You always here every complain about the few people that disobey the law and get tasered and die, but they never mention the countless times when it is used in a situation which warrants lethal force and saves lives. I can’t say for sure but I would be willing to put a significant amount down that says there are A LOT more of those life saving scenarios. Another thing that is mentioned is that before an officer can carry a Taser they themselves are zapped with one. Hmmmm…seems if they are so dangerous we would here about more officers dieing in training. Obey the law and you will not get tased. If obeying the law is too hard for you to do, then if you get caught do not fight the police.

I’m with Rocky on this one: “Obey the law and you will not get tased”. It seems to be as simple as that! Why would we even consider taking tasers away from our police officers? To me, it makes no sense to give offenders another advantage over us law-abiding citizens.

If you use force to subdue someone you make the front page and every network in the world is showing it. Look at the bank robber footage from the other day. They are already charging that there was excessive force used to subdue the guy. If you can’t use your hands, and they take away tasers, what’s left. You can’t shoot someone with a gun for beating their sister to a pulp. Some of us will never experience any of this. Those that put themselves in that situation deserve what they get. Keep the Tasers. Give the cop’s a break.

The guy threatented a cop and then lunged at him (after beating on his sister - what a manly man). He made his bed, and now he has to lay in it. This time his bed happens to be a coffin. I’ve never beat up my sister, threatened a cop, or lunged at a cop, and I have never been tasered. See the connection?

The suspect obviously was not obeying the law (in beating up his sister, & not obeying the police officer’s order to stop & then lunging at the officer). It would be great if people would once again realize that actions have consequences, & sometimes death is one of those consequences.

Police should use a Taser when they judge it necessary, and follow their own department’s guidelines. Those are the only two criteria that need to be reviewed after any use of the Taser. Did the officer follow department guidelines? Did the officer make the judgment that it’s use was necessary. If the answer to both questions is “yes”, then as unfortunate as it is that there are rare and unpredictable fatal results to the victim, the responsibility for the situation arising at all remains with the victim.

It seems everyone is singing from the same page in the “Joy of Servitude”, so I will play the contrarian.

First, I am neither condoning or condemning the use of force in this case. The specific details are unknown to us, therefore it’s to early to call. However, in general, the Taser is misused by some officers. Officers are trained to react according to “levels of force”. You do not respond to a verbally combative (but unarmed) citizen by shooting them. The normal order is well established.

Verbal: Use strong command tones and other psychological techniques to gain the citizens compliance. There is no set time limit for this level of force, an officer can talk a person down over a lengthy period or quickly escalate the force in response to the actions of the citizen.

Unarmed Physical: Use of “hard hands” techniques, take downs, arm bars, etc. Here the officer uses physical force to restrain an uncooperative, potentially dangerous citizen. The citizen is still unarmed, and generally not so physically threatening as to require a higher level of force.

Non Lethal, but armed force: Here the officer is responding to a citizen who is an imminent threat to themselves or others. The person is still typically unarmed. This usually takes the form of mace, pepper spray or baton.

Lethal force: The citizen is armed with a deadly weapon (gun, knife, etc) and presents an imminent threat to themselves or others. The officer uses firearms to incapacitate the citizen.

Notice there was no mention of Tasers. That’s because as relatively new tools in the policeman’s arsenal, there is still debate on where they fit in. Some officers place them in between the use of voice techniques and hard hands. In their minds it is justifiable to use a Taser on an unarmed citizen who doesn’t comply with verbal commands in a timely fashion. So if they tell you 2-3 times, and you don’t listen, they can Tase you. The problem with this is the Taser is not a “Non Lethal” tool – it’s a “Less Lethal” tool.

