Wave of the future.

Will it be “……the wave of the future? Absolutely not. Will it add another tool in some parents vast collection of tools that are instrumental in making additional knowledge available to students. Yes, it will.

Of course input equals output, less what is lost in translation. If the “courses” are correctly crafted, they will be a valuable resource to home schooled students, as well as any other student who who is conscientious.

Now, what will be the necessary qualifications of a “Instructor”? Will it be a degree in education? If so, all is lost. You’ll find them in public schools made of brick and mortar.

This system, using qualified people to teach, is already being used by adults to teach each other. I’ll give an example. In a cooking forum that I frequent from time to time, some ladies lamented that they would like to learn how to pressure can foods. They had nobody to teach them. I volunteered. 12 women bought pressure canners, and over a 12 week course I taught them how to can foods safely. That was some 8 years ago, and they
are canning safely and teaching others. I used a lesson plan, pictures, that I posted, plus recipes….all on the computer. Classes were on Tuesdays and Thursdays for 2 hours each night.

I have never had a cooking course or a canning course in my life!!

My point is that another method of selecting instructors must be developed. A teaching degree is inadequate to teach on a computer.

Finally ! the good sense to, hopefully, reduce the number of incompetent teachers.

This is great! Now they can go straight from their school work to their video games without having to leave the chair or actally have to interact with any living soul. This is bad news for bus companies and shoe manufacturers…

I like the online idea for supplemental education. I am not sure how I feel about the entire experience online. Mostly because it would be lacking the social interaction of the brick and mortar education. The one big plus of traditional school is the social education. However, an entire experience may be needed for those who are ill, injured, troubled, overseas with parents, etc.

As stated, colleges have managed to offer entire degree programs online. Some are good, some are degree mills. DESE would do well to consult the state universitites and community colleges to see how to ensure quality. Quality to me goes beyond teacher qualifications (though I find it humorous that some have taken the opportunity to bash the profession), but also addresses how to ensure that the work is truly that of the student, lessons on information literacy, etc.

Since some have brought up instructor qualifications, and having taken many college-level online courses, I can speak from the student perspective. Yes, an online teacher should be more than the run-of-the-mill “certified” teacher–but certification should be the minimum requirement. They must be able to think outside of the box and create lessons that are student-driven. They should be able to tranform the online experience into truly educational. They must be able generate quality online “class discussion”. It should be more than a correspondence course (read text, answer questions) on the computer.

I always love the “Experts.” Who are these people? Are these people the NEA members who are afraid for their jobs? Why is it that parents supposedly cannot make it in life without a “certified” teacher?

We have been home schooling for years and use many online programs. We also teach her the subjects that the schools refuse to teach or at least teach honestly. We don’t worry about teachers infecting our child with theories of man-made global warming, anti conservative rhetoric, or many other subjects that so many of these teachers tend to brainwash children with.

Online schooling is terrific! There are no bullies to worry about. There are no bad teachers to avoid. There is no traffic jam to worry about. You actually have a choice in what your child is learning and how they learn it. Unlike what many of you think home schooling, kids are out and about and have plenty of social events. It’s too bad that union teachers are so frightened for their jobs that they are more interested in saving their jobs then educating our children. It’s time to get out of the stone age of education and become more responsible for teaching our children. That doesnt mean that public education should be dead but I sure hope this is a wake up call for many who are tired of the failing school systems. Perhaps the competition will “enlighten” the current failing system.

While on-line distribution of knowledge would enable equity and easy access to all students and probably provide high-quality content, before we implement any similar program we need to seriously address how our current teachers will be instructed to master the unique communication skills and pedagogy required for on-line instruction (where’s the eye contact, body language?), how to address differing student populations,etc. A classroom teacher in Manhattan may consider using a different example/reference to clarify a theory than a teacher in the Bronx may consider using.

I believe there is an intrinsic value to traditional school attendance that transcends book learning; band, orchestra, football, debate, day-to-day contact with friends–it’s all positive socialization that could easily be denied most virtual and home-schooled students.

Robert Frost said “Education is hanging around until you’ve caught on.” I wonder if this opportunity would exist in the virtual classroom.

Bad idea. Kids need school to learn social skills as much as academic skills. A teacher is a person dedicated to education of children. A parent is a person dedicated to their children. There is a difference. A parent lacks in the capability to be honest and judge there children when it comes to achievement. They are partial when it comes to their kids feelings. Why not let your kids get out in the world and find out that there are other things going on. Some of the things you might want to protect them from but it is not going to happen forever. Kids need to learn who they like and who they don’t. I child is an individual (a product of their parents but not their parents) who need to learn to adjust to life situations. It’s hard to do that in front of a computer all day long.

I think it’s misleading to call MoVIP “free.” There is no such thing as a free ride when it comes to state sponsored programs. I’m paying for it, you’re paying for it, every tax payer in the state is picking up the tab.

Well Ryan, apparently you haven’t been in the schools lately. I have an 11 year old daughter that runs circles around traditional school children. Guess what? We dont have to force or control her to make her do things when it comes to education. She is so motivated to do it on her on. School can me son non-motivating in many circumstances. We force our children to learn things that absolutely useless for the rest of their lives. So many government educated school kids are so unequipped when they leave government schools that we have to re-educate them again. Unfortunately, we have so many people walking around this world who have no idea what to do on a daily basis and those people depend on the government to take care of them.

Tom, please tell me what social skills my daughter is missing. Would it be the lack of education on how to take drugs or would it be the sexual permissiveness that is going on in the schools? Why is it that so many of you in-the-box government school advocates that think that you must force children to be put into circumstances that you avoid on a daily basis? So, is what you are saying is to put children into unbelievable positions to learn how to cope? If that is the case, then who is teaching them what to do when those circumstances come up? You obviously arent there when they have to make a decision so I guess you want a teacher to do your job? What is it with this forcing our children to learn social situations that they many times aren’t ready to cope with?

Maybe you are right. Let’ force our kids into these situations. Let’s make them deal with other parent’s problems. Let’s bitch and moan when the teacher isn’t protecting them. Let’s forget the real point of schools which is to educate. Why don’t we just put these kids in social systems and educate them at home. Would that make you happy?

My question to parents is why do you put your kids into unbearable situations that you yourself would never want to be a part of? In the mean time, we will continue to lock our daughter in her closet and throw her a piece of meat occasionally. Isn’t that what many of you knuckleheads think? You talk about not having a clue!

