Let me ask the obvious: what is the race of the attackers and the victims?

I don’t think a few random incidents will discourage commuters from using Metro. When I lived in LA, I noticed there were frequent incidents of violence on their public transportation systems, and residents had no choice but to continue using it. With rising fuel prices, St. Louisans will unfortunately be faced with the same dilemma.

Uniformed officers should be hired to ride Metro and circulate around the boarding platforms, and to make their presence known in general. I think they’re more effective than plainclothes officers in deterring crime vs. merely apprehending the criminal after an incident.

Maybe Joe Edwards thinks this is an abberation until it starts affecting his business or his family is attacked by these waste of space, then perhaps his views will change. I personally will never ride the Metrolink again. I have friends who ride it to and from work and are just happy to reach their destination without any problems. There needs to be more security on the trains as well.I have watched the reports by the Metro officials on the news saying this is an isolated incident and playing it down. I guarentee they would not allow their families to ride the Metro at night.

Hey WebsterMark, what does the race have to do with it? Violence is violence. What’s not ‘Obvious’ is what we gain from knowing the race.

Anyway, yes, I think it’s good that police are stepping up security. There is no way you can make it completely safe, but there has to be some presence at the stations, on the trains. St. Louis is still learning the dance of mass transit, I am sure if a family was attacked outside a Cardinal game, we wouldn’t re-think the whole idea of a MLB team in our city. Thank you.

WebsterMark,

Answer that question any way you want – it shouldn’t change the way you deal with the situation.

Back on topic:
I’m not sure three incidents constitutes a crime wave. I would have to see the crime statistics for the Metro compared to that of the city at large – is it better or worse? From my personal experience on the train, I’ve never dealt with anything more offensive than body odor. Still, when you’re the victim of an assault, statistics and probability are meaningless – it feels like a crime wave to you!

As for addressing the crime up-tick, I think the police are doing the right thing by stepping up security. Perhaps getting high resolution cameras and posting cash rewards (decent sized ones that really encourage snitches) might also help.

I have used Metro Link to get to the ball game a few times. I will never use it again. Kids without tickets getting on and off when there was standing room only. My car gets 35 MPG and I can park for $5.00 in a parking garage across from TGI Fridays. My wife feels a lot safer. For the life of me, I can’t fugure out why they chose to go through some of the neighborhoods they did. I know the tracks were there but it is just such an unsafe route. They need police on all of the staging areas around the clock as well as on every car. I think the best bet is to check cars coming into the parking lots instead of waiting for them to get to the actual platforms. It doesn’t take much of a rocket scientist to tell who’s there to ride and who’d there to make trouble.

There never has been a better arguement for carrying a concealed pistol. The police and civil authorities are useless as they always are with their expected lip service responses…..bla bla bla bla bla bla.

Just another reason to stay away from the late great city that has become nothing more than a giant ghetto.

You guys are dreaming if you don’t think race has anything to do with it.
1) this attack should have been front page news the morning after it happened. My family and I were on vacation and I wanted to leave the car at a metrolink and ride home rather than have someone pick us up. Four of us with luggage. That was two nights before this attack happened. It could have been my family fighting.
2)if this were a group of white roving youths in South St. Louis attacking a black family, the Post would have stopped the presses to get the story out the next morning….

Several times over the past few months, while riding the metrolink at late hours (after 11pm) - I see security officers are far away from the platform, maybe to get a smoke? There are also plenty of stations that have no security. I would think a consistent presence among all the stations would decrease the likelihood of attacks.

The race of whoever is immaterial, the only thing that matters is that a group of people find it fun to attack innocent people. Thankfully for the people that were attacked none of the thugs decided to bring a weapon that night.

Kurt, you ask an interesting question, because I wonder how often this happens at a Metro station. Weren’t we just blogging last week about how much more careful people are with their kids even though there is no statistical difference in kidnapping over the generations? Is this story doing the same kind of thing? Just something to think about.

