Well, after the debacle last season, who knows what will happen. I couldn’t get rid of my $100 tickets for $20 by the end of the year.

Why would we ever assume that a family would stay loyal to their ancestors wishes to keep their legacy alive in the family business? When will we ever learn that the scream of money is louder and more powerful than the voice of a dead loved one, even a mother? Of course those kids want to sell the team and yes St. Louis will suffer another blow. Why worry about an already done deal? At least we are all still somewhat numb from the AB sale so the stick won’t hurt as bad.

Gina–maybe the kids would rather have a bunch of money than own a football team? Why is that a big deal? Chip and Lucia are adults who have the power to make their own decisions. They don’t have to go through life doing what their mother and father would have done. They have the right to make their own choices. We should respect that. Why should we expect people to do what someone else wants them to do? They have the right to live whatever life they darn well please. That’s the American Dream.

I suspect the Rams will test the market in 2015 when their lease is up.

This team is good as “gone”, either by being sold or moved to another city after 2015. Lets face it, if this team is REALLY worth almost a “billion dollars” and someone or group out there is willing to pay that kind of money, then its a done deal.

The only way that the Rams MIGHT have a chance to stay in St. Louis is to build “ANOTHER” new stadium, lets face it, the civic center does NOT have the kind of money to update the current stadium to keep it in reach of the agreement that was drawn up when the RAMS were lured here to St. Louis in the first place. The small, and I mean small cosmetic updates that they are currently considering will NOT suffice to even come close to what that is needed to meet the lease agreement. One very slim hope would be that Stan Kronkie steps in and finds a way to get around owning the two professional sports teams in Denver, maybe, and just maybe the NFL owners would be in agreement to change that rule because Mr. Kronkie has the capital to support ALL three teams. That would be the DREAM way of keeping the team in our beloved city, because he would make sure the team is run properly and would want to field a winner, not like some other owner that we remember that left town and headed West to Phoenix Arizona on a whim!

RambllingRam

The Rams are definitely in play. They’re putting up smokescreens that they do not want to sell, but let’s be honest, Rosenbloom & his sister have no desire of running this team. My guess, the Rams will be back in Los Angeles by 2011. It’s what the NFL wants and it is something that DeBartolo can certainly make happen. You have to realize that Rosenbloom’s dad had the team in L.A. before he died in a swimming accident and his son Chip isn’t a hands on guy. He wants the money & that’s it. If current Rams President John Shaw still has his office in L.A., what does that tell you? Shaw would love nothing more than the Rams to come back to Southern California. It’s pretty obvious. The Rams had a nice run in St. Louis, but I personally feel this is the end of the St. Louis Rams.

If Chip Rosenbloom thinks hiring a company to screen calls from people wanting to buy is only to shield them from wasting time talking on the phone, he is badly mistaken. His quote in the story about not wanting to spend 8 hours a day taking calls is absurd. They don’t get that many offers. Corporations cannot own an NFL team, only individuals, and there aren’t that many individuals who can afford it, and even fewer who want to bother with owning a team. The purpose of Moag is to investigate whether or not the inquiry can afford to buy the team AND be approved by the NFL.

Business is business and the Rams will go where the money potential is greatest and its not in the present stadium situation in St. Louis. The players and the ownership will talk about keeping the team here but thats because they don’t want to lose their fan base. If the Rams move St. Louis will never get another NFL team again. However, maybe the city doesn’t want a NFL team?

Rams? Does that team still enjoy NFL status?…..and is it still based in St. Louis? If “yes” to both , let’s don’t let the door hit their collective rumps if they leave.

I checked my who-cares-o-meter and the Rams didn’t register. If the metro area can’t get its act together to lift the city limits and become a community, break the stranglehold of the Democratic party on city administration and fix the city schools and city services, then the Rams’ location is irrelevant.

Pay attention to building on what makes the city BE great, rather than just making it LOOK great! Why can’t the powers in place see that its not football teams that make a city “world-class”? Its world-class schools and city/county services, and police and fire protection and roads and water and housing and jobs!

We are bankrupting ourselves for fluff like the stupid Rams and the becoming-just-another-greedy-and-soulless-business Cardinals, while the airlines leave us stranded and the corporate HQs head for the hills and the middle classes moves outside the city limits. We spend huge amounts of tax money to kiss up to businesses thinking about moving into the City, but what do we do to help the businesses already here?

But, hey, we’ve got a football game 8 times a year. Wheee!

Sorry. Vent mode off.

After the Chrysler cutbacks and the sad news of AB becoming an foreign company, the Rams don’t really seem that important.

Maybe the Chinese will buy the Rams? We sell pieces of our country to the rest of the world all the time. Think about it Chip…the Shanghai Rams, or how about the Brussels Rams? The Belgians seem to be in a buying mood. Whatever it takes to make a dime and sell out on your country, right?

By the way, I spent a year in Belguim while in the Air Force, and Stella Artois is skunk juice for beer.

Call me bitter, but this is what we ALL have to look forward too as corporations sell us out to the highest bidder no matter who it is.

If you think the Rams will not move then you probably still belive that AB is not looking at a buyout offer.

