My very deepest sympathys and prayers go out to all of the family and friends of the 5 victims who were shot and killed this evening. There is no justification in taking actions like this crazed killer did, and I am sure he is answering for it now. That doesn’t bring back your loved ones, nothing will. I pray that God gives you strength to get through this unnecessary tragedy. I don’t know what is going on in our society, our world; but I do know that too many innocent lives are being lost. My heart bleeds for each and every one of you.

The most sincere sympathy and thoughts to the family and friends of those lost in care and service to their community. I offer hope and prayer to you in your time of loss and the knowledge that many are thinking of you in this time of sadness

I am so sorry to hear of this horrible event. My prayers are with you all and the people of Kirkwood. I heard of this tragic event as I was returning back home to Atlanta after spending a week in Kirkwood. It is hard to grasp the reality of the whole event. May God give each of you peace and strength at this time.
God Bless!

Although I now live in Las Vegas, I grew up in Kirkwood, went to Robinson elementary, and had Mayor Mike Swaboda as my soccer coach. I probably haven’t seen him in 25 years but feel devistated that this has happen. I have the deepest saddness for Mike’s family as well as the familys of all the victims.

We live in O’Fallon, MO and we would like to extend our deepest sympathy to the families who lost loved ones this evening in this most shocking story that unfolded. May God hold each of you in the palm of His hand.

My heartfelt thoughts go out to the families of the victims in the Kirkwood shooting. All of us Kirkwood residents have broken hearts, but we will remember these wonderful people who served our city, and Kirkwood will continue on in their memory, stronger than ever with more commitment to each other, our police, and our council than ever before.

My sympathy to the family and friends of the victims, as well as the community of Kirkwood. Nothing can explain the disgusting acts commited. I pray that the victims find peace, and their families peace to find the whole St. Louis community is here to help them. You are forever in our hearts.

My deepest sympathy goes out to family, friends, and community who suffered a terrible tragedy tonight. May you find comfort in each other and the peace of God.

My deepest sympathys go out to everyone and their familys who lost love ones and to those who had to indure this. My prayers are with the community of kirkwood.

I am an employee of another St. Louis Count y muncipality, and so it is especially hard to imagine the pain that the City of Kirkwood and its employees are going through tonight. My family and I attend church in Kirkwood; my husband works in Kirkwood. We extend our heartfelt sympathy and send prayers to all of the City of Kirkwood.

It does not help to pray so much. Maybe you should changed the law about having a gun/shotgun. This will allways continue in your “free” country.

My sympathies to the familes of all the victims of the Kirkwood City Hall shooting. No family deserves all this pain.

In the words of somebody on TV, “This wasn’t the fault of a group. It was one man.”

We would do well to remember that, rather than blaming guns, or neighborhoods, or anything other than an individual.

As a member of the Webster Groves community and as a member of the staff of Care and Counseling I express my heartfelt sorrow for and support of the Kirkwood community. We hold you in our thoughts and prayers. Dale R. Kuhn

I am so saddened about this whole horrific tradegy. Connie, I miss you so much already. Your spirit, passion and committment to Kirkwood and all it’s citizens will live on in so many ways.

Why can’t we all live peacefully? Our heart goes out to the families of the loved ones killed.

I hope this will be a reminder to everyone to take seriously the pain and oppression some members of society feel. Let them speak their minds. If their obcessions are too great that allowing the to speak provides them no satisfaction, then help them… show them love, understanding, and compassion. When there are abundant signs to numerous people that things aren’t right with someone, it is incumbent on us to respond in a positive wait. Tragedies like this are the result of failed communities.

Nice words Tony!

My deepest sympathies to all family members and friends who lost loved ones tonight in this terrible incident. I will pray for you all tonight with a heavy heart, and tell God to carry you through this trying time.

I live in KIrkwood and want to extend the sympathy of The Presbytery of Giddings-Lovejoy of the Presbyetrian CHurch, U.S.A. to our sisters and brothers of the First Presbyterian Church of Kirkwood, and to the Kirkwood community. All of you are in our prayers and thoughts tonight.

I am a Vianney graduate, although I have not lived in Kirkwood for years. My condolences to the families of all the victims.

I would like to express my deepest sympathy to the families of the victims of this horrendous act of violence. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your loved ones. I am shocked and disappointed in the complete lack of respect on the behalf of the post dispatch. To release the names and gruesome details of the deceased before confirmation that all parties involved have been notified is an irresponsible abuse of power. I wish for peace in the hearts, minds, and souls of the loved ones left behind. I hope that those behind the release of this very personal and delicate information will reconsider their actions in future events. KTVI Fox 2 read your report live on the breaking coverage of this dreadful story and had the decency to omit the victim’s names. Shame on you for your complete lack of empathy and compassion.

Our group from a Clayton church including people from U. City, Chesterfield, Glendale, Creve Coeur,
st Char;les, and Kirkwood immediately stopped our meeting and began praying for all involved, family and friends when we recieved the phone call . We worked in Kirkwood many years and knew many there. You have lots of support and prayers. Lea and amily

I offer my sympathy to the families of the victims of this horrible tragedy and to the Kirkwood community. Tonight most certainly changed the lives of many in Kirkwood and its neighboring communities. I pray that people everywhere can become united and work out their differences peacefully.

The reason for this, we, nor I will never know. What I and probably a lot more people know is this, people in our US economy are struggling with many financial obligations these days. African Americans more so than our counterparts…esp. in segregated cities such as Saint Louis. Two things that will definitely help to combat things of this nature is (a). less racial profiling and targeting of African Americans by police and the judicial systems (along with humane treatment ) and (b). equality in America. If “Joe” gets a warning and several weeks or months to take care of a legal matter….give “Jaheem” the same respect. NO JUSTIFICATION for what happened…but things like this will continue too happen when situations are perpetuated and possible warning signs aren’t reported and/or ignored by family members and people in society (anger,mental health issues etc;). Things will not get better if we do not confront inequality and unjustices head on in a real life manner. Sorry but that’s the truth…Too the humans that we lost tonight, God bless and only prayer and reflection will get loved ones through these difficult times. God bless and blessednight.

What a tradegy. Deepest sympathies to the families of everyone involved, especially Connie. We attended her wedding.

Our prayers and thought go out to all in this tragic event . To all who lost family , friends we offer our prayers and condolences . We will continue to prat and keep you all in our thoughts .

Thank you Baxter. I liked your words. Sorry, my english is not so good, it my second language. Orig. from Scandinavia.

First of all, my thoughts and prayers are with all involved in this tragedy. I’m thankful that the police were able to prevent the loss of life in this already horrific tragedy from being even worse.

Living near Chicago, not far from where five women were murdered in cold blood in a clothing store last Saturday, I had already been thinking about the general state of American society today, and then I heard about the events of tonight in Kirkwood. For the first time, I actually fear for my children growing up in a society where people are quick to resort to violence to solve their problems, are always looking to blame someone else for their problems instead of looking in the mirror, and where respect for others seems to be the exception instead of the rule. Something is clearly wrong with our society, but I have no idea how to fix it.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the entire Kirkwood community after this most tragic evening

My prayers are with the deceased, the injured, their families and friends and all of the people of Kirkwood who will suffer through this.

My thanks to whoever monitors this blog for taking away the racist and stupid comment that had been shown. These were innocent people killed and injured by a very troubled man.

I am watching the news tonight about the shooting. My heart goes out to all the people of Kirkwood, the victims of the shootings, and the families. I live in DeSoto, another small town. I cant emigine the sadness that one feels when something this horrible happens in your hometown. Kirkwood is a town like all small towns where everyone knows everyone else. It is like that here in DeSoto. Kirkwood, know people here in DeSoto are praying for you.

My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of the victims who suffered this horrendous tragedy. May God be your strength in the days ahead.

I am so shocked and saddened to hear that Connie Karr is among those dead from this horrible, senseless tragedy.

My heart, thoughts and prayers go out to K and L.

Connie, the world will be darker place without your wit, humor and love of life.

I also agree with Roger. Society has gotten so bad you can’t allow your kids to roam too freely as I did in the 80’s as a child. Technology (free internet sites that show any and everything you can imagine, TV etc;), lack of involved parenting (parents “IT IS OK TOO BE NOSEY WITH YOUR CHILD…SNOOP AROUND PLEEEEEEEASE!!!!), lax gun control, lax police searches (how did he get in a court setting with a gun!!!!!!??????????) failing school discipline and an act first talk later or “talk too late” society can all be blamed for the problems today….Parenting first and foremost, professional school administrators and teachers, not just people collecting checks letting kids pass that shouldn’t, and next neighborhood involvment all needs massive improvement. First the Lane Bryant robbery ( like the movie”Set It Off”‘), the LA shooting in which 5 people died today in a standoff( similar too tv shows like”Texas Swat”) and now this incident today(shows like “Court TV’s wildest court brawls”). All within a week of each other. Too much free and uncontrolled media and internet exposure too violence….sorry media, but you all play a part sometimes. America has been on a decline since the Oklahoma Bombing and Columbine…don’t know why. Unseen forces maybe. Once again NO EXCUSE, MUST HAVE SELF CONTROL . But also, you never know how much a persons been through. Pays too make friends rather than enemies. The devil is a liar. PRAY. 1.

My brother is a police officer, and every time one is hurt or killed in the line of duty, I think of him. My heart goes out to the families of the slain officers and the families of the other victims.

I wish to extend my deepest sympathy to the families of the victims of tonight’s shootings..You are all in our thoughts and prayers. Our hearts go out to you , and all those in the Kirkwood community in this time of great sorrow.

My deepest prayers go out to all that lost love ones in this tradegy. One of those victims is my wife`s cousins husband! Now is the time for everyone to come together and remember those who lost their lives

My heartfelt sympathy to the bereaved families.
I lived in Kirkwood for 25 years before moving to Chicago
It grieves me that this could happen in the city that I came to love.

the utmost and sincere prayers and condolences to all who were affected by tonights tradegy. May the grace of the Creator comfort you in this time when answers will be hard to grasp.

I live in Northeast Missouri and am deeply saddened by tonight’s event. My prayers and thoughts go out to everyone hurt by this tragedy and the city of Kirkwood. I’m so sorry this happened to all of you.

My thoughts and prayers are with the people of Kirkwood and the victims family. Godspeed to the mayor and his recovery. May we be able to put aside our differences and accept one another in this time of grief and heartache.

Although I said I didn’t want to watch this or read about it because it hits too close to home, I sat up and watched all the news coverage on the shootings in Kirkwood. My husband is a police officer in a nearby city. I recall countless times hearing him tell me that he is needed for security at similar city functions. As a police officer’s wife you can’t think daily about the dangers of the job and the possible repercussions for your immediate family. My heart goes out to all, but particularly to the police officers’ families. There is a whole in my heart for you tonight. My thoughts and prayers are with all of you, and please know that the vast majority of people truly value human life and the dedication of your spouses to the law enforcement profession. They are truly heroes and will not be forgotten.

We are in Palm Beach County, Florida and we are as shocked around the United States as those in your town. Violence is always the weak man’s way out, and sadly such does more damage than good in our Society. To let you know, the Nation stands with you over your loss. Every life is so precious, so very precious.
In our Prayers and Thoughts.

As a past Kirkwood citizen, and friend to several Kirkwood Police officers, words cannot express our deep shock and sadness for yet another strange occurence in what I believe is one of the best places to live in this world. Our thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of all of the victims of this horrible tragedy. Jim and Jessica

Sympathies to all who have lost family members and the City of Kirkwood. We all face oppression at some time, but we don’t all go on a shooting rampage to take out our personal revenge! It is sad and difficult to hear justification by the family of the victim and the comments simply appear ignorant and insulting to everyone, black or white. This is just the lack of respect for life that causes people to take such insane actions. America’s obsession with allowing handguns doesn’t help either. Hopefully community members will gather, reflect and heal. People should show compassion to troubled people, which it appears was done to some extent, but NOTHING can justify this man’s actions. If you think something can justify them, YOU are part of the problem. Again, sympathies to all. God help us end this type of thing!

My son had to retire from the police department due to an injury while on duty after twenty four years.

The day he retired was a day of happy and yet sad. Sad because he really loved his work and helped so many people. Happy for me because I will never have to worry about that one knock on my door.

After thirty one years of police officers in my family I was glad this day had finally come. I said to myself, no more fears, no more tears I felt very lucky, until tonight. Police Officers are a family, if this tragedy had happened three months earlier my child could have been one of those officers answering the call of an Officer Down. When I heard that two officers had been killed, I cried, and cried for these two men and their families, because not only are the men and women in law enforcement a unique brotherhood, their wives,husbands, children and parents are connected to one another also.

To the families of these officer my heart goes out to you. For all of the other people killed or injured my deepest sympathies. I am praying for each of you. May God be with you and keep you in His heart.

My condolences and deepest sympathies go out to the families suffering from this senseless act of violence. Such a pity. These were such good and honorable people, such fine public servants, loved by their families and loved by all their friends and acquaintences throughout the area. I will be praying for all and trust that God in his mercy will bring his faithful servants home to eternal salvation. These families have endured other tragedies before and they will need all the prayers, love and support we can muster to get through all this. This will forever leave a void in our hearts and in the soul of this communiity.

Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in Heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy. Deepest sympathies.

Sad and senseless. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of all those wounded and killed. No words can take away your pain and sorrow, no words can shed light on why such a horrible tragedy has happened. Kirkwood has lost more than fine citizens and brave police officers tonight. We have lost another little piece of our innocence. Mayberry no longer exists.

I am so saddened by the loss of so many lives tonite in Kirkwood . I pray that the leaders of this community can unite in prayer and may the innocent have not died in vain. I stood beside Connie Carr and the Mayor in 2006 at Meramac College on election day and so loved the campus my son goes there. Connie was a dear friend and the shock is just setting in. My heart goes to the fallen police officers who all across America put their lives on the line for Democracy. Please join us in prayer for the friends and families who have suffered a great loss
and for the shooters family who I feel couldn’t stop their lost soul family member. This is not the Kirkwood I know and may healing begin for us all. God’s Peace to all only he is the great healer of mankind.

There are so many emotions to this horrible and tragic crime. First and foremost, I extend my deepest sympathy to the families, friends, co-workers and community of Kirkwood. As an elected official in another community I come in contact with those who are upset about various issues that they feel are unfair to them. But we live in a community, governed by the community with rules that have to be enforced fairly and equally. If you have one individual who wants to disobey those laws and feel that they should be treated special, how can you justify that to the others in the same community who obey those laws? This wasn’t “war”, it was murder. A suspect went up against unarmed civilians and Police Officers who didn’t have a chance. And for what? Code violations that he didn’t want to obey? Violations that everyone else has to obey for the good of the whole community. There are ALWAYS options, but those options never, ever include murder! How much did the suspect spend on lawsuits, gas, time, effort, etc. to fight what was upheld by a federal court? How much would it have cost him to move the vehicles that were a large part of the problem? How much to take whatever classes were necessary to come into compliance? At the very least he could have saved his family from going through this time as well. I know he could have saved those he killed by just using some common sense. But he chose to murder and all the talk in the world won’t bring those devoted, public servants back, or their loved ones to their families. We have got to teach people that there is a better way than violence.

I would like to give my deepest sympathies to the families of the deceased and wounded. Mike Swoboda is my neighbor, as well as was a volunteer at Robinson Elementary in the early ’90s when I was a student there. My father is a retired police officer, and knew both of the officers killed on Thursday. What happened Thursday was horrible. I was shocked to receive a phone call at school from my mother saying that such a tragedy had occurred. Honestly, I first asked her if she was joking, and was horrified when I discovered she was not.

My main concern with the ordeal is the fact that someone, no matter how distraught the individual may be, felt the need to resort to violence in the name of combating racism and inequality. The approach nauseates and disturbs me. Of course I understand that African Americans, as well as any minority, have been suppressed in some way by the city of St. Louis, and so forth in other areas. Kirkwood is known for its small-town mentality, where one thing becomes everyone’s problem, and if an attack is made on the city, we fight for our city. Arguably it could be said that no one fought in favor of Thornton. Well, I’m not a “jackass” or have a “plantation-mentality,” and in all honesty, I will not support someone who accuses me of such characteristics. Accordingly I find it kind of ironic that when Thornton became dissatisfied with the way he was treated, he chose to resort to violence and murder. Now what message and image does that send to members of my community, his community, as well as to the rest of the nation? Not a positive, culturally accepted one. Stereotyping and racism thus continues on when matters are handled in such violent ways. I’m sorry, but I went to high school with Kevin Johnson, and the reactions and feelings towards his murderous act haven’t changed, and I don’t think the reactions and feelings will change in the aftermath of this tragedy. It’s too close to home in such short time. And people will heal differently.

My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who had family or friends killed or injuried in Thursday shootings. I especially am thinking of the entire Biggs family. I grew with Officer Bill Biggs sons and spent many summer nights over at his home growing up. Officer Biggs was amazing man and a father figure in my life. I was heart struck when I read that he was one of the officers killed in the line of duty.

P.S. There is no justifcation for this senseless violence. These actions are born out of pure evil, not “mis-understanding”

Words cannot easily describe an event as horrific as this… I’m speechless for how to respond.

My unyielding support goes out to the families of the victims, the Kirkwood Police Department, and the city itself as I was raised my whole life in Kirkwood and personally knew a number of the victims of this senseless shooting. Kirkwood, as a small town, has sheltered me and was an amazing place to grow up. The Kirkwood Police welcomed me into their organization as a Police Explorer which helped to make me the man I am today. In a way Tom Ballman himself helped raise me… Mike Swoboda would always welcome you with a smile… and Bill Biggs was a good man who always had your back. We’ll never have these great people that we lost today, they can not be replaced, but its a challange we can overcome.

I only hope that our response is not out of vengeance, nor out of hate for that will surely destroy what Kirkwood has always been beautiful for. It is no doubt will we have the difficult challange of recovery ahead of it but we cannot make the problem worse. I only ask that our response examines the cause of these senseless acts of violence and addresses them, for let us remember that this isn’t the first time an incident like this has happened, I only hope we can prevent the next one.

Godspeed…

As one who grew up in Webster Groves and remembers many dear friends and times in Kirkwood I am hurt by the hurt caused to those shot, their families, friends and neighbors. I guess I think, “If this can happen in Kirkwood, wherecan’t it happen?” May God grant His grace in the peace that passeth all understaning in this time to all of you.

As a Kirkwood resident and KHS grad it makes me so sad to see such a horrible tragedy in my hometown. My deepest condolences and best wishes to those affected by this tragic event. The unfortunate news that has been coming from our small community over the last few years has been heartbreaking. Since when did being a Kirkwood police officer become such a dangerous job??? Gun control anyone???

My deepest sympathies are extended to the families who lost loved ones tonight… both the victims and the shooter. I am praying for each and every one of you. While my mind focused on the victims and their families, God really made me take a look at the surviving friends and family of the shooter. Not only will they be grieving the loss of a loved one, but also will be dealing with the shock that their loved one could perform such an act. I hope that residents will realize that they are victims in this as well… and work to heal as a community.

As for the safety at future meetings…
After “9/11″, safety and security is a much stronger focus than it had been in the past. We realize that some “freedoms” may be limited/modified to ensure the safety of the community. Many schools, courtrooms, public buildings have added metal detectors to ensure no guns, knives, or other weapons can be taken into those public areas. While this causes additional work, time, and money, I’m sure we can all agree that the safety of the community is of much more value.

Again, my prayers to ALL of the victims and their families.

My heart is broken. During my tenure as City Clerk for the neighboring City of Oakland, I became friends with Sgt. Bill Biggs. (Oakland contracts with Kirkwood for its fire and police protection.) Sgt. Biggs attended Oakland’s board of aldermen meetings in the capacity of Sgt. at Arms, and was our direct contact with the Kirkwood PD. He was a shining example of a great cop, and was a true prince with a heart of gold. He, along with the others lost in this horrible nightmare, will be sorely missed.

I am once again deeply saddened by this horrible event. I come from a small town also and know exactly what it means to have bad things happen to friends and family. Kirkwood is a beautiful place for anyone thats ever been there, so I say we are all praying for everyone. Ask the Lord for daily guidance and he will always be there for you….

God Bless All

I was born & raised in Kirkwood but haven’t been in St Louis since 1992. My family still lives there and I heard about the beginnings of this last night. I just am so choked up this morning over this whole ordeal. I send my prayers to all involved and for those lives lost. God bless.
Lisa Dickinson–Huntersville, NC

My sincere condolances to all who lost in this tragedy. I wished words could change what had happened but I know they can’t. These were all individuals trying to get through the day and make their corner of the world a better place. They will be missed.

Connie Conroy Karr is my friend: we were high school classmates in suburban Chicago, and worked together in drama and the high school newspaper. She was her usual, vivacious, hilarious (and at times irreverant, but never disrespectul) self when I last saw her this past Spring. My deepest sympathies go to her husband and daughter. I am so sorry. This makes no sense.

My deepest sympathy to the families of the fallen in Kirkwood. Senseless acts like this are hard to understand. I watched and prayed for the families and co-workers of these downed public officials with a heavy heart last night. My thoughts and prayers go out to the entire Kirkwood community. May God be your strength through these times of mourning.

This is such a tragedy. How can a guy be so stupid to think that going into that council chamber and KILLING people would solve his problems. And I’ve read the forum on station KMOV where total idiots are trying to justify the actions of this punk. As I am typing this, on the radio is a statement from this shooter’s mom, saying, “…well, it was an act of God, like a storm or tornado. They just kept writing him tickets for all kinds of things”(paraphrasing). I can’t believe I just heard that!!!! And his brother was interviewed and talking as though this guy was justified in shooting…OVER PARKING TICKETS.

This is no video game and there is no RESET button to push. These folks are dead — grandfathers, grandmothers, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cousins, friends — DEAD. Hopefully last evening, this punk had a chat with God and was reminded, THOU SHALT NOT KILL!

The best way to handle this is to keep having open public meetings at City Councils across America. It’s times like this where we don’t want to hear about the tree of democracy being watered by the blood of patriots and tyrants. It always sounds better when we are at war in another land. But this incident is no less important in realizing that, in order to have freedom, you must sometimes have tragedy. You can’t let violence stop the exercising of democracy. Every town meeting across our land should remain open to the public to celebrate the wonderful freedoms we have and the people who lost that freedom in Kirkwood last night.

God Bless all those in Kirkwood.

I worked in Kirkwood, and spent several years as a buiness neighbor to the police & city government offices. My deepest sympathies to you all, to the families of those killed and wounded. My thoughts and prayers are with all of my former Kirkwood neighbors today, especially.

I’m sorry for not sounding very sad about this event. I guess it’s just everyday news. People die all the time, and these people knew this guy was a lunatic and that he’d just had a major loss in court.

It sounds like there were only 2 cops present, both of whom were worse shots than the terrorist, apparently. So, I’d say that the city didn’t provide adequate security for its own people, and sadly some of them died. I’m sorry that today their families are suffering because of what was certainly a preventable incident. My thoughts and prayers go to those still in the hospital and all the families.

Will somebody wake up? People are stressed, and/or mentally disturbed and they have guns. If you don’t defend yourself, this will happen again and again until someone puts a stop to it. I don’t care about city counsels…they have a police force to help them. I’m concerned about the kids in school, where we definitely need better access control and security.

Officer Bill Biggs attended my Dad’s funeral in Mustang Oklahoma only one year ago. It’s difficult to believe he was a victim of this crazed maniac and my prayers and condolences go out to all the families left behind in the wake of this horrible act. May God bless all of you who are left and may all your memories of loved ones be wonderful. God’s grace is sufficient and He will get you all through. Know His peace.

First and foremost, my condolences to the families of the victims. No words will be able to sooth your pain, but I hope that, in time, you can move on and still live a fruitful, happy life. If not for yourself, than for the memory of the loved ones you’ve lost – they would not want you to mourn forever.

As for preventing acts like this in the future, it’s very difficult. For those calling for stricter gun laws, did you see the murders in California earlier this week? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the land. Did you see the murders in Chicago earlier this week? Chicago BANS the ownership of handguns. Remember the Virgina Tech murders? It was a “gun free zone”.