Here’s something that the liberals won’t like: Let law-abiding citizens who have passed background checks and had proper training in the use of firearms carry a personal weapon with them on public transportation. Just pulling out a 9mm and flashing it at that thug crowd would make them think twice more than anything else…

If I have learned one thing, you are basically not safe anywhere. You can’t count on having a police substation in a mall to protect you from some idiot who decides to bring in a gun and use it. You can’t depend on security cameras in a parking lot to keep a thug from grabbing your purse, wallet or worse. The metro link is no different. You just have to assume that a crime could take place at anytime and if you choose to take public transportation you should try to do it in numbers. Carry mace, carry a whistle, keep your cell phone fully charged, learn some basic self defense moves and pray for the best.
We can’t live in a box.

One of my co-workers said he was on the Grand bus after work not to long ago,and an argument broke out between an older”gentleman” and a young “Thundercat”.They were screaming and cussing at each other,than they both pull out guns at each other.The bus driver stop the bus ,and everyone ran off the bus like a bunch of cock roaches being chase by a can of Raid.Luckily no guns were fired off,but I will still drive my GMC Safari to work and where ever else I need to go to.

Where is Bernie Getz when you need him????

Solution? Concealed weapons.

I lost a bit of respect for Joe Edwards because of his comment. All attacks are serious.

WebsterMark, you’re on the right track (no pun intended) when bringing up the question but it’s a question for a topic far bigger than this article. Their race is not the issue in regards to how best to provide security on the metrolink unless it is used in the context of racial profiling. For instance, it would be important to know what the race of the thugs are so that the police can better identify potential problems when large groups of this race are seen walking around The Loop and at Metrolink stations. Of course, liberals and their ACLU buddies would hate this because safety is not an issue for them…but protecting thugs rights are.

Now, to the bigger question you posed: if this was a group of 20-100 white thugs I would agree with you that it would make front page news or, in the very least, it would be duly noted in the news story.

Race plays a very large part as to why metrolink has been voted down in St. Charles and, a few years ago, in Edwardsville/Glen Carbon/Collinsville. There was a perceived notion that a bad element would be brought to those cities via the metrolink. If you follow the history of Union Station and now Saint Louis Galleria, this perception could be valid. Metrolink killed Union Station as it brought over large groups of youths from East St. Louis. Union Station eventually had to implement their infamous dress code policy (remember Nelly not being allowed in?) due to all the thugs. I haven’t been there in years but it was ghost town for years because the thugs from East St. Louis took over. Saint Louis Galleria had to implement a youth restricted policy on the weekends because of the large groups of trouble-makers that were coming over from the metrolink. (They also came over to SLG when Tropicana Bowling instituted an admission fee for non-bowlers). I have used the terms thugs here but to be even more blunt: black youths. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but black youths (typically males, 13-22) seem to be the troublemakers in all these areas.

Stonger police presence and profiling will help to keep metrolink (and the malls) safe for all.

While I agree that law-abiding citizens should be allowed to carry concealed weapons for protection (this is an ideal situation for that right), I must point out the fact that a family returning from vaction in Puerto Rico who has yet to reach their car would not be carrying a weapon, not unless we also change the laws for air travel (which won’t be happening anytime soon).

i’m off to the airport for a two day business trip. I will not be taking the Metrolink to Lambert…..

When I read that “roving groups of youths” are common around the Loop and the police are basically powerless to stop it, it reminded me of the stories coming out of Paris two years ago and the ‘roving groups of youths’ and the fact France had handcuffed itself and was powerless to stop them either. Those roving gangs were Muslim immigrants but no one in Paris wanted to say that either. They were called disenfranchised youths. They weren’t attacking other Muslims….

To go back to the original question…I would not be riding Metrolink in that area at that time of night. I would have cabbed it home from the airport. I used to ride from Shrewsbury to CWE to work during the day hours and never had any trouble, BUT, definitely some situations that COULD have become troublesome. I quit riding but not because of security issues, but rather convenience issues.

Race does have something to do with gangs of people in the city. DUH.