As all of our monies are handed to a few wealthy men, and sent to the sands, what money will we have to pay teachers? As jobs are outsourced to give yet more money to those few wealthy men, what parent will have a good enough job to pay for private schools? Perhaps as we do not even have money to pay for clothes, school at the computer will be a blessing for the naked ones.
Of course it is the wave of the future. I have gotten some great classes in niche subjects online. Traditional school shave become much too expensive for what they turn out. But as we see more self serve check outs and other job grabbing ideas, who will pay for our gov-ment and other expenses. What good will the education do if we have no decent jobs to be educated for? We would have to move to other countries to be productive.
I guess we’ll just have to sit around and watch the republicans live off social security and medicare monies while dissing the dems who created the programs, while not being able to tell us why they rely on such dem programs while they still claim those who can’t make it without gov-ment handouts ask for gov-ment handouts. Their hypocrisy will shift from their sexual lifestyles to economic hypocrisy. That’s the wave of the future baby should the chads kick in again. Social skills of children rely on a lot more than schools, but regular ineteraction outside church cults sure help kids deal with the real world, no matter if their parents didn’t learn those skills. Oh…I want to know how you all are going to explain to your kids the draft that will kick in if mumbling boy wins. There will be a draft if the republicans kick in. Perhaps you would want an online screen to tell your kids that you voted for them to be a bloody blob in the sands.

Yes. We will be ready for the Matrix when the Computers take over.

Pia, obviously you live in your own world. It is the dems that keep coming up with talk about the draft. Perhaps you need to stop reading your left-wing sky is falling websites and get out and get a real job. Why is it that you libs think that government is the answer? The old USSR found it it wasnt. Ask a Cuban that has escaped Cuba how wonderful the government solutions were?

Obviously you are a great product from a government run school. Need I say more?

Superdave, I have to respect what you say. I would have to be insane to suggest that you child is lacking in social skills. That’s the greatest lesson we learn as individuals. We all open each other eyes to new ideas that alter our own abilities to re-think. That is exactly why children need to get out in the real world. It is no different to them than it is to us on this blog. We have to deal with different people with different opinions. We have to learn to get along. I can only ask that you stop bashing teachers and the educational system. It has flaws as you and I do. It is up to you to teach your children the correct behavior to exhibit in public. Sex and violence is a unfortunate part of our society. It is not going away anytime soon. Experience is priceless when it comes to dealing with other people. There is no way that your child will learn to understand a mentally challenged child’s behavior just because you explained it to them. They need the experience of meeting that child themselves. There are many examples of social skill that children need to learn about early in life. Do the best you can with you children. When it comes to raising kids, everyone is an amateur. Good luck. By the way, how much have you ever learned from a good friend. How did you get those friends??

Ryan, Robert Frost in the “Death of a hired man” also said , words to the effect , Two paths diverged by a yellow wood, and and I took the one less travelled by”. That is what we are talking about in here.

This is a new path. It can be good or bad. It will be good or as bad as those who implement it.

Now for my definition of education: Education is a process of learning more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing.

If any0me lets their kid sit a computer all day they are only a bit above those tho let their kids watch TV hours. Both are committing child abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point some made about a kid not socializing because he/she was is front of a computer is specious. If you think you know how to stop hormones from being the most viable factor in relationships, you have discoveresd a new path in a yellow wood.

Actually, John, that Frost poem was “The Road Not Taken,” says this product of the public schools, albeit many years ago.

I belive the best education is life experience, my children ages 16,15&10 are a product of the public school system and where the schools fall short I pick-up the tab. Exspecting any school to be responsible for my child future is nonsence. Let them make mistakes,….probably one of lifes toughest lessons learned and they can’t do that if mom & dad are always holding their hand taking credit for their education.

Dale, you are right. I was relying on my memory. It is obvously not very good. Same poem just a different name. LOL.

I considerd his musing but didn’t think it was as worthy as my my definition of education? It is a process if learning more and
more until one knows every thing about nothing.

Dale, do you dispute that? LOL

With online classes, the bulk of the curriculum information comes via that content. That content is not a choice or decision of the teacher. The teacher must learn to be a facilitator, as opposed to just teacher. That said, I believe the basic foundation of a great online instructor/facilitator would be those core education courses that traditional brick & mortar teachers take.
The facilitator/teacher still needs to know about child/adoloscent development, learning strategies (especially learning strategies!), learning styles, cognitive development, indivualized differentiation, assement objectives, etc. This is the FOUNDATION for a good online facilitator. To disregard such, makes this online high school a losing proposition.

Superdave: You’re right. I haven’t attended school too recently. I finished by last “formal” class 5 years ago. And I agree with your assertion that the “family” serves as a very important social network. But let’s be reminded that such a social network is entirely based on “adult” standards, expectations and measurements, AND INTERACTION! Kids need to have the opportunity JUST to be “kids”–outside the realm of strict parental controls. And while traditional schools sometimes (not always) offer negative socialization exposure, I have found that, in a fair number of cases, certain kids who are home-schooled lack the confidence of self that comes from day-to-day interaction with their own kind, their own age group. And while home-schooled kids may have acquired a unique ability to score well on standardized tests, SOMETIMES (and frequently) I find that they lack a blending ability–skills learned through experience (both successes and failures) to problem-solve and compromise.

The home-schooled approach is NOT for every kid, expecially for those with learning disabilities, including lack of motivation and drive. And quite frankly, based on my experience, I view the traditional classroom, with all its obvious negatives, more beneficial than an environment of exclusivity and isolation. Let’s not create a generation of socially compromised children who are able to read, but unable to distinguish what is worth reading, as GM Trevelyan once observed.

“Virtual Schools” are useful where quite possibly the location is remote and travel difficult. A growing number of rural areas have had population loss to the point where the “schools” have few students. In such a case, “virtual schools” make sense.

Another arena where this is being used is with persons who, for whatever reason, need to complete their classroom work apart from the regular classroom setting.

However, the crux of the whole “Virtual School” discussion, beyond who controls/sets the curriculum, is how are the evaluations being made? Some subjects may not require anymore oversight than making certain the “answers” correspond to a “key” (ie. in mathematics and certain of the sciences). Other subjects require more verbal input (ie writing, argumentation, etc.). Spell check and grammar check tell you nothing of the quality of the writing.

As to the “social” argument, my only real concern here is that with the rise of autism and other social affective deficiencies, will we slowly become a nation of isolates afraid and distrustful of others?

Heaven forbid they actually speak to people face to face and be forced to interact like a human being. Kids social skills already suck thanks to cell phones and texting 24/7. Now you want to take away school. The only time they have to put the technology down and interact.