What is the TRUE connection between these and many, many other mass killings? Insanity. The man who killed these innocents last night was insane. So the real question is - “How do you stop a mad man who is determined to cause harm?” This is a Much scarier question, because there really is no good answer. However, in todays world, there is enough damage being caused by insane people that we need to make a concerted effort to find an answer.

Perhaps TV should have a violence ban, similar to the nudity ban already in place. Our children can’t see a womans bare bottom, but they can watch Jack Bauer torture and kill people on a nightly basis. Perhaps banning violence from network TV won’t have an effect on crime – but have we tried yet? We know that gun bans don’t work, but what if we take the “cool” factor out of guns? Will crime go down? I say it’s worth finding out. We also need to de-stigmatize mental health treatments, and make them more available. If people are showing signs of mental instability, it’s way better to deal with it Before it erupts into violence and murder.

Also, there will be some that call for the relief of poverty, saying that the root cause of this is a pervasive sense of powerlessness. While relieving poverty, and helping the less fortunate is a laudable goal, and worthy of our efforts in it’s own right – lets not confuse that issue with what happened last night. Last night was about a mentally unstable man, who’s untreated inanity drove him to Murder five people over parking tickets. He was not a freedom fighter and he was not fighting “oppression”. He killed people over parking tickets – he was insane.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of those shot and killed or injured in the Kirkwood City Council meeting last night, as well as to the city of Kirkwood itself.

It is tragic something like this can occur in a peaceful town such as Kirkwood. I spent 23yrs. in Kirkwood as I was growing up, and a story such as this hurts very deeply, even though I now live in another state.

Kirkwood is and always has been a strong city. A unfortunate incident like this will bring the town closer, and that much more resilliant.

Rob Gatwood
Claremont, NC.

God Bless each and every one of you.

I know the mayor because I rent a home from him. It is very sad. My condolences go out to all the victims and their families. The police were just doing their job, probably neighbors complained about all the trucks, which I understand, so it’s the city and the police who have to respond. There is no excuse.

Please note that the topic is addressing condolences for the victims. We also invite discussion of the secondary topic: Keeping public meetings safe — while keeping them open. Attacks on the victims, the shooter’s family and racist remarks are inappropriate and off-topic and will be dealt with accordingly.

This just seems so preventable to me.

My overall impression is that city officials and Mr. Thornton were on completely different wavelengths, just were not able to “get” each other.

First and foremost–I condemn the murder and violence that Mr. Thornton committed.
Also, I don’t approve of his reported behavior at council meetings. However, let’s be honest: is there not SOME level of government or other “institution” that each of us has encountered that seems to NEED a large picture of a donkey and the description, “jackass?”

However disruptive and vulgar, Mr. Thornton was at least a PARTICIPANT in our system of law. It does seem as if he explored a number of lawful ways to resolve his conflict with the city. I think it is important to note that his brother has said he did not really understand the legal system. Certainly it seems as if he had faith that it could do what other methods could not in resolving his problems with the city.

Clearly the vulgarity and disruptive nature of Mr. Thornton’s tactics worked against him. But is it not also true that city officials, and the “establishment” (mainstream reporters etc) basically “wrote him off” (for example the mayor saying we won’t stoop to his level, the implication being that Mr. Thornton would continue to be ignored) without much consideration of his complaints?

If (as has been mentioned elsewhere) almost $20,000 of parking tickets were issued for parking his business trucks in front of his own house, that seems to me like a legitimate issue.
My last apartment complex had a policy barring commercial vehicles–including a personal car if it had “advertising writing” on it. I felt they weren’t being reasonable prohibiting lousy Avon window decals, much as Mr. Thornton seems to have felt about the city.

It just seems that it was clear how frustrated Mr. Thornton was getting, and that instead of viewing him as merely a “nuisance” it would have helped if there was some sort of mediation process for people with disputes with the city or an ombudsman who could address his concerns.

What a terrible stretch of news for Kirkwood in the last three years.

RIP

Words only cheapen our true feelings at this time. We all offer our prayers and support to you for your loss. Please seek out someone with whom you feel comfortable sharing your feelings, whether a trusted friend or legitimate professional. Once the shock begins to wear off, more feelings may emerge. Talk is the most healing medicine. Special attention should be given to any children directed affected by this tragedy. Any loss of parent, sibling, relative or friend will mean loss of a sense of security for a child. Parents and caregivers should be prepared to tolerate regressive behaviors and accept the manifestations of agression and anger, especially in the early phases after the tragedy.

I believe anyone in government has to always remember that what they do for the people is not for all of the people. You only have to tee-off one person that will snap to create an event as in Kirkwood. I think of the people pushing for Emanate Domain to build a shopping center. I look at Charles Dooley pushing for county-wide trash pickup. I look at the councilman from Shrewsberry pushing for a ban on smoking.

It’s just my opinion.

My prayers are with the victims and their families.

Sorry I yelled at the TV when you came on to report during tribal council on Survivor. I didn’t realize the magnitude of the situation. My deepest sympathies go out to the friends and families of those lost, wounded and those that had to live through this.

What has happened to Kirkwood? I grieve for the whole community today. There are many problems in town but nothing can be solved by such tragic violence. Despite what the world must think, I have lived here nearly 30 years and the awful things that have happened in the past 3 years haven’t been part of this town’s history. It has been a wonderful place to raise a family. Of all those hurt or killed last night, the one I remember most fondly is Connie. Two summers ago, when our home had been without electricity for four days and no one knew when it would come back on, she came through the neighborhood with bags of ice and water to try to help. She did. We would have voted for her, and this town will miss her.

As a member of the City Council of Granite City, my thoughts and prayers go out to all the victims and their families. Words cannot express the feelings I have at the loss of these public servants. I pray that the good Lord will comfort you in this hour of extreme sorrow.
Alderman Dr. Virgil Kambarian, Jr, Granite City, Illinois

My thoughts and prayers to all of the officials affected by the events in Kirkwood. I’ve had the honor of serving on a committee with Mayor Swoboda through the Missouri Municipal League and he is a past president of that orgainization. He is well thought of throughout the state for his leadership in that orgainization. As an elected official myself, you run into situations where people are upset all of the time. You just hope it never gets this extreme. I hope people will come together in Kirkwood and get through this and continue to be involved in their local government and support the people trying to keep the city going through these trying times.

Perhaps some of the prayers should be reserved for the cause of this event. The focus is always put on bullying in schools but what happens when those bullies grow up and then take positions on City Councils, Business Mgmt, etc.? They obviously pushed this man too far for someone to take this extreme measure. Kirkwood has a tendency to be uptight whites that have an issue with feeling superior to everyone else and I would say that attitude is common in several sub-communities in the St. Louis area - i.e. Chesterfield, Sunset Hills, Town and Country….. These communities need to look at how they are viewed externally. Sure many native St. Louisan’s have this problem also so they should step back also and realize in the grand scheme of things they are really nobody to push anyone else around.

I am praying for you.
Let us all wake up to our need for the Lord…in all aspects of life.

I agree with Tony. Until people and the media truly know a person and why they committed such horrific actions, people need to look at why would a person do something like this. It is the communities around them that have failed them and not guns. These actions were not this individuals character. He was a kind person who just wanted to be heard and he felt he was not being given that God given right. Remember, you can believe everything that you see or read or hear in the media.

My deepest sympathies go out to all those family members that lost someone they loved last night. May God help you through your loss.

My prayers go out to all the affected families in this tragedy. Charles Thornton was clearly an unstable man. I believe he felt that he was being unfairly dealt with; however, it appears that he had conflicts with MANY people and not just City Hall. He has sued and been sued more than any other person I’ve seen. To see his litigious history, go to:

http://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet

and put in his name - he has SEVERAL judgements and restraining orders against him. City Hall isn’t the only “person” who caused him “trouble.” He has a judgement against him for over $150,000 recently as well as a few judgements against him for not paying his taxes - one that is over $18,000.00. This idiot was the cause of his OWN problems - not City Hall. It seems that he was one of those disillusioned people who believes that he is not subject to the same rules and laws as the rest of us. When government or whomever tried to enforce the laws, Mr. Thornton cried discrimination. Good riddance to you Mr. Thornton, it’s just a shame that you took several good, upstanding, and rightous people with you.

Correction:

I meant to say that you cannot believe everything that you see or hear or read in the media.

As a former Chesterfield Police Officer who now works in Kansas City my deepest sympathies and prayers go out to all the innocent victims of this shooting. I especialy give my prayers to the deceased Kirwood Police Officers, their familes and the entire Kirkwood Police Department.

Both Officers were never given a chance to defend themselves against a cowardly adversary who shot them in the head without warning. Only the weakest of our sociecty would engage a Police Officer first and then to do so without so much as giving that Officer the chance at defense shows the extreme cowardness of that individual. I so glad the thug was able to be put down by other Kirkwood Officers thus saving the Department from a heart wrenching public trial.

RIP bother Officers and may the Lord accept you into His kingdom to be by His side for eternity and may He be with your familes to provide them some comfort in this terrible time.

That is really crazy that someone would actually look up his case.net history. You do not know what kind of person Mr. Thornton was in real life and this was not him. in reference to maritime66 comments.

Our sincere condolences to the families and friends of those effected by that horrific tradegy at the Kirkwood Court House. Having spent over 21 years in Kirkwood with both of our sons being born and reared in that lovely City before relocating to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, we feel a tremendous sense of loss for a City that has such a feeling of family, safety and an all American place to raise a family.

Our thoughts and prayers are with Mayor Swoboda, his family and all those family members of the other victims. This is a tradegy that just eats at your heart. Kirkwood is still a great place to live and Kirkwoodians will get through this as they’ve always had in the past.

My heart goes out to the victims, their families, and the entire town of Kirkwood. I grew up in Ladue and often spent time in Kirkwood and I love the town and its people. I know this is really not the right place for this but I am having some trouble understanding how people are justifying what Thornton did.

His own mother said:
“No one should kill,” she said. “But people shouldn’t drive people to kill.”

His actions were not justified at all. His brother said Thornton “went to war.”

I just don’t understand this. His actions were not warranted in any way, shape, or form. I completely understand his frustration with the system but at the same time, five people are now dead, more injured, and countless people left broken apart by this tragedy.

My thoughts and prayers are with all the victims’ families. I have been very disappointed to read some of the comments made by Charles Lee Thornton’s family members. Obviously their son/brother had serious mental issues; it is sad they were not able to recognize that and get him the help he desperately needed. As far as a comment I read about in the Post from his mother stating it was a terrible act, but it was also terrible he was driven to do it by the City, that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. Maybe if Charles actually followed the law as everyone else does, he would not have gotten ticketed and other such fines levied against him. Its all about personal responsibility and lately it seems as though the residents of Meacham Park are blaming everyone else but themselves for the actions that have taken place in the last few years. I would love to see some sort of focus group created by the residents of Meacham Park to address the violence that has erupted from that neighborhood. It is a tragedy what has gone on in Kirkwood and I for one am anxious to see it stop. What’s it going to take people?

My condolences go out to the families of the victims. Even for “Cookie”, who was also a victim of circumstances and torment. He was one of the kindest people who I have ever met. The smile that he wears on the photo that is shown over and over again on the air, is the smile that he wore day in and day out. People admire him and children adore him. His smile and enthusiasm brings so much joy to people at church, where he is a regular part of our congregation. I am so sad that in his mind he felt the need to take matters into his own hands, but God knows what drove him to that point. Another sensless killing spree that could have been avoided.

My prayers are with all the family and friends hurting after this terrible event. I am saddened that someone felt murder was an answer to frustration and anger. I’m not sure if anything can be done to make public meetings safer other than to ban problem or openly hostile guests. I hope we can learn from this so it doesn’t have to happen again.

My thoughts and prayers are with Kirkwood. When I saw the Kirkwood city hall on my news today here in California I was saddened. Growing up in Kirkwood was incredable and has always epitomized middle America for me. Police and city officials have a hard thankless job much of the time and for something like this to happen if horrific. God bless and know that though may of us have have moved away for various reasons, our hearts are there with you in Kirkwood. We are thinking of you all and are saddened by your loss.

RE: Comment by ab:

I think that Mr. Thornton’s litigious history reveals quite a bit about who he was: He was a man who had conflict with everyone he dealt with in business. He was sued and he sued many times. He didn’t pay his taxes and didn’t want to follow local regulations. He was obviously the type of person who had the “entitlement” attitude and when the world didn’t agree, he snapped. End of story. Whatever else he did or was in life doesn’t really matter at this point now does it?

This will only result in negative consequences in which all of us lose more of our civil rights and city council’s use this as justification to further lock citizens out of the process of how their money is spent and decisions are made in their community. It’s a sad situation that our country has come to where citizens are now serfs to appointed and unappointed “officials”. That is what has lead to this situation. The regular everyday citizen has been bundled in with the kooks and everyone at city council meetings are treated with equal disrespect and regarded as the unwashed masses.

My prayers and condolences to all effected by this horrible tragedy. You did not deserve any of this.
I agree with Michelle G. - this man took 5 lives. No one forced this man to kill. He picked up a gun of his own free will and gunned down 7 people. To try and place blame on anyone or anything else but the shooter is the height of ignorance. Not one person should even attempt to justify or make sense of what he did. He was a murderer, plain and simple. I am sorry for his family’s loss, but no one can make an excuse as to why he stole 5 lives.
That monster should not be given the time of day - he has faced God and will pay for what he did with his eternal soul.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this tragedy. The heartache expressed in these postings is overwhelming… but yet we realize it cannot compare to the grief being experienced by the families of those who were lost or wounded.

May the Lord bring comfort to the community of Kirkwood City and to our nation as we grieve these losses and… later on… as we begin to heal. May He give us His wisdom to recover from this horrible tragedy and His strength to dutifully serve others selflessly and share the love of Christ.

We deeply mourn in sorrow… but in our sadness… we still cling tightly to the hope that is in Christ. For in Christ, we can rejoice in saying, “O death where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” for with and in Him, we have life everlasting. Let us comfort one another with these words, give our hearts, life and future to Jesus Christ and share His love and His promise with others.

I ask the Lord to wrap us all tightly in His love and pull us through this together.

I do agree there is still oppression in this society, but justifing that he “went to war” and he had spoken out so many times without the councilman listening? To the people who wrote that we need to be loving to the ones who are oppressed, yes but not if there is hostility and nothing but anger. How can you communicate with someone who is full of anger and and verbal abuse. Nobody deserves that. It sound like those councilman tried to reason and communicate with him but he was too irrational, hostile, hurt and obsessed. That is were he needed counseling or help from someone to deal with his anger and assist him how to communicate effectively and assertively of his grievences. Instead he took killing people as a resort. There seems to be no remorse with his mother and brother. That is another reason it is being justified. The mother said well , what would you do after five or six years of this going on? AND not showing a tear or sadness that her own son is gone!!!(Elliot Davis interview last night)( I do not agree he should of been interviewing Cookies family so soon after his death,that could of been more respected).My heart goes out to the families of the victims and all of Kirkwood- I love Kirkwood and have for many years. This was my neighboring town when I grew up. I always wished I lived there. Kirkwood has so much to offer for all people with every culture and ethnic background. This “war” seems to be justified by some, which any murder is sick and inhumane. Were is the sanctity of life?

I watched this story unfold last night on the television. As more became known, I had think “what is this world coming to?”. Every time we turn on the television, or read the internet, we find that another shooting has happened. I can only be thankful that it continues to shock and disgust me. I understand being frustrated and angry, but never to the point that I’d commit murder.

I can’t believe that his family hasn’t apologized for his actions, but rather continue to blame others for “pushing him too far”. I wonder why getting pushed to far didn’t mean he’d leave the area, or take his own life, instead of taking it out on others who were doing their job. I don’t know what the “personal harrassment” allegations were, but nothing deserved this type of response.

I grieve for the families that lost loved ones last night and continue to hold those injured in my thoughts so that they may recover.

How many posters here will express prayers and sympathy and then step out the door and treat everyone they encounter like dirt?

I wonder how many have noticed the prophetic timing of an offhand remark made by a St. Louis radio personality that occurred prior to the Kirkwood City Council shooting. The radio jock expressed resolving his frustrations with a regional utility in terms of getting on top of a building and shooting at random human targets. At the risk of stating the obvious, it appears U.S. society does frequently entertain the thought of turning to violence in confronting conflict resolution. The plot of several blockbuster movies typically include some level of violence where the story’s protagonist uses violence to resolve whatever issue is at play. This attitude of resolving conflict through violence is not only in popular culture either. The Bush administration’s insistence to enter into a bloody war in Iraq is a prime example that extends to the pinnacle of our society when it comes to how we address conflict resolution. As sad as the Kirkwood tragedy is, what is perhaps even sadder is how our society has become accustomed to news of such events.

First I would like to extend my deepest sympathy to the community of Kirkwood, the families and friends of the deceased and injured and also to the police department for another senseless act. I would also like to extend my sympathy to those responding firefighters and medics. Again, you had to respond to treat your friends, something no medical person should have to do. Thank god for you!
Second, I would like to express my deepest sympathy for the extremely disturbed people who not only think but express some kind of justification for this action. You can thank yourselves and others like you for the complete mess that the world has become and continues to become. It amazes me how many people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and the actions of their loved ones. The fact that this man’s family really believes this is justifiable or that someone “pushed” him into this. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? I was under the notition that we were accountable for our actions, silly me, I guess I was trying to pretend we are educated civilized people. Perhaps instead of trying to “justify” these actions, we should just admit that a man, whom was very involved and known within this community, whom no one has said a single bad thing about, slipped. He allowed this situation to get the best of him. Then perhaps we can mourn the loss of his life too. Point the finger of blame where it belongs, “Cookie” killed several people yesterday, HE changed the lives of all of the families, friends and co-workers of everyone involved. HE took himself away from his family and friends. COOKIE did this. After that fact is accepted, the entire community, families and friends of EVERYONE involved can try to pull together and begin to heal. Let’s try not to make this into something it clearly is not. And above all, can we please stop making excuses. God bless all the loved ones of everyone involved, including Cookies family, while I hold him accountable, I also recognize he too is loved by family and friends.

My deepest sympathy and heart felt pain go to all the families of the victims, I want to wave a wand and undo this terrible happening but it can’t be fixed. So Sorry.

My sympathy goes expecially to Cathy Yost and her two sons.
Cathy I feel your pain but I know your strength, please feel free to contact me at 314-918-7865, if you need support, Carolyn J. Manning (Lininger) LCSW, a friend from the past. Take care.

I agree with Jack above: It’s expressed that violence is never the answer except when the people you’re killing are in another country and your government or corporations wants those people’s resources.

My deepest sympathy’s go out to the City of Kirkwood and the families of all the slain city officials. I grew up in Kirkwood and and it was a wonder town to live in. I no longer live in that area, but will always think of Kirkwood as my hometown. You are all in my thoughts and prayers. But only with prayer and God’s comforting hand can you get through this most difficult time. You will forever be in my heart!! God Bless!

My prayers and condolences for all people involved in this horrible tragedy. Here are my thought about the safety of the council meetings. They had a police officer present and the doors were probably posted as a gun free zone. I’m not sure much more could have been done. The signs not allowing the carrying of weapons in the building(by legally licensed individuals) takes away any chance that a person could have defended themselves. We all know that the sick people of this world do not follow the rules.

I am a Kirkwood High School alumni. Three fellow alumni lost a parent tonight. It is beyond tragic. My love and thoughts go out to all the families and friends hurting right now.

RIP people
And gun freaks, you better start controlling weapon access better to avoid more issues like this. Enough is enough. Not all gun wielders are criminals like you say. Do you beat your wife, cheat on your taxes, etc, etc. Then you are a criminal too, yet YOU want guns to ease your fears. Let the other guy drop his first. Shear insanity.
Media…I watched channel 5 for several hours last night and the suburbanites could only say how safe their community was. An isolated crazy mind snapping. I am glad you did not fan racial problems, but a stark contrast when I went to channel 4. There they sent a reporter to get Meacham Park residents opinions. There the obvious problems were not swept under the rug, but talked about honestly. All I ask is that you leave ALL AREAS as peaceful as you can. In many other areas that don’t “belong to you”, you fan and leave racial tensions for your stories. Just think and treat every area as you would your own. It is SOMEBODY’S home. And I would ask politicians to set egos aside and treat people right. I jave seen a LOT or arrogance in some meetings towards the taxpayers. Hopefully Cookie is at peace now.

As someone who is close to this tragedy, I am saddended that our friends’ bodies were not even cold before people speculated that this was driven by race and discrimination.

Police have not even released the information (as of 9:30am), but people are already putting their own spin and agenda on the backs of the fallen victims and the perpetrator.

This is not racial. Many white people were on the news speaking about how much they loved Cookie. Many African Americans were praying at the scene of the murders. This is about one person’s actions, not neighborhoods, races, or bank accounts.

Blaming this on a city government for not recognizing that Cookie needed help, as has been stated in these blogs is inflamatory. That is not the government’s responsibility. I suspect if the “government” had sent someone to haul Cookie off for examination, there would be lawsuits and protests.

I am deeply saddened and still in shock to what happened last night. While praying for the fallen victims and the family that they left behind, I was crying and my kids (5 & 4 yr. olds) told me not to cry. It’s hard to explain to them, how much more to the families of the victims. May God give them the strength and courage on this very tragic moment of their lives.

First, my deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those killed.

“And also talk about how you think meetings for public bodies like the Kirkwood City Council can be made safer without limiting the access to the public that is what democracy is all about.”

Last night, at the same time Charles Thorton decided to use his gun to make his point, in a thousand other communities, council meetings were held without incident. Demanding some way to make council meetings safer because of this event is little different than asking what can we do to make Lane Bryant stores safer, after the recent killings at a Lane Bryant store near Chicago.

I could bring up changes we can make as a society, but this is also a sympathy thread, and such discussions would only trigger acrimonious debate not appropriate among the expressions of sympathy.

My heart goes out to everyone in Kirkwood, especially the victim’s families. I grew up in Kirkwood and miss it deeply now that I live in Colorado. You are a great town and you will recover!

Gun permits do not make a safe gun owner. Police officers train heavily, yet they are still regulated weapon wise. Do you really think citizen idiots carrying guns make a situation like that better? Come on now! Lets hope thoughts don’t swing that way, or you will actually put more people in danger. Bubba ain’t the law…bubba ain’t the law unless he is sworn and willing to take the heat of a situation gone bad. Idiotos carry and lose their guns daily for kids to pick up! They leave them in cars when they visit the strip clubs and they get stolen. Bubba won’t report the truth because he doesn’t want wifey to grab his nads. Bubba puts a gun under his pillow and the kids get it when his hangover makes him forget where he left it. Bubba and Mrs Bubba don’t rrealize their kiddies store weapon caches in their home. That’s where guns come from. Metal detectors maybe, guns held by citizens in meeteings…a bad idea. Don’t let the fearful lead you into worse.

Apologies, should have been “Thornton” not “Thorton”.

I think what eats at people like that gunamn is that big developers get treated nicely, they can steal homes and gov’ment overlooks big violations while screwing way too much with the little guy for lesser infractions. You’ll have more of this as eminent domain becomes more aggressive and taexs rise until people feel they are losing all. Get ready.

As an ex Kirkwood resident my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those who lost their lives last evening at City Hall. This is a senseless act by a senseless man and many are and will continue to suffer due to the choice he made. What a shame that anyone would try to justify the actions of taking a life in the name of revenge. It is apparent that Mr. Thornton had many issues with the city and others and felt he wasn’t given his due process. It is also apparent that he was. To the extent that the mayor chose to allow him to continue to attend public meetings when the easy solution would be to deny him access. The mayor felt that the right thing to do would be to allow the process of democracy to be followed. People may say the city targeted Mr. Thornton and forced him onto this action but by continually ignoring the laws of the city he brought more attention to himself. We are all responsible for our actions and ultimately he will answer to his God. It is just such a shame he took others with him……

Admitting there are still problems in Kirkwood is not bad. The african americans you see at the site today are those who live near there, and/or are trying to keep tensions down and keep the peace. Reactionaries do exist, racial tensions still exist there. To deny it is sticking your head in the sand. We know ostriches walk around with sunburned butt cheeks. Acknowledge and deal. I am just proud of those not fanning the flames. I am not proud of those denying there is a problem. They still talk of Meacham Park as not being the same as Kirkwood.