I think whether it’s a group of 20 white or black teens walking around, it’s not a good thing. We can also look at the media reaction to an Amber Alert of a white girl and a black girl…Some things aren’t fair, now let’s move forward.

The honor system is still a good idea, here’s why: Building elaborate stations where city employee(s) do nothing but sit on their butts and make sure someone pays their $2 bucks, is a waste of tax dollars. Use that money for increasing security. You may get a someone who doesn’t pay, but in the long run, you will get more riders because it will be a safer way to travel.

About St. Charles: I think it’s good they voted down the Metrolink, here’s why: When someone moves to St. Charles, they are making a sincere effort to move away from scary minorities. It wouldn’t be fair.

One more thing, all of you saying, “I WILL NEVER RIDE THE METROLINK AGAIN.” Fine, don’t.

You’re naive if you think that race doesn’t figure into these assaults. If 20 white youths attack a black family of 5 (”Let’s get them!”), it surely constitutes a hate crime, which falls under federal law. Do we really think that being black immunizes oneself from racism? This was an unprovoked, brutal, hate crime on an innocent family simply because of race. The sooner we recognize this, the sooner the *entire* St. Louis community can begin to respond. This wasn’t just boys being boys, people…

I can’t believe that Edwards or anyone would say this is a surprise, or an abberation. It’s neither. Last summer my boyfriend and I were assaulted and robbed during broad daylight at the Delmar station. I have maybe ridden the train once since.

And people shouldn’t be fooled: the police and security increasing around the area will do little to nothing, because if anyone has seen a Metrolink security guard you KNOW they are a joke, out of shape and apathetic at best. And the police can’t be everywhere.

I don’t really know what the answer is, but something has got to be done. There is an epidemic of disrespect for humanity among our youth and it does have to do with race. Whether it’s black kids pouncing on a white family or a group of white kids beating a Mexican immigrant to death for kicks, yes, it does have to do with race. This city is not doing enough to take care of its young and we are seeing the repercussions.

I ride the Metrolink twice daily from Fairview Heights to CWE, and usually have no reason to feel apprehensive, even on the few occasions I have ridden as late as 10 P.M. Last night was an exception, though, and I was very disappointed in the response from Metro security. Two youngish-middle aged African-American men were almost coming to blows in the aisle right before the Grand station about 8 P.M., a passenger near the red call button buzzed the driver to tell him we needed security(any other time there would have been at least one in the vicinity!),the train was fairly crowded and many of us were getting a bit nervous with the situation.We pulled into the Grand station, an African-American security guard stepped on and got off fairly quickly without removing the combatants.He couldn’t have said more than “settle down” to them before leaving them on the train to continue their loud verbal altercation through the next several stops.I don’t know if race was significant here or not,but one wonders.Another passenger(I don’t know if he knew them-he was also African-American) stepped in to try to defuse the situation, but they were still cussing at each other and were chest-to-chest when I last saw them on the Civic Center platform.

It seems to me that there is more security on the Illinois side, and sheriffs are a common sight on the trains as well as the platforms. Not so in Missouri.The only problem I have witnessed in Illinois was a woman slapping around her toddler(I didn’t actually see this, I spoke to the woman who reported it,I just saw the end result and asked what happened),which was promptly reported to an on-board sheriff and she was removed at the next station.I plan to continue riding Metro, but I may invest in pepper spray.Gina is right, though, you have to take responsibility for your own safety.Cameras just record the crimes, they don’t stop them, and I also question how useful many of the guards would be for anything beyond calling for backup.

The concealed weapon agruement. So tired of it. A concealed weapon in this case would have done nothing to prevent this and probably made it worse. There were TWENTY of them!!! and I would guess at least one was packing. The second you reach for that gun HOLSTERED to your shoulder they would have pulled the gun from their waist and put a bullet between their eyes. I have a good friend who works in the projects often. He has a concealed weapon permit and does carry a gun. He admits if he is ever robbed or car jacked at gun point it will do him little good. The thug has the element of surprise and has his gun POINTED AT YOU!! And if this thug thinks for a nano second you have a gun you are good as dead.