The Rams will eventually leave due in large part to the lack of corporations in the region and the high dollar salaries that come with it. As business leaves, the corporate big wigs go as well thus resulting in fewer seats being filled, and the more lucrative expensive seats sitting empty. When the so called “Rams Fans” sold their tickets last year to the Packer and Steeler fans, this was proof that STL is not a football town and just a Cardinal town. True die hard fans stick with their temas through good, bad, and transitional times. You would never see Packer or Chicago Bear fans dumping tickets and making asses of themselves on national tv like the way STL fans did. You are a bandwagon town people. STL is not a big city, it is a medium city who is getting passed up by cities like Nashville, Charlotte, KC, Denver, and Minneapolis for business, conventions, and job growth. Untill the boundaries surpass west of McCausland this region will be absoloutly irrelevant to the world of business and national perception. Sorry for being so crass but the truth hurts, and ST.Louis inhabitants are very laconic individuals, very unwelcoming of new faces (insert high school question here) and all about their lawn and lawn chairs on the driveways with the baseball game on. This folks is not life, and bitching about I-64 does not help either. The traffic there is a joke compared to places like Nashville, Minneapolis, and Denver to name a few. Either change, embrace the city or continue to fall from national prominenece, everyone has a stake in the city’s success, it does in fact affect all of you like it or not.

The city of Oslo is in talks to tender an offer to the City of St Louis for the Arch, Dade County Community College is in talks to move Washington University to Miami and Ted Drews will soon become part of General Foods. The Baseball Cardinals have accepted an offer to relocate to Ft Wayne Indiana where they will enjoy a new stadium and condo complex and Union Station has been sold to a small Arizona town with an active interest in significan architecture.

The B.S. that they hired a company to screen calls is absurd, if someone calls to inquire about buying you simply say “the team is not for sale” and hang up, that should take all of about 10 seconds. Do they really think we are that studid? I guess they do.
They will not sell the team until after this coming season, they have plans to honor their mother this season. Next year, the sold sign will be hanging over the Earth City offices.
They are going to have a HUGE tax bill to pay, they can delay it for 5 years and just pay the IRS the interest due on the inheritance and that can be paid by the Rams orginization.
The only hope I see in this team staying here long term is for Kroenke to find a way around the NFL rules of ownership in other professional teams. I don’t know of any other local individual that would have the captial to buyt the Rams and asure they stay here. As we all know lawyers can find loops holes in anything and my guess is the NFL rule against mulitple ownership probably wouldn’t hold up in court. The NFL is not very successful in court in stopping francises from moving even though they have By Laws prohibiting such moves without 2/3 majority of the owners voting for the approval.
The other big force working against St Louis is the NFL REALLY wants another team in LA. We can only hope that Jacksonville or Minnesota two other teams not happy with their stadiums or not doing well in their markets(Jacksonville had to reduce the seating capacity of their stadium bacause they could never sell out)move their first.
I have been a season ticket holder from the beginning and I do not want to lose another team, but I am afraid the writing is on the wall and it is just a matter of time.

Pretty amazing we are giving up on our team after we won the Super Bowl less than ten years ago and went to it only 7 ago. We had ONE miserable season, yes, and we are fine with taking our team somewhere else? St. Louis might not be “the best sports city” that I thought it was. Try going to Cleveland, who haven’t tasted Super Bowl in ages, and see what they would think about losing their team again…I bet it would be a little different…

Bring back the Big Dead. Someone get Bidwell on the phone…

Are you people all crazy? Where is the loyalty to our football team? You bunch of crybabies make me sick! If you don’t care any more about our team than what your comments suggest, then why would you even waste your time commenting about it. Rams, there are some loyal fans in St. Louis that would be devastated if you left town. The Rams have given us some great times, and some distressing times. But that is what being a sports fan is about. I’m sure that some of these same people who are on here with their ‘I don’t care’ attitudes were celebrating at the super bowl parade 8 years ago, and cheering the Rams on in their super bowl loss 2 years later. Bandwagon fans are the worst.

TimB
I think St Louis is a good sports city and a good NFL city. The football Cardinals sold out 95% of their home games, yes attendance dropped dramitcally the last year but that happened after they basically were gone.
The Rams string of sell outs is quite impressive as well. They didn’t sell out every game last year but were very close. The last few thousand seats that don’t sell are not very good. They are in the corners and high and don’t offer very good sight lines and I wouldn’t pay for those seats to watch a bad team either.
Comparing Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Green Bay/Milwaukee to name a few to St Louis as football towns is liking comparing St. Louis to those towns in respect to baseball. Those cities don’t support their baseball teams like St Louis supports the Cardinals.
As far as fans selling seats to Green Bay and Steelers fans, well, that is free enterprise. I placed my tickets on Stub Hub for those two games and I had someone pay me $110 per ticket for my $44 seats for the Green Bay game and had someone pay $66/per ticket for the Steeler game. I took the money placed it my savings and applied it to my seasons tickets this year. I also figured I saved about $80 per game in parking and concessions as well.
I don’t think that makes me a bad fan, I saw an opportunity to help pay for this years seats and I took it. If the Rams record was reversed I would not have sold for the prices listed above.

Anyone who thinks this is just about football, then you are nuts. If the Rams, leave the dome and that entire sector of downtown will become a haven for crime with nothing but empty office, retail, and wearhouse space.
This city is falling apart, not one brick but one wall at a time. The Soulard neighborhood is already shattered by the loss of AB. The same will happen to the landing and the whole area around the dome should there not be a tenant. No ballpark village either so this city is nothing but a baseball team and some makeshift bars that surround it. Pathetic. Do any of you travel? Downtown St. Louis has fallen behing the Onaha’s, Kansas City’s, and Indianapolis’ of the world. We went from America’s Best Sports City to Americas Biggest Armpit. Oh yeah, but we do not have the Sporting News here anymore either to try to publish something positive about the city.

