What would it take to bring the Rams’ stadium up to where it needs to be? What improvements would you like to see in the venue?

A team that can do better than a 1-7 record at home, for starters.

It would be a huge loss for the area if the Rams where gone. We have lost one NFL team before (Cardinals) I sure don’t want that to happen again. That was some rough years around here for sure.

one of the biggest upgrades would be replacing the HORRIBLE SOUND SYSTEM AND THE CHOICE OF MUSIC PLAYED OVER IT.

Pretty hard getting fans fired up over Air Supply pumped out over Radio Shack amps and mono loudspeakers

I was an original PSL owner when the Rams first came to StL in 1995. Desite old Busch stadium not being ideal for football, I remember the excitement around the stadium when the team played their first few games there. I think all but one Thursday night game were played in glorious late summer/early fall Sunday afternoons. It was a awesome seen! I also remember being excited about the new dome facility but when the Rams eventually played Carolina in the inaugural game at the TransWorld-Dome, I felt something was lost going inside to for an NFL football game and I still feel the same. However, the dome was a nice building and at least we had NFL football again!

Several years later, my family and I moved to Kansas City and now I attend several Chiefs as well as 1 or 2 Rams games a year (sit in the same seats I had as a PSL holder). Although I continue to have a deep loyalty to the St. Louis Rams; in as much as I hate to say it, to me, the KC football experience is far superior that of St. Louis. The reason??? Simply put, Arrowhead stadium is a true football facility. Some suggest that Kansas City is a football town with more passionate football fans while St. Louis is four square a baseball town. I love the Cardinals as much as anyone born and raised in St. Louis but I don’t buy into the notion that Chiefs fans are in anyway better than Rams fans. I’ve been to Rams games when the building was rocked to its foundation. It’s a venue difference – nothing more.

Now the Rams are starting to look at the facility agreement and some questions are being raised. Potentially making matters worse for Rams fans, the cross state rival (KC Chiefs) are getting an upgrade to an already better venue. Arrowhead stadium is in the middle of an estimated $375 million renovation project that should be complete before the 2011 season. If the Rams really start to get tough with St. Louis’ contractual obligations for timely stadium “standards” improvements, Rams management doesn’t even need to leave the state for a glaring “rule of thumb”. Not good when team ownership could also potentially end up in question.

What I think it would take to bring “the Rams stadium” up to standard:

All in all, I still think The Ed is potentially a very nice venue for the Rams and their fans. The first thing I think needs to happen to bring the build up to the obliged “standards” is getting rid of the roof. I don’t know if it’s possible to retrofit the dome but a retractable roof would go a long way to meeting the “standards” required. With a retractable design, convention needs would still be met with the roof capability and the Rams could play in a more appropriate and exciting open-air football venue. Next…with the planned upgrade to the video/audio system this year - DON’T go cheap. Make the video system something that enhances the football experience and make sure it’s integrated into a superior sound system. For the life of me, I don’t understand how the current video and sound systems were ever thought to be acceptable. The audio/PA system has been horrendous since day one and watching anything on the antiquated video board is pointless. Better stadium entrance and exit access would be good too.

Sounds like the folks (i.e. Convention and Visitors Commission) looking into what improvements can be made are challenged with no simple fixes so I guess the other option is to start over and build new. I’m afraid that ultimately everyone will realize that The Ed was built to be multi-purpose facility first and a football stadium second. As such, the dome may be beyond reasonable/cost effective renovations for NFL “standards”. It might a good idea to start thinking new now and not tinker much with the dome.

This is a tough challenge for St. Louis and Rams fans but I definitely think it’s worth doing what it takes to keep the Rams in St. Louis. Think big St. Louis! Do something in a football stadium that brings civic pride in the way old Busch and now the new Busch stadium does.

And if you have a chance and really enjoy football, I would definitely suggest you Rams fans try to get to at least one Chiefs game soon – you’ll see what I mean.

Go Rams!!!

Hey, it’s a valid topic for a blog, but it is kind of crazy to worry about pimping up a sports venue when we have a serious chance at losing most of the capital belonging to the american economy if things keep on the same path.
How about that misogynistic catholic priest trying to gain street cred at Hillary, and every other thinking person’s expense? Pale male guilt going too far? Or just a guy trying to bed some black guys? Now to me…there’s an issue that needs to be refurbished soon. Forgive you father…for you have sinned! Jesus wept…

I would rather have a root canal without anesthesia than watch 30 seconds of a pro football game.

They’re bums.

In fact, I’m told ‘NFL’ now stands for ‘New Felons League’.

What moron wrote up that lease? While I think that the Rams business should own and manage their own @#@!#@! building, the city entered into this agreement knowing what was going to be coming.