I can understand if the student needs addl help with their current schooling (tutoring) or cant leave the house due to injury or sickness. Only then this concept would make since.

Unless we want an entire generation of hermits?

I read these comments with amusement, amazement, and sadness. So many of you are the exact reason why government schools are such a failure. Were you aware that Karl Marx is the model of most government schools? How naive and uninformed so many of you are. So many on here show total ignorance when it comes to what virtual schooling is and home schooling. What makes you think that my daughter has interaction only with adults? Has the media infected your mind so deeply or are you that shallow? Sorry to be so hard on so many of you but when I read these comments I truly see ignorance.

Let me give you a hint. My wife is a teacher. Enough said. We came to this conclusion of home-schooling because of the government schools. She gets to see on a daily basis how so many parents drop their kids off school without their supplies, no sleep, cellphones in hand, and so many are so turned off by school that it’s not even funny. We have a failing system and so many say “Not my school.” We are forced to send our child to the school that the government declares they must go to. Oh, but wait. We can spend additional monies and send them to a private school. Never mind that our tax dollars are paying for government schools! The school systems answer to why the kids aren’t performing? Not enough money! By the way, how much is enough money?

We ahve choices in where we shop, where we eat, where we vacation and so on. But when it comes to our most prized possessions, which is our children, the government tells us where to send out kids. After taking our money as tax dollars, why can’t we sent them to the school of our choice. Hey folks, you only get one chance!

For those of you totally ignorant of home schooling. There are numerous activities and social event that these kids go to. Stop watching the news. It’s infecting your minds! Do you really trust the press that much?

Were you aware that Karl Marx was also home schooled?

Stuperdave-
“Were you aware that Karl Marx is the model of most government schools?” Huh? I suppose all of those church schools in early 19th century or John Dewey had absolutely no input. By-the-way, Karl Marx lived from 1818 - 1883 and spent most of his adult life in England. He may have advocated for eduaction, but so did Charles Dickens and other “radicals”.

“Stop watching the news. It’s infecting your minds! Do you really trust the press that much?”
I agree with you on this one — far too many people watch Fox News, Hannity, O’Reilly, and listen to Limbaugh and others like them. A too steady diet of them lowers one’s intellect and creates a false reality.

As to whether I trust the press or not, well I tend to use the education I received in the public schools, and my undergraduate and graduate work to think pretty much for myself. But, then again , I don’t watch Fox, and I do read books and newpapers and journal and magazines. So go figure.

I think the virtual schools will be a great option for those who are interested.It won’t work for everyone as many kids need the babysitting they have gotten used to, but more motivated students should do well.Personally, I got an education despite my time spent in the St.Louis Public Schools, thanks to my mother.My mom even managed to get an incredibly incompetent fifth grade teacher replaced when ,not only did she speak worse English than many immigrants, she could not maintain control of the classroom. If homeschooling had been an option back then, I would have begged to do it because the rest of the class would not have been holding back my progress.Here are a few quotes for the anti-homeschoolers to mull over.Albert Einstein said “Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one learned in school.” Or Mark Twain, who said “I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.”I particularly like what Richard Yates(I have no idea who he was, LOL) had to say:”They say we are better educated than our parent’s generation.What they mean is we go to school longer.It is not the same thing.”

While there might be many good to adequate public schools, many of the students I see can barely speak proper English,much less write it.Many of the teachers are so busy being disciplinarians that there is little time for teaching.That was already true in the ’80s, when I was in high school.If a kid would be more motivated learning online, it should be an option.MSN or Newsweek(I don’t remember which) ran a recent story praising online learning for kids.

We chose to homeschool after some very poor experiences in the Cahokia charter school several years ago.Our son should be taking his GED and moving onto college within a year or so,after he turns 17 this fall.Our nine-year old homeschooled daughter was busy with me at a horse show over the weekend,socializing with many of her public and private schooled horsey friends and helping our neighbor with her horses.My three-year-old is learning her alphabets as she helps me in the garden.While we have not used many online tools, we use computer programs,as well as dvd lessons and the History Channel for more self-directed learning,as well as the nine bookcases full of books.I want my kids to learn how to think, not what to think, and to trust their own judgement as they get older.They are learning the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to history, not the sanitized, revisionist nonsense that passes for history these days.

Superdave’s comments about negative socialization didn’t go far enough-school bullying and ostracizing were the catalysts for many of the incidents of violence and shootings in the past decade.Remember Columbine? I remember being stabbed with a lead pencil by another girl when I was in the first grade over thirty years ago,and things have only gotten worse.These days, it seems that a teacher is in the news every other week for “inappropriate” conduct with a student,not to mention the assaults(sexual or physical) by other students, so there is another concern. I don’t want my kids learning the “survival of the fittest” in that manner.My kids understand it is better to have a few good friends than a wider circle of friendly acquaintances.My bigger “socialization” problem has been limiting their friends’ visits and phone calls until the lessons and chores are done during the summer months.They have learned not to cave in to social pressures to conform to someone else’s idea of cool clothes or behavior.Contrary to several opinions expressed here,many homeschooled children also learn to get along well with more than just their own peer groups.My neighbor loves to have my daughters visit.She has told me that the older one is so mature,she forgets she’s only nine until she is on the floor playing with the neighbor’s little grandsons. There are many opportunities to “socialize” if a child educated online or at home.It just takes a more flexible approach on the parents’ part.

Superdave:

All us idiots wish you, your wife and your daughter well. But remember, as kids get older, they require longer tethers!

HEY everybody Superdaves got all the answers to all the ills of society…quick quit your job run don’t walk to your childrens learning facility take them home and school them yourself here’s a question your wife, the teacher does she get payed does her salary help pay the bills?Guess what without the kids that go to school now your wife is w/out a job dufus.

Regardless if they are home schooled, public schooled, whatever, it is still a parent’s responsibility to teach your kids also-it is what you are supposed to do. Don’t hold your breath waiting for a medal for doing what you are supposed to do.

Oh….Superdave tell your wife the teacher not to bother we need dedicated men and woman willing put aside their prejudices and lift our children up we as a society owe this to our youth! sounds like your wife already quit the fight.

“Let’s not create a generation of socially compromised children who are able to read, but unable to distinguish what is worth reading, as GM Trevelyan once observed.”