I too have stopped riding metro. The group of black thugs that get off and on metro at their liesure (like they own the thing)without paying and then present the attitude they are thugs got too nerve racking for me. I decided I would never enter the lions cage at the zoo so why am I riding public transportation when these thugs are worse than a caged lion. At least if the lion attacts it has a valid reason!!!!

Race does play a part wether we are to afraid to say it or not. Look at the murders in the city and county. Where are they? predominantly black neighborhoods. I don’t think you need for proof than that to figure out who commits more crime. I would agree that there are social economic reasons for this but I don’t see the black community or the black race doing much to stop it. They need to start with black women having children out of wedlock

10/15 years ago a talk show host Bruce B said until St Louis does something about the young black punks this will never make it. He was run out of town you might look at getting him back. But its great that ballpark village is under way so we can bring more raw dumb meat downtown in the off season.

First off, we don’t need untrained fools on trains with weapons. The cops have enough trouble already. There is a problem of some security folks with Metrolink who do know some thugs, and many times they chat with them on the same day these folks hassle people. I’ve never had trouble on the link, but many folks have. I’m used to walking amongst some tough characters, and there is certain things they look for in an easy mark.

I remember the first time I had to deal with some folks who imformed us they raised their kids to crime. Purposefully they did this. They threw it in our face and seemed to enjoy further that we would be supporting their kids. Yes, people, there are folks who breed to have little criminals put on earth. You saw a bit of that when that guy robbed that place holding his son last week.

Perhaps it is time to sterilize repeat criminals and those who breed their kids to be criminals. It has not much to do with economics, and more to do with attitudes. We are coming to the place where no amount of law enforcement on every corner will help. And with no more work details in prisons, we will have a big load supporting all those who are locked up as time goes by.

Here you may see more peoples of color raging, but in appalachia you see as many whites acting fools. They are already letting folks slide for violent crimes against people because there is not enough room in the jails. Tie those incorrigibles tubes…snip…snip…snip. Problem solved for the next generation. Your kids! it’s a lot safer than everyone carrying guns everywhere.

Tireofit,

Fine, be defenseless if you want. Frankly, when faced with 20 “youths” determined to do me harm, I’d rather be carrying. If more people carried and defended themselves, these “youths” might think twice about assaulting white people at random.

Kurt, if you were worried about your numbers on TOTD, I am sure this one is gonna get a few responses.

I forgot who proposed it awhile back, maybe Bosley Sr., that we have public canings. Catch the thugs, cane them in public, charge admission, and you kill two birds with one stone, punish the criminal and raise funds for Metro security.

I agree with Slugger. Sterilize deadbeats and in a generation or two this country will be near perfect.

There is absolutly nothing worse than traveling home from a St Louis sporting event in a sardine like atmosphere jammed packed with drunks,smelling of god knows what dropping the f bomb every other word in front of my 11 yr old and his two pals.I won’t make that mistake again!

Oh and there has to be some sort of capacity law people keep pileing on the doors can bearly shut and further more those of you CAC folks, you fire that gun your more likely to harm an innocent bi-stander than the intended thug. When its crowded the way it was Sunday night following the Carinals game security is helpless its a very scarry situation with crime waiting to happen.

The last time I road metro was leaving and returning from UMSL. A group of 5-6 black thugs began harassing me and a friend. When he brandished his badge and asked them if they knew what comes with it (9mm), they backed down and moved to the end of the car. I’ll keep driving my own car and burnig my own fuel so I don’t have to put up with people like that. You don’t hear stories of “gangs” of white kids assaulting people on Metro. Race matters.

It’s so sad that someone from out of town who rides the Link from the airport to Clayton has to go thru that ghetto from Wellston to the FP station. I remember once I was out at the airport and got on with a guy from out of town going to one of the nicer hotels in Clayton. He asked me about the safety of the train. I told him I’d not had any problems. So I’m in the front of the car w/ my bike and he is near the back when a band of roving youths board and circle around this guy. His eyes got as big as saucers and he looked at me like he was scared to death. He got off the train and they gang did too. I hope he made it. That’s the last time I recommend the train if it has to go thru the ghetto.