In fact, hundreds have died after being Tased. By comparison, death by baton, pepper spray or beating are quite rare. The big difference in the police department’s mind is perception. If a video of an officer using a baton on a citizen leaks out – the outcry is usually swift and furious. But a video of Taser use? Often the public finds it “funny” to watch the criminal lock up, collapse, yell, whimper, spasm or twitch. The Taser leaves almost no marks (especially when compared with a baton) and if the person is healthy and not taking medication (prescribed or not) they often recover in 15-30 minutes. But the truth is, this perception of harmlessness is false – Tasers are often deadly.

So where would I place the Taser in the levels of force? Just above the Baton, mace or pepper spray. If an officer wouldn’t feel justified in clubbing a citizen to subdue them, they sure shouldn’t feel justified in Tasing them. I say this because - perception aside – the Taser has a far higher chance to kill you than a police baton. Yes, police should have them (just as they should carry guns) but they should be mindful of just how much force a Taser truly represents.

Police officers would much rather use the taser than the other alternative - their gun. When someone is in a violent state, on drugs, or intoxicated they have the advantage over the officer - using the taser helps reduce the situation and allow the officer to get the violator in custody. I agree with Rocky - the news should report more of the good things and positive use of the tasers that are done - why always the bad and ugly. Just one piece a night on the good and especially the good that police officers are doing every day and night to protect and keep peace.
It is very sad everything has to be esculated to our court system - take responcibility for your own actions. Your son was beating his sister and you were there - the blame is not with the police.

PS - Thanks for fixing the line break removal problem! It sure makes the longer posts easier to read.

Use a Taser,absolutely! I have three police officers in my family and they had to have a taser used on them during training.They are still alive. Have you ever watched cops on t.v.?They are necessary to stop the bad guys from killing the cops.Being a police officer now a days is so dangerous they need all the help they can get.

The guy wouldn’t have been tasered if he wasn’t punching his sister and then lunged at the cop. Case closed. The police should be able to use every tool available on the market that allows them to keep themselves and law abiding citizens safe.

In this case, if in fact the perp was lunging at the one officer on the scene, I think the Taser was quite called for. However, I do also agree with Anonoman that SOME officers do use the taser a little too readily. I do think that this number is probably very small. But they do happen and should be handled appropriately with disciplinary action. A group of cops that can’t handle one unarmed woman, 17 year old kid, or elderly person without tasering them probably shouldn’t be cops. With that said, I think cops should have the taser available to them as a tool, but that taser should be always be considered a weapon that can take a life, like a gun is. There’s an investigation practically every time a bullet is fired by a police officer, the same should hold true for taser use.

If the sister had used a taser on her brother to defend herself against a beating, and he died because of it, it would be considered self-defense. She had nothing with which to defend herself, so it is fortunate that the cop had a taser to use. Cops should be allowed to use whatever tools necessary to take down a person who is physically harming someone else, or threatening to physically harm someone else.

I think some cops use them when they aren’t needed, but most follow guidelines. I am wondering why more citizens don’t understand resisting a law enforcement officer isn’t going to bring you good things. I don’t like to bow to authority either, but hey! Rev Scott is already out hassling the cops who stopped the latest “Mr Wonderful Let’s Do A Goosechase And Put Everyone In Danger” in IL this week. I’m tired of hearing on the news each night the latest inhuman behavior from these litter-breeding criminals. I’ll tip the cops well who beat the crap out of someone who does a crime on me, but most wouldn’t accept it. They take the trash out for us for very little reward. From the tapes, it looked like the cops did the best they could to bring that chase to an end with no injuries. Scott needs to acknowledge most bait the cops and they egg on “beating behavior”. They can them go back to their pin-headed buddies and brag. Many in Scott’s community are mentally ill and drug addicted. How else would you have us regulate anti-social behaviors?
Cops are just the poor sad sacks who have to deal with catered to, undisciplined, immoral peoples that parents should have dealt with. Here’s a thought. Cop asks you to stop…nut up and do it. Yeah Bunky…YOU give ‘em a reason then whine like a little girl and call mamma for bail. Wussies! Do you think the folks who the cops have to deal with are in the best of health to begin with from drug/alcohol/cigarette abuse and a fast food lifestyle? Rev Scott…I am tempted to put you in a room with somebody on PCP, then ask you to subdue them nicely and gently. Or we will sue you and question your professionalism if you insult, offend or bruise them in the process. I want my thin blue line to stand tall. The alternative makes me shudder. Lets’ just go back to fighting labor law abuses and other forms of discrimination and give the cops a pass now and then, shall we Rev Scott? Did you forgive the biker who hit you when you stepped out in front of him and nearly killed him? Did you refuse any monies from that incident, or did you collect a bundle? See…second guessing isn’t fun. Make the criminals wonder if they have finally met their match. Maybe think twice about the next crime of silliness and danger to others.