There is absolutely no comparison between A-B, which employs thousands and has a legacy of over a century and the Rams, who came here less than 15 years ago, employ barely a hundred, and stage a dozen events a year.

Are you people kidding me? You don’t care if the Rams leave St. Louis? Losing an NFL team is embarrassing. Losing two would pretty much say our city is irrelevant outside of the Cardinals. We need to do whatever we can to convince our owners that St. Louis is where the Rams need to stay.

Where are the Rams going to move to? The only city that would be better than St. Louis that doesn’t have an NFL team is Los Angeles, and the Jaguars will beat the Rams to moving there. Think about it. The key is to get Stan Kroenke to buy the team and renegotiate the lease. When the Edward Jones Dome is 30 years old in 2025, then decide if we need a new stadium. If we do build one, it will have to be an outdoor stadium.

How many sports teams will this city get, and then lose?

Maybe we should all convert to Chicago fans. At least there is stability there. . . .

drdrunk,
On the Jacksonville move, have you read anything about this lately?

The RAMS are gone as well and here’s why I say that. It all has to deal with the stadium lease. When the RAMS lease expire in 2015 or whenever it is, the condition of the stadium must be in the top 5% or 10% league wide. With the explosion of new football stadiums around the league, there’s no way the Edward Jones dome will be in that top 5% of stadiums.
The way I see it the RAMS will stay if the CVC has about 20-25 million to put into the stadium then they may stay. Or we have a St. Louis Based ownership group to step up and keep the RAMS here. Not to mention LA has no team, the owners are in LA, the number 2 TV market is open and the way money rules everything it was good while the RAMS are here but IT A VERY VERY SLIM CHANCE THE RAMS ARE STAYING IN ST. LOUIS

I think it is very amusing how some of you are making absolute statements about the intentions of the RAMS when you have no inside information. People need to chill, take a deep breath and quit being so pessimistic. You don’t have to bury you head in the ground, but quit acting like you are about to jump off a bridge when NOTHING NEW HAS HAPPENED! The NFL has the rights to the LA market. No team can move to LA on their own. LA, after over 15 years, still hasn’t built or worked out how to pay for a new stadium. We are a great sports town. If we do what has to be done, we will have the RAMS for a long time to come.

Annoyed
If we do what needs to be done to keep the Rams that will be a new stadium that will cost close to a billion dollars. The tax payers of this area will never approve a tax proposition again for stadiums.
Georgia’s kids will have a very large tax bill to pay and the only way they will have to pay it is via a sell of the team. The taxes on Georgia’s assets will come very close to three hundred million dollars and the IRS does not work on the installment plan when assets are readily available to be liquidated to pay the taxes. (Rams worth approximately $908 million).
There is a business man in LA that already has the new stadium in LA ready to begin construction in LA once a team agrees to move.
I hope Jacksonville does go soon so the Rams are out of that picture.

The Rams will use the threat of their departure as leverage in their attempt to get a new stadium built at taxpayer expense. Barring that, they will leave St. Louis and return to Los Angeles, where they came from. The NFL has been waiting for an opportunity to get a team back in L.A., and in their eyes, what better team than one that spent several decades there?

after reading through all the ab postings the last few days, and now this, i think my head is going to explode. let’s burn the whole damn city and be done with it.

I got the matches headcheese, just say when and where!

I don’t see how the Rams are going to stay here. They will require a new stadium that will cost in the neighborhood of a billion dollars once the “out” clause in their lease kicks in seven years from now. I like football, and I hate to see them move, but I could NEVER vote for a billion dollar (or even close in price) stadium. I’ll cheer for them while they’re here, but they are as good as gone in 2015.

Nero, if i honestly answered your question, they would probably kick me off this site. reading all this negative stuff the past few days makes me feel so low an ant could piss on me.

Here’s my take: Chip is not interested in football. He has lived his entire life in Hollywood with very wealthy parents. By default, he has called himself a “producer” like all rich kids in Hollywood. Suddenly he has something that’s worth a vast sum of money that he doesn’t want. What would you do in his situation? His entire life has been chasing the movie deal (and young starlets - just like his dad (a “Chip” off the old block as it were)). With control of the RAMS, he now has the clout to meet with the studio moguls who can make movie deals. Studio moguls who dream of owning an NFL team. Studio mogul and Chip make a deal. Studio mogul buys the team and Chip is now partner in a studio and “produce” all the movies he could ever dream of producing. Now do you think Hollywoood mogul wants a team in St. Louis? No. Hollywood mogul wants a team in LA. ‘Nuff said.

headcheese,
All the news lately can be depressing. All the negative talk yesterday irrates me as well in regards to AB. The boycotting of AB products will only hurt the employees here in STL and no one else. Even if Inbev did not buy AB the cuts were going to happen anyway. We need to keep what jobs we can and impress on Inbev this is a great place to do business and eventually add jobs. AB was very successful for decades here no reason Inbev cannot be more successful.
It is TIME the civic and business leaders in this town step up and do SOMETHING! to improve the business climate in this town. We need to start by eliminating the 90+ municipalities in the county so we can work together instead of against one another. We need to work as one instead of the city versus the county and all these municipalities looking out for their self serving interests instead of the good of the whole. The parts will not survive if the whole does not.
Come on Civic Progress step forward and be proactive. I cannot tell you the last time they did something positive for this town.

Brito is in town today, ask him what it will take to move the global headquarters here, if you don’t ask he cannot say yes. It maybe a longshot but you can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a ticket.

sorry I got way off topic but I had just had too vent.