If the city wants to keep the team, then they need to increase the city of St. Louis taxes and get to work.

Personally, I could care less. Football is an overrated sport. Why on earth does it take an army of players to stand around 90% of the time and slap each other’s butts?

With all the new stadiums being built, the only way this team will stay is if a local buyer is found and/or a new stadium is built but then WE will have to pay for it, the push will be about all the great shops and restaraunts that will be set up around the stadium and downtown will once again become a booming place and them we will have two stadiums with giant mudholes next to them. At least we’re consistent…………
First, I was a PSL owner for the first 10 years the tean was here and I agree with an earlier posting that the place did rock, WHEN THEY WERE WINNING. But we are basically talking about 2, maybe 3 years of that out of the 12 they will have been here. We gave up our tickets for two main reasons: 1)They are not fun to watch, this team is managed by a bunch of clowns. Everytime you read about the Rams front office the word dysfunctional is used. Look at all the number one picks we have just thrown away in the last few years or the ridiculous reaches we have made with 2nd and 3rd round picks…Successful teams are not this dumb.
2) The dome is one of THE most depressing places I have ever been in to watch a sporting event. The sound system is horrible, the music is pathetic and, at least when we still attended the games, there was a friggin’ commercial over that lousy system EVERY time there was a break in the action. It just starts to wear on you. It is a cold place with no excitement or atmosphere.
One thing I will say, our tix were in the upper bowl and I think they did a great job with the site lines. I don’t think there is really a bad seat in the house but it’s just too depressing of an atmosphere. The overall experience of attending a football game here is not enjoyable and we are big football fans but I would rather watch it on TV than go thru the pain of having to sit in that stadium for 10 Sundays,(preseason included).

Let’s see. The Dome is, what? twenty years old? And it needs major updates or needs to be replaced? And either option will cost scads and scads of money, a lot of which will come fom public funds? Give me a friggin break! I wouldn’t support a penny tax per year for this stupidity! Wake up, folks! Stop playing hostage to the spoiled cry-babies (oops, I meant sport teams.) If the Rams go, they go. Why don’t we put the same enthusiasm (and bucks) into public works and rehabbing the city and adjacent areas?

On the other hand, if this latest assinine idea flies, have I got a deal for you! My house is nearly 60 (oh my god, SIXTY) years old. I can’t possibly live there anymore. Can I get public funding for a basic gut-and-replace? Or maybe you guys can build me a brand new house with all the bells and whistles? After all, my dog is, like, major athletic type and could provide you with hours of entertainment. (Let’s put it this way. Her ‘win” record is one hell of a lot better than our pro teams….)

The Ram’s Stadium should either stay where it is, be turned into public parking for eyesores like Lumiere Casino, be repaired/replaced with ONLY private money or hit the road. If it is a viable money maker, capitalism should step up to the plate and take its best shot. St. Louis is getting a rep as a city of suckers.

Ed

I’ve never attended a Rams game, and I have no interest in “professional” football. (Don’t know if the Rams qualify here. After reading some comments above, I think NOT!) Some are saying the convention business might pick up if the Rams were to vacate the convention center, that their “void” would open up the market for more conventions. Don’t know if this is true, but it sounds plausible. Maybe a new stadium should be built on Ballpark Village property, which would centralize the “sports” venue, taking advantage of existing ballpark parking, etc. There’s another new garage under construcion a few blocks from Ballpark Village property, which would further accommodate Rams fans. (If the Rams were a winning team, I doubt we’d be having this discussion: the owners and the City would be throwing money at the existing facility because of the revenue they’d be generating. But this ain’t the case!)

Build a real football field, OUTSIDE, NO ROOF! Domes make football depressing.

I find this “better, best” stadium issue quite subjective. What makes one stadium better than another in the eyes of the team?

The crowd? Here in fair-weather football St Louis that will be based on the product on the field.

Suites? It seems like there are two levels of suites at the Dome. What would be better than that, all suites? Perhaps then a name-change to the Embassy Suties Dome?

Jumbotrons? Really–is that all that important?

Retractable roofs? Maybe.. Then again maybe not if the weather every game day is such that you cannot retract the roof. And just think–no bird crap to deal with!

Padded seats? I wouldn’t complain about that.

Again, what makes one stadium better than another?

I must agree with many people about the sound system and the choice of music, but those are minor things that can be changed with a less than a million dollars and someone under 50 picking the music.

I read the article, and it piqued my curiosity, but it’s missing Many relevant facts.

How much did the Edward Jones dome cost? How was it financed? Is it paid for yet? How much would the new dome cost? How would it be financed? How much tax money is brought in by the dome? Do the Ram’s and others enjoy deferred taxes?

