I’ll let you use the men’s room tommorrow when we go to the city ha ha lol. Oh Jill I just want to say thanks again, really, you truely truely made my month with this one :D. Next time don’t forget to clear your web history before letting us use your computer ;).”

Sexist pig :P. But you are a good friend anyway. Funny story. The other day we were at the city and indeed the restrooms were crowded. This wasn’t the first time this has happened as Arthur alluded but this time was much worse than I’ve come to expect. After a long train ride I had to pee, and I mean BAD! When we got off the train and into the station the line at the ladies room was enormous, I could almost cry, nearly fainted seeing it! I was resolute though. I was determined not to let it phase me but as I said I was dying to pee! Of course Arthur and the gang were having a fun time with this after reading my post the other day as I sat there with my legs crossed. I waited 15 minutes before I just couldn’t take it. Arthur was a gentlemen and helped me sneek into the men’s room but I was soooo embarassed. I’ll never live it down. But there were still 53 women in line in front of me! By the time I left the desolate wasteland of the men’s room the woman in front of me in line hadn’t moved an inch! I felt this proved my point, the guys felt otherwise :P. But thanks for letting me go, I’d never have made it if I waited. So your not total jerks but your still sexist pigs :P.