This is the best news I’ve gotten all week. Bye Rams!

kdunlap, i couldn’t have said it better. if we mire ourselves in negativity, we will have nothing but a self-fulling prophecy of decline. your right, we need to get rid of all these little municipalities. they are a joke and corrupt as all hell.

kdunlap, I can’t disagree with you, but unfortunately the spoiled brats of groups like Civic Progress would rather further their own little agendas than make us a true regional community. We are stuck with it, we just need to figure out how to work it better…

After Hazelwood Ford, Fenton Chrysler and St. Louis AB who really gives a rat’s rear end if the Rams leave?

Voter,

“We spend huge amounts of tax money to kiss up to businesses thinking about moving into the City, but what do we do to help the businesses already here?”

What about the citizens of the city as well. I’m sure this stupid, antiquated Earnings Tax is driving away some as well. Don’t forget the nearly 10% sales tax when you dine in the city.

When will St. Louis realize, taxing people to death only drives them away

Gina, let’s not forget that it was Georgia’s greed that got her to leave LA and move to STL. The “kids” should and will do what’s right for them and their families.

Get ready to buy 2010 version LA Rams jerseys.

The Rams are as good as gone. We all know nobody tells the truth in these situations.

As long as they employ a murderer who can’t seem to learn how to call a cab, I could not care less about the Rams.

Can’t blame the Rams if they leave the Lou.St.louis is becoming a third world ghetto city.The young urban thugs had over run South St.Louis with murder,rape,robbery,drugs and all other types of crime.If I had the money I would leave this sh–hole town in a New York minute.PS-I lived and WORK in St.Louis city my whole life!

I am always amazed by people like AJ who whine about the City’s 1% tax. New York City “enjoys” a city income tax up to 4% and a state income tax rate up to 8.14% yet they don’t seem to have people or businesses fleeing the city.

AJ,
I totally agree, the problem for the city is that the city’s earnings tax of 1% and the .5% earnings tax on business revenue adds (I believe the last figure I heard) approx. 140 million to the city coffers and they have no other way of making up that income. Disolve the city into the county and you can have a county with much more political might in Washington and Jeff. City. We would be eligible for more highway money, housing funds etc. from the feds, most of these programs are population driven. We would also have more clout in Jeff City. I know someone (immediate family member) that was a state rep for years and he always said that the out state reps always fight against programs, tax breaks, infastructure improvements or anything that benefits the two metro areas in this state if they don’t get equal treatment. They think it should be even stevens and not based on the economic engines of the state.

Wonder why the Rams offices are in Earth City and not downtown, think earnings tax. It is a very digressive tax but as we sit today I don’t know how the city would survive without it.

Ladont,
Look at downtown Clayton, why do you think it is booming and business moves there instead of downtown St Louis it isn’t because it is easier to get to. The answer is the earnings tax plan and simple.
Centenne was willing to move downtown but the city had agreed to take the earnings tax and somehow use it to benefit Centenne, I don’t remember the details of the agreement anymore.
When Enegizer divested from Purinia they moved to Town and Country, one reason they gave the earnings tax.
New York is a completely different city than most in the US.

Los Angeles Rams of St. Louis? One way or another…they will again be the Los Angeles Rams. I hope very, very soon. The Rams deserve a monster city for the monster game!

Come back Rams, come back!

I love the Rams, and it’s been great having an NFL team, especially in the Kurt Warner years…even with the ups and downs.

But let’s be real. The Rams are headed elsewhere, and probably to LA. I’m fine with that. It’s business.

But what I’m NOT fine with is the fact that the taxpayers of MO had to pay millions of bucks for a team that isn’t staying. I think the owners should refund to the taxpayers, the millions they took from us, should the team move.

Steve M, it’s off the subject, but then maybe not, but i agree with you about south st.louis. never did i ever think it would come to what it is. the urban thugs control the city through fear and intimadation. our spineless city leaders won’t do a thing about it either. They have let a bunch of nincompoops totally screw up our public schools in the name of political correctness. half of, make that three fourths of the school board probably can’t even spell school. time for a city county merger and some solid leadership. trouble is, all the smart business leaders are gone.

The only way St. Louis can keep the RAMS is if they buy the team. Here’s your chance StL - spend $900 million to buy the team or spend $1 billion to keep the team. Money talks! If you’re not willing to come to the table with that kind of money, the team leaves. Maybe Kroenke will be willing to keep his 40% share of the team, so the city only needs to come up with 60% of $900 million - $540 million to buy controlling interest in the team. Sounds like a good deal to me.

One way St. Louis can keep the RAMS is if they buy the team. Here’s your chance StL - spend $900 million to buy the team or spend $1 billion to keep the team. Money talks! If you’re not willing to come to the table with that kind of money, the team leaves. Maybe Kroenke will be willing to keep his 40% share of the team, so the city only needs to come up with 60% of $900 million - $540 million to buy controlling interest in the team. Sounds like a good deal to me.

If the Rams depart St Louis, the people of this great region need to take a close look at the leaders they elect. So, lets take a look at St. Louis. I ask, is it a desirable city when compared to other cities, especially in terms of crime, infrastructure, schools, municipal government, etc.? I would say that other competing cities far outclass St. Louis in these areas. I would then take a look at how the city is run, and how decisions were made in the past that are favorable to civic pride/development. Again, I think St. Louis is far outclassed by other cities. Examples are the fallout of the Centene deal, the mosquito crater next to Busch Stadium, the earnings tax, the red light cameras vs. investing in functioning traffic light first, etc. etc. etc. If I were a businessman and wanted to look for a world class city to locate my firm, be it a sports team, corporate headquarters, etc., St. Louis does not make even the top 10. Until competent, civic-minded leadership is established, the continual decline of the region will continue.