I think you will find a fair number of these children already in the public schools, except that many of them don’t read well, much less read for pleasure.Many of them are not only socially compromised ,but downright disrespectful and rude.Our years of dealing with the Cahokia schools proved that.There will not be a one-size-fits-all answer because there are too many variables,and many parents have neither the time nor the desire,even if they have the ability, to teach their children beyond the minimum .There are certainly schools that are doing their jobs, but many others are not reaching expectations,much less exceeding them.Family situations ,including financial status, have an impact on a child’s ability and motivation to learn, and even an exceptional teacher would have a difficult time teaching an unwilling student.On the other hand, there are people who are so motivated to learn and excel that they will,regardless of other factors.Most students fall between these extremes, but many homeschooled kids seem to retain the desire to learn because they have not yet been bored out of their minds waiting for the class to catch up,or stressed beyond bearing from hours of homework after all the hours spent in class. Many homeschoolers are able to cover their core subjects in the time it takes other kids to finish their homework, and then have time to do electives or hobbies.Many public school districts actively court homeschoolers for online academies to get them back on the rolls so they collect money for educating them.

“certain kids who are home-schooled lack the confidence of self that comes from day-to-day interaction with their own kind, their own age group. And while home-schooled kids may have acquired a unique ability to score well on standardized tests, SOMETIMES (and frequently) I find that they lack a blending ability–skills learned through experience (both successes and failures) to problem-solve and compromise.”

Are you saying this doesn’t happen in public schools?Just how many homeschooled kids do you know well?Our neighbors were a little skeptical when we moved to our current home, but they have changed their opinion after getting to know us.Many others I talk to say they wish they had the time or ability to do the same.I went to public school, I was painfully shy,I was teased(not in a nice way) frequently because I wore glasses and always did well(top of the class)on tests and classwork, so I was left with painful nicknames until high school.I don’t think kids have gotten any kinder in the intervening years.Obviously, I’ve gotten over the shyness,LOL.

G.G.I.C
because you blog doesen’t make you less shy I consider myself quite reserved but I can post the most outrageous comments see you can’t see me,I got picked on too its part of life its called learnig to cope!

Bean,
Your point is…?

I got picked on too its part of life its called learnig to cope.

My point. How the hell could you miss it?

Bean, your statements are beyond childish and apparently you have no ability to state a point or debate facts. I would call that a waste of time. Apparently you are a government school issue. If you want to stop embarrassing yourself then perhaps you should try reading and doing more research, because you haven’t been doing any yet.

The point of this is to say that virtual schools aren’t for everyone. Home schooling isn’t for everyone as you can see demonstrated by Bean. Although it may have helped Bean. So much of it depends on the home and the dedication of the parents involved. Honestly, most parents just dump their kids into a school and hope for the best.

This “socialization” thing is what really scares me. That is the Karl Marx theory. To even believe that you have to attend a school every day to be socialized is absolute silliness. As some have said on here there are some terrible memories from school. There are also good ones too. However, to put everyone in the same category is mindless.

My points were never to put a different spin on education and get away from this “in the box” deal that all kids must attend school to be educated and socialized. Our daughter is extremely independent and gets along with everyone. Instead of making fun of it why is it so difficult for so many of you to be happy for her?

I want all kids to do well. Stop thinking that there is only one way. Scary!

Ditto.

Bean,

You might want to invest in a book called “Eats, Shoots, and Leaves” to help you with your punctuation.My daughter quite enjoyed it.

Hey green who’s picking on who now? Feels good don’t it hypocrite…..

Some of us may be blessed with kids who are self-motivated, charming, even intelligent. Others of us are not.

The charming, self-driven, intelligent kids among us can learn anywhere. Those who are not so charming and intelligent rely on others to make them intelligent, to give them opportunities to become charming, and to give them goals to work toward so they can achieve some level of achievement.

Most of our kids are NOT self-motivated and charming, and fewer numbers of them are intelligent.

On-line/home based educational experiences are probably just the thing for the already clever, the already intelligent/driven kids who can walk into a room and fit in with the crowd immediately. BUT NOT SO FOR OTHERS. They need a structure that “forces” them to fit in. Otherwise, they become hermits. And often they stay that way until they too find something that they can contribute to or participate in. That’s where public and private schools can stand out. They have these opportunities sitting around on shelves!

That’s about it in a nutshell, Superdave and GGIC!

superdave said….
We don’t worry about teachers infecting our child with theories of man-made global warming, anti conservative rhetoric, or many other subjects that so many of these teachers tend to brainwash children with.

Scarriest comment yet.

Hey, GGIC:

I researched “Eats, Shoots and Leaves”, then took the test. It would appear that the text takes a non-grammatical, seat-of-the-pants approach to punctuation and writing in general…. which may result in “over-punctuation”. You may want to look up an old copy of “Elements of Style”.

Its all about control for you, free thinking is what propells us foward if you want to control someone get a dog, let your child think for herself instead of force feeding her your illogical lesson plan

Bean,

I was just offering help for self-improvement,but I guess you would need to realize there is a problem before it might be helpful.Sorry

Ryan,

Did you ever consider that the standard approach to education may be part of the reason that so many kids are unmotivated? Textbooks even put me to sleep, and I’m a compulsive reader. I believe that is why my son has been a much more difficult student than his sister- he spent six years in public school being bored to death half the time and in trouble for talking the rest of it.Many kids are willing to learn when it is fun, but someone needs to make it so.I am not saying that public school is wrong for many, just that it wasn’t the best option for my family,or apparently superdave’s ,either.There are many dedicated teachers out there, as there are many dedicated homeschool parents.Neither is inherently right or wrong,it just depends on the parents.Until the best interests of the kids overrides all else,education flounders. I believe most kids CAN be motivated and charming under the right circumstances,and intelligence does not get you far without a good attitude and ambition.Many successful people were not the most intelligent,but the most driven, and there are many definitions of success.I want my kids to be successful on their own terms, not buy into society’s definition because they don’t know any differently.To that end, I will use whatever tools/techniques/motivators that are available to help them achieve it.I will not force them to fit in someone else’s box, and we will be a happier family for it.

Hey green I’d be intersted in your stance on that boogus global warming theory dave speaks of?

Bean is a complete fool. I have wasted enough time with his thoughtless comments. I guess he is getting back at people who bullied him in high school and now he gets brave by acting tough on a blog. Wow, we are all amused but not impressed.

How dare you be so insensitive that you attack a child. I guess children will do that, won’t you?

I am not sure what Ggic when it comes to global warming. Personally, I think it is a farce but that is not the subject at hand. I have a feeling that I would get a much more mature debate with Ggic than I would with Bean or Ryan.