Of course, Metro is broke so change won’t be coming soon. This is just one more example of how a city tries to be progressive but somehow manages to screw it up.

I live next to the Forest Park stop and take Metrolink everyday. The design flaws at the top of the stairs when combined with no Metro security at the top of the stairs is a key factor in the intimidation of all but the bravest and stoutest commuters. Metro provides security down on the platform only. Yes, for the last week there has been a City Police officer sitting in the parking lot in an SUV with an eye on things. Before that though– nothing. Ill mannered youth spill from the bus stop where they have every right to be, to the top of the 4 foot wide stairwell that is bounded close by an elevator. There is no legitmate reason they should be allowed to stand here, albeit there is a cigarette ash disposal unit placed exactly in the same spot. Thanks for that Metro! (Get rid of it).This is a serious design flaw. A commuter, especially anyone with luggage, is hard put to pick his way through the youth that stand close together and don’t move. Have you ever tried to squeeze by a couple of people who are sitting bikes, with nothing to do? Someone getting off the train who has made their way up the steep stairs has to then be sure not to bump the intimidating bystanders, and keep aware of who’s watching or following him/her.

Most of the youth that are there are only interested in socializing with each other–they are not going to knock people down and take their things. But how can we know who has something maelevolent in mind? These youth need better manners, and that’s giving them a wide benefit of the doubt as to whether they are corrupted by gangs or are just innocent kids with nothing better to do. Who’s going to teach them to give way to people who have somewhere to go? How effective would it be were I to ask this of them? Very ineffective, is my guess. Authority must weigh in on this problem. The Forest Park station has experienced this month’s attack, a May shooting with 13 shots fired at one victim (who knew his assailants, granted), another assault in June on a gentleman walking from the stop to Pershing. It’s time that this corner is patrolled constantly, that the ash tray is removed, and that no one be allowed to hang out at the top of the stairs.

Oh and by the way those smelly foul-mouthed drunks were all white folks go figure.

“Yes, for the last week there has been a City Police officer sitting in the parking lot in an SUV with an eye on things.”

Hahahahhahahaha. Sitting in a SUV? How about getting their fat rear out and showing a public presense? I’m sure half the time they’re talking to their mistress/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend/etc than watching the station. How about getting out and thumping some heads like in the old days?

Getta, just had to get that jab in, didn’t ya? The old “white people are bad too” routine.

Well, it’s one thing to endure foul-mouthed drunks, and quite another to endure an assault.

Hey Ben,
If the shoe fits wear it.

Boy has this turned into a hot topic!! I love guns but would not carry one on Metro link. I have found that most of the people that you need to be afraid of or not afraid of you with or without a gun. I think it is somewhat of an honor to them to take someone out that is pointing a gun at you even if they get shot in the process. Chances are that most of the 20 or so also had weapons and your six-shooter wouldn’t have a chance against them. The bottom line is that the train goes through some of St. Louis’s worst. It’s not going to change. If you are going to use the system, do the best you can to stay away from potential problems.

Hey Getta,
That went right over your head. The point being, foul-mouths are not a threat to your personal welfare.

Its funny post after post its ok to sterio-type black youth as thugs and criminal …….but call a white person a smelly drunk and the gloves are off!

The Metrolink is in the “ghetto” because that is the cheapest property. At those areas, security should be hightened. If security is heightened, more people will use the Metrolink. The more people that use it, the safer it will be. (strength in numbers)

The Metrolink needs to expand. There need to be tax increases to build new lines and sustain the current lines. Mass transit in Chicago and NY is not profitable in itself. Tax payers help pay for maintenance and expansion, this leads to a better, more approachable city. It’s an investment the city needs to do or not do. I know, taxes suck, but that’s just how these things work.
Also, go to Chicago, there are a lot of stations/ neighborhoods you stay away from. This light rail thing is new to St. Louis. Get more people riding, it gets safer.
Increase security, and in the next 15-20 years, add a line in the south city, an downtown line, and maybe another county line, and this will do so much for the city of St. Louis.