My deepest sympathy for the families and the victims of this tragety.

One thing that goes through my head after hearing about this is safety of employees and elected officials at several smaller municipalities throughout st. louis. I worked at a municipality in st. charles county and they have consistently refused to implement any safety measures at city hall (not even security cameras) against this kind of thing. They always stated the cost outweighed the benefiet of security. They do, however, on occasion have an officer attend their meetings in case there is trouble. I am curious to see if their stance on this changes now that the elected officials see that their lives may be also be in danger and not just the employees, which they seem to care about very little.

The mother sounds like she is defending him, saying he was provoked by the city.

“No one should kill,” she said. “But people shouldn’t drive people to kill.”

Good lord, how can any decent person say that? If someone angers you, go ahead and kill them? And any innocent law enforcement/journalists/ citizens who may be in the way?

This is insanity.

As a former police officer, no words can express the sadness of last nights events. I would like the readers to remember something, however. I was involved in something similar in 2003. It is vitally important to remember that the pain and suffering the victims families are going through is only the beginning - as well as the entire City of Kirkwood. Our police department and city was almost destroyed emotionally. Our chief eventually resigned, officers resigned, and the emotional devistation of our incident lasted several years. You would think that the city would have received longterm psychological help. That isn’t the case in real life. After the funerals, the press went away, and business went on; we the victims and victims families were left “holding our own emotional baggage.” Law enforcement are proud people. If we do get help down the road, we are sometimes viewed as too fragile to handle our jobs. You need to remember that the emotional longterm affects of this disaster will “finally kick in” within the next two to three years down the road. The effects of Post Traumatic Disorders are devestating long term. Please stay in touch with everyone who are the survivors of this; the Chief, his officers, city council, everyone. Nice to erect a monument in their memory. But you need to rally around everyone for the long haul. They need you now. They need you in the future. God Bless the City of Kirkwood. You are in my prayers.

May healing come to this heart broken community use your strength in community and faith to come together at this very sad time. There are know answers to why this man acted out in this horrific manner. Find strength in numbers.

In reaction to 119’s comment about denying racial tensions…

I am INTIMATELY familiar with Meachum Park, was at each vigil IN the Park after Bill was killed there, live in a predominately black neighborhood, and teach in a black, city school. I am no stranger to racial tensions.

I am very upset that an event that came out of one man’s psychosis, directed at representatives of the city he felt slighted by…is being used to advance people’s racial tension.

He did not kill them because they were white. They did not enforce the laws he was repeatedly ignoring and breaking because he was black.

If a white guy went in and blew away a bunch of African Americans he felt were treating him unfairly, what story would we be blogging about?

My deepest sympathy to the familes of the innocent victims - public servants who were gunned down ruthlessly. They chose to take the high road in the dispute, even though they feared for their safety. They, and their families, have my prayers and my respect. Also praying for the residents of the beautiful community of Kirkwood.

Our thoughts and prayers are with all the good people of Kirkwood and especially with the families of those who were killed. We are so sorry for your loss. May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

My heart goes out to those that lost a loved one last night. Hearts throughout Missouri will be praying for you and your families. Six lives were cut short by a mad man. For the mother of Thorton to say “they must have pushed him too far”, please realize your son is the one that is costing everyone pain. He shot and killed 6 people. People who were trying to make your neighborhood a better place. These people did not deserve this and their families will forever be changed because of the actions of a mad man who killed because he didn’t get his way.

Fox 2 News Elliot Davis just showed his interviews with the mother and brother of “Cookie” Thornton. I am outraged!!! They both said it was justified!!!And that he had to go to war…………..what is wrong with these people??? They have showed no remorse for the actions of this family matter. Just another example of how a person can justify anything and turn it around on innocent people. People need to pray for everyone involved in this. God speed to the victims.

My condolences and thoughts for all who were affected by this senseless act of violence…the slain, the wounded, the families of the victims, the residents of Kirkwood. I just can’t imagine how difficult it will be for the city to pull itself together and conduct the daily business that needs to be conducted to keep the city operational. How do you move on from such a debacle? I don’t even live in Kirkwood and I’m still in shock.

I don’t know what can be done in the name of security at city council meetings. By their very nature, such meetings are open to all citizens in the community. Would a metal detector have made any difference? I doubt it. By the time someone tried to stop the gunman from entering, he would have already shot said guard and still come in shooting. Every community has its political infighting. Every community has its malcontents. But who would have thought it could come to this? All these people were trying to do was to serve the community….

Kris, your liberal credentials are established by your post. So chill. It is not advancing racial tensions to talk about those that still exist. Brushing them over is wrong, making them worse is wrong. Folks are trying to strike a balance. Those who organize each day in the community that they have lived in for years anyway. They were glad to get a chance to talk about what still exists without supporting what Cookie did. His family hurts and they will say what they may not really feel right now. Just as the cops’ buds will be saying things they don’t mean right now. We can’t judge what is best for folks to do in the aftermath of this. The easy access to weaponry is the problem. Always has been, always will be. Hopefully, this will lead to talks of all kinds for the good of ALL area residents.

To all the friends and family of the victims of the City of Kirkwood Tragedy my thoughts and prayers are with you. I especially want to extend my deepest sympathy to Office Tom Ballmann’s friends and family. I had the honor of working with Officer Ballmann when he was a Corrections Officer for the St. Charles County DOC. He was a man of great integrity, loyalty, dedication, and a committed officer. He served his country and community with pride and was highly respected amongs his peers. He wil be greatly missed and my love and respect goes out to all. It is a sad day in the history of Kirkwood. My God comfort all during this time of grieving.

Like everyone in the entire region, I am sickened and saddened by the tragic event that occurred last evening in Kirkwood.
To the family and friends of those killed and injured, our collective continued prayers of support and condolences go out to you.
This senseless act carried out by a deeply troubled individual, should make us all more vigilante and aware that this could happen in any community.
It is an awful way to bring attention to troubled people within our communities, and I in no way condone this man’s actions regardless of his state of mind.
However we need to be more aware of people with issues and reach out to them with help & understanding before this happens again.

My heartfelt sympathies are extended to the families of the victims of this tragedy. We moved away from Kirkwood in 2005 after living there for 17 years. Our children went to school there, and we felt so lucky to be a part of such a wonderful community. We stiil miss it, and know what a special and unique place it is. Kirkwood will survive this, and continue to be a strong community. God bless Kirkwood.

I am speaking of bloggers, radio callers, etc who I have read here and other places trying to DIVIDE people among racial lines…in an event which has nothing more to do with race other than the color of the victims and the shooter.

I will chill when my family’s friends and co workers like Mac, Tom, and Bill are not ruthlessly murdered. I will chill when I know my father won’t have to notify their families, and I will chill when I don’t have to watch the families stumble out of their homes crying.

My sincerest condolences go to all of those who knew the victims of this dreadful shooting. I attended MCC a number of years ago and I have a relative on the Kirkwood police force. I know how difficult it was when they lost their brother 2 1/2 years ago, and now this. A democracy depends on all citizens doing what is right and this shooter obviously felt he was above the law. This is what happens when we fail to teach our children to accept personal responsibility. In an extreme example such as this, everyone loses.

I know what Christ taught about forgiveness, but still–when I pray for the victims–the shooter and his family will not be at the top of my mind. But I will pray that the survivors heal from this deep wound and that they in time are able to forgive, for the sake of their own souls!

Such a tragedy. Our hearts, prayers, and sympathy goes out to all those who lost a family member, friend or community leader. God help us all when a crime such as this becomes someone’s “solution” to their problems.

Sometimes the way is lonely
And steep and filled with pain
So if your sky is dark and pours the rain, then
Cry to Jesus
Cry to Jesus
Cry to Jesus and live!

My sympathies to everyone affected by this tragedy. I knew Officer Tom Ballman well. He was my next door neighbour and best friend for the first 18 years of my life. He was a genuine and good person who served his community and his country with honor. My heart goes out to his wife, 2 children, and the rest of his family who have been devastated by the senseless act. You are all in my prayers.

First and foremost, my prayers are with the families for their lost.
I am not excusing Mr. Thorthon actions, but we do not know what the City of Kirkwood was putting him through. When one is pushed into a corner, they will come out fighting. From my undrerstanding this has been a very stressful few years for this gentleman. The City of Kirkwood has to begin to heal, and know that they have to treat everyone with respect reguardless of their ethnic background. I do know for a fact the Kirkwood id divided into two sections, Kirkwood and Memchem Park. Their is alot of injustice going on out there, and it is time for them to make changes…..or I am sure they will contine to have problems.

I am holding the residents of Kirkwood gently in the quiet of my heart and I pray for the families of those who were murdered last night. I also pray for our country to be healed of the violence that is permeating our society.

My sympathy goes out to all the victims and their families. Such a horrible tragedy.

But to read comments that the shooter was “pushed to it” - horse manure! Millions and millions of people live in communities where they don’t always get their way and feel they have a gripe. It is NEVER an excuse to kill. “Oppressed” - baloney!!

Life isn’t always “fair” - I deal with unfairness many times in any given year. But I don’t pick up a gun and shoot people.

He didn’t understand the court systems?? Good thing he won’t have to stand trial for his MURDERS!

I am an ex Kirkwood police officer, currently working for St. Louis County. This is such a lost for our community. I worked with both Tom Ballman and Sgt. Biggs, what wonderful people and fellow officers. I will never forget the story that Sgt. Biggs told me about inviting the Marine Corp. recruiter over to his house for his son. In the past 3 years I have lost 4 fellow officers/friends. All from Kirkwood and one from St. Louis City that being Officer Reggie Williams. I must say that it was extremely hard to put on this uniform this morning. Chief Plummer has alway’s expressed a family atmosphere at the Kirkwood Police Department. My heart is extremely heavy for my Kirkwood family. Sgt. Biggs, P.O. Ballman and other Kirkwood family members, you are in a much better place, and that I know is Heaven. May God continue to watch over you and the entire Kirkwood family.

Deepest sympathies to the families of those slain last night in Kirkwood. Many prayers are being offered for peace and healing.

I am a Kirkwood resident and very saddened about this incident . My heart goes out to all of the families . Lets all prayed for healing for everyone in the Kirkwood community.

Another reminder: This thread is about condolences and issues. Racist remarks, name-calling and personal attacks will be removed just as fast I can see them.

What pushes a man to the point that he would risk his own life ? To say,…Im going to forget about my wife ,my daughter, everything that Ive built over a lifetime? What got this man to the point that he had to pursue such a violent conclusion?
I want there to be the type of investigation into this ENTIRE affair that is given to most horriffic crimes..and I hope the knee-jerk reaction will be more restrictions on local Governments to harrass people. Granted .this is NOT the way to deal with your problems..and im cleary think ing that Mr.”Cookie” got what he had coming to him…but as with many cases and ones from recent memory,…(megan meier ) weve found that people can be “pushed” to these types of things and It is usually the result of actions of others around them.

WE send our prayers to families and friends involved in this Kirkwood tragedy.
Several of us were meeting in a small group from Central Church in Clayton and we immediately stopped everything and began praying as soon as we recieved the phone call. We were acquainted with some of the persons thru different walks of life. Some live in Kirkwood and family attended the schools. Many prayers are being uplifted all over the St Louis areas and other states as they hear about the shootings. We offer our compassion ,support and prayers to all. 2b4u

Our hearts are sad here in Orlando, Florida this morning. To all the families we extend our sincerely sympathy to all those involved. May the Lord give you all peace.

Kirkwod is the most wonderful place to live, and my heart is breaking right now. My prayers and thoughts are with the families who have lost their loved ones.

STOP IT with all the nonsense about us needing to come together and heal and move beyond this…… blah blah! It’s all blather from insincere people. Having lived in St. Louis most of my life, I know what you people are like. You post here so you can get recognition as “Look at me, I’m being a good person again” but can’t wait to step out the door and step on someone’s neck. St. Louisan’s have to be some of the biggest hyprocrites and sorriest excuses I’ve met. You talk about healing but then wall yourselves off in your Chesterfield’s and Kirkwood’s to keep out the people you consider “dirty”. You never open your minds to alternative ways of thinking or looking at issues from both sides.

I am so sorry for all the victims and their families. My heart breaks for you all. This is crazy. There is NO EXCUSE for these killings. This man was not “oppressed.” He broke the law. As part of a civilized society, you obey the laws and if you don’t like them, you take action through civilized political and legal means. You don’t kill people!!!! Violence is NOT the answer to disputes about tickets and citations. It is disgusting that this man’s family is out there saying he was “driven” to do such a HORRIBLE thing, as if to justify it! SHAME ON THEM. There is no justification for this. They should be condeming his acts and apologizing to the families of the deceased. Life isn’t fair sometimes, but it does not give anyone the right to take anothers life!
Peace needs to start within our own communities. STOP THE KILLING.

I am visibly shaken as you are with what has happened in the City of Kirkwood. My heart goes out to the families of Mayor Michael Swoboda and Reporter Todd Smith. I pray for their speedy recovery!!!

My heart, emotions and deepest condolences goes out to the families of City Councilperson Connie Carr, City Councilperson Michael H.T. Lynch, Sergeant William Biggs, Officer Thomas Ballman and Public Works Director Kenneth Yost. This should have never happened. They are in my prayers as all of the residents of the City of Kirkwood are. I have shed many of a tear over the past 10-hours. I will keep you in my prayers.

I pray for healing, understanding, unity and compassion for each and every citizen of the City of Kirkwood and all of the City Employees. In public service, every one must be heard and be part of the process without violence.

Arnie C. Dienoff, City of Bellefontaine Neighbors, Missouri
ArnieDienoff@Yahoo.Com

My condolences to the families and co-workers of the murdered and injured victims. May God bless you in this difficult time.

Having done some business with the City in the past, it had been a pleasure in working with Mr. Yost and members of his staff. I feel deep sympathy for his family and he will be missed.

JC Corcoran’s ranting and raving about Blacks did not help this situation at all..The broadcast of this hostility towards blacks was broadcast all night on the news…and he only has a 2 week suspension and will not be fired or charged with anything..LUDRICROUS!!!

STOP the BLACK HATRED.

DON’T STAND FOR RADIO DISC JOCKEY’S public rants ABOUT TAKING PEOPLE OUT WITH AK-47’s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Thornton was clearly, in his mind, pushed to violence. But his was a sick, twisted, mind, not a normal one. We can’t excuse his crime. His problems prior to last night were of his own doing. You get a parking ticket, or a ticket for violation of a municipal ordinance, don’t do it again. By his own admission in the news stories, he’d accumulated over 150 tickets. He had to change his behavior, and he was clearly unwilling to do so.

I’m sure in his own mind, he felt he was a martyr for the oppressed. Instead, he took the path of a terrorist, killing innocents for his own purposes.

Rest in peace, all you victims and citizens of Kirkwood. You are the victims of a delusional man.

For ideas on how to prevent more of this in the future, how about bulletproof glass in council chambers? A rotten idea, but if we can protect gas station attendants and bank tellers, perhaps its’ time to protect our public officials the same way…..

Thom, please don’t compare Chesterfield to Kirkwood, a mixed diverse group. Chesterfield is a wonderful place so don’t compare it to Kirkwood.

I send my deepest sympathy from oklahoma

This defense of the killer because his is a black business owner is ridiculous. I am a white business owner in downtown St. Louis. I received a parking ticket from a black parking officer for driving my disabled client to my office. He laughed at me when I explained the situation. I later went to court to have the ticket thrown out and it was.

Driving my brother-in-law back to Mizzou, I was pulled over for speeding. The officer yelled at me to get out of the car and informed me I had a warrant issued from St. Louis City for my arrest (the city didn’t properly record that the ticket was dismissed). He was yelling at my wife to not get involved and I was treated completely unfairly. Fortunately she is an attorney so after the officer learned this I was not taken to jail. However, it was an extremely embarrassing situation for someone who has never had anything more than a speeding ticket.

When I got back to work I went to the city court and verbally raised hell. I talked to the mayor’s office and told them how disappointed I was to see how business owners like myself are treated by the city. Black license collectors have often just barged into my office without even knocking trying to strongarm me for money for license fees.

I have complained to the city but it has always fallen on deaf ears. However, I would never even consider taking the cowardly actions Cookie did, nor would I expect anyone else to justify it. Being a business owner, you have a great deal of responsibility. And being so, you are obligated to follow the rules and laws of society, whether you are black or white.

Well said, Ed (post #142) We lost some really good people in this senseless act.

Also good point, Ann (post #141)…let go of the ‘vicitim mentality’. It can take you all the way to the point of taking life!
My condolences to Kirkwood.

My thoughts & prayers are with the victims & their families. I am sickened by this horrible act of violence. I am furthur sickened by the comments of Mr. Thornton’s family members to Fox 2 News. There is no excuse for the horrible actions he took last night. To hear his mother refer to it as “an act of God” made my stomach turn. I believe there are reasonable, intelligent members of the Meacham Park community who are enraged at the actions taken by 2 of their community members in the last 3 years. I wish those people would stand up and speak up. I am sick of people hiding under the excuse of oppression and racism.

Although I now live near Houston, TX, (I grew up in the Maplewood area), I sit in horror as I read about this happening in such a peaceful town as Kirkwood. How anyone who references God in all he says can do something like this is beyond comprehension.
I convey my sincerest sympathies to the families, and friends of the victims, the citizens of Kirkwood, and the family of the man who caused this. With God’s help you’ll pull through.

It’s sad to think we’re at such a state in our world that every public place may need the same kind of security for entrance that we find at all of our airports. Metal detectors and physical searches may be the only answers to eliminating these massacres.

The entire Kirkwood Community is in our thoughts and prayers.

As news reports of the Kirkwood tragedy unfolded, many tried to make sense of what had happened, while some called for preventive measures to be put in place at all municipal council chambers. If Kirkwood had had metal detectors in place, many opined, this tragedy could have been avoided. Certainly, the level of carnage would have been lessened, though a metal detector would not have helped the unfortunate officer who was gunned down in the street.

That raises the issue of gun control, which inevitably attends senseless shootings. Some believe that if we eliminate guns we will eliminate or greatly reduce the frequency of these incidents. To that, I would remind you that a police officer’s weapon, which was not brought to the scene by the killer, was also used in the slayings.

There is a solution for reducing the likelihood of tragedies such as this. It does not involve invasive procedures for law-abiding citizens, nor does it infringe upon their constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Every municipal government currently has the capability to put this preventive measure into effect. It is simply this: pass into law a statute that governs behavior at city council meetings and put some teeth into it.

Under such a measure, the people would retain their constitutional rights to freely assemble and to redress grievances. They may attend, and even contend, with their city council. However, certain types of language and threatening behavior should be considered unlawful in the council chamber. You certainly wouldn’t be permitted to curse and scream, or demean and threaten the judge in a court of law. Furthermore, there are certain things that you can say or do in a shopping mall that you cannot say or do in an airport without being arrested and charged. Why should a city council meeting be any different? Offenders should risk the suspension of their right of attendance in much the same way that convicted lawbreakers are denied certain other rights enjoyed by law-abiding citizens. In addition, municipalities should place multiple guards in council chambers, appropriately armed with both lethal and non-lethal weapons, in order to keep the peace.

Though guns were the instruments of death and a deranged citizen was the self-appointed executioner, disbelief was at the center of this tragedy. The killer was a known rabble-rouser in the city of Kirkwood. The members of local law enforcement and the city council had contended with him on countless occasions and were well aware of his propensity for aggressive behavior … they evidently didn’t believe that it would ever escalate to this level. If there is a lessen to emerge from this tragedy it should be that local government should take seriously any and all open, aggressive behavior in public meetings. Offenders should be subdued, arrested, charged accordingly and, possibly, barred from future attendance in that public forum.

Local government does pick on people, and the elected and police feel that they are above the law. The LOCAL MEDIA is at FAULT HERE… The media should have been all over this and should have been helping this man in the injustice done here. Also the Federal Judge should be held accountable for not standing up for the shooter. This could have been avoided if the ELECTED DID NOT ABUSE THE CITIZEN…… I hope people hire attorneys and sue KIRKWOOD…………… I am not defending the shooter and am pointing out the problem.

I lived in Kirkwood for 20 years and went to KHS with Cookie. While I was not friends with him, I do remember him as a real pleasant guy. It’s too bad the mayor and council blew him off. Such a tragedy. Seeing Kirkwood on the tube makes me homesick for my Mom and Dad. I miss Imo’s pizza too.

My condolences to all of the families and to the Kirkwood community. As a former resident of Kirkwood, I have the highest regard for the police of the community. Several years ago when I lived there, I was awakened by a prowler on my front porch. He/she was probably scared away by my dog, but I called the police immediately, and the dispatcher stayed on the phone with me until police arrived–less than one minute later. The two officers checked in and around my home and promised to continue to patrol the area and keep watch throughout the night. They made me feel safe and secure, and I was able to sleep knowing that someone was watching out for me. I thank all police officers for their service, and send my sincerest thanks to the Kirkwood police and their families who support their work. Know that we love and thank you for what you do every day to protect people.

What a terrible tragedy. My condolences to the dear people people who lost their lives and their families. I will pray for all of their families to somehow draw comfort from their friends and neighbors. I hope angels wrap their arms around them with love and comfort.
I also hope that law enforcement looks into the family of the shooter. Their remarks seem to indicate to me that they knew what was about to occur and did not warn anyone. I feel the are accessories.
God Bless the fallens’ families

It hurts me, but doesn’t surprise me, to see these messages of condolence being overshadowed by the conversation about racism. As a many-year resident of Kirkwood who has also lived in many other communities (OK, I’m old), I don’t feel that Kirkwood is any more racist than any other place — on both sides. European-Americans assume that African-Americans are a certain way; African-Americans assume that everything done by European-Americans is a response to color; etc. Somtimes they’re right. Sometimes the stereotypes seem to fit and the exceptions become the rule. Was Cookie picked on because he wasn’t the right color? I don’t think so. Did Cookie shoot the councilmembers and the police because of their color? Only he would no. Kirkwood’s problems stem more from greed and too much growth too fast than they do from color issues. Meacham Park has been there as long, or longer, than Kirkwood. And when it was annexed, many of us — black and white — opposed annexation because we feared it would destroy the Meacham Park community, which was an important tie for many African-Americans. We were right. And most of Meacham is now underneath the parking lots of the discount stores between Lindbergh and I-44. It’s that greedy destruction of what was Meacham Park that has left a dirty taste in the mouth of many in our community. It’s that same greedy growth that towers over city hall from the former Target location across the street, or that greedy grab to tear down Kirkwood’s historic homes and replace them with half-a-million-dollar (or much more) homes that is destroying the fabric of what was once a true community. It’s more economics than it is racism. Did Mayor Mike Swoboda and his council play a big part in that. Sure. But shooting them is clearly not a rationale respose. Cookie was not happy with his treatment. Was it parking tickets? Was it the fact he wanted a bigger piece of the economic pie that is now Kirkwood? Don’t know. Could the Council have been nicer? Would they have been nicer if he was a white contractor? No one can really say what was going on for sure. But Cookie didn’t handle it well. Not in his constant harassment of the Council and certainly not in assassinating 5 individuals last night. Regardless of the reason for the bad feelings between the Mayor and Cookie, last night was WRONG. What is important her is six families losing someone they loved and a community losing, once more, a huge piece of itself. We can’t come back together if we let this situation divide us more.

I am so sorry to hear about the tragic shootings in Kirkwood. I was born in Kirkwood, at St. Joe’s Hospital, before my family moved to North Carolina when I was eight years old. I will keep the victims’ families in my prayers, and pray for quick healing and recovery for the survivors. It also saddens me that my otherwise wonderful hometown has, for the second time in 13 months (Micheal Devlin case) been negatively thrust into the national spotlight.

Lets not forget the greedy Kirkwood officials who incorporated Meacham Park into their city just so they could claim emminent domain on half of it to build a walmart. Since St Louis County stopped patrolling Meacham Park Kirkwood has had four officers killed. But look at all the extra tax revenue they got from the shopping center huh? And how can you give a man 20,000 dollars in tickets and fines and then be shocked when he snaps? You try to put a man out of business and many of them will do desperate things. Theres plenty of blame to go around on both sides of this issue.