I am not a believer in Global Warming. I think it is silly to believe that we have all this great power over our earth. We can’t stop tornadoes, hurricanes, lightning, and so many other Mother Nature issues so I don’t believe for a second that we are doing all this damage that so many think we are doing.

By the way, I forgot to mention that my daughter went to public school last year for a short time and did that ever de-motivate her. That might take care of you naysayers that she didnt have an experience with public schools. The only good thing to come out of it is that we use that as a fun prod when she slows down. I assure you it’s humorous.

Bean, you need to get out of your closet and get outside. Apparently you are a very unhappy and immature person. However, I do wish you well.

Bean,

I would say it’s real , but probably somewhat exagerated at this point, at least by Gore and the media.I do say it is past time this country starts to take responsibility for the damage it has done,but my family has been moving towards a more sustainable lifestyle for several years.The current economy is accelerating that out of a desire to stay financially solvent.Ironically, online programs could help school districts by potentially saving substantial fuel costs if enough students do it.Kind of like telecommuting for kids,LOL.Anyway, if we assume it is real and take appropriate actions,regardless of the degree we believe it, we’ll still be better off in the long run.If we assume it’s not real, and we’re wrong,it could be catastrophic for future generations.It won’t hurt to take better care of our environment, and better safe than sorry in a situation like this.

Superdave,

I don’t have a lot of time to read up on all the research on global warming(no surprise there), but consider this for a moment.If it is unhealthy to stay in a closed garage with your motor running due to toxic fumes, if you extrapolate that to the bazillion or so cars on the road these days,does it make sense that maybe that could accumulate in the atmosphere and create problems at some point?I can’t say if it is affecting the weather,I didn’t pay that much attention as a kid, but it seems to me that the weather patterns have gotten much more active in the past few years.Again, maybe I just pay more attention now.The “yellow” and “orange” or whatever color days in the summer is another thing I don’t remember as a kid.I have also seen pictures of the smog over Los Angeles, and it was scary.That is why I am willing to believe we might be contributing to the problem.Many times relatively small actions can have much larger impacts than we will ever know.

No offense pal, but these things have been happening since the beginning of time. The major difference is that we now have a media that spends entirely too much time accentuating every little thing that happens. Also, everyone has a video cam. So, multiply all of that and bam, hysteria sets in. Sorry, I dont buy the kool-aid. However, is it a good thing to recycle, of course it is. I just don’t buy the fact that government takes over and tells us what we have to do. If you want to recycle and pay more, God bless you. We are in America and we still have some freedoms. Please don’t force your views on me though.

It is no different than forced government schools. I still am waiting for a government school advocate to tell me why we are forced to go to the school of their choice instead of ours. In California the Supreme court there made criminals out of good home schooling parents because they didnt have that dreaded certification. God knows that we can’t teach our children unless we have certification. After all, look how well the government educates our children. As for me, I give it a failing grade. We rank so low compared to the rest of the world but for some reason that’s ok? “Not my school” is the normal response.

Government is far too big as it is now and now we are talking about Universal Health Care! Oh Please!

I believe there have always been fluctuations in climate and weather patterns,it seems reasonable to think so, but I don’t know how much evidence there is regarding how much it may have changed,or not.The fact that the population has increased so dramatically,and pollution along with it,is what really concerns me.Knowing that many of the resources we take for granted are finite is also a concern,but it’s not keeping me up at night yet.The media is very good at creating drama , but sometimes there is a kernel of truth buried somewhere in the hysteria.It does seem that there are more and more severe tornados and hurricanes in the last few years.Any idea how that compares throughout history?

As for the teaching without a certification, many forget that parents ARE their kids’ first teachers, for better or worse.Good parents are the most important factor in a child’s educational success.It is our job to advocate for our children, and if they are not learning or making “adequate yearly progress”,it is ultimately our responsibility to find out why.Unfortunately, many Americans have been indoctrinated in the government schools( as you call them) and have absolute(if misplaced) faith that their tax dollars are hard at work.Maybe they are, but if that is the case, why the need for “NO Child Left Behind”? To me , skepticism where government is concerned is never a bad thing. I tend to chuckle when someone questions our decision to continue homeschooling even though we are in a “better school district” now.Our reasons are still valid, and I thank God Illinois is fairly homeschool friendly.I think many people are still unfamiliar with homeschooling,even though millions are doing it now,and there is a knee-jerk reaction that different is bad.Sometimes it’s just different.The online classes tread a fine line between true homeschooling and satelite schools run by the government.That so many still believe homeschooling is somehow inferior to brick and mortar schools despite so much evidence to the contrary,at least in some districts, is simply ludicrous. If online classes improve the learning environment for even a few kids, it is worth considering.Ultimately,parents need to do what is best for their own kids.

Superdave,(the name itself about sums it up)
You are funny you wanted so baddly to ignor me and coulden’t my post are short and to the point I don’t need to post long winded comments to debate something that is based on individual family needs.

You continue to trash the public schools,tell me this what would you suggest my sister with 3 autistic children do? You need to count your blessings not everyone benifits from homeschools some very good people need the governments help.Talk about a small mind.

GGIC: You brought up an interesting question about school boredom, unchallenging textbooks, etc. I know that I found history and chemistry boring in high school, and I found philosophy and theology and history boring in college. (I attended a Catholic university and was forced to take 12 hrs of theology and philosophy.) But I suffered through those boring high school and college classes. Why? Because it was a means to an end. Today, in my career, the least attractive job task I have to face each week is the accounting functions of my business. If I could meet with patients all day, I’d consider my job a dream. But at this point, I can’t afford an accountant, and so I do the accounting myself.
So what’s the point? Sometimes I think it’s good for a kid to be bored or inconvenienced just so he’ll be better prepared to deal with setbacks, disappointments or inconveniences later in life. Wasn’t it Emily Dickenson who wrote: ‘Success is counted sweetest….by those who ne’er succeed’?

I have been a public school teacher for the past 15 years and I don’t see a problem with online schools especially in the cases of enrichment and being able to take courses not offered at a particular school (good for rural kids). Where I do see a problem is when we stick lazy unmotivated kids on these computers so they can take a quickie course in order for them earn credits so they can graduate on time or prevent them from dropping out. Many of these kids are just plain lazy and we keep enabling their laziness. I hope that kids who take classes in the virtual school will also be held accountable to passing the end of course standardized tests that are coming soon on the Missouri horizon.