Keep in mind, just $200 million would be $565 of tax money for every man, woman and child in the city of St. Louis (Pop. 354,000 ). That much tax money would go a LONG way to fixing the schools, the roads, the crime, etc. It’s fine if this money is an INVESTMENT, but not if it’s an EXPENSE. Will the city get it’s money back? With interest? If not, they would be better served by spending the money elsewhere.

Because in the end, I would prefer St. Louis be known as a great place to live rather than a cesspool with a really cool stadium.

I tired of STL football teams threatening to leave town because of a stadium. I don’t see anything wrong with this one. They want more luxury boxes. But, where’s the need? There’s not enough big corporations left in town that could want any of the additional luxury boxes. And the NFL most certainly never award a Super Bowl to this city. So, instead of the taxpayers footing the bill for another stadium. I propose a city/county co-op be created and those taxes that would have been used to build a new stadium, be used instead to buy Frontiere’s share of the Rams.

There’s not a darn thing wrong with the stadium now. If the family that owns the team doesn’t like it, they’re free to go elsewhere.

Rip the roof off. This would put an end to the little old ladies doing needlepoint in the 4th quarter of tie game in November and allow the shirtless, blue & gold afro-wigged superfans to really get into whats going on. Domed stadiums have killed true the NFL atmosphere, at least in St. Louis. Uniforms are supposed to be dirty after football games. FYI–I do love little old ladies….just not in endzone seats at NFL games .

I have never been a big rams fan. In this day and age of higher prices for everything, I don’t want to see a tax increase for anything. When sports teams are paying out multi-million dollar salaries for players, with or without all of the scandals breaking out with players getting into all sorts of trouble, like they have no sense at all. Hell if they want to leave because we, the working stiffs, can’t afford to pay higher taxes so they can have a new stadium, i’ll come over and pack their bags for them! — if it isn’t the blues then it is the cardinals and now the rams! Enough is enough! ! !

Let there be light! Keep the dome, do what it takes to allow for a retractable roof. A retractable roof would allow sunlight, and a tangible football atmosphere, i have great memories of watching football at busch stadium 2. Snow games, sunny sundays, even rainy games, you still would have fresh air and if there was actual grass, i wouldn’t know what to do. The other improvement would be to lose those annoying commercials that they blare throughout the breaks in play. So lose the dark dank basement looking environ and figure out a different way to squeeze another buck from the paying customer.

You amer-u-cons talk like you have the money to do this jock box up right. You do not. Thanks to your white house whores WE have all the money needed to do it right. And your behavior makes it so we will not give you loans for such a foolish thing. Silly people! You no longer rule the world and your children will be eating out of our hands. We may treat them right, or we may treat them like you treat the rest of the world. Clue: football is the least of your citizen’s worries. Food and shelter are lacking in your city. Yet you want to caress each others’ balls. What does it take for amer-u-con brains to engage and build a great nation like ours, with wealth and a future?

The only way to “make it right” would be to tear it down and start over. If the Rams want to do that on their own dime, fine, but, as a taxpayer, I have no interest in helping them pay for brand spanking new facility every 20 or 25 years. The “investment” is simply not worth the “return”, especially if they’ll only be playing there a dozen times a year! (We already paid their ransom to get them here - they’re making more than enough now to pay their own way.)

If you only go NFL games because of the stadium you need to stay home. What we need is a team that provides excitement. The EJ dome is fine. There are a few improvements that could be made in the choice of music and such but the structure and contents are O.K. with me. Look at Green Bay’s stadium, it has a lot to be desired. It is surviving just fine. Look at the stadium the Chicago Cubs plays in. It’s not the venue of the game, it’s the quality time spent at the game.

Professional sports teams should be like any other business. They should either own their own building or look for something to rent that satisfies them. Taxpayers should never hold the burden of suppling a team with a home. I like everyone else wants to keep that Rams here in town. We can’t let a sports team hold taxpayers hostage until they get what they want with threats to leave.

If the Rams, or any team for that matter are winners or at least good contenders every year, They will pack the dome to the roof. It’s the team, not the building.

I could not care less if a team that pays an alcoholic murderer millions of dollars to entertain people leaves this town. Good riddance.

ExRTD makes an excellent point. If the Rams want a new stadium, let them finance it. Neither the City nor the County should participate. If the Rams don’t like the idea, let’s wish them well in LA.

I really enjoy the Rams, but the Dome makes it difficult to sit through a game.

It looks like a huge electronic football game. Far to clean and crisp for football. Build a new stadium - Outdoors - No roof.