So now this tragedy is the media’s fault? (post 164)

This mass murderer “didn’t handle it well”? (post 168)

It’s amazing to read these comments, how so many people are actually defending and trying to somehow justify this selfish, murdering thug.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those slain. I watched in horror hearing the family members of “cookie” defend his actions saying he was pushed to the brink. Please go tell the wives, the sons, the daughters, the husbands, all of the relatives of his victims that because he was issued parking tickets and code violations that he did not feel he was responsible for, he killed their loved ones. You, COOKIE, are not above any laws. DO NOT PARK there, it’s easy. You should have been towed, or locked up for not following city rules. As long as we allow the self-proceived “pursicuted” to cry out and argue basic laws..we will always have these turnouts. You were a trouble maker and should have been removed from the public long ago. And because you weren’t, the innocent pay. Inexcusable. Again, my thoughts are prayers are with the community of Kirkwood, and the families that have lost their loved ones due to the selfish acts of another troublemaker.

How dare people blame anyone but Cookie in this situation. I like many of us have had issues with police and government in the past, and I think there are many ‘bad apples’ with power trips that sour their reputation. However, this would never justify murdering them or anyone in cold blood. I’m sure if the residents of Meacham Park banded together and held a peaceful protest of police treatment they would get much further with their message than this murderous rampage. Violence begets violence.

Inequalities, racial profiling, segregation, etc. I hope these are not mentioned in any other posts. This is pure ignorance and if someone is going to throw all this out there and say this is the reason for violence today, you need to open your eyes. No matter how bad things are, no matter how badly you are treated, there is NOTHING that says that is reason enough to kill innocent people! NOTHING! No one put that gun in his hand. My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families, and the city of Kirkwood.

Never take anything for granted, you never know if you will be here tomorrow.

It is with a heavy heart that we read about yet another officer and citizen shooting. My heart goes out to the families of those slain in this senseless act. I knew Bill Biggs and knew what kind of person he was. May they all rest in peace.

What a sorrowful day. I now live in the metro area of Washington, D.C. but I grew up in Kirkwood and graduated from Kirkwood High in 1977. My mother and brother still live in Kirkwood. These places I see on CNN are the places I walked as played as a child. My father would take me with him to City Hall when he paid the phone bill or the gas bill. My heart and prayers go out to all touched by this terrible tragedy.

My deepest sympathies to the families of those who were gunned down doing his/her job. It is a sad world that we live in…everyone seems to make excuses for the Thorntons, Harris’, Klebold’s and Chos of the world. There is no excuse for loading your gun with “justice” seeking bullets.

Heal quickly Kirkwood.

My prayers are with each and every person touched by this horrible event. I pray that you will quickly come to that time when the happy and loving memories out weigh the pain. That time will come.

My thoughts and sympathies go out to the victim’s families and friends.

I used to live in Kirkwood, wonderful town with wonderful people. This tragedy is beyond thinkably sad. God bless you, your loss…….. may you find the strength and courage to heal.

My heartfelt sympathy and prayers for the police officers and Kirkwood officials who were senselessly killed and for the mayor and news reporter injured and for all of their families. May it bring some comfort to know that so many people across the country care. It is obvious that the killer was mentally ill and after hearing what his mother and brother have to say it is obvious that they are also. I hope they get the help they need. I lived in the area for 13 years and loved Kirkwood

I once called Kirkwood home…many dear memories…my heart breaks for the people of Kirkwood for their loss. Our thoughts & prayers are with you. Stay strong

With Deepest Sympathy

Tanya Womack O’Connor

This is so dreadful it is dumbfounding. I have no answers, only thoughts for the victims and their families. May our police and others be safe. God bless.

Let’s get one thing straight: This man did this horrible deed out of the evil of his own twisted soul, not because he “snapped” or was “driven to it” by anyone. It sickens me terribly that his family completely absolves him of any personal blame for his heinous crime and instead seems to blame society or government. Nothing justifies mass murder like this. Nothing. The real victims are the dead people and their families, not this killer. My prayers are with the victims and their families and the good citizens of Kirkwood. May God help us whenever we start justifying cold blooded slaughter.

Am i the only one who is goin to ask whats next? pizza companys will no longer deliver to meachum park, and offiicer was gunned done and the neihborhood turned a bilnd eye. now this. what is next?

Post 171…. No person is defending the killer, my post just puts some of the blame where the blame should be placed. The city should have not played games with the man and the media should have brought this to the publics eyes. The local media in this town loves covering death and crime in the news and never seem to help defend its viewers/citizens with just causes. This man was abused by the ELECTED and city employees. The media in this town are cowards and will not point of problems with local government. The media wants the feel good school district/ local government news so that’s why it’s not reported.

I am sickened at this tragedy. My deepest sympathies and condolences to all the families and friends who are left dealing with the aftermath and loss.

While I do not consider myself a proponent of gun control on any level, I am left wondering what are we to do when the headlines scream daily of the random acts of violence occurring with handguns?!?!

The family of the shooter should be ashamed for their reactions; hopefully, they attend a church where someone can explain that the actions of “Cookie” were in no way appropriate for what he felt were wrongdoings by the city council.

I continue to hope for a full recovery for the mayor, and healing as can best be achieved by the City of Kirkwood as well as the surrounding communities for all the losses they have suffered in the past few years.

Saint Louis Citizen, you are really stretching it. Enforcing laws and zoning regulations is not “abuse” or “playing games”. The rules apply to everyone, and I am tired of folks who think that means “Yes, everyone except me”. Where would society be without the rule of law?

The blame for these killings rests with Mr. Thornton alone. Not the city of Kirkwood, not “the media” that your ilk likes to blame for everything. Not the men and women who died defending their community or working for it. Just Mr. Thornton.

The lives that were lost is a true tragedy, these were our police officers and city council members that served and dedicated themselves to a community they felt so passionately about. My thoughts, prayers and sympathy go out to everyone that has felt this senseless crime.

It is so difficult to comprehend what happened last night at Kirkwood’s City Hall. As a society with instant news media, we are bombarded with horror and we have become numb to such senseless, tragic events. Witness today’s shootings in Louisiana. I don’t know anyone involved in the Louisiana shootings and like most people, I just shake my head, pray for the victims and go about my daily life. But the Kirkwood shooting… I graduated from KHS in 1975. Cookie Thornton was a friend and we were teammates on the track team. I can still remember watching him win the state championship in the triple jump. He always had a smile, a terrific competitor, and someone fun to be with. I last saw him about ten years ago at the Turkey Day game., same smile and friendly greeting. And now this… I can only imagine the incredible shock, anger and sadness being felt by relatives, friends and the community. I have been shaking my head all day - my heart still belongs to Kirkwood - and I will pray longer and harder for the victims and their loved ones. What I can’t do is connect my friend, Cookie, to the “gunman.” God save us all…

Post 187: Why do you assume he was abused by city officials? He had 150 tickets, did you know that? He’d been rude and obnoxious in other city meetings, did you know that? And still they let him have his rights as a citizen to attend and express his views. Now those public officials have paid with their lives. By him killing those people, this man attacked ALL our rights as free citizens. He declared himself above the law, and quite frankly that’s the problem with our society: Too many people declare themselves to be above every law except their own. Anarchy will be the natural end result if we don’t all wake up and start denouncing people who use violence to get their way? And did he, in the end, get anything? No. Just death. And he left a legacy of agony and horror that will never be erased.

Connie Karr was my friend. Words cannot begin to describe how senseless an act this man committed. My prayers are with all the families and friends of the victims.

Is it too much to ask that people quit throwing bouquets at a mass murderer? I don’t care if he was nice to you, I don’t care that he had a nice smile - HE KILLED 5 PEOPLE!!! I’m sure that OJ and Charles Manson had pleasant discourse with others at times too.

You want to say something nice about someone? How about the 3 public servants and 2 police officers that were coldly murdered because someone felt he shouldn’t have to follow the laws of the City, the State, the Country or the Church.

My deepest sympathies go out to the families of all the victims of this tragic event. Having grown up in Kirkwood and with family still very active in the community there, I am heartsick at the devastating and completely unnecessary loss of life. Once we have all finished grieving, however, we need to take a hard look at what has happened to our town over the last decade. The truth is that the big money that came into the town’s coffers as a result of all the big box stores built on the south end of town off Big Bend has not been spread around evenly and the “gentrification”, or rather defacto destruction, of the (mostly African-American) community of Meecham Park is the dark underbelly of Kirkwood’s outward success. Certainly *nothing* can justify this kind of horrific violence, but only by understanding how our own actions (or lack thereof) in making sure that ALL members of our community are treated fairly regardless of their economic status or race, can we hope to avoid even greater tragedies in the future.

This tragic event has deeply touched and saddened all of us who work in municipal government. My deepest condolences to the families and friends of the victims and to the staff at the City of Kirkwood.

My condolences to everyone involved with this situation. Kirkwood is sure to grieve for a lifetime and further separate itself from the annexed MP. Thornton was completely responsible for his actions, however, I am sure that he was picked on unfairly. I’ve seen Swoboda in action at those meetings, and the mayor probably wouldn’t have let Mother Teresa herself speak for her entitled few short minutes. One can only hope that things will change for the better after the mourning period is over.

I am again going to appeal to all of you to keep the conversation about the condolences. This is not the forum for a back-and-forth debate.

My deepest apologies to the familes, friends and loved ones of the victims of last night’s shootings. My prayers are with all of you.

What happened last night is mind-boggling and disgusting and leaves a mark on Kirkwood and the City of St. Louis forever. The people of Kirkwood and St, Louis are strong, and will rise above this, just as we have before. It’s just sad that innocent people had to suffer due to one man’s instability.

When these type of things happen We need to look IN and not AROUND!!!!

The BOARD MOD for STLtoday should be fired… He is a puppet

STL Cit: OK. We hear you. I’m a puppet. Got it. Now, let’s get back on topic, OK?

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen

I knew Ken Yost and he was a wonderful guy. So is Mike Swoboda. Cookie Thornton was a well known fixture in Kirkwood. He started as a great guy with a lot of potential and everybody liked him. As he got older, life didn’t turn out the way he thought it would - he needed to blame someone and became obsessed that it was the city’s fault. He was given hundreds of chances to speak at meetings and voice his opinions. The city bent over backwards to accomodate him - but obviously his mental state was very delicate and he went over the edge. He is now known as a mass murderer. So don’t tell me that “communities need to listen more…” and crap like that. Or that blacks in Meacham Park get treated differently from whites - if anything, this man was treated too leniently and given too many chances. This was not a racism case - This man murdered five innocent people - probably because the city listened TOO MUCH to him - he should have been banned from any city function or meeting. Instead, people didn’t want to stifle his complaints. Now we know what that led to. I am angry that he was able to kill a wonderful guy like Ken and a caring mother like Connie. And Mike - who always listened to anyone who called him or stopped him to complain, to compliment, to talk.

What a terrible event. Even beyond the event itself, the senseless murders, the attack and some of the reactions to it seem to point to a deep divide among us, over which the conventions of society create but a thin veneer. That the assailant’s family (and some posters here) thought the attack in any way justified shows such an unfathomable disconnect. How can we begin to address it?

My prayers and the prayers of Rolling Hills Presbyterian Church in Overland Park, Kansas are with the City of Kirkwood. May God’s grace, mercy and peace surround and fill every person and comfort each one who lost a loved one or friend.
Andy Cullen, former Interim Pastor of the First Presbyterian Church of Kirkwood.

My sympathies go out to all the victims involved and to their family/friends. My wife and I found ourselves weeping over all of this and would like to do anything we can for the families/friends of the victims. I went to the police academy with Tom Ballman so I know after spending a year of my life with him, he was a decent person, as I’m sure were the rest of the victims. I understand that nothing we, or anyone for that matter says or does will fill the void that the families have, but I know from experience that any support helps. You are all in our prayers, god bless you, Bruce Flowers.

My prayers go out to the families of Tom, Bill, and Ken and the other that killed, injured, and witnessed this horrific event. These are good people doing their jobs. There is no excuse for this tragedy. People need to learn other ways of dealing with disputes. I wish they would stop touting Mr. Thornton as a sweet, nice person. Nice people pay thier taxes and abide by the law. He did not. His insanity has hurt uncountable numbers of people.

As a resident of Kirkwood, I find it difficult to read posts scrutinizing the amount of security present at the council meeting. Unless you live in Kirkwood and are familiar with the residents and the area, then I do not believe anyone has any say on behalf of what level of security a public meeting needs. It was a normal city council meeting. Forgive me, but since when did we need an army of police officers for protection? We don’t. Two to three officers is around the normal mean present at a city council meeting, as other police officers are conducting their jobs somewhere else in town. This isn’t downtown St. Louis, or in the slums where we have drive-by shootings or homicides on a daily basis. It’s a quite, affluent suburban area. Despite what others heard on the news in the past, Kirkwood is a safe and wonderful place. We are unfortunate to have a certain area of town where crime is most prevalent, but never has it struck the heart of downtown or the schools. So please, regress your comments about the level of security. Thornton broke the law, personally chose not to pay the fines, and instead let his rage and hatred ruin his life and severely damage the lives of others. No one can predict when someone is about to crack and go on a killing spree (we don’t have our own criminal psycho-analysis on call), or is the city itself allowed to place restraining orders against someone who has residential membership as a means of keeping him away from city meetings. The city and police officers did the best they could to prevent something like this from happening, and in return sacrificed their lives in the name of protecting the city. Have some respect.

I was just devastated to hear the news about the killings in Kirkwood. I live in Webster Groves, a nearby city. I have been amazed about how many people have been praising the killer on talk radio. Many people have said that in Kirkwood, all are part of a large family. However, I would like to hear some sympathy for the families of the people killed in this madman’s murderous spree. No matter how nice this killer was, something snapped and he thought he could solve his problems by taking matters into his own hands. I would like to offer my deepest condolences to the families of the murdered and injured. My prayers are with them.

My heart breaks for everyone’s friend Cathy Yost and her son…please pray for them. To the mayor, his family and the families of the police officers and public servants, who are left suffering from this act of brutality, you are in my prayers. To those who witnessed this devastation, godspeed in your emotional recovery. Kirkwood is a tight-knit community and folks will most assuredly lean on each other to get through it.

Did Mr. Thornton have a concealed-carry permit for his weapon?
Perhaps Senator Gibbons could answer this, as I believe his was THE vote that enabled the overturning of Governor Holden’s veto of the concealed-carry law. All this, of course, despite the Missouri voters’ rejection of same AND Sen. Gibbons’ own district’s overwhelming vote against it…

Not that it would have made much difference in this instance, however.
Any handgun, concealed or not, would have led to the same unfortunate and tragic conclusion.

To Solomonkedar: I am sorry that you have such a skewed view of what happened. You were obviously not familiar with the situtation. Cookie Thornton was trying to destroy the community, not enhance it. He was a failed businessman due to his own failures, not because of anyone else. He was not our brother. He was a murderer and was clearly mentally unstable. He had absolutely nothing in common with you and you have no idea of what you speak.

Why does showing compassion for the killer take away from compassion for the victims? Are we still locked in an us vs them mentality that constantly has us dividing the world into good people and bad people - demanding vengeance instead of reconciliation and healing?

We are trapped in an individualist mode of thinking that ignores the fact that we are all here together. How many shootings were there this week? It is a disservice to the victims if we aren’t asking the larger questions about why “random gun violence” seems to be so prevalent in this country. Asking questions about disconnection in our communities, about legacies of abuse, about the availability of mental health services, mediation services Asking questions about the availability of guns.

Asking these questions does NOT say “It’s not Cookie’s fault, it’s society’s fault”. It isn’t about assigning blame in one place so that the blame can be taken away from another place. Asking these questions is about what would make someone, recognized by many as kind and gentle, commit this heinous and terrible act. What about the woman in LA? The shooter in the mall?

You can focus on the perpertrators of these actions all you want, but I promise you, if we as a society, as a community, can’t ask the larger questions, there will be more innocent lives taken in the future.

The killers note said, “The truth will win out.” The truth is that it is never justified to kill anyone over traffic fines and penalties. To disagree with an earlier writer; I don’t think he felt ‘entitled’ to do anything he wanted to, I think he just ‘lost it’ and that he’s had adjustment problems for years and years. I just wish his family would of been able to stop this before it happened. It’s beyond sad.

I guess that as others are, we are searching and trying to comprehend how one person can become so violent and towards so many innocent people. It is all so unbelievable. To feel the need or “responsibility” to “set things right” because things are not going ‘your” way.
Unfortunately, not getting your way or being punished for violations is “Life”! But not everyone goes on a killing spree, because of their problems that they have encountered. They do not harm others because of their own problems. They try to deal with them and work with the people, not against them.
I am shocked that if the family was told by Cookie himself, that in so many words he was going out to seek “war” and stated “goodbye” to them in the same sentence, that his family, knowing the long ongoing troubles, did not call the city of Kirkwood and attempt to warn them of his coming. The “goodbye” should have raised a “red flag” of concern in regards to Cookie and others safety or lives.
It is just ALL so sad!!! So WRONG!

I agree with Tony, i have been were Cookie was and could have very well been pushed to that point, Once they find some one to pick on they beat in to the ground. I am sorry that so many lives were lost, I am sorry to the victims and there loved ones, i am sorry for the shooter and his loved ones. Maybe know they will take notice and stop with the crap all municapalities do to there residents

God bless all of the victims and their family members. Know that there are many praying for all of you right now. God bless Mr. Thornton’s family as well. They need our prayers as well. And, let’s remember to ask ourselves, ” Am I my brother/sister’s keeper”? YES, we are. God Bless.

My condolences to the families of all who were injured or killed, including the family of Cookie Thornton, whose grief must be compounded by shock and horror. His actions were brutal and tragic but we need to understand the pain that prompted his vigilantism. When the grief and shock begin to reside, let’s reach out and demonstrate commitment to community inclusive of all people in Kirkwood. It’s a terrible tragedy. For now, best wishes for grace and strength to all who struggle with the loss of a loved one.

May God Bless the Cookie Thornton family. Let’s not forget they are also victims.

Although the actions of this man were absolutely unexcusable, it was bound to happen eventually. The City of Kirkwood has been unfairly treating certain citizens for years and eventually someone crazy enough, wasn’t gonna take it anymore. I just hope this whole thing brings some investigation into the way Kirkwood is running it’s city. The fines and citations are ridiculous and they do seem to target the people whom they know can’t afford to pay the fines. I know that’s life and life isn’t fair but it’s also not fair to be fined base on your color or financial situation.

First I would like to offer my condolences to all in this terrible tragedy.

John said,
The mother sounds like she is defending him, saying he was provoked by the city.
“No one should kill,” she said. “But people shouldn’t drive people to kill.”
Good lord, how can any decent person say that? If someone angers you, go ahead and kill them? And any innocent law enforcement/journalists/ citizens who may be in the way?

This is insanity.
Comment by John — February 8th, 2008 at 10:10 am

Let me explain what insanity is John. Believing in two opposing ideas at the same time. Are we not at war and have killed thousands of people and innocent children? Did our country get started without fighting and killing? Think about it , our country was started over taxation not the killing of people. Then we wiped out hundreds of Indian cultures and at the same time we had slavery. Should you expect a person to just take anything you give them without maybe a risk of suffering some kind of recourse from them? The difference between real and superficial is the ability to understand something that hasn’t happened to you. Most people never understand until it happens to them. Unless one truly knows all the facts about what was done to this man to bring him to the point of committing these horrible acts and makes a comment is part of the problem. Anyone who makes a judgment purely on emotion is the problem. Anyone who skews the facts is the problem. The bottom line is this. Violence begets Violence. Hatred begets Hatred. Only compassion for both will heal.

Before many of you post invalid facts or assumptions regarding a situation that you have not followed over the years why don’t you get the story straight! Our local paper The Webster Kirkwood Times has covered Mr. Thorton in-depth for five years. Their stories/articles (see link below) were NOT written “after the fact” to try and validate a position but rather while the events were happening.

Take a moment and read them before you start blaming racism and government power for these tragic events and you’ll realize Mr. Thornton just didn’t like the law and decided to cry racism to get what he wanted. I was often embarassed for him as well as our community when I would see him picketing City Hall or other high traffic locations with signs that were both rude, obnoxious, and insulting. These signs usually targeted our Mayor directly but Mike still did not vote for a motion to prevent Mr. Thorton from having his voice heard. He didn’t want to deny his rights although Mr. Thorton denied five people the greatest right…that of life itself!

My office is a block away from Kirkwood City Hall and I was there last night when these terrible events unfolded. Initially I thought it might have been a terrorist event as the streets were swarming with more local, county and state police than I had ever seen even in a movie. It sickened me when I discovered it was associated with the zoning meeting as I knew that I would likely soon hear the names of vicitims that I would know.

Over the years I’ve regularly recieved help and advice regarding zoning matters and real estate issues from many wonderful Kirkwood city employees. I didn’t always get the answer I liked but I would always get the truth. Ken Yost in particular was a warm individual who did nothing but help others in a most professional and friendly manner. He was not out to get anyone and he was not on a power trip! He will be missed more than any of you will know.

I am irritated to see so many of you instantly jump on the racial band wagon. Mr. Thornton was a lifelong resident of Kirkwood and friends to many. Nobody was out to get him. But his behavior over the years verged on insanity and our council handled it professionally and were more fair with him than they should have been. I promise you that if he had been a rich white man from one of the more prominent areas of Kirkwood they would have come down even harder on him. We have zoning laws to protect our beautiful community and we all need to learn to live with them whether we like them or not as the purpose of government is to protect the communities’ interest, not one individual who doesn’t like the law.

Mr. Thornton murdered these fine people and race had nothing to do with it. Do your homework…read the events as they unfolded over the years and then comment:

Link to articles: http://websterkirkwoodtimes.com/Articles-i-2008-02-08-73940.113117_Prayer_Vigils_Held_Today.html

I just think it says a lot about a community that they allow large billboards advertsing alcohol, nicotine and gambling in the poorer part of the community, yet hassle a guy with a sign on his truck. It is mainly a class thing nowadays, with wealth more spread, but the other boogies of bias still exist. Construction isn’t easy right now. A few of the Kirkwood residents actually use truck signs to spot those they would like to hire. Most hope they will get a tax free deal. There are businesses unlicensed in Kirkwood that are known and have no problems with several tickets. They are connected, of the right class. Perhaps I will start posting them in public so you can finish the job of policing your Kirkwood businesses. The reporters last night who live there seemed more interested in touting their parochial connection to this horrid event. One kept babbling about what they would tell their kids. I suggest you tell them the truth. That there is a lot of good in the community, but it is also so self-absorbed a kidnapped child could live there for years without being noticed. And that the administration of the community need to give slack to a pressed taxpayers. Pressed taxpayers will become more common as more biased and bad political decisions keep being made. Those of a certain part of town seem to have to keep reaching…and reaching… and reaching out again. The old Yippie in me says stay non-violent, but take the boards from those billboards advertising bad substances to wipe out your class of people, and make signs advertising your businesses. Hang them proud and put them on your vehicles and work your asses off to pay taxes to your community with pride! And wait and see who gets tickets. Shove those tickets that make no sense to working people. And you call this a union town. Stay non-violent. Because he could not, Cookie did not leave the kind of legacy he could have. And that is the saddest part except for those who got hurt and lost their lives.
The 800 pound gorilla in the room is now wandering off because no one will look at him

I am so sick of hearing what a great person the killer was and how he was “pushed” to kill! In my mind the moment he murdered those people he erased any good qualities of his life and became a monster. He did not “go to war” he slaughtered innocent people and there is absolutely NO justification for it!!! I want to hear about the victim’s wonderful qualities and the fact that their friends and families have lost loved ones.

As someone with a loved one in law enforcement, this is very scary and hits very close to home. I have so much respect for our law enforcement officers and all civil service leaders. My thoughts are with the families of the vicitms and Mr. Cookie. Although he did a very terrible thing, his family is likely suffering as well. That shouldn’t be forgotten.

What an awful shame. What a horrible situation. As they say, ” All wounds will heal”.
RIP to all the victims.

