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06.05.2008 10:39 pm

How much video camera surveillance would you be comfortable with?

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

One of our stories for Friday’s Post-Dispatch focuses on the town of Columbia, Ill., where residents are ponying up tax dollars to pay for a network of video cameras.

Says the story:

“Columbia, with a population of about 9,000, has 11 known cameras trained over the town’s 9 square miles. It’s a sleepy town with a big city approach to crime. Columbia police have turned to the cameras as a basic element of law enforcement, saying they’ll do whatever it takes to keep the town safe. But a civil rights group worries that advancing technology could allow police to spy on residents outside of public places.”

The city appropriated $2,250 for a park security camera in 2005. Police said they wanted to crack down on thousands of dollars worth of vandalism at city parks. In 2006, officials budgeted $8,400 for two more surveillance cameras. Last year, the budget included $18,000 for wireless surveillance cameras. Other money is spent on monitors and staffing, but the total amount spent on the program is unclear.

The story notes that crime hasn’t been a big problem in the city, though vandalism has dropped in the parks.

Would you be comfortable with city-owned cameras privy to every move you make? Some argue that if you’re not doing anything wrong, you don’t have anything to worry about. Does that argument wash with you?

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As much money as I could afford.We need many, many more than we possibly have now!!!

— momama
11:33 pm June 5th, 2008

let’s put cameras in the mayors home and all the board. Also each and every police officer . If they do anything wrong we can ticket them or if the offence is bad enough arrest them . Bet not one camera would go in . But I don’t know why , if they are not doing anything wrong why would they care ?

— mike hohrein
12:06 am June 6th, 2008

There are lot’s of legal problems with installing cameras in residential areas or in public areas where they can be used to view residential areas.

There are problems with installing them in public areas, such as parks, as well.

For those who think cameras can be installed anywhere because, “You are doing nothing wrong”, Do you want one installed in your bedroom or bathroom, You are doing nothing wrong, having sex with whoever, and go to the bathroom to pee.

Incrementalism has it’s way of going from good to bad in a hurry when government is doing it.

— johnh
6:13 am June 6th, 2008

Perhaps it is my natural paranoia, but when I’m in public, I always act as if I am on camera – because you never know. Slippery slope? We’re already here. This latest change is just a matter of degrees.

I think the interesting discussion is, since these are cameras are funded by public dollars, on public property, and viewing the public in public places – will the public have access to the images? You see, cameras can work for the people – or against them. How many times has video revealed bad cops, excessive force or criminal behavior by “pillars of the community”?

I say if the government wants to install cameras – fine. But the people should be able to access them too. This would give the people a chance at real government “oversight”, rather than the normal use of cameras – to keep the “little people” in line.

— But who's watching the watcher?
6:19 am June 6th, 2008

The more the merrier and let’s keep them coming! There have been so many crimes solved in just the last few weeks because these jerks were caught on camera’s and someone was able to recognize them and turn them in. I am also very impressed with the clarity of the video’s.
I am more concerned with my safety than with anything anyone may see me doing. I hope that when a would be thief or whomever sees that these pictures are not the old grainy, blk and white, you can’t make out who or what it is, days are gone and that unless you came to earth from outer space, someone will recognize you and you will be found,it will make them think twice.
As far as people losing their privacy goes, we lost it with the invention of the internet years ago. Homes now have webcams and they are not always used in the best of taste. We all have known people who have video taped things in their own homes that should of never been done. Why worry about the gov. taking things too far? We have done that to ourselves already.

— Gina
6:48 am June 6th, 2008

To get into my company’s office I have to possess a new Federal ID card that includes all 10 fingerprints, both palm prints, photo, birth certificate and passport on a chip readable remotely at any federal port, air facility, or rail yard (presumably by anyone signing a Federal document promising not to misuse what they see). Gee why wouldn’t I want a camera on every fence post? If you think Mr. Bush didn’t get his universal Federal ID, think again, every interstate trucker, merchant marine, railroad worker and all who’s work takes them to those sorts of facilities will have to have one of these puppies by year’s end. Who’s left?

Too many times, as recently as today, we’ve seen mis-use of surveilance videos by well meaning if misguided citizens and public servants. I believe it was New Hampshire where a hit & run accident was caught on video and the local chief of police made a big deal about the “calousness of the public.” Only hours later he had to back track because, in fact several persons not seen on the video made honest and proper attempts to help the victem and identify the fleeing suspects. Fortunately, in this case no inocent person’s face or car was in the video.

My other concern particularly in parks & along public streets is when did it become necesarily a crime to be stupid or do stupid things. If there is anyone over 30 who didn’t do something out of character, and just plain dumb by their current age I take my hat off to them. In some cases was property damaged? Probably. But with few exceptions the lesson learned from fear of discovery was far more profound than if caught on tape. If “officialy” witnessed there is no recourse but to drag the person, and their family through months if not years of investigation charges, and resolution. Looking at the big picture, sometimes even a open and shut case must be defended vigorously to protect future options by a young person just being young. It is a burden on the accused, but as importantly it bogs down an already overworked justice system that misses too many serious offenders.

— Afraidof1984
7:09 am June 6th, 2008

Gina,
There is a quote that goes something like “those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither”. This completely applies to your mindset.

I have no issue with public parks because that is city owned property, but when they turn survellance on every street and every person, they cross the line. This is just looking for trouble where none exists (which defines Columia). Who controls the video images? Who defines context?

For example, if I go to lunch with an old friend and we part with a hug or kiss on the cheek, does that video now get used as grounds that either of us are having affairs?

— suzyjax
7:39 am June 6th, 2008

We have red light cameras and police dogs in our schools. It seems we are willing to trade liberty for security any chance we get. I suspected this will be the next step. Where will it end? I suspect with cameras on ever block…sigh….

— rquack
7:48 am June 6th, 2008

I agree with But who’s watching the watcher?

You’re on camera — or tracked in some manner — almost everywhere you go. Gas station, retail stores, hospitals, schools, work…. I guess is if you don’t want people to see what you’re doing, you should do it in your own home. I guess the question is, when in public, what privacy do you have? Someone will always see you… eye-witnesses are still some of the most convincing testimony given in trials.

I don’t have a problem with being watched. I do have a problem when me tripping and falling on the sidewalk shows up on YouTube. All things in moderation.

— JD
8:18 am June 6th, 2008

The novel “1984″ gave surveillance devices a bad rap. I’m not intimidated by them, so my vote is to place them wherever we can afford. And with rising gas prices, we can probably afford more than think. More cameras in parks would possibly eliminate a few park rangers’ salaries and patrol vehicles–and about $75.00 a day for gas. And maybe we should begin placing even more “red light” cameras, because they seem to work…! I know that I respect the red-light camera monitored signals more than I did the conventional ones. And those who receive violation notices in the mail probably wish they had done the same.

— Ryan On The Euphonium
8:22 am June 6th, 2008

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