I can appreciate revenue sources, but stop the constant commercial announcements and music. I was at a game when they announced commercials while an opponent was being treated for 10 minutes for a serious injury - I was embarrassed for the city.

I don’t know what the right answer is here. Obviously, keeping the Rams in St. Louis is very important to the overall value of the city. However, building a new stadium just to make good on a 30 year lease signed for the dome doesn’t make any sense. If you built a new stadium to make good at year 20, does that mean at year 30, when the lease is up, they can pick up and leave anyway? I would hope if they do decide to build a new stadium, they at least draw up a new lease and get rid of that ignorant requirement that it needs to be in the top 25% of all stadiums in the NFL.

And in response to Tom’s comment. Lambeau Field recently completed a $295 million redevelopment and is now one of the premier stadiums in the NFL. Not really a good example.

Hey DSpud, Tom’s other team supporting his theory was the Cubs and Wrigley field. The Cubs have a $400 million dollar overhaul in the works…. it’s just up in the air due to the team and stadium being for sale at the time.

As a dedicated Rams fan that has not missed a single home game (pre and regular season) I have a very defined and unique list of what is wrong with the Dome:

-Overall lack of unity with team identity. Color schemes in and out clash with the Rams. No unique Rams decor in or out of the dome. Example, the bathrooms are painted yellow and purple. Seriously?

-Poor concessions. Very little variety. Indepepndent stands a thrown in a clumsy claustrophobic manner throughout the Dome. Up until these supposed new renovations they didn’t even have debit card readers. The food they do offer is as ususal over priced and tasteless.

-Bad employees. The staff manning concessions are slow and seemingly untrained. Ushers are cold and unhelpful. As an example, my family has Cardinals season tickets as well. We’ve consistently made friends with the ushers for our areas. The same guy has been working our section of the Dome forever and I couldn’t tell you his name.

-Seemingly unfixable design flaws. To get in the Dome you must go in through one of a few “choke” points and go up escalators or stairs. This is poor design as it creates awkward bottlenecks instead of allowing fans a free stroll into the concourse. The concourses themselves are already small and cramped with the aforementioned independent vendor carts thrown in to make the situation more uncomfortable. Finally, the building was designed at possible the worst time for a Dome - right before the consistent use of windows and retractable roofs. I assume the accoustics fit in this category since they’ve never been able to work out proper sound.

-They’ve been using the same annoying entertainment for years. The Dancing Elvis video routine. The “rockstar” rigging with lights and smoke enterance. The use of smoke and fireworks in a Dome in the first place. No creativity at all put into the atmosphere beyond trying to bring in a few horrible live “jam” bands to play in the cramped concourses last year. I don’t want to see 50 year olds playing Proud Mary in an area theats horribly crowded.

And my list doesn’t even include how I’d fix it. But heres the question. Will the Rams listen to complaints like these or try their own methods of fixing the place up? I’ll say this, some of those fixes are easy with regard to decor and staff and concession. The built in flaws won’t be cheap or easy, which I think is why everyone talks about a new stadium. I’d imagine there has to be some sort of engineering fix to a few of those issues that would cost less than a new billion dollar stadium. I’m one of the rare persons that has no problem with public funding for sports venues. Like it or not, having professional franchises is part of what gives a city credibility in America these days. So I think a team and its city should be financially tied to one another not to mention they ususally direct the public revenue for the project from the money made in taxes off the stadium itself. And our city has the some of the highest taxes for its sports franchises. But if we can’t work out a fix or worse yet a new stadium, why not another route? When we were mulling the issue over for Busch, wasn’t there an opportunity for the team to jump the river? The decision was made that the team needs to be in downtown St Louis thanks to history, but I don’t think the Rams have that need. Other teams actually have there stadiums outside the city. Orchard Park New York, Irving Texas, Meadowlands New Jersey. Why couldn’t we get Illinois and East St Louis to throw money in for a retractable roof waterfront Stadium designed so that one side shows the panorama of the river and downtown St Louis? Couldn’t that work? They wanted the Cardinals, why wouldn’t they want an NFL team?

Bye Bye Rams.

This is insanity. I like football, but there is no way that the state and/or city should be spending this kind of money on a football team. If they want to move and let somebody else foot the outrageous bill, bon voyage. I’m happy to watch the best game available on TV each weekend. At least there won’t be anymore blackouts. People need to sober up.