My deepest sympathy is extended to all of the people effected by this horrible tragedy in Kirkwood. I have worked in Kirkwood and am from a St. Louis City Police family. What a waste of life this is. Sometimes people have to walk away from situations that cannot be resolved to their satisfaction. Killing is was and never will be the solution to any problem, no matter how tremendous the problem is. My family has been through the court system as victims in St. Louis County and the entire proceeding was unprofessional on the court’s part. Even though the perpetrator was found guilty, we were the ones that had to move away from a juvenile sex offender. Laws have to be changed, but without someone with influence on your side nothing can be accomplished if you don’t have the money for an attorney. The media and state government was where we found our help to change a Missouri state law for future victims.

I pray that God will comfort and heal the pain caused by this senseless act of violence. For the praying people who read this, please remember what Ephesians 6:12 says: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (NIV). Please pray for all the families that were impacted by this.

#228 here here

To #154-
What does JC have to do with this situation???? That statement does not belong here in my opinion!

I grew up in Glendale and Brentwood. Now I live in Ferguson where it is more diverse. People can co-exist anywhere until they snap.This could have been any race-not just African American. There are many different cultures here in St. Louis and this has never happened before. St. Louis is a great place to grow up and live. It is too bad that a few “bad”people are making Kirkwood look vile on the national news. I hope and pray that Kirkwood will heal from this. I know they can and will! People of Kirkwood stand up and be counted-these people did not die in vain.

My heart goes out to the kids-my father died when I was 14 years old and it is tough. But know that your parents are looking down on you.Just remember how much they loved you.

May God help you during this time of grief.

NOTE: For the evening, comments to the Talk of the Day will be moderated prior to publication. Please feel free to continue submitting comments, but they will not show up until I have a chance to review them. Thank you for participating.

In such a difficult time, we don’t have to choose between this or that explanation — something this terrible is complicated and getting through it will require us to work through that complexity. Was it a story of one “crazy person” or a “failed community” or an issue of gun access — why do we have to fight over picking just one? Most things in life, including such terrible things, have multiple causes and, thus, multiple opportunities for future change and growth and prevention.

Yes, this story involves a very troubled person who made a terrible decision and committed an unjustifiable act. And yes, we have to look at our community honestly and see how we may need to create more connections and communication between each us to prevent alienation. And yes, we need to have more resources for those who are troubled and mentally ill before tragedy strikes. And yes, a gun makes it very easy for a bad decision to bring about many terrible deaths very quickly. These and many more are opportunities for reflection and learning. Life isn’t so simple — we must assess this realistically and in all its complexity, as we grieve.

So much anger! So much hatred! Six people are dead. Five murdered by one man. It doesn’t matter who was black and who was white. An entire community is wounded and grieving. Pray for the victims. Pray for their families. Pray for all of us. God forgive our hatred of our neighbors. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Cookie didn’t. Cookie was wrong. Are you going to let more hatred destroy Kirkwood. Don’t run from Kirkwood. This community can be better. We all know that. Heal Kirkwood! It’s up to you.

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims, families, and friends as they deal with this tragedy. My father retired from KPD. We need to stop and hug the loved ones in our lives, as each day is a gift to be together.
.
I love my memories of my dad’s work at Kirkwood Police dept. I love to laugh at him when he tells the old stories of the things that happened and people he met. My favorites are the one about the guy who thought he was a leprecaun. Or the time he parked his car at Dunkin Donuts and it rolled across Manchester. He thought the kids playing outside played a joke on him and moved it. He wasn’t even mad at the kids. I remember when we took a trip there for my brothers’ boy scout troop and they locked me in a cell. We used to get free Dunkin dounts by the bag full and got to go swimming when he pulled extra work at the pool. My absolute favorite part (aside from free donuts) of him being a cop in Kirkwood was the pig roast every year. Everyone was so close. Us kids playing in the creek, the men getting drinking and enjoying a well deserved break. Even when I had my daughter they made her a part of the family. I have such fond memories of the town. I wish I could afford to live there. It is a wonderful town.

Today, I got to hear the story of how my dad arrested this man back in 1970 for burglery.

Today, my thoughts are of the children of the men and woman that were killed. All their happy memories are tarnished. These kids don’t get to be proud when their dads retire after 30 years or hear anymore silly stories. They will always be a part of the family, though.

I always knew the risks policeman took. I still have so many friends in the “business” and I worry about them. But never can you imagine the things that have happened in Kirkwood over the last 3 years. I was beyond shocked in July 2005 when Mac was murdered. I was devastated last night when in the middle of a class my phone started blowing up. I wished it was a bad dream. Learning the details of what happened I was in pure shock. Tom wasn’t even supposed to be there. He switched with a friend.

I guess God has a plan, but why does it have to involve crazy murderers? Nothing could have stopped Thornton, I know. He wanted to die, but why take 5 innocent lives with him? I feel as all the good I have known is no longer there. Things have changed. Where there used to be smiles and open arms and ears to listen, now the officers will think twice when someone walks up close to them. Someone invaded their personal space and commited the ultimate crime. How does one do that? He didn’t even give them a fighting chance. How does a man who is supposed to believe in God take 5 lives?

I keep reading comments on how it could have been prevented and why weren’t there medal detectors. This is a good town, they never needed medal detectors. It was a determined man who would stop at nothing to accompish what he set out to do. If there had been security at the door with medal detectors, one, those people most likely would have been shot, as well. Two, people would complain they waited too long to get through them. I don’t know any city hall that has detectors. But the next time I get scanned at the courthouse I’ll remember not to complain I have to empty my pockets. Things have changed.

First and foremost my sympathies go out to all involved: the families of those killed and injured as well as the Thorntons and the good city employees of Kirkwood.
As a city councilman I have been in meetings where we were concerned something like this might happen. Probably every town has been in this position. Luckily it did happen not here. But open meetings are a part of good government and a must in our state and nation. We must continue unafraid for good work has to happen.
I had the chance several years ago to witness Mike Swoboda in action as President of the Missouri Municipal League. After hearing him speak there was little doubt that he was a much appreciated person who was highly devoted to public service. His council certainly was very much the same.
To all of Kirkwood, my sympathies and sincere hope that when the sun comes up tomorrow good things will find each of you.
Tom Harris
City Councilman/Deputy Mayor
City of Fulton, MO

The comment about JC Corcoran definitely belongs here. So does the comment about people hiding in Chesterfield and Kirkwood. Many people in St. Louis are racist whether or not we want to admit it.

Thornton was obviously became a troubled man as the various issues escalated. This website has an 80 page pdf file prepared by lawyers disputing charges back and forth between the city and Thorton. Just how much money did the city spend on lawyers?

Maybe the city fathers should have spent a little more time in church and less time in court. Did anyone from city hall reach out to this gentleman and put aside all this legal crap?

A restraining order request indicates they knew he could be violent. So why weren’t the police checking all the people who entered the courthouse? Didn’t anybody hear the shooting outside? This is the just beginning as I’m betting lawsuits against the city for not providing adequate protection will soon follow.

Is the truth of the situation somewhere in between the two sides of the stories?

At this point, all the allegations back and forth don’t really matter. I think people failed on both sides of the dispute.

Flowers in front of city hall may make you feel better, but they don’t solve any real problems.

Has the city hall every had any diversity training?

If being rude and obnoxious was illegal, there would be very few people walking the streets. Some people make a radio career out of this behavior.

Lots of questions, no good answers.

My deepest sympathies go to all of the families. This was such a senseless tragedy. I especially want to reach out the the family of Tom Ballman- a dear friend of mine. Although I have not talked with Tom in years, he and his family have been in my thoughts and prayers.
Tom- here’s to you. You were always bigger then life and could make anyone laugh.
Love Your Friend Scott Wilson

I went to school with Mr. Bigg’s 2 kids. I remember Mr. Biggs as a very cool guy and I was saddened to learn of his passing today. My father was killed when I was just 13 and I still think about that everyday. It does not get easier. I just think it is a shame that this guys problems had to come out on innocent people like officer Biggs. Cody, where ever you are…….your dad is watching over you, don’t ever forget that. Only the good die young.

How do you know when you, or our government tilts someone over the edge?
By not listening.
That guy had a valid grevence that was ignored by everyone involved.
What has our country come to when our own citizens, committees, and courts
totally disregard the valid complaints of its own taxpaying neighbors.
I’ve done it myself, and am very terribly sorry. Let history teach us all another lesson.
Build up all the walls your want, and lie all the way to clear your conscience,
but the truth will set you free.

#208…KW..I just read your comments.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. Or at least start reading the news.

Affluence and education do not guarantee mental stability. Your high and mighty comments show you have your head stuck in the sand.

You think violence and mental illness are limited to certain neighborhoods? Get real.

Unfortunately, your commens about the need — or lack of need - for security at city hall are obviously just plain wrong.

As an outsider, I can’t tell you how shocking it is to see so many people justify mass murder.

I am terribly sad for the families of the victims and also very sad for the evil in the heart of so many of your citizens.

Sadly, Kirkwood and Meacham Park citizens have so much racial discord. I hope those affected get to the bottom of these racial tensions and that going forward, civic leaders and citizens everywhere treat each other with mutual respect, with a desire to seek mutual resolves to conflicts.

Tribute to victims of Kirkwood City Council Shooting…

Memorial site to pay tribute to victims of Kirkwood City Council Shooting…

It was a quiet night like any other in Kirkwood, MO. A small, close community filled with quaint shops and many bustling businesses. We had just been at my niece’s middle school watching a basketball game. It was 7 pm., 35 degrees and the Kirkwood city council was sitting down to begin one more zoning meeting. It was a night like any other….

Except, on this tragic evening, one, 52 year old, disgruntled business man went to “war” as his brother was quoted as saying. He settled a “score” with the governmental group that had added strife to his life and he ended his problem. He also ended the lives of 5 other unsuspecting individuals, including that of 2 local police officers.

5 people who left their families for the evening to help better their community - lost their lives… These individuals had people at home waiting for them to return - Alive. As the news reporters stated, it wasn’t as if they were going some place that they expected something violent to happen.

Sadly, this individual felt that he had aired his grievances and no one would listen to him. As an independent contractor, he felt that he was being racially discriminated against and was being targeted for harassment. Yet, his anger, outrage, and negative behavior from 2005 to tonight’s tragic ending was disruptive to the Kirkwood City council and on many occasions their meetings and agendas could not be completed as planned because of his actions. He chose to take his fight to Federal court in the form of a law suit. Judge Perry, who presided over his case, said that as a result of his behavior, his rights had not been violated and his suit was dismissed.

Yes, I have to say it is very frustrating when our judicial system doesn’t work the way that we want it to. It can cause frustration, anxiety, hurt feelings. This was over 21 parking tickets that were eventually dropped just so Mr Thornton would not attend any more meetings and let the council move on to other business. What else could this board have done? They felt like they had given this citizen what he wanted, they dismissed all charges against him “yet he could not let this go”.

I can truly sympathize with Mr Thornton’s plight for “justice” in an over burdened system. I do not see this as a white or black issue. Our criminal system often lacks “justice” and more often lacks reason. I too am currently battling the system to get them to prosecute a child molester who assaulted my daughter for over 3 years. This man leaves a trail of 7 other victims. My daughter disclosed 9 months ago. The perpetrator still lives in your neighborhoods, works in your stores traveling all over our state, he may go to your church or spend time with your children. He is a well versed, well liked, well educated and affluent gentleman. He is free to walk around as we pick up the pieces of my 13 year old’s life because the system has yet to do anything to get him off of the streets. Right now you will not find his name on any sex offenders list - you will not know to be aware of him. He can strike again at any time. Yes, I know the frustration with our over worked “system”.

But…what makes one person go to this extreme? I’m sure this is a question that many will ask themselves repeatedly over the next several days and weeks ahead. Despite that, this is not a gun control issue. I have a house full of guns. I have a conceal carry permit. It is not guns that kill - it is the people holding the gun that kills. To say that gun control in this case would have made a difference is ridiculous. If Mr. Thornton had hit several people with his automobile in the open road, we would not blame the car, we would blame Mr Thornton. Therefore, we also need to place the blame here where it belongs, on Mr Thornton. He had a plan. He killed a police officer in the parking lot before he even entered the building so metal detectors inside would not have stopped his rampage. It may have saved a few of the extra lives but he knew exactly what he wanted to do when he shot that first officer. Should we have metal detectors in all of our city halls across the nation then? Not a bad precautionary measure, we have them here in our city hall, why not others? An ounce of prevention…

Still, would this have stopped a man on a mission and how do things get to this point? With all the anger I have as a parent who couldn’t protect her child from a family member, with all the frustration I have with our lack of prosecution against a child molester when our governor says he is going to do everything in his power to protect or children yet he won’t take our calls or do anything to back up his claims and multiple speeches to that effect, I do not see a rampage in my future. Maybe against an unsuspecting pillow….and several outbursts in a counselor’s office. What then, makes one person so volatile that he can end the lives of 5 other individuals, change the dynamics of so many family units and a community as a whole while others cope in less destructive ways?

I do have a PhD in Criminology but I haven’t spent my life studying human behavior, so I can’t answer that. I do agree with Gavin De Becker when he says that we all sing a choir song that could be entitled ” Things Like That Don’t Happen in This Neighborhood”. Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme. We have allowed our denial and our media exposure to become a guaranteed passport into the world of greatness. The lone assailant with a grandiose idea and a handgun has become an icon of our culture. With our denial, we have allowed ourselves to believe that violence and human behavior can not be predicted. Yet, as we take our morning drive on the highway to work, we are constantly predicting human behavior to keep ourselves safe behind the wheel. We expect the thousands of drivers out there in rush hour traffic to behave like we do - yet we are still prepared for and are able to accurately predict those few who might not. In this arena we have a fantastic accuracy in predicting human behavior of those we don’t know.

The violence we fear and abhor the most, that which we call random and senseless is actually neither. For attackers like Mr. Thornton, there was most definitely a purpose and a meaning. It’s at these times that we want to call the perpetrator a “monster” because when we look at such frightening acts such as his we don’t want to think that he is anything like any of us - yet it is finding his humanness - his similarities to you and me- that we could have potentially predicted his violence this tragic evening. If we don’t see the similarities, it is easier for us to feel no responsibilities for failing to read signals if there were none to read. Sadly, like in multiple attacks before this one, Mr. Thornton gave many “signals” and “cries for help”. Many chose to ignore those signals - hoping the “problem” would just go away on it’s own. Millions of people suffer from this same denial which keeps them from taking the actions that could reduce risks.

Neither privilege or fame, money, race or neighborhood we live in will keep violence away. Nobody is untouched. Gavin De Becker is stated as saying “in the last two years alone, more Americans have died from gunshot wounds than were killed during the entire Vietnam War. By contrast , in all of Japan (with a population of 120 million people), the number of young men shot to death in a year is equal to the number killed in New York City in a single busy weekend. By this time tomorrow, 400 more Americans will suffer a shooting injury, and another 1,100 will face a criminal with a gun. Within an hour, another 75 women will be raped.” The FBI statistics show that just during the time that I watched the news cast of this horrific bloodshed so “close to home” - a 3 hour period - another 6 people were murdered somewhere in the US and another 491 violent crimes occurred. Leaving 6 more people without spouses, or children without parents or sadly, parents without their children. At what point do we stand up and demand an end to this national violence?

As communities, businesses, churches, organizations, we need to come together and learn how we can “read” and pay attention to the warning signals. How we can be safe in our homes and transitional areas. How we can work as neighbors to protect each other. The police and judicial system can’t be expected to take care of us all. We are in charge of our own safety and security. We need to learn to do so.

Maybe, instead of spending so much of our income on fighting wars in other countries, we should spend extra money on improving the “wars” that are raging without our country, communities, and homes (domestic violence). This is a year to vote, use that right to encourage our representatives to help strengthen the U.S. and our police forces that are out there every day putting their lives on the line to help keep us safe.

Our prayers go out to the many families, friends and police officers affected by this awful tragedy!

My thoughts go out to the family and friends of the victims. This is not an easy time for anyone. We need to join together as a community so we can get through this together. It will not be easy but it is something that will have to be done. My thoughts go out to the communityof kirkwood.

My heart aches for the family and friends of the good people who were murdered last night. I still can’t believe that this happened here.

The Realtor in comment #222 is completely correct. Mr. Thornton’s name was very familiar to me from the City Council meeting reports in the Webster-Kirkwood Times over the years. If you are reading this and are not familiar with the area, please check those stories. I am distressed by the slant of the national (and even some of the local) reporting on this story. This is not about an oppressed businessman who finally “snapped” from the harassment of uncaring city employees - this is Kirkwood, not St. Louis. It is not about someone being denied “justice” or his “rights” - it is about someone being denied doing exactly as he pleased.

Please pray for the people of Kirkwood tonight…

I was shocked and saddened to see this on the news last night, and followed it all day long today. I grew up in Crestwood, and spent a lot of time in Kirkwood as well. It is such a senseless and selfish act. My family extends our thoughts and prayers to the entire community for those that you have lost. Remember that they are in a better place, and would want you to move on. God Bless.

Kirkwood residents, you have the support of all of StL County. I am in North County and send you my condolences. This is short and sweet because I think everything has been covered already. Keep up your spirit and work to get over this tragedy.

NOTHING Mr Thornton experienced in his life justifies taking another person’s life. NOTHING.PERIOD.
Life sucks for most working class people, but it doesn’t mean people have the right to go kill their bosses. PLEASE!
What a sick, sick comment on society.
Who died and made “Cookie” Thornton judge, jury and executioner? What gave him that right to take the lives he did?
KILLERS ARE NOT HEROES!

Though I now live in Jupiter, Florida (spring training home of the StL Cardinals), I grew up in Kirkwood (Tillman ES, North Kirkwood JH, KHS ‘76).
I was so very shocked to read of the senseless killings in the newspaper here.
I spent most of the summer back in Kirkwood, as my mom (Virginia Howe) slowly died of cancer. I was pleased at how vibrant the downtown area was- it was even hard to find a parking spot!
And now this deranged man has acted out his fantasy of revenge on “his oppressors” in your beautiful Green Tree City. I am sickened.
My sincerest condolences to the families of all the dead. My prayers to the injured for a complete recovery.

I have never met people as dedicated to Kirkwood as these people. Their dreams of a better Kirkwood live on, in all of our hearts.

I did not know Tom Ballman personally, but he was a fellow brother in the Phi Lambda Chi fraternity at Truman State University (formerly Northeast Missouri State University). I know other brothers who were in school with Tom, and they have lost a friend. My thoughts and prayers go out to Tom’s family during this time. Please know that a nation of mourners is behind you, praying for you and the families of the other victims.

I grew up with officer Tom Ballman. As children, we attended the same church and high school. It is hard to understand how such an event could occur. It’s even harder to understand the ridiculous statements being made by some Kirkwood residents.
There is nothing justified or heroic about shooting a police officer, particularly one who I know was a good man. I worked in Kirkwood as a teenager and commuted to work by riding my bike through Meacham Park. While the area has certainly had some challenges, it is shameful to see quotes from citizens who think that they can justify the shooter’s actions. Mr. Thornton was disturbed and his actions were despicable. Tom paid the ultimate price. He was simply doing his job as a police officer.
Our condolences to the Ballman family.

My deepest sympathy goes to the dead, wounded, and their friends and families of this Kirkwood massacre. I am in south Florida now but spent most of my life in St Louis and part of that time as an alderman in a small municipality. These people killed were giving their time for a life of service to their community and it is not an easy job. Everyone always wants something and nobody ever appreciates your committment to serving the public. For someone to do this to a group of people giving of their time to make Kirkwood a wonderful place to live is just horrible. They did not deserve to die at the hands of one man’s selfishness. Our prayers and thoughts are with all of you and a lot of love and a matter of time will help heal some of the pain you are feeling now.

I knew Officer Tom Ballman…He was my uncles best friend and was always around our family…I looked up to him as an uncle of mine…A hero….a great man….Some one who always made family get togethers a great deal of fun…My prayers go out to his wife….two kids…and my family…Im also praying for the other families of the victims…Never Forgotten But ALWAYS Remembered

I’m not sure what would have appeased “Cookie” Thornton. He seems to have been treated, given his repeated violations and his extremely disruptive behavior in city council meetings, with amazing mercy and tolerance by city officials. They even offered to waive his tickets, and indeed, the mayor took the high road and refused to bar Cookie from the meetings, though he was slammed and insulted repeatedly by Cookie, in public. Even with two convictions on disrupting the meetings, the council remained lenient towards this man and allowed him to speak. Just from reading all the information about him and hearing from his friends and acquaintances, it sounds like Cookie was the type of person who would not take “yes” for an answer. Tragically and ironically, it was their mercy and understanding towards him that allowed him the freedom to enter Kirkwood City Hall in the first place and terrorize the council - even so, he killed a police officer on his way there. I’m having a hard time understanding why Cookie was so angry, but I am really trying, since much of the community seems to sympathize with him. In the meantime, I am having no trouble at all feeling nothing but the deepest sadness for the families who lost loved ones and friends - my prayers go out to them, and to Kirkwood, to begin healing.

May I state the obvious?

Mr. Thornton was certifiably mentally ill, as evidenced by his irrational action(s). A sane person could not have done what he did. His brain malfunctioned with horribly tragic results.

His family’s early comments were colossally insensitive, and aggravate our grief; but keep in mind that they were grieving too. Perhaps they cannot accept facts yet; some people still see insanity as a shameful weakness.

In truth, he was simply a very sick man, so trapped in his twisted hellish thoughts that he saw no alternative to mass murder at that moment.

~jr

I must first say at the preface that I am deeply troubled about the tragedy that took place in Kirkwood last night. I have a lot of feeling about the situation but I can truly say the feeling that’s overwhelming me is anger! The citizens of in the St. Louis area who are white say that they don’t understand why a person would commit such an act. I will tell you that as a black man who has grown up in St. Louis that I DO understand! It is a matter of principle. This man was loved by those who knew him, both white and black. I heard Mike Gibbons today in an interview on KMOX say that he was in the guy’s wedding. He was good when he was playing his inferior role(I noticed that the media seems to get joy when they refer to the man as ‘cookie’ which is clearly perjoritive) but when decided to take a stand as a man and demand justice, he became on of them Mecham Park black trouble makers. Those in Kirkwood knew what they did to this man, but they didn’t anticipate the consequences of pushing a fellow citizen over the edge. Maybe next time, they will conduct themselves in a much more dignified manner and not just see a person because of his race.

I moved from the City of St. Louis to Kirkwood 2 years ago to raise our son here. Throughout the night in the city I would here police sirens- not in Kirkwood- not until this morning. At about 5 am this morning I awoke to the sound of police sirens here in Kirkwood and was saddened because these sirens were sound of the police and city of Kirkwood crying.

My heart is broken. My family has lived in Kirkwood for generations and I know many of the families whose lives were so disastrously ripped apart by Cookie Thornton’s actions. They are all good people. All of them. I grieve with them and for them.

It is way past time for people who live on Bodley Avenue or Woodlawn Avenue to think of (and treat) people who live on Electric Street or Saratoga Street as their neighbors, and vice versa. That will be the best outcome of this horrible situation.

Debating or leaving comments about your personal opinions on here are completely uncalled for and disrespectful. Shouldn’t this be just a place to leave messages and condolences to the familes/friends of the victims?

My heart goes out to everyone impacted by the events at Kirkwood City Hall. RIP

My heart breaks for the families. Such a tragedy. Such a horrible waste, so much sadness, such grief.

So stunning that it happened here.

For most of the US, it’s just the latest in a long string of shootings and mass murders. Why aren’t we preventing the headlines? Why aren’t we intervening before the tragedies occur?

A small number of dangerously insane people occur in any large group. We should expect this. We can protect ourselves, and help the sick recover their lives and their sanity.

Why don’t we have these programs already? Is our country so poor? Our insane walk untreated through our society, like ticking time bombs. Other western countries are more proactive; why aren’t we working on prevention and treatment too?

My heart goes out the victim’s families. So sad tonight.

~jr

Can we not express compassion for the grieving families of all six victims and a desire for the entire community of Kirkwood to heal as one, instead of two?