It’s really sad to lose such an iconic and historical American company to a foreign investor. I think it’s time we really starting focusing on keeping American jobs and American companies here in the United States.

I’m a small business owner here in Saint Louis, and the economy nationally is hurting everyone - not this is definitely going to hurt at home. They have a website going I signed up at:

http://www.boycottAB.com

It’s a forum to share your ideas and opinions on the InBev buyout and to encourage people to buy from locally owned & operated businesses’.

If Saint Louis loses two football teams………….What does it say about us fans here in the StL? When I think about the Rams leaving I feel sick to my stomach!

There is some possible good news for STL, the latest rankings of most dangerous cities should be released in a month or so, there is a very good chance that STL could capture the number one spot again. Takes a lot of hard work and effort collectively from everyone to attain such a distinctive honor. What is dwontown? Pigeons, homless folks, boarded buildings, Cockroach Gardens behind the dome, numerous African Americans roaming around asking for change…the similarities between STL and Detroit are quite striking, although Detroit has a better sports fan base and all four major sports. RIP STL, it was good knowing ya, the Worlds Fair was over a century ago, move on from the ice tea and toasted (crap) ravioli, it’s the 21st century.

STL should give Carlos Brito a warm STL welcome. Ask him what high school he went to? Very important, you must make sure he is “worth’ and affluent enough to speak with. Second, tantalize his taste buds with all the STL has to offer. Start with a walk downtown around the Arch grounds and see how long it takes him to succumb to the heat and humidity. Take him to the hill for a real culinary treat, toasted ravioli with a italian salad loaded with “provel” cheese since St. Louisans cannot pronounce provelone. Then while at dinner, bitch his ears off about highway 40, and then we he says I don’t see it on the map, I only see I-64, tell him your crazy it’s forty and the traffic sucks, the world is ending casue it takes us 10 minutes longer to get home from a Cardinal game. Also talk civic pride with him and mention how no one came to see Pope John Paul the second when he came to town but that more people came out for the demolition of the old STL arena. This is sure to want to make him keep the N.A. HQ in STL. Dig down deep and you to can come up with many positive things that can show Mr Brito what STL is REALLY all about. Perhpas Al Sharpton can come to town and block 40 when the grand opening happens.

Man,I look like a civic pride booster compared to that Carlos Burito guy that keep blogging.Maybe we can share a couple of bottles of his In-Vest Brew.GO RAMS!!!!

OK, here’s a clue. Highway 40 (64?) has been closed for repairs. Gas is over $4 and probably will hit $5 or $6 or higher by the time the highway is finished. When would be the BEST time to add the metrolink track down the middle of the highway? Yep…right now!! Are we doing it? Sorry, but the bla, bla, bla couldn’t get bla, bla, bla… It would be great to have Metrolink from West County to the stadium, but the same forces that allow TWA, AB, McDonald Douglas, Pet MilK, Ralston, Southwestern Bell, The Post-Dispatch, etc to move out - and NOT replace them - are the same small thinkers who can’t see further than their own agenda and Quarterly profits. They’ll allow the resources of St Louis to evaporate and not build infrastructure for future growth, like schools, public transportation, etc. What will it take to change?? Do we really want to be a third tier city? How can we spend billions to build a highway that fewer people will use because of the high cost of gas?

tom, the metrolink wouldn’t work. we first have to build the highway, then tear it up and put down the rail. how else would the local pols be able to get under the table payoffs twice.

Carlos,
If they would do the crime statics is a fair and stastical manner, STL would not show up in the top 20.
Here is what I mean, as we all know STL is an independent city, therefore, the statistics they use are from the city only and the per capita murder rate is based on the cities population.
When they compile the murder rate for Chicago they also use the statistics and population of Cook County because Chicago is part of Cook County and not independent like STL. So the Chicago ranking is skewed because it includes more than Chicago proper.
This same statistical flaw is also used against Baltimore and Richmond VA. They are the other two cities with populations over 100,000 that are not part of a county.

carlos, you forgot about the three major hometown banks that used to be downtown; Mercantile Trust, First National, and Boatmen’s. All were doing good till the first initial, name, III or IV surname country day, ivy league guys came in the early 70’s to take daddy’s place. All they knew how to do was get plastered and na-l the secretaries and female clerical help. Trust me, I know because i witnessed it first hand.

kdunlap, you are right about the stats, however, if you eliminated the daily northside murders, half the funeral homes there would be out of business. and just think, all those dead guys who were “just beginning to turn their lives around” would get to do so. might even have a few more babies with five different women.

Tom,
You are correct, the business leaders cannot see past their quarterly balance sheets and calculate their next bonus.
The business leaders in this town use to be just that LEADERS. Now is simply how high can I get the stock price, what peon can I whack so my bonus is even bigger (ever see what happens to a companies stock when they annouce huge layoffs, it usually soars), do I want to sell my Florida home and have a second home in Scottsdale or do I keep both?
It is pure and simple GREED, GREED, GREED and more GREED, see AB as a reference and I am not talking about the Busch family (except for Adolphus the IV)I am talking about the purchasers.