I keep hearing I don’t want my tax dollars to go to a new stadium or fix up the old one.
The money used to build the current one came from a public vote in the city and county. The tax is on hotel rooms and rental cars. There was no increase in sales tax, personal property or real estate taxes to pay for the dome and convention center. I don’t know why this fact is always over looked by the media. If you stayed in a hotel or rented a car in St Louis City or County then you payed the tax.
The arguement that the money would go along way to help pay for schools, roads and reduce crime is an invalid one unless you put a proposal on the ballot to increase taxes to pay for it and that probably won’t happen. The taxes on the hotel/rental cars is ear marked for tourism and projects that bring conventions/tourists to the area. This is the way the tax proposal was written and it currently law and cannot be changed. The money the county put into the baseball stadium came from this fund. The money was just piling up sitting there and the county could not do anything with it because it had to be spent for a specifice purpose.
If a new stadium or improvements would be paid for by a similiar tax on hotels/rental cars and/or a tax on restaurants in “enterainment zones” (see Dallas Texas) I would vote yes tomorrow.
However, if it is a tax on personal property or my real estates taxes then no I will not vote for it. My monthly mortgage payment went up $70 this month because my St Louis County taxes went up $840 last year, I am tapped out on taxes.

Bottom line is that St. Louis needs to keep the Rams. This will require a new stadium. An NFL team provides significant exposure around the country to our city. However, this debate is somewhat silly. The city will not let the Rams walk. The team will stay and we’ll be better off for it.

All major league sports are legalized extortion operations, I’m sorry to say. Most markets lose money and the only way for billionaire owners to make a profit is through public subsidies, i.e. taxpayer funding. If I owned the Rams, I would play that game, too. After all, it’s perfectly legal!

Why doesn’t LA have a football team? It’s so other teams can threaten to move there if the taxpayers don’t pay up.

Can a city buy a team to keep it from moving? Nope. The league won’t allow that. They don’t want any other Green Bays out there playing at old cheap stadiums.

The whole deal is about socializing risk and privatizing reward. We won’t be able to keep playing this game and neither will the good folks of Indianapolis or Dallas, since their new billion dollar stadiums will be out of date in another fifteen years or so just like ours (supposedly) is now.

It’s time to stop letting sports teams hold cities hostage. If the Rams need a new stadium every 20 years, then let them go. If the baseball Cardinals need a new stadium in 18 years, then let them go. You can’t afford to take your family to these places any way so why build a new stadium.

As far as I know the Rams ownership have not made any threats to move the team if the team don’t get a new stadium.This seems to be something put on by the local media to stir up a hornest nest.I support the Rams,but if they need a new stadium,let them pay for it out of their’s own pocket.The city taxpayers have been shafted long enough by the area’s sport teams.PS-I been a citizen of St.Louis City all my life.(50 years)

Im just glad to be a Cowboy fan

For starters, St. Louis needs an outdoor stadium or least one with a retractable roof. I think football is best played outdoors and crowds are better when it is outdoors. While crowds have been great in the dome, they still don’t compare to those rowdies at old Busch (a baseball stadium). St. Louis needs a new stadium an outdoor one, build it and they will come.

Build a glorious new stadium like they are doing in Indy and Dallas! I loathe the Rams, yet I will happily help pay for it with my tax dollars or whatever. I am from the east coast and before ever coming here, I had always heard of St. Louis being one of the greatest American cities. Upon arriving here, I found a city struggling mightily to keep up with it’s historical image. Although it’s a small piece of the puzzle, I believe an NFL franchise is needed to be seen as one of the key American cities. That may be an unfortunate reality, but the Cardinals are certainly a key reason why St. Louis is known around the world. That Dome is awful, and many people have felt that way since the moment they laid eyes on it. Use it for conventions, WWE, Promise Keepers, or whatever. Build a brand freakin’ new stadium. A true NFL stadium, and keep that team in St. Louis.

kdunlap - Taxes, to use an economics term, are fungible - there’s a finite supply of tax dollars that people are willing to pay. While the current stadium is primarily funded by taxes paid by tourists (mostly because there’s a convention center attached to the dome), there’s no reason to assume that a new one would be financed the same way. The other reality is that if the millions of dollars now being collected from tourists weren’t being spent on the dome/convention center complex, the same revenues could be used on other, potentially “more-worthy” projects that would have a greater positive impact on local residents. Bottom line, a tax is a tax, whether it’s dedicated to a defined use (Police salaries, Metrolink or a stadium) or if it’s general revenue given to the politicians to distribute as they see fit - it’s still money out of all of our collective pockets!

2 Questions - 1. Who was responsible for the lease provision about keeping the Dome in the top 25% of stadiums in the league? Did they not expect at least 8 new stadiums to be built in 20 years?
2. In the business that I work in, contracts and leases are re-opened an re-negotiated all the time. Couldn’t that clause be re-negotiated so that what would be required would be major overhaul of the Dome, rather than a complete re-build (probably the only way to bring it up to a top 25% venue?