There are no excuses for the behavior of either city officials or Cookie. It takes a united community to sincerely offer compassionate care and, as others suggest, the entire community of Kirkwood bears the responsibility for what happened on both sides of the table. If all involved had listened compassionately to each other and cared to care for each other many years ago instead of pointing fingers at each other, as real neighbors do, maybe none of this would have happened. When it comes to forgiveness and compassion, Jesus simply said “love your neighbor as your self”, He didn’t say only if this or that according to what you want or believe… And I also remember a little quote, “judge not lest ye be judged”—none of us know what was in Cookie’s heart or soul or God’s wisdom in this tragedy; all we know is that Cookie was very wounded when he went to City Hall. Nor do we know what we would say about a family member in our deep shock and grief, often shock and grief do many strange things to people.

Maybe the lesson we need to learn is that mental health is a community problem, not just a family’s problem? Clearly from those who knew him, Cookie was screaming for help for some time, needed help and allof us who heard him bear the responsibility that he didn’t get it… And, as wounded Christians, we all need to heal…

Kirkwood is very close to the heart of this native daughter even though I’m now living in London. My prayers are with all of you, strangers and family and friends alike. dona nobis pacem

My heart goes out to all the families effected by this tradegy. I knew Tom Ballman very well as a fellow member of St. Mark Presbyterian Church. He was a wonderful man, husband, father and Christian. As we all struggle with making sense of this terrible event, I ask that we remember to give thanks to the citizens who bravely serve the public as police officers, elected officials and city employees.

From the many reports surfacing about the killer, he was the cause of his end. So the truth in the end was that the killer didn’t get his way. We are all one people. Whether it be laws, municipality ordinances or a policy in the work environment we are all governed by the same. If you don’t like it then work with the people and by the people to change what you do not like. As far as the family of this killer, their comments on television did not show any remorse as far as I’m concerned and the brother’s statement that the killer’s actions are justified is lunacy. One has to wonder if the killer’s family had prior knowledge about what was going through the killer’s mind moments before the attack.

I would like to believe that Kirkwood will rise above and survive this senseless act. Only time can tell. My prayers and thoughts are for the good people of the Kirkwood community. The grandparents, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, and all other extended family members of those who perished because of this killer’s crime against humanity, you are in my prayers that you receive strength and peace going forward. I can’t imagine the pain you are feeling at this time and God is truly watching over you all.

I am truly saddened by this event. I grew up with Tom Ballman, and couldn’t feel more proud to see him as a police officer and as a man who did the right thing. It crushes me that he as well as the others had to die so senselessly. But what crushes me further is the talk of the murderers family, and others who feel like he was justified, and that this is slowly turning into a story about racial divisions in this community. Now I’m not saying that there isn’t a racial issue in this community, or the entire city and county for that matter, because there is. But if we leave that aside, and just go off of what caused the murderer to “snap” :
-He violated city ordinances, and was ticketed
-He refused to pay the fines, based on his thought that he should be grandfathered in, since it wasn’t an issue before the annexation.
- He did the right thing, by appealing the fines, then using the legal system to find his justice.
- The courts did not feel that his case warranted overturning, so he took it to the next level.
- Finally, the federal court denied his appeal.

I keep hearing how this was a freedom of speech issue, a racial issue, or in the murderer’s own words, “The truth will come out in the end”. Now I don’t know the intimate detatls of this case, and maybe in the end something will shed light on the situation. But I think the murderer was doing the right thing, and expressing his frustration– protesting at meetings, filing legal actions, getting his story out in the press. That’s the RIGHT way for an American citizen to express anger, frustration. The WRONG way is to take the low road, and harass officials, threaten officials, and finally murder a police officer who was going to grab some dinner, steal his weapon, then burst into a council meeting concealing your weapons, then coldly shoot a police officer in the head (who had arrested him 2 times) , murder the Public Works official (who he had issues with in the past) , then walk down the dias and murder two other city officials, and shoot the mayor twice in the head.

You can yell at me, show hatred at me, whatever you please. This was a calculated, planned, cold blooded act. This isn’t a racial issue, this isn’t a gun control issue, this isn’t a security standards issue. Plain and simple, this was MURDER. I almost wish that the murderer hadn’t been taken out by the police officers, so that not only could he have a forum for his gripes with the city, but that a jury of his peers would convict him, and then sentence him to die.

I feel so sad for the families of those lost, for the communities of Kirkwood and Meacham Park, but especially for the murderer– he was doing the right thing, and somewhere he lost his way.

My condolances certainly go to the family members of those killed but some of the comments here have angered me. I grew up in Kirkwood, and live in Webster Groves now, so am very sorry to know all the bad things that have happened lately. I did not know any of the people killed, but feel awful that this happened and for the families of those that were killed. To the moderator, if there is a better location to post discussion of these issues, please let us know so this discussion can be moved from the condolances thread. I have not found an alternative place so far. I do think it’s helpful to talk about these things.

I would suggest that anyone who plans on opening a business or moving to a city read the ordinances and know what the rules are - and if you are a contractor you are responsible for knowing the building codes, and getting permits for the work you are doing. These are there for safety reasons, and also the city must have some control over work you do on a property so that your neighbors are not affected in a bad way by the work you are doing. If you don’t understand something - ask - I’m sure the city would have been more than willing to clarify any codes. In Kirkwood they are available right on the website if you go to city ordinances and if you are a contractor you are responsible for purchasing the building codes for the cities you work in. If you don’t like the codes of the place, don’t live there, though if you do work in a community you will still have to follow the codes. They are there for a reason - so your customer or someone else doesn’t get injured by work you have done, or the neighbors aren’t inconvenienced too much by the construction. They are even there so you do not get hurt - safety codes for people doing the construction.

I suppose since Meacham park was annexed into Kirkwood they didn’t exactly have the choice to not move there, but, but still a city had rules that you have to abide by as a citizen and you always have the right to move your business to another city that will allow you to park your commercial vehicles at your home. If Meacham park does not want to be a part of Kirkwood so they don’t have to follow Kirkwood codes, I wonder if they have any say in that - I don’t know the answer to that. Perhaps if the residents of Meacham park could agree to their own set of codes since they maybe did not choose to become a part of the City of Kirkwood that would be an option - I know there are special codes and ordinances for certain streets in communities - why not for a community that was annexed into another and may have certain rules grandfathered in.

This could really happen anywhere, which is why this is so scary. Lots of cities have ordinances that people don’t agree with, but they are there to make the lives of everyone better there. Luckily most people don’t resort to violance like this to try and solve their problems. I would say a better solution would be to try to elect people who agree with you and change the ordinances if you disagree with them as a better solution.

In response to #258. ( Comment by merriwthr3 ) — You stated, “The citizens of in the St. Louis area who are white say that they don’t understand why a person would commit such an act. I will tell you that as a black man who has grown up in St. Louis that I DO understand! It is a matter of principle.”

How can anyone, regardless of their race say that it is a matter of principle? Let me say that it is all races coming forth saying they don’t understand. That’s because the killer’s actions cannot ever be justified. The murdering of 5 innocent, law abiding, decent, loving human beings will never be a matter of principle. I can see a major issue is when persons like #258, continue to play the race card.

The Kirkwood officials did nothing more than enforce the law. These fine upstanding citizens were robbed of life. Their families will suffer forever. How dare any person try to justify the killers actions and not have remorse for the innocent victims that have perished.

Some people have called “Cookie” Thorton a hero. Heroes don’t kill innocent people. Real men don’t pick up a gun to settle their differences. Mr. Thorton was a promising young man and small business owner, but he led himself down a terribly wrong path several years ago. His acts were those of a coward; to me, they suggest the “real” Cookie Thorton was lost some time ago.

I think there is a misconception that “we” are struggling to heal. This is now so common place that I am unaffected. It’s a statement of how rotten life has gotten in America. Sure some will go to the candlelight vigils but it is more that they want “to be seen” at the candlelight vigil so that they feel somehow connected but then they go home to the little West County existence and others fade out of their selfish mindscape. St. Louis is a rotten place to live and always will be.

I was both saddened and appalled to read Webster Groves resident Ben Gordon’s quote in today’s Post on page A15 hailing Charles Thornton “a hero”, and suggesting that the victims of this senseless crime were somehow to blame — as Mr. Gordon put it “Kirkwood officals share in this responsibility”. With all due respect to Mr. Gordon, his comments were thoughtless, ignorant and flat out wrong. There is no justification for Mr. Thornton’s actions, period.

Many of us at one time or another have battled adversity, battled the establishment — many times the battle is sadly a creation of our own poor decision(s) or choices. I am guilty of that - I am a human being. However, violence is never the “right” or responsible answer. How do I as a father of 3 young boys teach those boys about the “right”, responsible way to handle adversity, when on Thursday night they and the nation saw a grown man, a purported man of faith, resort to murder in the face of his adversity — adversity that appears to have been borne of his own decisions and choices.

Mr. Thornton had many avenues that he could have taken that would have resulted in a different violence-free outcome. Sadly for his family and the familes of his innocent victims, he chose a path of violence leading to a very public and tragic outcome.

I do not know what Mr. Gordon’s definition of a hero is. This Webster Groves resident does not believe that a hero would gun down defenseless victims. This Webster Groves resident believes that a true hero has the courage to do the right thing, the responsible thing, even when it is the hardest thing to do. Charles Thornton was no hero!

I met Tom Ballman when he attended Northeast Missouri State University (now Truman State). He and I were both members of Phi Lambda Chi Fraternity. He was always a good person and could lighten up a room when he entered. Tom, his wife, children and family are in my prayers.

When things settle down I would like an independent panel to review what happened over the course of the dispute. I think it is imperative for the community to understand what happened and why so some real closure can happen. None of this absurd violence mad any sense but if this man was targeted lets really flush it out. If he was a lousy business with limited mental capabiliites I want that flushed out as well.

Either way I am embarresed for the mother and brother of the shooter who fail to realize the pain that was put upon the entire community.

I would like to extend my heartfelt condolences to the friends and families who lost loved ones in this atrocious act of violence. My prayers are with all of them, and I pray their souls rest in peace. They are in a place that is free of illness, death, and destruction, and I know they are resting in the Kingdom of Heaven. Peace to all.

#258 - I am a white woman in her 50s and I can understand why Cookie went off. I don’t agree with his methods at all, but I was raised around black folks who went through some very bad times in this area. One was a second mother to me. My parents were raised poor, but their skin color gave some perks that no one in their right mind can deny. I have posted before about problems we had with the KKK burning us out because we would not discriminate. This is just a few years ago people. Look at where the big box stores went. Not in the lily white hoods. It destroyed the MP neighborhood, but the people still shine as they can. As a single woman who is independent, I feel the put you in your place stuff too. Daily sometimes. It wears on you. It really does.
People don’t seem to want to hear this anymore. Like it went away and is solved. It is more class discrimination now with wealth spreading to the black community, but it is still there. And us women now hear men of color and pale insulting us for entertainment. We flock to church, but don’t learn. Celebrate our differences and learn each others’ truths. My god, it’s not going to work if we don’t admit there is still a big problem. It’s funny most whites didn’t have a similar shocked reaction to tree lynchings, rapes, murders, dog bites and clubs when the shoe was on the other foot. Yes, they did cater to Cookie a bit more than they have some activists, but that was self-serving too. They knew he had community respect and back up. But they were still arrogant enough to hassle a working man for commercial vehicles when their buds get to do pretty much as they please. Yes, I can point out white owned trucks parked willy nilly in that town. I can point out white male contractors who still get first crack at the best work, despite bid rigging shams. (they have that women minority program worked out and just use their wives as shills)
This split amongst racial lines is expected. I have seen that all my life. I have also seen whites antagonize blacks, and then say “they started it” when they defended themselves. And I have seen how frustration with that makes young blacks lash out for , seemingly, no reason. If I had gone through things that some folks have (and I have come closer than my pale skin might make you think since I have a few attributes that are discriminated against by this society), I would be wanting to blow the “dick-swingers” away too at times. The simple constant unfounded “superiority”, arrogance and/or patronizing behavior just wears on you.
No change was won completely peacefully when those in power don’t truly want change. But this wasn’t that kind of stand to most of us. To Cookie it was. And now we live with it. But our arrogance around the world that is similarly misplaced will bite us back eventually too. Others loved ones die. If this post makes you angry or uncomfortable it did its job. Just think a bit more about how your comfortable world and what you do to defend your status quo affects others. If we take anything of value from Cookie’s stand, let’s take that.
By the way reporters…some of the TV outlets let their bias show while reporting all this. It was obvious and it is wrong! For those of you of every color who really work daily to level the field and truly do god’s work…GOD BLESS YOU ALL, AND WHATEVER HAPPENS WE WILL MEET AGAIN SOMEDAY…IN PEACE AND EVOLVED IN GOD’S GRACE Peace!

The thing most people don’t get is that the city of Kirkwood has aggressively gone after the black population in their town. They have used eminent domain laws to seize most of the black neighborhood. This has been a despicable practice on the part of the City of Kirkwood. The blacks are under attack and that would not be a pleasant thing if I was in their shoes.
It does not justify the violence, but I can understand Cookies anger. If you had driven past that neighborhood for the past 30 years like I have, you would be able to clearly see that the blacks of Kirkwood have been under attack. Their neighborhood is almost totally gone now. Clearly Kirkwood does not want blacks in their community and I’m sure the black people living there are well aware of it. It is just not right what is going on there.

I lived in Kirkwood for four years my Son and his family still live there. I did not personally know any of the victims of this horrible act but my heart goes out to them.
What can you say to the families and friends whose lives have been devasted by this tragedy which words cannot possibly describe. I lost my wife 6 years ago in a sudden death. So to some extent I can feel their emptiness and depair. The wound will heal but the scar will always be there to remind them of their loss. In time they will be able to remember only their love and fondness for those they lost. For All we really have is faith, family and friends and that is what ultimately gets us through the dark days of our souls.
May the God of Love shine His perpetual light on them and grant them eternal rest.

21 traffic tickets to this man in three days by the Kirkwood police? Seems to me that this behaviour on their part was excessive to say the least, if indeed this is a true fact. Only can go on what has been printed in this case since Thursday There obviously has been a battle going on between these two for a long time and the tragedy is that the innocents in this equation paid the price. When you deal with individuals who do not have the money or clout that you do, you pick your battles, focus on the big issues and not the small ones. I personally left Kirkwood 23 years ago because i found the police to be rather excessive with their use of speed traps where you were done for 1-3 miles over the limit. In all my travels around the world, have never seen anything like this in my life, the overwhelming zeal of petty law enforcement in that community. Read “Black like me” by Julius Lester or go see the original version of “In the Heat of the Night” with Sidney Portier and Rod Steiger and perhaps one can imagine possibly what the other side goes through on a day to day basis. This act was the culmination of a series of encounters and I think there is fault on both sides. It would be a form of denial to bury this and go on and place blame strictly on the perpetrator, rather examine the system that contributes to it. For starters, the liquidation of Meecham park for the benefit of big business ,creating additional tax revenue for the city itself. I raise these issues as possibilities. Of course it lastly must be said that we must have huge empathy and prayer for the families involved. Can we learn something? I hope so. JM

I was surprised and disturbed by the events of Thursday. Even though I no longer live in Kirkwood, I remembered the names of many of those involved.

I am truly sorry for those who lost their lives and their families. Even Cookie and his family.
As for Sgt. Biggs and Officer Ballman, thank you for your service. As for the Kirkwood Police Dept. I feel your pain and share your loss as well. Time will heal this too.

Steve Smith RN
Medford, OR

Just for clarification. The courts told the murderer he did not have to pay the fines and to “just go away, everything is okay.” But he still was mad. I send my condolences to the wonderful families who have lost their loved ones.

Had the system worked all these people would still be alive. Pray for the Thornton family they too are victims in this tragedy

This is an important dialog. We cannot heal our community without addressing these tough issues. I invite anyone who is interested to join this facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=11224705038

My hope is that it can serve as a forum for open and frank discussions. Perhaps it is a slightly more appropriate place to voice your anger and concerns than a forum titled “condolences-for-those-killed-or-wounded-in-the-kirkwood-shooting”

My condolences to all the families that lose someone in this shooting. Its sad that these things still go on today. But the only thing for us to do now it to learn from this and change problems like this in your community.

My condolences to all the families that lost someone in this shooting. It’s sad that things like this still go on today. But the only thing that we can do know is learn from this and try to change things like this in our communtiy so incidents like this won’t happen again!

Here are some lyrics to a piece of music I wrote several years ago I would like share with everyone to reflect upon. My deepest sympathy to all the families and their loss.

Can you see what’s going on, everything is coming undone.
Have our hearts of gold turned bitter and cold, tell me it’s not so.

If we change our ways, we can change our world.

Have we gone numb from all the pain? Is one man’s loss really your gain?
Do you turn your head? Do you walk away and go about your day?

If we change our ways, we can change our world.

How long will it take, before we learn of hates mistakes?
Can we right the wrongs? Can we heal the wounds? You know its been too long.

If we change our ways, we can change our world.

You know, I think I’m going to wait and make sure that it’s not too late.
I want to feel God’s Love shine on through and rest upon me and you.

If we change our way, we can change our world.

Connie Conroy Karr was my best friend in St. Louis. We met at the St. Louis Globe-Democrat. I have very fond memories of my time in St. Louis. Connie was one of those people you were glad to have met. We went thru a lot together. I think of her often and always knew someday we would get together and catch up on old times. I will not be able to do that now and it breaks my heart. My thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends.
Diana (Offner) Haynes
St. Joseph, MO

First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go to all of the family and friends of those MURDERED and injured. May God give you strength and resolve in the most trying and difficult time of your lives.

Now, I have a reminder for everyone. Even though I did not personally know either of the officers murdered in Kirkwood I lost two obviously outstanding and respected members of my family. God speed brothers. The man who murdered these two officers specifically targeted them because they are police officers. It appears that both of the officers were experienced and yet were not able to draw their weapons to defend their lives.

I may be going out on a limb here but from what I heard both of these fine officers were calm and cool, easy going guys. No doubt they both worked diligently to “bridge the gaps” in the community of Kirkwood. Both of these men probably tried to calm and control this murderer as they were being hunted. Both men sacrificed their life trying to make a positive difference in their community and their world. Being a police officer today is more dangerous than ever. The criminals are more dangerous, violent and know they are less likely to answer for their crimes than ever before. And now, with all the frivilous law suits, police departments and city governments are less likely to stand behind an officer who is quick to use force to defend himself or others. The MEDIA makes it 1000 times worse. Any time an officer uses force he or she is almost immediately scruitnized. Poor, pitiful criminals, they are just misunderstood.

When we as a society finally grow tired of criminals killing innocent people with guns, knives, speeding cars and what ever other tools they can find, maybe, just maybe WE will reclaim the streets by standing behind our POLICE OFFICERS and giving them the authority and support to do the job they are hired to do. Stop the insanity and start looking at the real problem; criminals and a society supporting frivilous lawsuits and complaints.

To all of you justifying the senseless murders of two police officers and three city officials, I would like to say “Shut Up!” Think about the people. Bill Biggs, Tom Ballman, Connie Karr, ken Yost, Micheal Lynch. All dead. Their families now have to live without them, because Cookie Thornton decided that his problems were more important than their lives. These people dedicated themselves to their community. Cookie killed them in cold blood.

I pray that Mayor Swoboda recovers, because his dedication to the City and its people have been known for years. People in this city love Mike Swoboda, and he loves us.

The real hero in this tragedy is Terry Janus, whose composure during this event was amazing. Thanks Terry, and Thanks Mayor Mike. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

ok first off I would like to say that people you need to figure your facts out before you start making these assumptions. I knew Cookie for over 15 years and he was the nicest person i personally have ever met. he would do anyhting to help me or my family out in our time of need. I am not trying to justify what he did was right. but if you dont know the whole story of what has happend over the years then you would have a very bad view on him and what he did. i feel for the familes that were affected on that night. Maybe kirkwood should think about what has happend the past few years. Maybe they will learn from their actions and step up their sercurity in kirkwood. both parties are at fault here. i really dont care what anyone else belives because most of you dont even know what was really going on. And again im very sorry for everyones loseses.

If something positive comes out of this horrific tragedy, please let it be that in memory of these good people, each and every one of us dedicates ourselves to treating our elected officials and each other at home, work, school, play and while driving with respect, decency and kindness. We can do it. Let our actions be their monument!

I knew Tom Ballman, and I am greatly saddened at what happened. He was liked by everyone, and this is such a huge loss. I see no justification for this. Nobody in their right mind can justify Mr. Thorton’s actions. Now Tom’s kids grow up without their Dad. He was a great Dad and his kids were always so happy. I hate to think about the pain they are going through because of a nut case who couldn’t face up to his own responsibilities.

It deeply saddened our family when we heard of the loss of lives in one of our favorite communities. It is a community where we spent many days enjoying the beauty of the area and the friendliness of the people who live there. I have seen and heard of an alarming amount of these trajedies over the past 10 years. People need to take notice of what is happening in our communities as we are slowly losing our freedom. As a nation we should not close our eyes to the crime and murderous acts that occur on a daily basis. People, not the government, are the only hope for change.

Although I have traveled throughout the U.S. and even to another part of the world, Kirkwood will always be my hometown. I remember walking past Rexall and The Model on my way to Velvet Freeze. I met Cookie Thornton in 1990, as a 9th grader at Nipher Junior High, and he was a great kid–friendly and lively. I don’t think I’ve seen him since our graduation from KHS in 1974. It’s hard to admit that places and people both change. I hope Kirkwood can recover from this and continue to be the great town I remember. I pray for everyone who has been affected by this tragedy.

Dear Kirkwood,

As a former resident in Kirkwood (1987-2002), I presently live in San Antonio. I am horrified and disgusted of what happened at the finest city in America. Moreover, I do believe Kirkwood has the best community service-minded people of all the towns in the U.S.A. Moreso, I still can not believe that this would happen to such wonderful and caring citizens.

You are in my prayers, Kirkwood,

Scott R. Davis

P.S. Mike, hang in there! And… Tim, I’ll support you as acting mayor!

It turns out that municipality I mentioned did upgrade their security. shame it took this tragedy and not the concerns of employees to get policies implemented. oh well.

Must we act as a life isn’t worth anything? We are all the same in so many ways; yet when some like this happens it turns into a Racial thing. Didn’t we lose enough people of all races in 9/11?
Didn’t we work together and didn’t look at what color skin a person had when they needed help?

What is happening to our Race; the Human one?

This isn’t a racial thing; it was one human being that snapped and people who didn’t deserve to die did. I pray for those who this has touched and for the Policeman who were victims. We have enough problems in our United States, how are we going to pull together as a nation if something happens - if we can’t even get along in our own neighborhood? We shouldn’t have this kind of sadness in our own backyard. Let’s all wakeup and realize we are all in this together; one day we may have to be there for each other. God Bless all of those who live in the City of Kikwood.

It WAS a racial thing. Because the shooter said it was. This would not have happened as it did if it wasn’t. TO HIM. Or more correctly, he said it was a plantation mentality. More commonly known as a white plantation owner with black slaves, but it is more nowadays. It is a class thing with arrogant, trifling people in power messing with folks more and more. If a developer takes my home like they did many in MP through eminent domain. I might snap too. They gave this man way too many tickets. They would give him permits, then turn around and ticket him as he showed them the permits they gave him. Over and over. He had to take time off work to go to their kangaroo courts. Disrespect they are now dealing with. They still have to walk to their cars. Their kids still have to walk out of the house sometime, so all the metal detectors in the world won’t help as long as their attitudes don’t change. Like the response to 911, it just won’t work to try to lock the people out of gov’ment. We ARE the gov’ment. Sorry, but kum-ba-ya rosey glasses don’t work anymore. They go too far nowadays in what is supposed to be a free country. Enforce the laws equally, and maybe this won’t happen again.

We live in a fragile and imperfect world tinged by brokenness and cloaked in unanswered questions. Some things truly are not fair and this is one of the greatest injustice I feel I have ever had to witness. I am so sorry that words were just not enough. Somehow, we must all keep our lives afloat in a rising tide of doubt and desperation.

We extend our heartfelt sympathy to the entire families of the ones who periled, as well as, the residents of Kirkwood in this time to heal. Officer Ballman and Officer Biggs gave their lives so we can be safe, and for the sacrifice they made for the people. We can never thank them enough for a job well done. We can only hope in time to come the great divide of the residents will come to pass. They made a difference and we thank them from the bottom of our hearts.

The Mulfords—Chesterfield, Mo.