Times have changed. Leave it to Beaver days are GONE. Police are outgunned, outnumbered and fighting a loosing battle. Even a child can kill you with remorse. As a result cops have become paranoid, untrusting and even a little scared.

An officer has just a split second to respond to a situation, be it a brother beating his sister or a kid waving a gun around at school. The wrong decision could cost lives.

If you take away the tazers then give them another option. When every other man, woman AND CHILD on the street has a gun, then what chance does a cop have if they are not even allowed a tazer?

Really, does this even need to be debated? Of course they should use any means necessary to protect themselves and others.

Anon, a club requires an officer to be within a few feet of an assailant. I think I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and let them taze away from 20ft out.

Amazed said: “a club requires an officer to be within a few feet of an assailant. I think I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and let them taze away from 20ft out.”

If the situation called for a club level response, I am fine with an officer choosing the Taser rather than the baton. Once again – I am not saying this most recent case was unjustified. In fact, the more details that come out, the more justified it seems.

However, the fact remains, many officers misuse Tasers. They will Taser a person just for backtalk. Officers have Tased (and killed) teenagers and women. Some officers are using Tasers as an alternative to discussion, when in fact every Taser use could be potentially fatal. There are levels of force for a reason. Tasers should be at or above the level of a club, as they kill more people than clubs. To reiterate, an officer should only use a Taser in a situation that calls for force just this side of lethal.

Don’t get me wrong, I am hardly a tree hugger. I think police should have guns (as well properly trained citizens). But if a citizen or an officer uses a weapon, they should be prepared to defend that action as justified – and part of that justification should include the levels of force. You do not shoot a person for being a jerk, and despite some peoples thin skins, harsh and insulting language is not justification for lethal force.

Untill you respond to this type of call and deal with these types of people every day, then keep your negative opinions to yourself. Heres a hint…when your told to stop…stop and you wont get hurt.

I have a question for the Mom who is demanding justice for her son…What about the justice for your daughter? She was being assaulted by your son, and her brother. If she was being assaulted by another man, and the results were the same…you would be saying the cop was a hero for saving your daughter. Well what a shock, now it will turn into a race and money issue. You say you want justice, thats a joke…you want a big payday

Danny,

In your first post you say that unless you’re an officer dealing with calls you shouldn’t comment on the actions of an officer.

In your second post you tell a mother who’s son is dead, and not even buried that she is a greedy race baiter and the only thing she wants is a pay day.

These two posts show exactly whats wrong with many officers. These bad officers show utter contempt for the people they “serve”, debasing them and degrading them at every opportunity. Yet they themselves feel entitled to be treated with the respect due a regent – anything less than instant obedience and a strict “yes sir” is grounds for a potentially lethal response.

I hope you aren’t really an officer – and if you are, I urge you to find a new line of work. The world doesn’t need officers who see the public as the enemy and themselves as the tread upon soldier.

Just two thoughts;

First, I’d rather be tased than shot. If the officer shot instead of tased someone, I think we’d all agree the likelihood of dying would be greater. Just looking at the odds.

Secondly, trying to equate the taser just above a baton may seem reasonable, but for someone on crack, you could use a baton to whip the living daylights out of him and he’d still be unaffected. It happens all the time. A taser temporarily incapacitates even the craziest of nuts.