Ryan,

Don’t worry, there is enough boredom,disappointment, and inconvenience to go around.They have chores they don’t like, subjects they don’t like,and social obligations they’d rather skip, like their grandfather’s(my father-in-law) funeral a few months ago.We don’t feel an obligation to see that they are constantly entertained.They are usually more self-sufficient and resilient than a lot of their friends.I happened to like history in school,but not the textbook stuff,unless there were horses involved(my motivator). We use lots of historical biographies and even some historical fiction, as well as the History Channel and DVDs to whet their appetites.My daughter attends monthly book readings/art project sessions at the local Border’s bookstore,where many of the selections have been American Girl books,so she is really getting into those.We were reading about Addy, the slave girl who was liberated during the Civil War, and it had us both in tears.I think it helps if kids can identify in some way, or imagine themselves in the same circumstances.We also use history as a springboard to other subjects,like social studies,science,art, language.I hope to incorporate some philosophy in the future-I’ve never studied it,so it will be new for us all.

Our son was in school for several years and was not happy about our decision to homeschool at that time.He was worried about not seeing his friends.The thing is , we were sending him to school to get an education, not to socialize,but that wasn’t the end result.He sees enough of his friends without being in school anyway.We have DVD courses taught by some of the best teachers in the country for the subjects that I am not as good at, like algebra and chemistry.I have never liked math(I did well, just didn’t like it) ,and didn’t have much math or hard science in high school or college(wasn’t necessary for an equestrian science/business admin. major).Our son has been much harder to get motivated on the subjects he wasn’t interested in,but my husband is more mechanically inclined than academic, so I’m not surprised.I think that is homeschooling’s strength-we have more reason and ability to motivate our kids to learn, and more ability to impose consequences if they don’t.Figuring out why some kids aren’t motivated and changing that would go a long way towards fixing certain problems with education, but I doubt it will happen.You can force them to memorize facts to pass a test, but if they don’t retain what they have “learned”, what’s the point?Some kids are less academically inclined, or just lacking in natural ability(I don’t mean that in a mean way),or from a bad family situation(ever read “A Child Called It”?),so there are many reasons a kid might underperform.Today’s educational system is set up for a on-size-fits-all approach, but with the increasing diversity in our world, that only works for some.A final thought-H. Jackson Browne said”People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness.Just because they’re not on your road doesn’t mean they’ve gotten lost”.

Bean, I will try to be nice here but I must tell you that it isn’t easy with your negative failure-like attitude, but I understand it because you are a government school product. Your spelling is horrible and your grammar is 2nd grade. Need I say more? Let me not forget that your reading comprehension is miserable too. Home schooling and virtual schools are not for everyone. The whole point of government type schools is to give us this idea that we can’t make it without government. It was Ronald Reagan that said Government is not the solution to to problem, government is the problem.

Why is it that you feel that your life is not complete without governments stamp of approval? So many have done so well without government schools. I will not say that there can be some good from government schools but to say that they are the end all is so sad of you to think and say.

I have more confidence in people than government. I apologize, I am starting to sound like Ronald Reagan. You know, the guy that had more confidence in the American people than the American government. Shame on me!

GGIC:

What I admire most about your decision to home-school is your obvious conviction. Your kids apparently are benefitting from their educational environment, and it could be said that both you and they should be congratulated for the steps you are taking. Do you plan to continue home/virtual-schooling through college and grad school as well? If not, do you have a plan in place to ease their transition into a conventional college classroom? Or do you think this may be unnecessary? I’m sure you’ve given it plenty of thought and are prepared for whatever follows high-school “graduation”. It would be interesting to use your family’s situation as a case-study.

Just couldn’t leave it alone could ya!!!! lmaf

Ryan, most who are home schooled end up going to college with no problems. In fact, many of them score so well that they get full boat scholarships. That is a very common circumstance. In fact, those same kids end up going to college to study instead of party. They usually are more mature and are less prone to pier pressure. I have many friends who went to college and spend most of their time partying are embarrassed to say that they wasted so much time and learned so little.

As I have stated earlier home school is not for everyone. I will however say that many are afraid of home schooling thinking they cannot handle it but have found it to actually be easier than they ever expected. The propaganda put out by the educational system that “they” are the only ones that can teach our children is absurd.

There is no one size fits all. I do however believe that if more people tried home schooling that they would be pleasantly surprised at the results in education and behavior.

Ryan,

Thank you. No, we’ll finish with high school, then they can decide where their interests lie.My job pays for their college, so they will have more options than most.My son has mentioned business or auto mechanics, but I’m not sure where exactly he plans to go with it.My older daughter is very interested in natural history and animal/environmental science, so, who knows, maybe vet school will be in her future.She is A LOT less likely to be grossed out than I was at her age,especially with dead things(we had weasel problems with our chickens around the time grandpa died).Did you know that many colleges actively recruit homeschoolers these days because they are believed to have better time management skills than average students, in addition to the test scores? Washington University accepts homeschoolers,although I doubt that my son will choose to go there.I don’t really expect any transition problems -my kids are usually able to adapt quite well(I know, they’re extraordinary,LOL),and who knows what the situation will be by then, especially for my four-year-old.There are so many more options now than when I was in school, I kind of envy them that.

I know many people shy away from homeschooling due to the perceived time commitment.While it can be substantial, when you subtract how much time is wasted with early dimissals, parent conferences,fund raising(or panhandling,as I came to think of it,LOL),excessive homework,too many extra-curricular activities(commuting to and from),dealing with problems,it starts to sound much more feasible.With so many schools charging book fees per semester,the costs start to sound affordable, too.I get tired of hearing people complain about the problems without doing something to fix the problems.I have seen mothers on the news lamenting about “what can I do about it,my kids need an education” after their daughters had been assaulted at school.I think was East St. Louis in the last few years,but it happens elsewhere,too.Not too conducive too learning.If I had been in that position,I would have been livid ,but I would have made sure ALL options had been completely exhausted before whining. Parents have more control than they realize, they just need to accept responsibility for the choices.Doing nothing is a choice, albeit a default choice.Our kids are too important for that, in my opinion.

So can I send my kids to your homes?

Ryan,
It all sounds a little self-serving to me. Whatcha think?

Superspeller- “pier pressure”-is that what you get when the boat pushes against the dock? Two things jumped out at me in all this back and forth. Our two main adherents complained of being exposed to “anti conservative rhetoric” and “too many extra curricular activities.” I believe that is “nuff said. Good luck with your experiments.