I’d like to advise Scam Alert that even the Packers spent a tone of money on renovations to Lambeau field.

Putting a few pieces together is that this notion hasn’t been floated by the team yet and seems to be a talking point to drum up noise and paper sales. And finally, people talk like the idea is to pull funding out of schools for a new stadium. That simply isn’t the case, the taxes come from revenue generated by the stadium. It’s self sustaining and isn’t in the budget otherwise. Doesn’t the city own the Dome anyway? Who makes money from the lease agreement and other events held at the Dome? When motocross is here, the Rams don’t get that money. In the case of the Cardinals, isn’t the public funding a loan? Isn’t that money getting paid back through tax revenues?

People squak at this from the most simplistic angle. Its these mindsets that keep big business out of the region in todays world. Businesses work with the city to create a good economic climate benefiting the business and the city. These yahoos want business to just show up and get punished with high tax rates and like it. Thats smart.

I would prefer that the Rams up and left and hope the Cardinals follow them. There have been a number of studies done pointing out how much damage having a sports team does to the local economy. Here ia a link to one http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=9474&CFID=4263390&CFTOKEN=73238279. There are many others. Any politician who would spend tax money on a sports team is an idiot in my opinion. Its very simple economics. Some enterprises bring outside money into a community as do Boeing, Busch, and Chrysler. That increases the local standard of living for everybody. Other enterprises siphon wealth out of a community lowering the standard of living. The Rams and Cardinals are two of our leading examples. Tell me again where those hundred million dollar payroll checks are going.

Only in America do we think about spending $30 on a football stadium when people can’t afford groceries and gas.

I’m starting to think people are stupid enough to be getting what they deserve.

I believe a good sports franchise offers many intangible bonuses to a city at large and to each fan of the franchise individually. I have spent countless hours watching the games of our St. Louis teams. I’ve been sky high with the championships and down in the dumps with the losses. A good lithmus test to the true St. Louis Rams fan is this. Think in your mind and really focus on your gut-level, visceral emotions you feel when I mention the following two stories. (1.) Super Bowl 14: Pittsburgh Steelers 31, Los Angeles Rams 19. Rams led by quarterback Vince Ferragamo. (2.) Super Bowl 36: New England Patriots 20, ST. LOUIS RAMS 17. Rams QB KURT WARNER. Both Rams franchise Super Bowl losses. Do you really feel much when thinking of SBXIV? No, not really. How about SBXXXVI? Still stings doesn’t it? That’s what all the money on stadiums and tickets and player salaries and such goes for. That deep down heart-felt emotion that other entertainment can’t provide.

You can’t compare sports to other businesses. As much as I appreciate the comfort the Lennox Corporation provides during our hot Missouri summers, I don’t feel that down in the gut elation or depression from them.

One piece of advice for the civic leaders. Market the money (major stadium upgrade or new stadium) aspect like crazy. No one has brought up the question, “How much money does the Rams organization BRING to the city of St. Louis?” It may be way too early to ask this question but you know, if the Rams bring (random amount) $200 million / year to the city for the next 20+ years then maybe a $1 billion (gulp)investment is worth it. If it comes to the taxpayers then a black and white return on investment may make the (no doubt) huge investment easier to swallow.

For my part, my heart speaks too loudly to truly see it objectively.

I think the next lease should stipulate that the Rams need to be in the top 25% in win percentage.

The Edward Jones Dome is by far the worst stadium in the league. Dreary lighting, awful soundsystem, no atmosphere.

How about adding a couple windows, some new speakers, and pictures of actual Rams (or anything!!) on the walls. St. Louis is a baseball town so we’ll only get excited when the Rams are winning so nothing can really help on that front (expect maybe win a few games?) Going to a game now is like sitting in a tomb.

I don’t care if we use public funds for the project or not.

I read some of the response regarding my examples of bad stadiums that have survived. I have been to Green Bay to watch the Packers and I have been to Chicago to watch the Cubs. If they spent a billion dollars on either of those places they would still be old fashion. A lot of the money being spent is to update the interiors of the buildings (executive offices, players locker facilities and concession areas). It will still be the same old place to you and me. The people in Green Bay have been sitting out in the cold forever and loving it.

that dome was obsolete BEFORE it was even finished. Its too small to hold a super Bowl, but a great place to watch a Tractor pull & big trucks smash little cars. That is all the place is good for. The City messed up when they built a sub-par facility & now the St Louis tax payers will have to fix the screw-up… No thank you. The Rams can pack up & move to L.A. I will be happy to help them pack up.