Every weapon a law enforcment person uses is potentialy fatal, whether it be his/her hands, guns,tasers etc; So the weapon used isn’t the issue, it’s how and in what situations they are used. I’ve seen women tased for not getting out of a car and talking on a cell phone. UNACCEPTABLE!!!! On the other hand, if someone is deemed by the officer to be “PHYSICALLY COMBATIVE” or “PHYSICALLY OVERMATCHING” (ex: man suspect vs. woman cop, 300+ lbs. man vs. 185 lb. man) to the officer then I feel that tasers may be appropriate for use. However, all of this comes down to logic, if a man or woman becomes combative and 2 or more officers cannot diffuse the situation, what else is their but a taser or baton???? Once again, certain situations have been horribly abused: A punk teenager tased on the TV show COPS while the officers on the scene were being “lazy” and could have easily taken this guy down. Here in St. Louis, (St. Louis County Patrol officers to be exact.) I saw a cop threaten to tase teens being detained on a curbside for shoplifting, if they ran. If they run, they run, why threaten their own lives, the suspects lives or the lives of bystanders in order to use this weapon (just like “highspeed chase” debate). And last but not least, the bum, that robbed the bank in Missouri and was pursed into Illinois. The suspect had given up and raised his hands, slam him, cuff him and go on with your patrol.

Protect and serve enslaved??? whatever

You my friend are whats wrong with society today. You speak about subjects that you yourself have never been confronted with. I am a retired police officer of 18 years and made it home to my family every night. I see by your name on this blog that you are a mouth piece of all people that has been wronged by the police. You are the person I was talking to in my first statement…unless youve been by yourself with backup far away from the scene and you are dealing with an out of control person…you have no clue. And as far as my second statement goes…give me a break.

Right on Danny…that guy is an idiot.He would be the first one to call police if needed.He ain’t so tough..just a big talker.

Why are we always defending criminals? Now wonder we are of the nations with the largest crime rate. Our media sympathizes with criminals!

Ohhh, look at this guy who was tasered and died. Who CARES if he was beating someone up, THREATENED a deputy, and ignored the cops. Now this would be a case if the guy behaved for the cops and the cops STILL tasered him. Talk about that scenario. Stop defending attacks on police officers.

With this attitude we should take away all weapons for cops and leave them for the wolves and then wonder why our crime rate skyrockets.

Talk about a duh.

No tasers…..
Shoot em dead and save the tax payers a ton of money.

I think everyone should take a look at this web site(http://www.odmp.org/) and tell me police officers shouldn’t use tasers. Police officers leave there home everyday and have a very high chance of not making it home. Think about it. If you had a gun on your belt and someone was coming after you would you keep it on your belt or pull it out and point it at them and possibly use it. I know if thats all I had I would use it. I’m kind of glad that they have tasers. There are lots of times where a police officer might of used his gun but didn’t because he had a taser. Another thing people don’t think about it when a police officer uses OC spray (mace), it puts their life in danger. If they spray someone and that person charges after the police officer and gets it in the police officers eyes, and now their in danger. Thats why police officers dont like to use it.
The Post failed to let us know how big the guy was that had gotten tased or if he was on anything. I have never been tased and really don’t plan on it. I have been shot in the face with OC spray in the police academy and it was one of the worst things that I have ever had to go through. The thought of getting tased, struck with a baton, or shot in the face with OC spray again, is enough to make me act like a “normal” person.

Tasers have saved a lot of lives and serious injury, both to law enforcement and perpetrators. The police are using nothing that they have not had to submit being used on themselves. Previously, lunging at a law enforcement officer could get you shot. Thousands of perpetrators have been tased without harmful effects and many officers are alive today because they may have hesitated to use deadly force against another human being, even at their own peril.