Ladont,

I understand. However, there is plenty more to do in NY, not to mention the number of people there. Chicago is the same way. High taxes yet people still flock there. Strange, but there are plenty of things to do in NY and Chicago downtowns compared to St. Louis downtown.

If you actually pay the 1%, and think you get value for it, fine. I don’t see the value of paying it. Waste and it’s ugly cousin, fraud take most of it.

kdunlap,

The Earnings Tax amounts to about 33% of the annual city budget if I remember right from the last city report.

St. Louis has some potential and has been on the rise in many ways. There are many areas that are looking better than ever - Benton Park, Washington, Lafayette, etc. And many others on the way - Gaslight, Soulard, etc. Anyway, as the residence around a city improve & home values increase, there is an increased demand for higher end goods (groceries, restaurants, entertainment, etc.). With this in mind, it is possible to think of attracting and keeping a sporting team as a byproduct of improving an area itself. Too often it is thrown around that bringing a quality sporting team into a metro area is going to revive it. That is unfortunately rarely true. How often do you hear people say, “I’d love to live right next to the Rams’ stadium” (whatever they’re calling it today)? Sure, businesses will move in to leach off of the game crowds, but those businesses can be in a bad situation in the off-season.

Sporting teams are not the only type of franchise that thrives in a healthy city. Corporate headquarters, Metro-links, retail businesses, etc. all do as well. We should not worry about whether or not the Rams are going to leave. At this point, we need to worry about if the rest of the affluent residents in the city are going to move out. There is a lot of beautification going on in the city (unfortunately, too often at the hands of individual investors rather than city leaders). If we keep a long term perspective, things will come around.

Having screw-ups like Ballpark Village and other high profile project failures can be major setbacks and can really tarnish the image of the city. Not so much because they leave gaping holes, but because they also hurt morale of those living their dust. If our “city leaders” could actually show some high profile success stories (and not just throw a festival here and there), maybe we could maintain a higher morale in the city limits and the rest will eventually follow.

carlos, don’t forget that another great st.louis invention is the car bomb. that was pretty effective back in the 70’s

A realistic hometown girl here:

St. Louis needs to stop pretending, stop dreaming and get a grip. We are not a Chicago, New York, Dallas or even a Detroit. We’re a has been ash heap from a previous time. We think that having a couple of pro sport teams makes us a 1st rate city—WRONG. Quality government, lifestyle, jobs and school system makes for a 1st rate city. Who cares if the Rams, Cardinals, Blues leave? Maybe if they did the public would start to focus on the real needs of this city. We are a disgraceful, rundown, dead zone and are too “proud” to see it.

Two thoughts. As far as the Rams go, we’re in for a Stadium Fight but the team will stay. There are 32 NFL franchises and sustainable markets are dwindling. LA is the only possible big market left. The Jaguars are in a worse situation with a longer history of fan apathy, they’ll sell and move first. There won’t be many locations the Rams can move to in 7 or so years after that happens. We’ll get a new owner that will want a shiny new stadium, but he won’t be able to go anywhere realistically and make any more money than he can make here. So the fight will be on in about 2015 for a new stadium. But what do you expect. The Dome will be 20 years old by then, Busch II was about 40 at its demise. Everyone, from ownership to fans hates the place anyway. It was built at exactly the wrong time for a Dome, right before the common use of a retractable roof (which is what a team in this city needs for football). So we’ll go through that fight, but the team will stay.

My second comment is about the posts here. I haven’t read one, but I bet I can guess what a healthy percentage of the comments are like: Big owners are greedy, players are greedy, the world is against us anyway, let them leave, I don’t care. The world was a much better place years ago when there were no problems to deal with and I could go see a game for $1 and buy food cheaper, blah blah blah. These stuck in the past, big business sucks fatalists irritate me to no end and I have no use for them. They won’t make a difference if the team stays or goes anyway, they’ll just sit back and whine.

I have been to some of these boomtowns Charlotte and Houston and they are full of plastic irritating transplants that all think there kids are going to grow up to be something great, when they will probably turn out to be superficial losers like themselves, and by the way those cities have horrendous slums that look like they are straight out of Calcutta, I mean STL we are not doing great, but those boomtowns aren’t all that great either,we do need to address our Balkanized county and STL’s independent city status, or STL city will continue to be strangled, Ihope the RAMS stay.

Unfortunatly, St. Louis peaked in 1904 when it was the 4th largest city in the U.S., and it has been downhill since then. First in shoes, first in booze… just a matter of time before StL is without any major league franchise.

Chip Rosenbloom was quoted as saying “The Rams won’t be sold on my watch.”

I am surprised at the number of people ready to throw in the towl on the Rams. Can we really afford to take their departure so lightly? True, subjects like education and civic improvements are more important, but if you want to improve those things, the best way that I see to do it is by raising the tax base for the city. Letting the Rams leave, or for that matter any entertainment like the Blues, Muny, Symphony, etc, will only help to deplete the tax base by making visiting the city or living there less attractive.
Yes, they have not been good the last few years, but is there any reason to feel that they won’t be in the future? We were thrilled to pay for them in 1995 when they weren’t any good…or is it that we’re full of “fair weather fans” today? Everyone took it for granted when the Big Red left, but it didn’t take long for us to regret not having a team.
If we want to keep them here, I believe that we can do it if the community is willing to step up to the plate.

I’m fed up with professional sports owners (and players) holding fans hostage to their ever expanding wallets! Let the Rams go, tear down the Dome and put up some decent middle class housing and a grocery store.