Oh happy day…

Getta, that’s hardly “gloves off.” And the issue you raise has nothing to do, in fact, with the topic at hand. The article isn’t about “foul-mouthed drunks.”

I’m sorry if you find the reality of the crime situation in St. Louis distasteful.

Shoot the punks, John

Ben,
Are you kidding how do I know weather or not this yahoo next to me isn’t CAC add that to the mix now I have a smelly drunk good-ole boy with an itchy trigger finger!

RACE:
It’s not as much a black and white thing as it is a rich and poor thing.

Eric hiding the race is the problem the blacks in St.Louis need to step up now and take the city back the police cant do it

Back on topic, people. This is not going to deteriorate into a racist discussion.

Getta, you are correct. After Rams/Cardinal/Blues games, metrolink is full of foul-mouthed, smelly, drunk white folks. I have no problem admitting it and would be the first to let them know if they were using foul language around my kids (I’ve told them that at the games themselves).

However, I don’t feel unsafe around these folks because they are not there to do harm in most cases. I only feel nervous that one of them might throw up on me.

A group of black, male, youths have a greater history of causing violence here in St. Louis and other big cities and credance must be given to this. In Appalachia, it’s probably truer that gangs of white kids are the problem and hopefully sometype of profiling is done on that group.

As a white male, I have no problem with calling out my race/gender on our ignorance. It sure seems that white males are the major demographic on being sexual predators, for instance. I have no problem with the black community making that comment. Yet, if the white community throws out comments about black male youths, more than just the gloves come off and we’re labeled racists.

So… the anti-gun stance is that an honest citizen with a concealed carry permit and a legal firearm is a greater public safety threat than 20 hoodlums engaged in a physical assault and battery on innocent families? One of them actually suggests an armed citizen would provoke the poor gang of thugs to react violently (as they beat on your loved ones). What logic! The same folks, no doubt, who try to portray the NRA as too extreme in its defense of our second amendment rights. The sad part is, they are oblivious to the absurdity of their bias against honest citizen gun owners.

I will say that I have found that it doesn’t matter what race youths are, they are all bad news.
Metro link is scary when there are large events because it does get too crowded and I won’t attend Mardi Gras on grand parade day anymore because I nearly got my arm ripped off when I was getting shoved bacwards off of the train away from my husband when leaving. Also, it was scary boarding a Hanley when youths (white in this case) were jumping on the side of the train as the doors closed to pull away.

I will not shop at malls anymore because I find them all scary. Male and Female, black or white, they are only in the mall to creat trouble.

I stopped going to the Galleria over 15 years ago, when I saw a gang with painted face that looked like something out of Batman Forever hanging around. I couldn’t tell if they were black or white, didn’t matter they were bad news and I didn’t want to be around them. Northwest Plaza went bad the day they covered it up… I saw that thing get built and now that it is in decline the Mills is now scary too. (I only felt safe there for about a year.)
Unfortunately, I can’t afford to drive to St. Peters and well… Chesterfield Mall is just not much better. Of course, they both have too many young people in them too.. so its just a matter of time.

Which would you rather deal with? A mob of foul-mouthed smelly white drunks, or a mob of hostile young black men? Ha, what a stupid question!

I’m sorry billybob, I’m not sure what you mean.(honestly)

Unfortunately, the percentage of black people who are poor is a lot higher than white people (JUST A FACT). I am sure the black youths who commit these Metrolink crimes aren’t from CBC classes.

The white-flight in St. Louis city (when a lot of whites left the city)…true this was a race thing (black/white), but it was more a money thing. White people (especially in the 60’s) have a lot more money than black people (generally). Leaving the residenence in the city with a considerably lower income level than before.