It is not a perfect world, people make bad choices. Remember, a perpetrator who will not hesitate to attack an armed police officer will certainly not hesitate to attack, injure or kill an unarmed civilian. We must give officers the most up to date tools to do their job and protect themselves and the general population. If an occasional bad guy dies because of an assault on an officer or unarmed person, so be it!

Having them ‘ride the lighting’ is a good thing. People show much too much disrespect for LEO’s.

The police should absolutely carry a taser. It is an effective tool to protect themself and us. As another reader wrote, sorry someone died. Was it from the taser? The officer follwed guidlines. How would you like to be by yourself on that highway with a grown man who just beat up his own sister. He had no respect for her so sure did not have any for the officer. Great job and THANK YOU to all our brave police officers

Cops should be allowed but watched. Good cops need them, bad cops abuse people with them.

The guns have been litigated to death - they don’t cause death.

Fix the penalty for abuse high enough that cops that are outside the law, pay dearly.

Tasers are just another way for the police to abuse their power. They should never have been legalized. Almost everyone who is pro-taser has never been zapped by one. Tasers should be outlawed completely and totally. Until then, a zero-tolerance policy of, “Use a taser, go to jail” should be enacted by every legislature and enforced indiscriminantly.

This has to rank as one of the most stupid questions ever posed in this forum.

Why not ask, “Should police be defenseless against criminal attackers?”

Criminals and thugs not only seek to, but succeed in inflicting serious harm on all sorts of people. In case you haven’t noticed, assaults on police officers have become commonplace.

Will we allow our police officers to employ some intermediate level of weapon to defend themselves, or will we restrict them to the basic (baton) and the lethal (firearms)? Why would we deny them the means to defend themselves against those who have no regard for others?

Our police officer are not educated(some with GED’s) enough to make a decission on wiping their nose much less using tazers. They are scared uneducated kids and most should never touch a weapon much less use one. The studies are flawed at best and for some reason know one pays attention that these tazers have killed full grown bears. I could easily cause heart attacks in at least %50 of the officers that are on the force now. The problem is they tests these things on pigs at a resting postion. I would like to have every officer get hi heart rate around 160 and then let someone taze them. You will induce a heart attack this is a fact. The ignorance of people is unbelievable. Oh by the way I do believe in the use of a tazer, but I believe 8 year olds are much to young and police policy does allow them to taze grade schoolers. Our police officers are scared of their own shadow and that is why thhey use them corwardness should not be a reason for using deadly force.

Okay forget about the news conference that the police had. Also forget what the papers are being told by the police what happened. What you have left is a fight between a sister and her brother and a cop who tazed someone. This is the facts. Do not belive the police .. Harmon says over all crime has went down in St. Louis. What he left out was that murder, rape and assaults increased. Okay so what went down? …………. shoplifting………. big deal. I bounced in bars several years three nights a week and I have dealt with all sorts of situations. I have been jumped, people had taken swings at me and I have been called everything in the book. I was able to handle every sistuation by being polite and then if that did not work I knocked them out and I had never hit anyone. We have cops that are cowards. I do believe in using tazers, but when they use them on 8 year olds then what would they be able to say to a reasonable person taht would make them belive that they truely were in danger of getting their shins kicked.
Hey Rocky they do not have the officers get their heart rates up to a level of where most people are when they are having issues. Get your heart rate up to about 160 to 180 and I will gaurantee that I could induce a heart attack in you…. STOP being such a dumb a**.

I feel sorry that the mother witnessed this. How horrible, but why was he allowed to rough up his sister, Mom why didn’t you end it when it started? Lets face it you can blame yourself for the outcome. Sadly we will all end up paying for this after the lawsuit. Hopefully his unwed girlfriend and child will be able to live on what they get and not need public aid. Yes taser away, if we are not doing wrong we have no worries. Straighten up folks, correct your children and teach them right from wrong and live that way yourself.

Unfortunately they are becoming the weapon of choice among law enforcement agencies. I’m all for their use but not everybody is going to practice restraint as they should. I’m afraid the lack of discretion will always be an issue.