God no-don’t sell the Rams. If they leave, the rich folks will just take over whatever poor folks got left for entertainment and ruin it forever like they’ve done everything else they get their hands on.

doug in crestwood
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, the Rams number one draft choice will probably get 30 million. I look at this and wonder why do I spend $1,000 for 2 seats each year, at times I think am I nuts for supporting this kind of insanity?
The reason I do it, I find it thoroughly enjoyable. There are 6 of us that tailgate (two of these people I did not know before the Rams moved to STL and since have become great friends)and have a great time. We enjoy going and watching football in person, we enjoy the thrill of winning playoff games and super bowls. We have a great time at house parties for Rams aways games.
I would support a new stadium or a complete overhaul (retractable roof) of the existing stadium with tax dollars IF it done as the same way the existing stadium was built. That would be through taxes on hotel rooms and rental cars. I would also support paying for it through a use taxes such as a premium on tickets, increased sales tax on items purchased in the stadium etc.

We should start a new game, it will be called St. Losers. Everyone will vote on line which of the following will occur first.

1. Rams leave St. Louis

2. Wachovia is bought by someone who moves A.G. Edwards out of St. Louis

3. Macy’s Department Store downtown closes

4. Bondholders lose a fortune on the Renaissance Hotel

5. Lumiere Casino loses money quarter after quarter

6. Spinnaker Cos. never redevelopes St. Louis Centre

My vote is for #2, Wachovia is bought by someone that moves A.G. Edwards out of St. Louis. Of course eventually they will probably all come true.

I’m not the boss of St. Louis, but if I was, I would get my act together. “A house divided cannot stand,” describes our ridiculous balkanized region. The city (350,000) and county (1,000,000+) must merge to have the clout to compete not only on a national level, but also to direct investment where its needed on its own terms in its own backyard. The state of St. Louis is embarrassing.

Why can’t we put it to a vote? Are Sunset Hills residents so enamored with their elected officials (who sold them out to a mall developer) they would vote against it? How about the rest of the struggling mass of me-too municipalities? Does anyone–besides the elected officials–care about their economically helpless mini-village?

It reminds me of doing your job despite the best efforts of an incompetent boss: You go to work and do what has to be done, no matter who gets the credit. Or you move on. (And then there’s a boss of ‘no one,’ and that’s not so glorious afterall…)

Good luck, St. Louis. I’m going to uni-gov Indianapolis. Maybe I’ll be back once I’ve figured out how they’ve done everything right… and can afford a new billion-dollar football stadium to boot. Here’s to being a Hoosier…!

Ryan,

Indy is a modern day success story! There downtown is incredible with so many restaurants and upscale shopping to boot, and not to mention, there not eager to slap a parking ticket on you either. They did a bold initiative and merged and it has been an amazing rennissance since.

St.Loser is all about introverted people who care about s hi t other than the lenghth of their lawn. It’s all about our slice of America and to hell with everywhere else. From the perverbial high school question, to which is not a nice thing to newcomers, it’s a great way to make us not want to get to know your fake asses, to the constant Cardinal talk, to the god awful food like toasted ravioli, “provel” cheese which is not a cheese, it’s provelone which the average hoosier in St.Loser cannot pronounce.

You guys bitch to no end of the world ceasing due to highway 40 (which I will call I-64 since that’s what it is)and the traffic was no worse, maybe a touch better than when I-64 was open. You frowned on the Pope and stayed home since St.Losers don’t want to sit in a little traffic for a chance to see the Pontiff, but would rather come out in droves to watch the arena get imploded. Hey speaking of implosions, they should stick a detonantor on the arch and do a raffle to see who wins the chance to pull the cord and blow that dump of a town into the river once and for all.

Change sucks, but change is good, demand more from your local officials and tell them the area should unify. There are strenghth in numbers,not midnight basketball (insert laugh now) the city is losing business to cities like Indy and Nashville who have surpassed St.Loser in terms of conventions, infrastructure investments, and by the way, also have more traffic to since they are GROWING!!! imagine that. Ok, enough, run back to west county people, get away from all the blacks but use the old excuse of the school system when in fact under your breath your running from the blacks. Glad I left that crap hole many moons ago, love visiting and seeing things that never change. Oh the Worlds Fair was only 100 years ago wasn’t it? you’d think the damn thing happened last night.

Indulge a former resident in a few random musings.

Balkanization vs regional cooperation was one of the principal issues raised by the Pierce Report years ago. Nobody seems to have listened. We have fragmentation on the West side and lack cooperation between East and West. So we’re stuck with a land locked airport (should have moved it to Columbia Ill as was proposed in the 60s)and we may never see completion of the new bridge.

Remember the slogan from the 60s “Downtown St. Louis gives you more?” It’s a joke. Last I heard there’s not even a book store there. By the way, I hear Tony’s is looking to move out!

Those of us in Jacksonville are really ssssooooooo tired of the goofball rumors people are always spreading about us.

The Jaguars are not leaving Jacksonville, and, in fact have a 30 year lease until 2025.

The Jags owner Wayne Weaver stated just the other day that he will NEVER sell, and that the team would be sold only from his “cold dead hands.”

Weaver only owes $110 million on the team, and has recently tried to refinance the various loans into a single loan to save money. Other than that he is quite happy where he is here in Jacksonville.

As for our Stadium attendance: get your facts straight.

Jacksonville is the 13th largest city in population in the USA.

We have a brand new stadium, that seats over 75,000.