Slamfist,

Could you please define “anti conservative rhetoric”? I don’t recall complaining about that, so I’m curious what you are talking about.I don’t know about Dave, but I want my kids to know “the rest of the story”,as Paul Harvey says. I’m not terribly politically savvy(more like bored and disgusted at this point), so I’m just learning about some of the terms(insults?) that seem to be used to pigeonhole people on these blogs.My concern with too many(say, more than two,depending on what they are) extra-curricular activities would stem from knowing parents who run themselves ragged carting 2 or 3 kids to baseball/soccer/football/swim team/basketball,etc. I actually know a guy whose three sons are doing all this , plus honor roll, and I can’t help but wonder if that is healthy for anyone.It really sounds like spreading oneself too thin. And for the record,homeschooling has been around a lot longer than public schools.

green- “…anti conservative rhetoric” was a term used by superdave in his posting of the 9th. You’ll have to ask him but it may refer to his unusual fear of Karl Marx and socializing. As I noted earlier, Karl Marx was also home schooled until the age of 13 so his fears are unfounded. I wish only the best for your kids and sincerely hope all turns out well. As far as the extra curriculars go, I know what you mean but I see a lot of parents, especially dads, who seem to be living vicariously through their sons year round jock-related activities.

Bean:

I don’t read GGIC’s comments as self-serving. And I think in his family’s situation, everyone appears to benefit from their home-school program. But I work with kids all the time (at least 10 a day) who are underdisciplined and undermotivated, and virtual/homeschool programs would likely not work in their cases. They require structure and oversight. And many can “tolerate” school if and only if there are excurricular programs available to them which allow them to pursue personal interests beyond “school”: band, orchestra, debate, gay/straight alliance and other support groups, football, baseball, underwater basket weaving–whatever. These opportunities are not AS AVAILABLE to home-schooled kids.

Every kid is different, and his needs vary accordingly. We’re blessed as parents when our kids “fit the ideal mold”, but there are few among us whose kids do.

VIrtual Schools are certainly the wave of the future.

Ryan,
I am fearfull of a country that refuses to fix its problems, instead it has this mind set that if its not the way I’d do it I’ll take the ball and go home.Superdaves failure to want to work to fix the problems our schools face is the cux of the problem. It would be great if everytime my kid faced advesities I could influence good decision making(oh wait I aleady do I’m a parent), Oh well they will all probably end up fighting in a war created out of lies and deciet (I wonder if thats being taught in their history plan)? Anyway thanks for helping the kids even the ones that aren’t yours.

crux…..I’d hate to get lambasted for a mis-spelling.

“Socialization” is the process all of us go through when we learn how to interact with others in society. It has nothing to do with Karl Marx. I guess all of the “Karl Marx” comments are really “red herrings”.

Education has never been about “facts” per se, but more about how to learn and understand. This has to be done in certain increments simply because a 4 year old, unless a true genius, is not going to be able to handle the same level of complexity in reasoning that a 12 year or 20 year old can. Having a daughter who actually is a genius, I can say safely that “virtual education” would have only given her more worlds to conquer.

My main concern in “Virtual Education” and just about all modern education is, regardless if it is in a public school, charter school, or, “home” school and with the emphasis on passing tests, there is very little reasoning or reflection happening.

Ryan,

Actually ,it’s “she”, mom of three.For some reason, people seem to think I am a guy alot on these things!LOL!I thought I mentioned having a husband at some point, but that might have been on a different blog.My kids have the opportunity to learn many of the things you mention,too.My son used to be in baseball and football, and played basketball regularly, although not in an organized team, just pick-up games with friends.My daughters are into horses, so they get to ride in parades and horse shows.We have piano that they are playing around on, and we will eventually get them lessons if they want to learn more,as neither of us is in the least musically inclined.When we had problems with the Cahokia schools, we did first try to fix the problems,all the way to the Illinois Board of Education.Since it was a charter school, it was pretty much untouchable unless there was documented abuse.We decided that having a good life was more important than waging an uphill battle with the administration and seeing our son suffer the retribution(not very mature of them, but it happened), so we reluctantly decided to homeschool,depite the obstacles.Our lives are much less stressful now(still very busy),so it has been worth it.As for the kids you work with, do you think their early home life might have created ongoing problems? I ride the train to work, so I have seen some people who couldn’t raise a dog properly, much less their kids.Sad, but true.You need a license to drive a car, but anybody can pop out a kid.Please don’t think I’m saying we need to regulate that, but parenting classes or something…They may be a minority of the population,but it has lowered the bar so much and had such a negative impact on many other areas of life.I wish there was a way to fix that problem, then maybe many others would fix themselves.I know my kids seem to have an insatiable curiosity about so many things,but then so do I. I have always been interested in behavior and psychology,and have done dog and horse training(including the canine equivalent of the kids you work with, I think,LOL),so I know how environmental factors can impact behavior for better or worse.Socialization is important to training animals,too, to make them more confident in a variety of surroundings.That was what was happening with my son(only in a negative way), so the solution was to remove him from that environment(the school).It seemed to work,so we kept doing it.I would not say we are better or more dedicated parents than anyone else,just maybe more focused.It didn’t hurt that my sister had been homeschooling her kids for years, so I had a built-in resource.I also have a job with excellent benefits,fairly generous vacation leave, and a great boss who lets me flex my hours,not to mention a great husband who is a tremendous help in every way.Lucky, sure, but I also feel that expectations can be self-fulfilling.If you expect a crappy life, that’s what you’ll get.I expect good things, work to make it happen, and it usually turns out ok.Otherwise, homeschooling would not be possible for us, either.

Strangely enough, I don’t recall learning about Karl Marx in MY public school education,although that was a long time ago :).I ‘ll make sure to include him with our lessons at some point. My sister told me about Major General Smedley Butler,one of two Marines who recieved Two Medals of Honor for heroism.Ever heard of him, Jane? Apparently wars based on lies and deceit have been around longer than we have.He gave a speach in 1933 called “War is a Racket”,in which he compared his role in 33 years in the Marines to that of a “racketeer, a gangster for capitalism” as “a high class muscle-man for Big Business,for Wall Street and for the Bankers.” I just learned about him recently, but be assured he will come up when we are on history of the early 1900’s.I want my kids to know pros and cons so they can eventually make good decisions on their own, even if they have to do some digging to get all the information needed to do so.Of course, in my opinion, parents should be doing this whether they homeschool or not.