The victims and their families and co-workers are in our thoughts and prayers - God’s blessing to all of you…

Everyone is saying that Mr. Thornton should have been barred from future meetings…that would not have been done, because they enjoyed seeing the pain they were causing him too much. They pleasured in seeing him slowly lose it.
You say it wasn’t racist. I’ve not read one comment of condolences to the Thornton Family. I give them my condolences…But this probably won’t be printed so that won’t get it, but prayers have more power than blogs. THANK GOD!!!

As I read the news coverage and comments on this tragedy, I add my thoughts and prayers for Mr. Thornton’s family, particularly his teenaged daughter, who, I’m sure, is not only grieving the loss of her father but will soon likely feel the burden of the stares of people who will somehow channel their anger over her father’s terrible acts towards her. However, the posts that somehow attempt to humanize, if not justify, the killer’s acts are symptomatic of the depths that our society has reached. In time, there will and should be forgiveness. But, within hours of this tragedy, is it necessary for us to have to listen to how Mr. Thornton was the most tragic victim of all this? If there’s anything positive to be gained from the aftermath of this this unjustifiable act, it’s that it has pulled the community together and perhaps weakened the standing of the vocal minority who limit what we all can achieve together by claiming that people like Mr. Thornton are the victims of some wrongful act that rationalizes their violence.

I think it’s dispicable that the media has chosen to air the deranged comments of the killer’s friends and family blaming the white citizens of Kirkwood and the murderer’s victims for the violent acts of a twisted man consumed with his own hate. It can be compared to allowing neo-nazis to take the stage during a holocaust remembrance ceremony and saying the jews deserved to be killed.

That being said, I’m grateful for this blog because I have learned much about the compassion, tolerance, selflessness, dedication, and heroism of the 5 victims of this horrible tragedy. I wish I had been blessed to have known them personally. May their sacrifices inspire others to strive to better their communities through public service. May God comfort all those grieving over this senseless hate crime.

There have been *many* condolences to the Thornton family! You simply haven’t taken the time to look through the postings to find them. There are so many here, including myself, who send condolences to Cookie Thornton’s family but it’s difficult to do. You see violence and murder are never good or justifiable means to an end. Look to Martin Luther King, Jr. and his teachings - there is the guidance and it’s not violent. In fact it’s just the opposite. Anger, hate and violence had been seething through Mr. Thornton’s heart and soul and that never works and it isn’t right. Yes, there were many who felt Mr. Thornton should have been barred from future meetings and for just the reason, it turns out, why. The hate and violence ended with the death of 5 innocent people and Mr. Thornton who was not innocent - he murdered them. Martin Luther King, Jr. did not teach hate and murder - nor do our pastors and parish priests. Mr. Thornton needed help and I’m saddened by his death but I’m horrified by what he did to 5 innocent victims. My prayers are with all of them and their families.

As a 60 year resident of Kirkwood, I am heartbroken for the people personally affected as well as all the residents of our beloved community. Kirkwood will go on, of course, as the wonderful place to live it always has been, but will never by quite the same.

My condolences to all the families and friends that have been affected by this incident.

Whitedebra? #282, 290 to just name a few…why don’t you actually read the previous entries before writing and judging…
Our condolences to the grieving innocent families.

I attended Prince of Peace Church with Tom Ballman. He was a sweet, innocent little boy who I remembered would wear a little badge on his shirt. That is how much he so wanted to be an asset to the community protecting other people’s lives and safety.
And he was sweet untli the day this travesty took place. He was known for his smile. God Bless the Ballman Family and the other innocent families grieving at this time.

We are former residents of Kirkwood. For some of you older residents, my husband
managed The Model Dept Store, corner of Jefferson and Kirkwood. It was definitely
a family store where customers knew each other. We still have a fondness for the
community and were shocked and devastated by this horrific tragedy.
Our daily prayers are for the community as a whole and for the individual families
and loved ones of the fallen victims.
We are always inspired and proud of the police heroes who rally to support their
fallen comrades. It is our belief that the community will not forget this. However, they
will support and comfort each other in the manner befitting a community such
as theirs.

Officer Tom Ballman was a kind-hearted, thoughtful individual. I’ve known Tom since we were children - we lived in the same neighborhood and attended the same schools. He always had an infectious smile, so warm and sweet. During one summer in high school, Tom volunteered to participate in a musical show that traveled to rest homes and churches simply to brighten the spirits of others. That’s how he chose to spend his time because that’s the type of person he was. He clearly continued his service to others throughout his life, and for that, I will forever be grateful. He’s a role model and hero, and my deepest sympathies go out to his family.

He will never be forgotten since he lives indelibly in the hearts of those fortunate enough to have known him.

My condelences to all who have been wounded or had died in the Kirkwood tragedy.

I can somewhat see both sides of the Kirkwood/Thornton contraversy about what initiated the deadly confrontation on Thursday. I lived in Kirkwood from 1987 to 2001 in a “grey” area of Kirkwood- what I mean by “grey” is that the area, just east of Meramec Community College, has a mixed population of 50% white and black. We all got along with each other, had picnics together and socialized. Lee Avenue was a very friendly street and I miss it. We now live west of 270.

There were times when I felt I was being hassled by Kirkwood. We had multiple warnings about our boat not being stored behind the house, unlicensed cars in the driveway, dogs barking, etc.
We never received a ticket because we took care of the problems before it reached that point.

There was a family that lived across the street that owned a body shop. There were always cars waiting for repair and unlicensed vehicles lining his driveway-for the entire time we lived there and to this day. We could never understand why he never received a ticket or moved the cars. One day we asked him and he told us that he had a sense of entitlement to do what he wanted with his property, after all, he owned it and paid taxes on it. I felt the same way, but if everyone did not adhere to Kirkwoods laws regarding debris and junk vehicles, what would the neighborhood look like?

I have been in MP several times. A few times before the Kirkwood Commons was built I would buy supplies at Turner School at a lumber yard doing business out of the building there. I have been to Meacham park after the shopping center was built- just to see what Kirkwood and the developers had done for the residents . Although MP is about half the size it once was, the neighborhoods appearence has been drastically improved. Gone are the ramshackle home and decay. Kirkwood went in and built brand new homes and fixed up the older homes that remained. MP looked better then my “grey” area and the residents had better homes than I did.

Kirkwoods intent was to have the all city have a maintained look. It just had to patrol MP more to insure that the area stayed as it was rebuilt to look. Mr Thornton seemed to have the same mindset as my old neighbor- his property and he can do as he sees fit. The asphalt trucks did detract from the area and were parked on public roads-Kirkwood was justified in ticketing him.
It’s apparent now that if 20,000.00 in tickets were issued, that Thornton had other ideas about the storage of his vehicles.

Everyone keeps bringing up the tickets cost. Kirkwood did tell Thornton that if he went away (from the meetings) that the tickets would go away-Thornton declined.

Aside from the shootings, the problem that I now have is understanding the Thornton family comments that his actions were OK. This brother Gerald was sent to prison for stabbing a man to death in the ’90’s. I guess it is understandable coming from him that his brother “went to war”.
Charles’ mothers comments …well… he was her son. I’m quite sure that both brother and mother stood to gain financially from Thorntons lawsuit against Kirkwood-had he won. After all, he lost the retirement home in Florida and had filed bankruptcy. I would be angry if I thought I would be prospering and then did not.

From what I have read, Thornton had given many things back to Kirkwood earlier in his life. Too bad his legacy will be what he has done to Kirkwood last Thursday.

R.D.K.

First of all this was a horibble tradegy. My condolences go out to the victims and their families. Also my prayers go out to the suspect and his family. While watching the live feed the night of the tradegy, I heard Roche Madden of FOX2 comment on the fact there was no metal detectors on the City Hall doors. He commented” what do we do put detectors all over America”. The problem is you can not legislate morality. More laws do not change the heart of a person.More laws just box “good people” in. We’ll end up legislating ourselves into a corner. The other problem is we have allowed a minority and I mean a small minority to remove morality from our country. I talking about those that want seperation of church and state, the media which has allowed TV and radio to become so vulgar. They have removed GOD out of everything and this is what we are left with. Outrageous killings and crimes that dont make sense. America needs a real Revival. Not just a religous undertaking, but with a real relationship with the heavenly father. America its time to hit our knees and pray for revival, or in the next few years there is no telling what the headlines will read

Many prayers and deepest sympathy go to the people of Kirkwood and especially to the families of those killed and injured. May God bring healing to all of you. Maureen Thornton spoke some very touching words on the news and her grief was felt through all of them. Mrs. Thornton, you are a victim of this tragedy also, and you will be in the prayers and hearts of more people than you realize. I hope that someone will share this message with you because you deserve to know that others care for you now, too. J. Hartmann St. Louis

Our heartfelt prayers go out to all the families after this senseless tragedy in our own wholesome town of Kirkwood. Such an indescribable loss. Sallie Lynch, we are praying for you and your family. May you feel the arms of God surround you and lift you up each day now.

I’m a relative of one of the victims, and I’m shocked beyond belief by the hate I see on this board. Shame on those here who excuse murder–or revel in it. And shame on the Post Dispatch for letting their condolences turn into a hate-filled forum.

I truly believe the fate of Mr. Thornton was going to end in bloodshed. It’s merely a coincidence that it had to occur in a city hall. The references to government responsible for this activity is nothing short of pure insanity. Local government is that which is closest to the people. Every day these officials are making one set of citizens upset while pleasing the larger percentage. A fully functioning local government will step on toes, but gunshots should not be the response. Gunshots in these instances come from disillusioned, ignorant persons.

God rest the souls of our departed officials and god, we pray for those that condone this type of behavior.

CMC

My prayers are with all. May all be in gods heart, Kirkwood will be forever be strong. God Bless

I just spent the last hour reading through every message on this blog. I am pretty amazed at how many people are saying, “well, I don’t condone what he did, but I understand how Cookie Thornton felt,” blah, blah, “racist people in power cracking the whip on a man just asking for justice.” Are you people serious? So many of your comments are completely off-base and many of you need to reexamine your values.

I grew up in Kirkwood (Tillman, Nipher, KHS ‘99). Cookie Thornton was actually a volunteer mentor at Tillman Elementary when I was a kid. At one time he was no monster, but a man who dedicated his time for the service of others. The kids looked up to him. Frankly, after what happened Thursday night, I think it’s obvious the Cookie people once knew and loved, was not in his right mind. He was instead full of anger and pride. Why, I do not understand.

I live in Boston now, so I’m a little out of the loop. Based on conversations with my parents, and several trips home for the holidays, I’m aware that developers have arguably been given free reign in Kirkwood’s historic districts. I know that property values have increased, as a result. So have taxes. It’s hard for a couple just starting out to buy a house nowadays, whereas in 1979 my parents were able to purchase a fixer-upper for $29,000 on E. Jefferson Ave. Consequently, not as many young progressive families live in the area, and more upper class people move in who don’t remember Velvet Freeze or what the town looked like before the above ground parking garages and downtown condominiums. Meacham Park was annexed into the city, and I know that upset many people. But come on, MP isn’t in disarray. Many wonderful people live there. I used to walk to Nipher Middle School through MP. The city has helped improve that community for the better. Cookie did not follow the law. As a result, he was fined. He didn’t like it, and started disrupting city meetings, at inappropriate times. He spent money he didn’t have on frivolous lawsuits asking for millions. He was disrespectful and rude toward the council. And he brutally killed five people Thursday night. I am disgusted that so many people seem to think Thornton’s actions made some kind of rational sense, and that the city is in some way responsible.

I knew Ken Yost really well, because he took time out of his busy schedule to help me with my senior research three years ago. I was studying noise pollution in Galesburg, IL, specifically the psychological effects of train noise, and I used Kirkwood as an example of a community taking positive steps. Ken talked to me for several hours about Kwood’s no horn policy recently implemented. He burned a copy of a recent PowerPoint presentation on the subject for me. We kept in touch for several months via email. Now he’s gone. Ken Yost was one of the warmest, kindest people I’ve met. All the victims had their lives snuffed out too soon, in cold blood. Can we all at least agree on that? These were all public officials, individuals making daily sacrifices to improve the community that so many on this blog are trying to tear apart. Thornton could not take personal responsibility for his problems, his marriage, his bankruptcy, the tickets he incurred, and made a decision that was not characteristic of the Cookie Thornton most people knew in his younger years. That decision has destroyed families and left a community shaken with grief.

I do not look at people based on the color of their skin. I judge them based on what they say and do. This is how we should all evaluate each other. Thornton’s brother, who virtually condoned Cookie’s decision to “go to war with the city,” does not have any point, other than he is a grieving family member expressing love for his brother. Beyond that his comments are insensitive, as are so many other comments made at the Meacham Park community meeting. Alright, perhaps the white community needs to be more involved in Meacham Park. We all need to do what we can to improve race relations in Kirkwood, but I’m not sure how we go about doing that. Connie Carr was secretary for the Meacham Park neighborhood association. She was doing what she could to bridge the divide. Cookie, the man many of you defend, killed her without a second thought. Where is the hatred “as a black man” (somewhere above) coming from?

Here is what is not being said: Everyone who lives in Kirkwood is subject to the same rule of law. People need to stop blaming local government for all their problems, and take personal responsibility. Fact is, you can’t dump leftover material on vacant lots, you can’t park vehicles illegally, you must go through appropriate channels to get the licenses and permits for your projects. As a citizen, you can’t just say, “nope city jackasses, I want to do what I want to with my property, screw the ordinances!” You see, reverse discrimination should not be ignored because it apparently played a role here, but discrimination of any kind is never something I respect. I don’t know, I guess I’d say that for the most part, success in this world is earned. Whether you are black, white, hispanic. I see this every day working in an underfunded Boston middle school. The playing field isn’t always level, but opportunities exist for everyone. There are no easy answers other than we all need to stop labeling each other, take a look in the mirror, and realize that we all come from the same source. Let’s all be sure Kirkwood grows stronger out of this tragedy.

Maybe the one story in the weekend P-D said it all. It was talking about how an elderly gentleman (a man of colour, a resident of Meacham Park, a friend of Cookie’s) advised Cookie to “just let it go.” The elderly man continued, “They say he lost his mind. But what it really was was hate. He let hate take over. Once you let hate get ahold of you, there is no turning back.” Very wise words. And maybe words we should all remember as we try to work through this tragedy.

My deep felt symapthy goes out to ALL the families of this senseless tragedy, Whitedebra.
#282 & #290…………….I am appalled. With a mind set like that, whats to stop a tragedy of this nature in the future??????

“Thornton could not take personal responsibility for his problems, his marriage, his bankruptcy, the tickets he incurred, and made a decision that was not characteristic of the Cookie Thornton most people knew in his younger years. “- Ben

This quote represents the sad truth about what happened. Cookie Thornton did not “go to war” like his brother stated. Cookie Thornton massacred innocent people. Going to war does not mean gunning down police officers and UNARMED citizens. I would also like to point out that Cookie’s brother, Gerald, is a convicted killer. He served 5 years after pleading out to manslaughter charges. He stabbed a man to death. So, this might better explain his warped attempts to justify Cookie’s murderous actions. What a sad, tragic legacy these two men have left for their family.

I, like many are heartbroken. My heart breaks for the police officers and their families and for the councilmembers that were slain on this most fateful day.

Sometimes somenone walks into your life and with few words said, you automatically know that you like them. The longer you know them, the more you realize what a shining example they are, of everything that is good, decent, fair, honest and kind. They are everything that is right in the world.

To Ken Yost, an integeral part of the glue that held the City of Kirkwood, together, you will be missed

It has been a privilege and a pleasure to work with you.

MAP

Our beautiful Kirkwood has lost its leadership and their families have lost a great deal more. As a former long-time resident of Kirkwood, my heart breaks for the community and the families that lost so much. The first feeling was one of shock and disbelief. Then acceptance, and now the resolve that Kirkwood will continue to be the great community that it is, now in honor of those who have been lost in a most tragic way.

My prayers are for the families, as their grief must be beyond measure.

Metha D. Sizemore
San Francisco, CA
Former Kirkwood Reisdent

My deepest condolences to the friends and families of all affected by this horrific event. As a former Kirkwood resident and KHS graduate (1980), I am in shock that such an event could happen in my childhood hometown. I always believed Kirkwood was a town where nothing really bad happened, but that belief has been shattered. My prayers are extended also to the Thornton family who must deal with this as well. I was very impressed with Mrs. Thornton’s public appearance and what she had to say - she is a very brave woman. Judgement is God’s job, please let us remember to reserve ours.

We currently reside near Springfield, Mo. but have lived near St. Louis for nearly 20 year before retirement. After learning the news of the killings I was deeply saddened and our thoughts and prayers go out to the families affected by this senseless violence. I became even more saddened and disappointed in the reaction from certain individuals who reside in the community where the murder resides. The murderers mother for instance seem to indicated the city was pushing her son to far or another individual who was quoted in the dispatch as saying the murderer was a “hero”. I do not understand! A hero! Because he murdered in cold blood five unarmed people for doing there jobs! Because “the murder” had parking tickets and felt the only way to resolve the problem was to kill. Isn’t this the same community where a police officer was shot because an individual felt the ambulance did not show up fast enough for a member of his family. You can not tell me other communities have people who do not feel they should get parking tickets or wish the ambulance would arrive quicker in an emergency but do not react in this way. Where is the out cry from MP criticizing this behavior as just plain wrong. The murderers who committed these crimes as just plain evil. Instead of yes they are wrong BUT there was some justification. Come on! Take some responsibility. Quit blaming others and to some degree justifying the actions of wrong doing or miss deeds. The problem is not just the individuals committing the crimes but a community in someway justifying these actions.

I am a middle-class, white 38 year old woman, who loves the Kirkwood community. I shop there regularly and all my children went to preschool at Kirkwood United Methodist. I am stunned and deeply saddened by what happened on Thursday night. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family, friends, and co-workers of all that lost their lives, including Cookie Thornton. I did not know Mr. Thornton, but by spending hours on the internet researching this story the past several days, I believe he felt hopeless. However, he made a conscious decision to use violence after the courts did not rule in his favor. He could have sought legal counsel. He could have asked for help from civil liberty organizations both locally and nationally. He could have taken his case to the media. He could have written to reporters at the Post Dispatch. I could go on and on. The fact is he CHOSE violence. He is a part of our American culture that does not value human life. Many Americans want to put their hands in the sand on this issue. I am repeatedly seeing it over and over, and it breaks my heart! Life is a miracle and a gift from God. Human life should by highly respected for all races, all creeds, all nationalities, all ages, all mental capacities, all abilities. Our country does not have laws in place that value life, and hence no matter how hard we try to raise our children in a culture of life, all they constantly see is the culture of death and slaughter of innocent life. Even my young daughters (all under the age of 13), whom my husband and I are trying to raise to by God-fearing, productive, and caring American citizens are being desensitized to all the slaughtering. They just make remarks “oh, it is just another shooting”. My God! What are we doing to our way of life! Do we want to continue to watch our great country implode from within, because of lack of morals and mutual love and respect! My fellow Americans please wake up and stand up for all human life, so we can stop this! Innocent people who were trying to make a positive difference in this world are being killed! These people were democratic public servants who were not becoming rich or inflating their egos, but simply wanted to better their community. For their service, Mr. Thornton consciously decided their lives were not worth anything! Absolutely nothing can justify what he did, and now he is facing his final judgement in the Court of God, again choosing to represent himself in a court of ultimate law! May God bless the grieving community, and may we finally learn as a nation what needs to be done to stop this violence against life! Let us please that all the deceased do not die in vain, work on solving the underlying problems present in Kirkwood.

My last sentence in comment #326 was mistyped. I should read, “Let us please all see to it that the deceased do not die in vain and work on solving the underlying problems present in Kirkwood.”

I am a life long Kirkwood resident(38yrs) and have attended several City Council mettings over the last two years for a variety of reasons.I saw Mr. Thorton address City council several times in that time.He was always given the chance to speak to City Council until he used profane language and threatened members of the council, then he was escorted out of the meeting.I also witnessed Mr. Thorton protess in front of City hall, also at the Kirkwood Commons.He even parked a vehicle in the parking lot of one of the coucil members businesses with a protest sign on the vehicle with expeltives and rude comments in my opinion.For this man to take the lives of these innocent people who were honestly trying to serve their communities is an act of complete cowardness that my mind can’t express in words.Contrary to prior coments white people in Kirkwood do get tickets when they attempt to park commecial vehicles in their driveway’s or on the residential street, it has happened to me alot.I just wish I was in that meeting so I could have tried to stop him somehow some way…what a coward!!!!!! I most likely would not be here to write this comment today. People and communities need to start taking responsibilty for there actions, quit giving excusses or reasons why.Prove your own excusses for your actions wrong!!! I can’t type anymore! God Bless the souls of the innocent victims!!!!!

just a follow up to my last comment, people and communities have been anexed and imminent domain has taken part of there communities all over this town, hell since Americans moved west.Take Bridgeton missouri with the airport, or hwy 141 affected several towns, this is not a reason to slaughter innocent people.Kirkwood Commons was placed where it was due to proxcimity and access to highway exits.

This whole scenario is disgusting. Mr. Thornton failed as a businessman and decided he was above the law. He alone decided that he was being violated when his friends told him otherwise. After listening to the comments from his brother, mother, and wife, I am convinced that they think he was a victim. He was NO VICTIM. Mr. Thornton took it upon himself to MURDER innocent members of the community who pledged to uphold the law. He himself decided to defy the laws on the books. This is a perfect example of people who will do anything to paint themself as a victim. Go get your prayer vigils, and throw roses all over the place and plead for folk to ‘come together’, and then go talk to the victims’ families who died in this mass murder and ask them, “Ok, we did the prayer thing and the vigil and threw flowers, did that bring your loved one back? I mean, we really tried hard and prayed hard, did that bring them back???”

My heartfelt prayers for the entire community of Kirkwood. I have been praying for the Mayor since he is still fighting for his life. I pray for a full recovery for him, that he truly will be a walking miracle of God. I pray for each person affected by this…healing for them…and that they would know the Love of God in the midst of pain.
This is not and should not be a race issue. I don’t want to hear another story about how Cookie Thornton was treated unfairly, maybe he was, and that is not right…but…you don’t kill to justify your actions. If he was a true religious man like we hear then…well… true Chrsitians don’t commit cold blooded murder. Period.

Lord help us to forgive. Please heal our nation, communities, and homes. Let us be the people of God we are supposed to be. Help us Lord to walk in peace towards all men and to PRAY for those in authority. May Cookie’s wife heal and be helped through this. Let the rest forgive and seek God! God heal our land in Jesus name!!!!

I pray that there will be forgiveness for this terrible tragedy that will lead to healing. Without forgiveness for Mr. Thornton, there will never be healing, for any of us. Yes, what he did was awful and there is not excuse that will make it right, but he was still a child of God and I pray that he will receive Ultimate Forgiveness and that he rests in the arms of his Savior this day. I pray too that the victims are resting in Jesus arms also. We are all sinners, no sin is greater than another and no sin is too large for Christ to forgive. Thank you Lord for forgiveness.

I am sending well wishes to the mayor and the other victims of this horrible crime. I pray for the city of Kirkwood. It is so sad Mr. Thorton was unable to find a city official that was willing to help him. Perhaps forgive him of a few of the parking tickets and arange a payment plan for the remaining balance. Someone could have stated he would do well in a volunteer position in the mayor’s office. It seems Mr. Thorton was a regular at the meetings, so could he not have been asked to past out the agenda or something. City officials have to address the citizen with respect regardless of how loud and angry they may seem. Mr. Thorton wanted attention, he wanted to be heard and someone should have taken a few minutes to listen and help him in some small way. Instead he had to get attention in a very wrong way and every city official who came into contact with him and did nothing to help is responsible for his actions.
However; I do not feel Mr. Thorton is any hero and I do not think anyone should justify his wrongs, Kirkwood may have race issues and the town needs prayer and events to bring people together, but by no means should be justify Mr. Thorton’s deeds because the town has race issues or other problems. Thus. I pray for Kirkwood and I hope the mayor will recover and change the view of the town.
Also, to Mr. Thorton’s brother Gerald, please close your mouth, since you have nothing to say. It would be better for you to have no comment then to use your brother’s mass murder as an opportunity to get some spotlight attention. Mr. Gerald Thorton, your brother was not at war with the city of Kirkwood, he was a war with his childhood, his adulthood and his failures, just like you seem to be in the same state. Do not use your brother’s action for your own sorry excuse and feelings about your own failures.