But, We built it “too large” for our area. Therefore we got special permission from the NFL to “cover” or “not count” 10,000 seats toward our blackout cap so as to make us “even” with the other cities with smaller stadiums.

It is true that we do blackout games on tv alot, but that is not really an accurate statement..

Each stadium has a pre-determined number of seats that have to be sold by 72 hours before game day in order to avoid a blackout.

That “number” is different for each stadium.

We believe our “number” is still too large, and most older stadiums “number” are too small. Therefore the numbers are skewed, and other teams should be having more blackouts than what they actually get.

The system is stacked against us.

We get blacked out quite often because we procrastinate alot, and buy the tickets at the last minute. Usually on game day.

Which is a real bummer, as more than half of the games that were blacked out over the last 2 years “would not have been blacked out if the NFL counted the actual number of people that showed up on game day.”

But the NFL doesn’t work that way, as they are contractualy required to give a 3 day blackout warning to the tv networks to make other arrangements.

So, in short. Blackouts are not really an issue.

Weaver isn’t selling the team, or moving it.

As for Los Angeles, they already lost 2 teams and don’t deserve to get one back, and probably will NEVER get another NFL team.

In fact, LA voters have turned down THREE referendums to increase taxes to build a new stadium there.

So LA won’t be getting a team.

As for you in St Louis, your problem is simply that your Team Owners aren’t interested in being owners. They want to sell, and get their inheritance.

So, the Rams WILL be sold, but I doubt that they will leave town.

The Vikings aren’t going to leave either.

The only team that might actually move is New Orleans. Simply because the city is dying, and will never be what it was.

Hope this helps…

The Rams should go back to L.A. There are 3 different groups of prospective buyers willing to put up 1 Billion dollars tied into a Stadium deal. If St. Louis doesn’t build a new stadium by 2015, the Rams are gone. Also, there have not been any prospective buyer groups in the St. Louis area come forward yet.

what “Alfie Crow” of “JagNation” has to say about who , if any, will move to LA:

Escape from LA - Part Two (http://ind.scout.com/a.z?s=113&p=2&c=769657)

“Finally, we move on to the Jacksonville Jaguars. Many of the reasons that most national media members claim Jacksonville is a prime candidate to move are because of their struggles to fill the stadium.

Well, most teams would struggle to fill a stadium that greatly outdoes its market.

Jacksonville Municipal Stadium at full capacity seats 73,000 originally and has been raised to seat 76,877 recently.

In 2005, owner Wayne Weave decided to tarp over 9,713 seats in order to avoid blackouts and make the stadium size more in synch with its market.

Jacksonville certainly erred when they originally built the stadium, however the city also had obligations to some college football games such as the Gator Bowl and the Florida vs. Georgia game.

Just looking at raw numbers, in 2007 the greater Jacksonville metropolitan area was listed with a population of 1,300,823 people.

This means that in order to fill the current stadium, which is only 14 years old, would require 1 in every 17 people in Jacksonville attend the game.

The city of Chicago, for example has a population of nearly three million people. The Bears play in Soldier Field which has a capacity of roughly 63,000. Judging by those statistics, only 1 out of every 47 people need to attend Bears games to fill that capacity.

The story that “broke” last week in the Philadelphia Daily News about the Jacksonville Jaguars being sold to C. Dean Metropoulos hinted at the team to Los Angeles sooner rather than later.

That would be rather difficult considering Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver has professed that his team is not for sale, and Los Angeles doesn’t have a stadium to suit an NFL team any time soon.

The team was supposedly being sold to C. Dean Metropoulos through the Galatioto Sports Partners. Doesn’t that name sound familiar? That’s probably because it is.

In June of 2007, the Florida Times-Union reported that “They (Jacksonville Jaguars) have hired a New York investment firm, Galatioto Sports Partners, to help them find new investors so they could reduce their $110 million debt.”

Some simple research could have been done to save the city of Jacksonville and owner Wayne Weaver frustration for a day, hearing another false report about their team being sold and moved to Los Angeles.

Wayne Weaver issued a statement the following day saying “This team is not going to California. This team is the Jacksonville Jaguars. I don’t know how I can do anything more to reaffirm my commitment. I want our fans to get as excited as I am. Everybody wants me to speculate on the future. I’m not going to speculate on the future. At some point, maybe, I would sell the team, but not now. Whatever happens in the future, I can assure you of one thing: The Jacksonville Jaguars are going to be the Jacksonville Jaguars.”

When asked about the teams interesting in finding minority investors, Weaver had this to say—

“That’s always an option, but if I ever do that, it’ll be with someone who shares the same passion for winning football and to be part of the Jacksonville ownership,” Weaver said. “Until there’s a solution to the L.A. market, you’re going to have speculation. I can tell you the Jaguars aren’t one of the teams lining up to go to L.A.”

Unless Wayne Weaver is an outright liar, which he has proven himself not to be, the Jacksonville Jaguars will not be leaving Jacksonville anytime soon.

Maybe its wishful thinking for Jaguars fans to hope that these stories will cease for once and the city can go through a season without constant talk of possibly moving to Los Angeles.

Unfortunately, there will probably be another story about the Jaguars moving in the next couple of weeks, it is inevitable.

Jacksonville is the easy target. It’s a small market, it struggles to sell tickets at times, and it’s not anywhere on the national media radar.

As I’ve pointed out, there are teams in far worse situations than the Jacksonville Jaguars.

I don’t believe a single team in NFL history has moved without there being a stadium issue.

Jacksonville is not in that situation, and will not be in that situation for quite a few years.”