RHarnack,

I totally agree.I teach for mastery and understanding of a subject, not to pass a test,except for spelling.Of course, that is much easier with my smaller”class size”.There is also the fact that some people do well on tests, some people choke.We also have a lot of discussions.I am less hung up on exact dates ,as those can be found later. It is more important to me that they know why the Civil War occurred,where it falls on a historical timeline, what was the outcome and who were the respective players, than the exact date of the Battle of Bull Run.I would have been much better educated if the internet was around when I was growing up,too.It is like the old saying about give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach him to fish and he’ll eat forever(I’ve also heard you can get rid of him for the weekend,but that was on a t-shirt,LOL). If you teach a kid how to learn effectively, a teacher’s job is much easier.In this sense, I mean anyone a child learns from , not schoolteachers specifically.The problem is how to get more parents involved in teaching their kids to love learning so much that they are more self-motivated, as apparently your daughter,and my daughters, and superdave’s, are.Nobody get the idea our kids are paragons, at least not mine.We battle daily over cleaning their rooms, among other things.To me, a love of learning, or lack there of, is at the heart of any discussion about any form of education.The rest is just methods to use.

GGIC,

We don’t seem to learn from past war history do we.It is a shame homeschooled or not it will not matter who educated our kids when marching them off to fight!A draft is in our very near future and this time no ones child is safe.That goes for your kid too superdave.

Jane,

We don’t seem to learn much from history, war or not, the way it keeps repeating itself.I’ve heard experience is being able to recognize a mistake when you make it again.I prefer to learn as much as possible from other people’s mistakes,though, as I don’t have time to make them all myself,LOL.Times are definitely getting scary.

GGIC: It’s interesting you would mention “room cleaning” as an adolescent challenge. There are kids among us whose challenges are a bit more stressful: whether they’ll be attacked by gangs when they step off the school bus; whether they’ll be allowed to enter their house after school, if mom or dad is “entertaining”; whether or not there will even be a house to come home to; how to get through another cold night/hot & humid night of homework without heat or cooling–sometimes without electricity, and certainly without the quiet environment conducive to study; whether anyone will “bother” to fix dinner….the examples are endless!

Kids in these environments wouldn’t likely do well if they found themselves in a virtual or home-school environment. These are extreme cases, but even those kids exposed to lesser crimes-against-youth are often unprepared to benefit from virtual educational pedagogy.

“Education” means a lot more than a lesson in school, or a theme for the day. It’s a process to equip kids with the tools they need to learn to live with human dignity.

Ryan,
how are greens post not self-serving they go on and on…..we should all be so lucky!

Ryan,

I TOTALLY agree-I’m sure some of those kids were classmates when I was in school, as well as when my son was.No, homeschool or virtual schooling or anything else that didn’t remove them from that environment would absolutely NOT be in their best interests.That is an even bigger problem for society today than education, and I think they are totally connected.Unfortunately, I don’t have the answers, I just do the best I can for my kids.We tried to help a homeless kid that my son got to know several years ago,even let him live with us, and it really bit us in the a**.Short story, there were problems and the kid broke my son’s nose and my husband,well,reacted like a dad,-the kid was arrested and I don’t know where he went after that.They say no good deed goes unpunished.

I mentioned “A Child Called It’-have you read it? I cried all through that book and the next two because the mother was beyond words.Fortunately,Dave Pelzer turned his life around and used it for good instead of becoming a serial killer.No kidding, I read about abnormal psych,too,some stuff that really turns the stomach,like pedophiles.I have tried to impress on my kids that SO MANY others would change places in a heartbeat, because what they consider hardship is hardly more than inconvenience.There is a difference between “nothing to eat” and “nothing I WANT to eat” that escapes them at this time,LOL.Also, with the room cleaning, at least they have a room, and stuff to clean.I remember when my son was little, we saw a stray dog,and he said”aw, it needs someone to love it” and I was thinking”no, it would rather have someone to feed it”.We have taken in our share of strays.I keep thinking about foster care or being a CASA volunteer, but I don’t have time right now, and I think I would get too upset at some of the situations and want to hurt someone(just kidding,mostly).I tend to be protective of kids, not just my own.

I think sometimes government has to legislate what common sense and common decency should dictate,but until there is a solution,nothing changes in the way it should.Civil liberties aside, some people just don’t seem able to run their own lives.Too many different lifestyles, too many different opinions,not that different is bad, but certain behaviors are generally unacceptable to most. Obviously, that doesn’t stop it from happening.Many of the examples you gave seem to be stemming from parental problems,though. I don’t advocate letting the “government” or whoever raise your kids, but sometimes the kids are better off, if the parents aren’t even able to take care of themselves.I doubt many homeschoolers would disagree. I think we are looking at polar opposites on the parental measuring stick.At one end you have the total derelicts(not talking about those going through tough times, but those who have no business procreating but did anyway), at the other, parents who like being parents and give it their all(these can be homeschool or not-many kids in school have very involved parents ,too).Many also fall towards the middle.Until only people who have the ability and the desire to be parents ARE,I think there will be problems.These problems haven’t gone away in the history of the universe(not that I claim to have read it all,LOL),so I doubt they will be fixed in our lifetimes.Still, we need to keep trying. We may not be able to fix the problem, but we can minimize the damage.

Bean,

I’m sorry you think my posts are self-serving-what exactly do you mean? I do realize how blessed I have been, but it was not without a lot of effort and some adversity on all our parts, so I don’t feel guilty enjoying our circumstances.Everybody has the opportunity to read and learn to try and improve their situations in life-look at Oprah Winfrey.Where would she be if she decided “oh, my life is too hard, I’ll just sit here feeling sorry for myself and hope someone HELPS me”?She certainly wouldn’t be one of the richest and most influential women on the planet.I admire her greatly for her drive and philanthropy.You get out of life(and anything else) what you put into them, so if you are unhappy, the only person to blame is you.What, are my posts forcing you to overwork your brain?Sorry for the inconvenience!

Green- Your sister needs to brush up on her history. General Butler is one of 7 Marines and one of 19 total who have received two Medals of Honor. He was also recruited (supposedly) by some in the business community to overthrow the government of FDR for his redistribution of wealth ideas. He refused and ratted them out to Congress

Slamfist,

Actually, she just told me to look him up and check out the “War is a Racket” speech.The rest came from wikipedia or another site on the ‘net.Apparently, you have more current info.I haven’t seen the rest, but I haven’t had time to do more than a cursory search.Any good, reliable sites I should be looking at?

Slamfist,

WOW, I just checked out the plot against FDR on Yahoo-what an eye-opener.I’m sure they didn’t mention that in any American History class I’ve ever had.I think I’ll add one of the books mentioned to my ever- growing reading list.History is so much more fascinating when you sift through the dirt! Thanks for the correction-old Smedley seemed an interesting enough character without plots to overthrow the government.I guess we’ll never know if it was true, especially the possible link to the current president’s relative.