Once again, its a great day to be a Cowboys fan

EXRTD, like I said in my post I would not support or vote for a general incrase in sales tax, personal or real estate tax. I would vote for a tax on hotel rooms and rental cars.
The current taxes are being collected because the voters of the county and city approved the tax and the tax is to be collected and used for purposes that promote or aid the county/city in attrating conventions, tourists and so on. If the voters had not approved the tax the money would not have been collected. We can still vote a tax on Hotels/rental cars to help pay for the items you mentioned. Not a bad ides actually.

Now, if we would really like to make a difference in this community (and I do, St Louis is my home) we need to find a way to make it more efficient and improve our schools, roads, public transportation etc. and we need to start by disolving some of the 90+ municipalities in the county and possibly make the city part of the county. I cannot believe that there is not millions upon millions of dollars there waiting for the taking. Just think of the duplication of services that we have. In the municipality I live in we have way too many police officers and fire fighters. We have the number we have because of the sales tax revenue the city I live in collects. If we don’t spend we lose it per state statues, so we hire public servants so we don’t have to turn it over to the state.

Lets see. The rams went 3-13 last year and of course the price of tickets went up. While it appears that this years team should be better, their schedule will make it difficult to improve their record. If taxpayers money is required to help build a new stadium(no roof), all counties that make up the St. Louis metropolitan area (Mo. and Ill.) will need to chip in, not just St. Louis city and county. Although I am a huge football fan, I cannot believe that the dome is near the end of its useful life. Personally, if the rams insist on a new venue, then they should build it the way they want it with their own money. They can sink or swim depending on their own risk and reward, put the onus on management to keep a top notch team most of the time.

What would it take to make the Rams ‘top flight’?

Through all of this I have read 10 or 12 valid comments… even mr “Ihave been to every game” guy is off base with the employee moral and concessions…

Here’s the deal - New Busch Stadium was built with slight-of-hand materials, looks great - and didn’t cost an arm and a leg to build… By slight-of-hand I mean a lot more prefab than meets the eye - there is probably not a real brick in the place - it’s panels…

A city doesn’t have to go to excess (Jerry Jones) to create a viable environment. Yes - it will cost a half a billion dollars - and no - I don’t care if it takes money to do it - so the soapbox bs doesn’t effect me.

You will spend the same to retrofit the Dome. The sad point being that the Dome was one of the very last of the old school “new” domes. There was no foresight or else we would not be complaining.

The flip side is that Indy will have a superbowl which makes it absolutely feasible STL could have one in the next 20 years…

It all depends on the next few years.

“The taxes on the hotel/rental cars is ear marked for tourism and projects that bring conventions/tourists to the area. … If a new stadium or improvements would be paid for by a similiar tax on hotels/rental cars and/or a tax on restaurants in “enterainment zones” (see Dallas Texas) I would vote yes tomorrow.”

This is the dumbest thing I’ve heard today. A tax on tourism related services that is spent on an insanely expensive football stadium is supposed to bring more tourism to the area. Maybe such a tax is actually hurting tourism. Let’s call the tax and gift stadium what it is - a giveaway to an NFL team that doesn’t need one. If it is such a great deal, then why doesn’t the team build it’s own stadium? Here’s a novel idea - don’t waste the money on a free football stadium for an NFL owner and then we can take the money that is “just piling up sitting there” and re-earmark it for something besides an expensive toy.

Step #1 - Buy a really big can opener …

Take ths damn roof off! Football is an outdoor sport ment to be played in the eliments,building a dome was the citys #1 mistake.

Since I don’t live near St. Louis, it is not my place to launch into your tax and financial discussion. But I will offer thoughts on the dome itself as I have been to many a stadium. My impression of The Ed is that it offers football in a Sams Club atmosphere. I was unimpressed by crowded corner entrances, tight hallways, unexceptional food that I waited in line for the entire third quarter (no exaggeration). I fear retrofitting the stadium will only be a band-aid approach. The Ed was the last built example of old football stadiums like the Metrodome. The baseball equivlent is U.S. Cellular Field in Chicago. It is a basic stadium completed in 1991, right before Camden Yards revolutionized the way baseball stadiums were built in 1992. After selling the naming rights at The Cell, the State of Illinois has been upgrading it for a few years now. But despite some comsmetic changes, the problems of a sky-high upper deck and five story wall of luxury boxes between decks still persists. It still does not feel quite right. I am afraid that with The Ed, problems with the crowded entrances and tight hallways would also persist. Instead of throwing good money after bad, biting the bullet on a new open-air stadium might be the better long term approach. If you want an example of what could be, go see a game at new Soldier Field — it is night and day compared to The Ed. In fact, you can distinctly tell it is night or day, sunny or raining, very windy or very very windy at Soldier Field, which you cannot do at The Ed.