Again, I pray for the city of Kirkwood and for recovery of its mayor.

I commented earlier on Thursday when the killings/tragedies first happened. All I can say now is read comment #318, he couldn’t have put it better (words from someone who seems to have known Kirkwood in and out), very well spoken.

Well said, #333. I just wanted to point out that the Mayor and the City of Kirkwood DID forgive Mr. Thorton’s parking tickets. They were so tired of Mr. Thorton’s oubursts and disrespect at the meetings… and finally they did forgive the tickets (although Mr. Thorton received them for disobeying laws that all other residents of Kirkwood are expected to follow).

However, it became a matter of “principle” for Mr. Thorton. He stated that he wanted an apology letter from the City of Kirkwood. Excusing him from paying the accumulated fines wasn’t enough.
Mr. Thorton had some warped sense of entitlement; expecting to be above the law and not face the consequences. I am so tired of hearing his estranged wife talk about what a “brave, good man he was.” Mr. Thorton took the coward’s way out. A brave, good man doesn’t slaughter unarmed city offcials at a public meeting. And what about Mr. Thorton’s daughter? That poor child… having to grow up now in the shadow of her father’s murderous actions. He wasn’t thinking about her either, when he went on his rampage. He didn’t care about anyone but himself.

I grew up in Kirkwood. Today I live in Germany. The events that took place in Kirkwood hit the media here on Saturday. When I opened the paper and read about the shootings in City Hall I could hardly believe this took place in my Kirkwood. It’s so tragic and so awefull that the world comes to know Kirkwood as a place where such evil takes place.

I went to school with “Cookie”. He must have become a whole different person over the years. His act was not an act of God (as his mother stated) it was an act of the devil. Mr. Thornton let the devil into his heart and acted as such.

I am schocked and so saddened that Kirkwood is in such pain. My hopes and prayers are that healing takes place and nothing like this ever happens again.

I want to express my deepest sympathies to the mourning families and friends of the victims. Also to the others who were present as the shootings took place and are now traumatized. I hope that all, over come this very sad and difficult time.

My deepest sympathy to the Kirkwood community as a whole. To the friends, family and co-workers of those killed and injured, I pray that Christ hold’s each of you in His loving arms and comforts you now and as we move forward each day. I know that Kirkwood is a community of heart, but as a reminder, the families have many people surrounding them now…but as the days go by, I hope the community will continue to support them forever. Dealing with any tragedy is always difficult; compound that tragedy, such as in this case and it is even more difficult. The Police have backstoppers, which is a wonderful organization, that stays in touch with families and helps them through many difficult times. But I don’t know of a group that helps elected officials and others who were injured. The motto ”lest we forget” should be in everyone’s heart and mind, not to remember the tragedy, but to comfort and help those who are left behind and remember those who are not. God’s grace and Peace to all who were touched by this, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Somehow when the first news came over the TV that a shooting had occurred in the City Chambers
I knew that we had lost Connie, a call later to a informed source confirmed that other friends were safe but that Connie was probably gone. What a horrible waste of a very hopeful and kind life.
Connie, you are missed !

Thank you 318.
This was not about race iust a human out of control.

Connie Conroy Karr was a friend of our family. We worked together for years as reporters for the St. Louis Globe-Democrat and Connie was one of the most dynamic, witty people I’ve also met. She was also a born leader, and played an active role in helping right some serious wrongs committed by former publisher Jeffrey Gluck, who was eventually removed as trustee of the newspaper. Connie was also a fun person and we reminisced about the good times at Globe-Democrat reunions. I enjoyed talking Cardinal baseball with her and her ex-husband Rick Hummel at the Missouri Bar and Grill. My wife and daughter had the pleasure of talking to her in Kirkwood just before Christmas and I looked forward to seeing her at the next Globe reunion. She will be missed by all of those who knew her and enjoyed her friendship, leadership and wonderful sense of humor.

God bless mthe Kirkwood Five .
God bless the entities that actually stop the next round before it starts -
will anyone stand up to corrupt police polititians in Union Mo., or Florissant ,everyone knows that the justice system is a joke here there and everywhere ,stand up before blood shed,tryth before murder

I lived in Kirkwood for 38 of my 39 years and feel a deep conection to this tragedy and all lost . My heartbreaks for the families, the children of lost parents, the community. Kirkwood is a wonderful place to live. I hope to move back someday. My deepest heartfelt sympathy to everyone.

As a former resident of Webster Groves, neighbor to the Biggs family and schoolmate to Mike, I feel so saddened by what has happened. May peace find all who has been affected by this. God bless the families, dear friends and communities who have been trying to deal with this tragedy.

Cookie was not a victim…he was not harassed! Cookie was selfish individual, and more importantly Cookie was breaking the law! He was not discriminated against. There is no reason to bring race into this to distort the picture. Cookie was breaking the law, and deserved his fines! When people build without license and park their commercial vehicles in front of others’ houses they are being inconsiderate and selfish, and in Kirkwood, breaking the law. Cookie didn’t want to follow the rules…he wanted special treatment and threw the race card out there when he didn’t get it! This was not about race…this was about a selfish, self-centered man, who threw temper tantrums when the city of Kirkwood enforced its laws!

I was very sad to hear of the tragic event that had occurred in kirkwood. To all the loved ones of those who suffered from this happening I am truly very sorry

my prayers are with all the friends and family hurting after this terrible event. Its sad smelne felt murder was the answer to frustration and anger. Hopfullu public meetings can b made safer an we can learn from this so it doesn’t hppen again

My deepest sympathies to Cathy and family. As a high school friend of Ken’s, I can truly say that he was always a true gentleman. I never once saw him angry and never heard him say an unkind word about anyone. Keeping in touch with Ken and Cathy over the years through our mutual Christmas cards has created memories that I will cherish.

My condolenses go to the families of those who are affected by this tragedy. Hopefully the city of Kirkwood including its members of public office and citizens of the community. I am a resident of Kirkwood at 450 West Adams Avenue and have only lived here five years. I lived near Big Bend Boulevard with my parents back in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. I hope that Kirkwood police and city government officials will work together to make our government offices a safer place to have public meetings in the near future. In the meantime, I send my prayers and hope that the citizens affected including family members will find comfort and peace from the hand of God.

From,
Louis “Louie Chiodini

If there is any ‘up-side” to this horrible tragedy, at least the innocent victims’ families will not have to endure a long court process. They will not have the healing process delayed for years by murder trials that are then thrown-out, over-turned and appealed by a man who says he was misunderstood, discriminated against and/or in a ‘trance.”
After this week’s funerals, the families can begin the long, lengthy process of healing. They won’t have that process disrupted 2-3 years from now when the trials would have begun. They won’t have to relive the heartbreaking facts over and over again thru court testimony. They won’t have to listen to the defendant attempt to “justify” or excuse himself or make the true victims out to be the villians. No appeals to be heard and no dreadful feelings of any future probation hearings. They will never have to fear leaving their home ten or so years from now and running into the murderer… free as a bird.

My heart breaks for the families of the Fallen Five.
They were first-class human beings who will be treated as such in heaven

I worked with Connie Hummel (Karr) at Maritz and just wanted to say what a light she was. She always had such a wit and a quick smile. My prayers go out to her husband, Lauren, her family, and the entire Kirkwood community. God’s gain is our loss.
Mariellen Jacobs
Acworth, GA

Kirkwood has always been one of my favorite & cozy towns in the St. Louis area. 2008 will be remembered for this unfortunate incident, but this town will without question bounce back to life. You can count on it. It simply has too much to offer. Regardless of what storm passes through, the people will stand strong and support each other.

God speed to the souls lost.

i know the whole thornton family they are very sweet people i will pray for the fallen families as well as the thorntons may God heal and bring peace on Kirkwood and Meacham Park that they may come together soon thank you Regina Drayton

Tuesday I took time to honor the memory of Officer Tom Ballman. I did the simplest of things by standing on the sidewalk along Claymont Dr, hat in hand held across my heart, to pay honor to his memory and respect to his family as the funeral procession drove by following the service at his church. I met and spoke with Major Antoinette M. Filla, Assistant Chief of Detectives from the St. Louis Police Department. No finer representative could the City of St. Louis had sent than the Major. This lady. Very human, and filled with very human emotions. It was a sad occasion that brought me into contact with the Major, though meeting her reminded myself our shared humanity. Our shared loss a member of the community. Her shared loss of one of their own members of the family of police offices.

It’s hard to imagine the mental frame of anyone who’d go to the extremes that causes a person to abandon their sense of humanity. To forget those who are your family who’ll live with the shame of your actions is incomprehensible. That no one in this persons immediate life couldn’t recognize their loved one’s precipitous fall from the ranks of caring, loving, husband, father, son, brother, is equally confounding. I suppose though, that unless you’ve lived in that persons life, it’s outside anyone’s reasoning to sit in awe that his immediate family didn’t recognize this dangerous rage that was building internally in his heart and soul and mind. That no one could, or would had said, “Cooksie, don’t go there tonight”. Had no one known his intentions that day? That his humanity was slipping away that day?

Overlooked by the media is who it fell the responsibility of having to stop a killer in his tracks. For killer is what he became from the ranks of a disgruntled citizen. A tragedy unfolding that required a man or a women, we don’t know who, sanctioned by the state to wear a uniform of the Kirkwood Police who now bears the knowledge their training was called upon to an action few of us could perform. More than likely a person who never before had cause to draw their service pistol, much yet use for it’s real intended purpose. Deadly force. The ripple goes on. How does that officer now deal with the knowledge they were required to take a life? That there was no humanity left in this person committing these senseless acts it required…another killing. I can’t imagine what that officer had to feel, or is feeling today.

The wonder of reading everyone else’s viewpoints isn’t whether your viewpoint is right or wrong. There are expressions of rage, sadness, hopelessness, and distress. There are expressions of love and prayers, of hope and redemption. Even finger pointing who’s to blame, who’s responsible. However, the underlying current of each writers opinion says that you still have your sense of humanity. It’s why you’re outraged, sickened, disgusted, filled with sadness, or a sense of loss. It’s why you’ve written all your emotions on this subject. You have feelings. You still have a soul that tells you of an internal conviction. That you have a sense of humanity.

My convictions are that I have a responsibility to look at my heart and soul each and everyday to remember I have my sense of humanity in tack. And then I thank God for it, and pray that I never loss that feeling of humanity as one man did on one tragic night last week. That I always have, and maintain, my sense of humanity. It’s why I feel so very, very sad. For everyone affected.

ALL of Kirkwood is indebted to our community leaders who were slain by this evil act. We need to support the families of the murdered and begin to depend on the foundation of our community which is strong Families of Faith. In the midst of being greatly shaken we need to be ever vigilant in our efforts to increase our sense of true community by the necessary interdependence of our neighbors. The greatest tribute to the murdered is the further strengthening of our legacy of being a definitive middle American town. These 5 people devoted theirs lives to this legacy and its our incumbent on us, Kirkwood Residents, to be the example of how a community can survive and thrive in the midst of crisis. Talk to one another more Kirkwood! This is a time for growth within a rare community. Growth not in the sense of bigger buildings and better resturants but of the quality of our residents. The need to feel safe needs to be a given. The need to have a quality of life which is good for our children and our neighbors needs to be a given. But most of all we need to be a community of people who care about one another in a very true sense because we are neighbors and this is our town. God bless the families who have lost their most precious loved ones and God bless Kirkwood.

I am so sorry for the familes of each victim and the entire Kirkwood/Meacham Park neighborhood. I do hope that healing and positive change occur as a result of this terrible event. My sympathy will last for this community for an indefinite time.

I applaud Elliott Davis for the gentle manner her interviewed Cookie Thorton’s mother, but questioned why it took place so early in the interview while no other victim’s family member was approached. Certainly, Most understand the news must go on, but there should have been an exception in this instance. Also, the loss of a loved one is just that. The hurt is the same regardless of the circumstances. Hopefully, we do not become less humane pending a story line.

God BLess Kirkwood/Meacham Park and the St. Louis Metropolitan media.

I’m sorry to those of you who think this topic has been unfairly moderated. For your information, I have tried to do what I always do with the topics in the Talk of the Day. I have deleted posts that:
- were off topic (condolences for the victims).
- were blatantly racist.
- included personal attacks on other people on the board, or people involved with the story.
- used obscenity.

I have tried to allow a certain amount of latitude when people moved from pure condolences to related topics; perhaps that was a mistake. That said, I appreciate everyone’s participation and I will continue to moderate this forum under the criteria I mentioned earlier for another day before shutting it down.

Because of this horrific tragedy, let each and every one of us dedicate ourselves to having respect, decency and kindness to all of our fellow human beings and have that be our monument to those who died.

Bill, I tried to reply to you directly…but, alas, you left a bogus email address.

I remember as if it were yesterday, standing in front of Kirkwood Police Station, with my husband and two sons paying our respects to Sergeant McEntee. I remember getting there early and looking around at the very few folks that were there already. I looked at my husband and barely whispered – “They’re not coming. I can’t believe it. They’re not coming”. He, having grown up in Kirkwood (me being a transplant) just looked at me and said, “just wait”. Before I knew it there was literally standing room only. I remember telling my children the importance of the Community being there together because, God willing, this would be the one and only time we would experience this…. And now here we are – all over again – five times over.

My heart aches for the families of the victims (and even for the perpetrator). We have lost too much. The only question I keep hearing from my neighbors, my children, everyone - is Why?. We will never really know. I tell my kids that sometimes there just is no reason. We must acknowledge this but we must never accept this. To accept it will be to consider that it’s commonplace, that it just happens, that it’s an everyday occurrence and just something we have to deal with. These actions are anything but commonplace and they are never anything that I just want to “deal” with. We will get through it. To do less, would dishonor those who died so tragically. But accept it – never.

To those who keep saying, “and you thought Kirkwood was safe – look at all that’s happened recently”. Kirkwood is a safe, close knit community. The tragedies we have witnessed and gone through as a Community lately are just that – tragic. Look how we have responded. When was the last time you saw the world literally stop, even for a second, to pay respect to our citizens? For Kirkwood it would have been wrong for us not to stop. That’s what makes it different. That’s what makes us Kirkwood.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all of our citizens in Kirkwood, especially to those directly affected by this tragedy. To Mike – you literally have thousands of people praying for your speedy recovery. To the families of the other victims – you will never be alone. We are all here for you. May God Bless You All

I live in Kirkwood and wanted to express my sympathy to those who died or were injured, and their loved ones. What a sad loss.

I have been reading comments online, listening to other residents, listening to radio call-in shows, in an attempt to understand the sources of Cookie’s actions. I had seen him as a helpful citizen in Kirkwood youth support roles at Tillman School in the early 1990’s, but didn’t know him personally.

I listened to Magic 108 radio last Friday afternoon and a person referred to Cookie’s words at the scene, as “Shoot the Mayor”. The female radio DJ commented that this sentence gave her chills, wondering what was going on inside of Cookie, with such a statement. I wonder if this statement was a glimmer of a mental illness, such as schizophrenia. I read that this condition can bring on delusions of conspiracies, hallucinations, and more. It can be made worse by stress, and lack of medication/treatment.

If Cookie was as healthy as he was in the early 1990’s, I think we would have seen him continuing to focus on the proactive community support he showed in early years. Unfortunately, he seemed to become a different person. None of us will know if an illness or other stress contributed to his decision-making. What we can do today is learn more about such illnesses and what help is available, and to help bridge the distances between hurting citizens of our town.

#356 says “I applaud Elliott Davis for the gentle manner her interviewed Cookie Thorton’s mother, but questioned why it took place so early in the interview while no other victim’s family member was approached.”……. because it was HER son who murdered 5 unarmed citizens. There were “no other victims”…. sorry but Cookie was no victim in this massacre.

And in reference to the poster who asked how the police officer who shot Cookie must feel today, well; he should feel proud that he SAVED further innocent victims from being shot dead by Cookie. He saved lies by stopping Cookie; killing him in the process.

It seems crazy how one man can cause this huge effect of emotion on people’s lives . . . people who knew those who passed and people who had nothing to do with them. The whole area has been affected. I have a friend who has been severely affected by the tragedy and in turn, it has affected those around him and so on and so on. God will give us all strength and there will be good outcomes through all of it if we so choose to see it that way. Just remember to continue to think about family and friends every day. It is so important because relationships with people are all we truly have in this world. When you take everything else away, that is what is left. Love your friends, love your family, love your neighbors, and love your enemies. Be better people today, tomorrow and the next day. A smile goes a long way . . .

God bless the victims and the families of this horrific tragedy, and the public servants who remain … the surviving elected officials, City staff and Kirkwood’s police force, as they will long be affected by this tragic event.

To all municipal officials throughout metropolitan St. Louis, please let this serve as your call to research, examine, review, enforce, etc., anything and everything that will boost protecting your public servants - City staff and elected officials - from having to experience what Kirkwood is now going through. If someone wants to kill another person, there’s not much you can do to stop them, but by God, take whatever precautionary steps you can to deter that from happening. No one should have to fear their choice to serve their community - whether they are an elected official or a City employee.

Kirkwood’s been through a great deal in the last few years - I don’t think I’d be wrong in saying that the entire St. Louis metro area grieves with you.

Let me first state that the title of this is “CONDOLENCES FOR THOSE KILLED OR WOUNDED IN THE KIRKWOOD SHOOTING” - NOT please give me your opinion.

My prayers and thoughts go out the the victims families in the hard times ahead. May god be with you and your guardian angel guide you.

God Bless.

I was sickened & horrified by this murderous rampage committed to the innocents of Kirwood. It is especially painful that this was committed by a lone, selfish, arrogant man without a concience. He was given every opportunity to correct the problems that he & he alone facilitated. There aren’t many City Halls that would have put up with his irrational behaviour. And now, 5 innocent lives are taken from the St. Louis area and Kirkwood & their families must suffer. We all know where this murderer ended up & we know that the innocents are with God, in everlasting peace. I know that the Kirkwood community is strong and will over come.

h

To the poster, 363, who thinks people should merely give blessings and prayers to the victims and their families, that it is somehow inappropriate to explore one’s related emotions and reactions to the tragedy at the same time, please realize that not everyone simply chalks up such horrific events to some vague notion of God’s will, and not everyone can offer guardian angels as comfort. I do not wish to have a philosophical debate, but those lost in the City Chambers that night, their families and friends, are in my opinion more honored by an outpouring of emotion from the community members they served trying to make sense of what happened than they are by a generic God Bless. People have been saying “God Bless” for many years, and though the sentiment is surely heartfelt, terrible events continue. I think condolences come in many forms. Mine can be found by reading post 318. I encourage anyone who has something valuable to say about the tragedy to post their thoughts here.

My most heartfelt condolences to the families of my fellow Police Officer Brothers who paid the ultimate price one pays as a Public Servant. Thanks for your dedication to service. “We’ll take it from here”.

I also want to express my sadness to the familes of all the victims who were needlessly murdered, while serving their community.

Officer David Jacober, #1852 (Kirkwood Native)
Pueblo, Colorado Police Department
(DavidJacober@Comcast.Net)

Ken, I will miss you. I am so angry that this went down. You were a dedicated and helpful man, for all of these years. And this is your reward. What is wrong with us? Life can really be unfair. This will go down, without a doubt, as the darkest day of this community. Continue on, sure. But move on, I don’t think so. No rhyme nor reason. The innocence is gone forever.

It has been a week and I am still so sad for my new community.

I am a born-again Christian so I know there are evil spirits. I believe an otherwise good, gentle, and God-fearing man (according to reports from black and white Kirkwoodians) became possessed. I believe this may have happened the day before the killings when his latest lawsuit was dismissed. He snapped, the demonic forces at work took control. The voice that said “kill the mayor” was not the voice of a loving husband, father, community leader, businessman, and friend of Kirkwood. It is time for all Christians to pray because the collective shock I’ve heard but hasn’t been said, “if this could happen to someone like Cookie…..”

Did his family know? Yes they knew about his troubles with the city and his mother is reported as having told him to let it go. His wife pleaded with him to move his business to Florida. No one but God knows what took over and yes, I believe there were God fearing people who tried to step in and get him to move on. Did they know he was going to do what he did? No. Demonic spirits are very seductive. Cookie left his home in his usual jovial mood and usual salutation. There was nothing to cause his EIGHTY-THREE YEAR OLD mother to think anything differently. They are as shocked as the community at large, as shocked as the nation, as shocked as this new resident.

People seek answers. The answer is this, Jesus is coming back and the Bible says that in the last days, even the very elect (i.e. those Born-again, God-fearing, Bible-quoting, tithing, giving, loving Christians) can have their love wax cold. This is what I believe happened.

A community mourns and a community’s sins have been exposed for the world. A community should repent, not just trying to make MP atone and apologize, but everyone. Why should his (Cookie) widow be forced to apologize for actions she had no knowledge of, but as a gracious woman of God, she offered her sincere and heartfelt apology to the entire city. She also gave a plea to remember that they are victims too. Can you imagine your entire life being scrutinized? Can you imagine their daughter having to deal with the final legacy of her daddy? And his mother! For one, she is an eighty-three year old woman. She raised her children in Meacham Park, they are all college educated, made good citizens. She raised nine children, she nannied white kids and their kids. Come on people, have a heart. This elderly resident didn’t do anything wrong to be subjected to the scrutiny she has been subjected to by the court of public opinion.

In the end, I still feel sad. I will place luminaries on my yard. I will seek to do what I can for community reconciliation and understanding. I will continue to pray. I will continue to grieve. I am new here and for a brief moment, I wanted to move back to the house I still own in Lee’s Summit. Then I stopped and realized God placed me in Kirkwood for a reason. I pray for His leading and guiding of all of us in the days to come.

It has been a week, my plea for the city as the final memorials and funerals are coming to a close, please “seek peace and WORK to maintain it.” Psalms 34:14b

This is written on Valentine’s Day. I am 68 years old and I have lived in and loved Kirkwood all of my life. Because of this horrific tragedy, let each and every one of us dedicate ourselves to having respect, decency and kindness to all of our fellow human beings and have that be our monument to those who died.

Thank You So Much!

As a Virginia Tech employee who was VERY close to the situation 4/16, my heart goes out to you. I lost 5 people that day, including dear Librescu for whom I was suppose to interpret for that morning, and I can tell you from experience that one does not “get over” a tragedy of this scale.

Instead, as Dr. Steger said, the best you can hope for is to establish a “new type of normal”. As someone who has survived this nightmare, I do have some (unsolicited) advice: 1) stay away from the media. They are vultures and they won’t let facts interfere with their panting, yellow journalism. 2) Do not be tempted to blame anyone–administration, mental health professionals, or even the killer himself. It is the equivalent of blaming a hurricane and 3) Do not torture yourselfs with “what if”…especially if that “what if” leaves you feel guilty for surviving. 4) DO reach out to others, people who have been near the tragedy and who are the only ones who will understand. You’re family and friends mean well, but it is only those who were near the situation who willl truly understand and 5) if you are suffering any of the after -affect, for lack of a better description, PTSD, do not hesitate to get help. The sooner you attend to these sort of issues, the more effective your treatment will be.

Most of all, try not to feel guilty for being alive. People underestimate the horrible guilt associated with survival. Survival guilt is very real thing and needs to be addressed by somene who specializes in PTSD.

God love you…and God knows I’m thinking of you. April 16 is by worth the worst night of my life and I’ll never truly get over it. However, I am discovering ways of integrating my experiences into my soul–perhaps as a different level of compassion..not sure yet. I can tell you this: Virginia Tech is fully behind you!!

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[...] In short order, the Post-Dispatch’s site had posted videos, slideshows, audio interviews, a condolences blog, and an interactive graphic — along with five main stories and four sidebars. Much more [...]

[...] and in a variety of mediums from videos to numerous stories to slideshows, audio interviews, a condolences blog, an interactive graphic and [...]

[...] In short order, the Post-Dispatch’s site had posted videos, slideshows, audio interviews, a condolences blog, and an interactive graphic — along with five main stories and four sidebars. Much more [...]