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12.10.2007 5:17 pm

What will happen if the legal immigration program remains expired?

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Let’s just make this clear from the outset: This Talk of the Day topic is about legal immigration.

We’re reporting for Tuesday’s Post-Dispatch about the expiration of the H-2B visa program, the program by which tens of thousands of workers legally live and work in the United States. Here’s a quote from a recent story on the subject by USA Today:

For example, tens of thousands of seasonal workers at hotels, resorts and other small businesses could lose their jobs unless Congress renews a separate law that allows the government to issue more than the 66,000 H-2B visas it is supposed to be limited to. The exemption expired Sept. 30.

Our story notes that the program brings thousands of landscapers from Mexico to the St. Louis area each year. It would be easy to scoff and insist that people simply mow their own lawns. But the fact is, an end to this program — and the lay-off of these workers — has a ripple effect, affecting truck dealers, mulch makers, seed sellers and landscape equipment suppliers.

Meanwhile, action on this issue is stalled in Congress, which is still trying to figure out how to deal with broader immigration reform legislation.

What do you think will happen? Will these workers get a reprieve? Will Congress act narrowly on this issue? Will the workers get laid off — and then what do you foresee as the consequences?

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31 comments

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If U.S. citizens still want a near pure capitalist economy, they have to take the bad with the good. This is what happens with businesess; it makes little difference if it is done at the legislative level, or at the Wal-Mart level. People lose jobs, so others can make money. What, people that live in Ladue can’t mow their own lawns? Come on. Hey…it might be unfair, and a terrible thing to do, but look at all the other stuff your government does to people from foreign countries (see Guantanamo Bay). This is capitalism. Everything in this country is about money…it’s a zero sum game…

— HHH
5:26 pm December 10th, 2007

I think that until the illegal immigration issue is resolved, there will not be much empathy, patience, or concern about the H-2B workers or the ramifications if they have to go home.

— Happy Pants
6:36 pm December 10th, 2007

Let them work, I say. If we had people willing to perform quality labor at those wages, I may feel differently. Our unions require $68 an hour to put a bolt on a wheel. Unskilled labor needs some wage pressure.

— ted
7:19 pm December 10th, 2007

It is legal, they play by the rules. They should be renewed.

— Larry
7:41 pm December 10th, 2007

I am 100% behind the H2-B Visas and think the program should be expanded. These are hard-working people who deserve a chance to work and feed their families just like every other human being. Thankfully, the people in “Ladue” don’t want to cut their own lawns which puts money in these people’s pockets.

— A CENTRIST
8:24 pm December 10th, 2007

Allowing programs for legal immigration to die probably makes matters worse instead of better, and likely encourages more illegal immigration.

— 7dez7
9:58 pm December 10th, 2007

The only reason to let this legal immigration program to expire is to increase the demand for illegal workers. Some politicians want this and will then seek amnesty for the illegals. Their end-game? 12 million instant Democrats to ensure political victories for decades to come.

One good thing about the expiration of this program is that all those homeless people will actually be able to find jobs instead of begging downtown.

— Think|
10:36 pm December 10th, 2007

I felt that the article had a good “man on the street” perspective, but it was light on the gory details. So I did a bit of research to see what the H-2B visa program was all about - who likes it, who hates it, and why. I found this is a pretty complex issue, and it’s tied up with other complex issues.

I think there is a definite demand for seasonal, temporary or one time work, and a shortage of Americans who want to do this sort of work. Also, I believe bans create an underground economy, which almost always create more problems than the ban was supposed to fix.

On the other hand, bringing in these workers lowers the wage offered to US Citizens to do the job. “If an American won’t do hard labor for peanuts, don’t raise your wages! Just import a foreigner who Will do hard labor for peanuts!” Then there are the ripple economic effects. If a poor US laborer gets a pay check, 100% of that money is reinvested in the local economy (often quite quickly). That money then stays in our economy, doing the rounds and keeping the heart of commerce beating. If a poor foreign laborer gets a pay check, as much money as they can is sent straight out the US. Not only does this money not make the local rounds, it doesn’t even help the US at large. It is drained from the area.

Very tough call, and if I hear a good argument, I may be persuaded to change my mind, but for now I support renewing the program (at least until it can be carefully reviewed). In general, I think that these employers can’t pay more, and if they can’t get legal foreign workers to do the job, they will get illegal ones - and that, as they say, is a different ballgame.

— Anonaman
8:28 am December 11th, 2007

I can’t believe Americans want to import foreign workers from all corners of the globe so they can pay sub-standard wages and deprive them of benefits. People condone this?

With manufacturing gone that leaves us with only the service industry. Now workers are being insourced for those jobs too. What happens when there are no jobs left for Americans?

Who did landscaping before the Federal Government started busing in workers from Mexico? That’s right, Americans born in St. Louis.

— Ben
9:16 am December 11th, 2007

I think it depends on the labor you are talking about. Folks have posted about the need to have low paid,fairly unskilled labor for the lazy, cheap or infirm. Some overstate union costs. Their own axe to grind. I hate to see any wage base go down too far. Folks can’t live below a certain amount in this society without living off of others. If we speak of the outsourcing of professional labor like IT folks and engineers, that has gone too far already. We really need to educate and have a source of internal folks for that kind of thing. For our own security in a war filled world. We outsource defense related technology and knowledge, then end up going to war with the same folks we sold it to. Insane! We can’t even make our own TVs anymore in this country. Our kids are largely uneducated in the sciences, and it gets worse each decade. I don’t have a total solution, but as long as big business is at the wheel, it will be profits before common sense and a sense of responsibility toward’s america’s self-reliance and innovations. Future generations and the parents who “raise” them better forget about Wiis and get crackin’. Otherwise, put on the turbans and learn the language. Maybe how to care for camels without getting spit on??? 12% for Citibank bailouts? That’s kind of serious folks.

— Slugger
11:56 am December 11th, 2007

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