On the other hand, I really enjoy visiting new Busch Stadium. But I am a lifelong Cardinal fan and biased

Peter - you nailed exactly what I was going to say comparing it to new comisky park. Your exactly right - it was obsolete two years to the day it was opened.

It is not like a bigger, better, newer stadium is going to make a mediocre team play better. These covered domes have taken the fun out of football as far as I am concerned anyway. It is a sport meant to be played outside in all types of weather conditions, not this wimpy heated dome scenario. Forget getting the stadium up to “par”, why not concentrate on getting the team itself there?

My first thought: Sports teams are private enterprises. The only thing public about them is the way they soak the public at every chance. Whether they stay or go, the Public shouldn’t have to pay so that the “Team” (read team management) can “play” (read get more profits) in a top flight stadium.
If they want a billion dollar stadium, they should find the billion dollars in investment to build it themselves. And I do mean build it themselves, not put up just the building and have taxes pay for the roads, parking lot, and, oh yeah, expect to not have to pay real estate taxes, ever.

My other comment is a list of questions that should be answered before expending that much dough: Has the current dome paid for itself yet? How many times over? And how does one calculate that ROI? Is it straight forward like: Taxes generated by dome business exceeds cost, or does it have to be some labarynth like, income to local businesses respent 4 times over generates x amount of taxes which then exceeds the amount spent? Is this good business or just good PR or just ‘Keeping up with the Joneses’ on a really big scale?
Finally: What percentage of the St. Louis metro area population benefits directly (sees a game in person, is employed by a downtown restaurant, etc.)? Is a billion dollars going to significantly increase this percentage?

By the way, I was recently in Indianapolis, and their new stadium looks like an aircraft hanger stuck in the middle of town. Not a great impression at all.

If your going to throw money away you might as well BUY THE TEAM. It’s cheaper than building a new stadium and the value will(should)not go down. If it does you can pawn it off on another city without a team.

There are a lot of good solid comments on this subject. I especially liked the one with the guy wanting some “love” or help to rehab his house, done in the same spirit as the building of a new stadium. Off-base? Nope. Actually he nailed it on the head!
I also agree KC is a far better venue and NFL experience. One reason, as previously mentioned, is that the facility is Football Only. There is room to “tailgate”. It is laid out nice and there is an entirely different atmosphere before games.
For my view; get over the idea of “revitalizing” downtown. I have said it before and once again, 2 busch stadiums and a new dome and the arch, riverboat gambling and countless other “Brainstorms” to re-energize downtown which turn out to be brain farts and where are we? (check out the fabulous fishing on Lake DeWitt) Same spot, going nowhere. We as taxpayers and citizens and fans are simply pumping new blood into heroin addict time after time after time and he just keeps going out looking for more drugs once released. Time to move either to the county or east for a location, if and that’s a BIG IF, we decide to bend over and take it one more time for a pro sports team. Where will the money come from? Right now and despite those that say, “well, in November, after the election, it will get better (want to buy this bridge I own on the East Coast?) It is coming down to Gas or Groceries. We all need to look at the cost/benefit of this whole situation. For me, the NFL is a fun time, even here in a dark, dank, liveless stadium. But… am I able to truly go out and buy tickets 8 times a year realistically? Mortage the future of the area by subsidizing an entity which really only comes in to ask for more from me every 10 years by adding new taxes? Nope. Sorry, rambling but that is my opinion anyway.

St. Louis has far more important areas that need fixing, the schools, more police presence etc. If they want to attract more people down town to shop and live schools and police are far more important. Considering that the Rams only play 8 or 9 games at home it is ridiculous to spend that kind of money. There is nothing wrong with the dome, why do they need “sunlight” can’t they play under electric lights. Don’t think lack of sunlight affects their performance. They are premadonnas. I don’t want to pay more taxes for an improved dome. Let some other city get taken to the cleaners.

Well I don’t have much respect for pro anything right now.I hear so much about the use of drugs.Yes we need to spend more money on teachers and police but that would surely mean higher taxes.

What I envision is a win-win for the Rams, our Convention Center, fans, tax base, and region as a whole. The dome can be opened up to include Convention Center space during home games or other Rams functions. You can go ahead and call me crazy now, but the Rams are going to have a huge season. Interest will come with our success. The roof of our dome could be arranged to show holograms that would play simultaneously with monitors arranged around the stadium. There could be visions of Rams yesterday, today, and ambitions for tomorrow, as well as feature pieces of Rams past and present. In other words, let the fans in St. Louis know why they should be RAMS fans. As far as the Convention Center space, we could have St. Louis Rams themed bars, restaurants, game rooms, maybe a spot where Rams fans can watch Live Interviews, etc….