St. Louis city (especially 15 years ago), was scary, because it was poor and broken down. Investing into a city or an area is the only way to truly change it. You can see it in Maplewood (compared to 10-20 years ago). People are investing in Maplewood, it’s pretty close geographically to Clayton, Brentwood, the have the Metrolink, etc.
There are a lot of outside factors that are going into turning Maplewood around. It’s not like every resident in Maplewood decided to start taking care of their lawns.
This Maplewood example is like St. Louis city. But I digress…

I ride the train nearly every weekday and at all hours. I’ve never had a problem or even seen one. But I take the Shrewsbury line as I come from Brentwood. It seems that a lot of the troubles are on the Lambert trains. There is always a guard at Brentwood on one side or the other and I see guards at all the stations I pass through. No one has mentioned the attack on a SLU employeed at the (top level of the) Grand station a few weeks back, where he was robbed of his backpack at 5:45 pm on a Friday. Now SLU has their DPS officers on the platform during rush hours, but an attack at that time is amazing and disturbing. I appreciate the increased security presence.
I used to be asked daily when I reached the Brentwood platform for my ticket. It was annoying but that has stopped since Securitas took over. I think it’s a good way to cut some trouble off at the pass. Why don’t they check tickets anymore? They sure do hard-core after the baseball games. That should change.
I think this issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Yes, these youths in the related attacks were near stations when everything happened. But they weren’t necessarily on the trains. Police presence has to step up and STL cops need to care more. But police can’t be everywhere. If I saw a group of 20 kids walking down the street at midnight, I’d call the police. Tell me no one saw this mob as they moved from Delmar to Forest Park and therefore couldn’t call the police.
Bottom line: Continue stepping up patrols at platforms and related parking lots and bus stops. Perhaps some get the mindset that, since there is no fare turnstile, they’re free to loiter and therefore cause trouble as a result.

Decrease the access to the platforms. Other city mass transit (i.e. Chicago) will not allow you onto the platform without a valid ticket. Our system is wide open so anyone can hang around on or gain access to the platforms. Restrictive barriers such as turnstiles requiring ticket swipe would minimize the platforms being used as hangouts.

Race is irrelevant to the topic at hand – which is “What would you do about public transportation security?” Race may have some relevance if the topic was “Who do you think is more likely to commit crime on Public Transportation?” - but that ISN’T THE TOPIC. Whether you are attacked by a black person or a white person should make No difference in your response.

So, to be on topic: I think an increase in Police presence is a good start. Several people have mentioned that people board with no ticket – let’s make sure the Police check for tickets. If a person is found to not have one, don’t kick them off to try again on a different train – arrest them and prosecute them. If a person is belligerent and abusive to other passengers, kick them off. If someone threatens violence, arrest them. It won’t take long and the trains will become known as a place where you can’t get away with anything – and then the crime will decrease.

As for the CCW discussion, I think it’s only a matter of time until someone files suit against the city for preventing them from carrying on public transportation. I think the city will loose the case, and all appeals. I see the end result being people are allowed to carry on public transportation, the city looses millions of tax dollars due to legal fees, and crime goes down on the train/bus. I understand passionate arguments against guns, but the statistics aren’t emotional – when people are allowed to carry, crime goes down. Dispute it? Consider this, where are you safer: the Metro link train where guns are banned, or a Firing range where everyone is armed?

I am a white woman who was assaulted by another white woman while riding the MetroLink a few years ago. The inebriate woman was riding with her husband and two teenage sons. No passengers (mostly white) on the train stepped up to help me while she continued to sling profanities my way after the physical attack. I still ride the MetroLink. A few weeks ago, some young black men were behaving badly on the train home from work. A few of the black passengers chastised these young men and forced them off the train. Go figger. It takes all types, folks. This stuff can happen anywhere and to anybody.

“What would you do about public transportation security?”

Waive the law making trains and buses unarmed victim zones.

I don’t ride the MetroLink mostly because I like the freedom of my car and, mostly, because it doesn’t go close to my babysitters house. However, I have to agree with someone who posted about using it to go downtown for an event. I can park in the Macy’s garage for $5 and not sit on a crowded train with all the drunk people (OK, in my pre-hubby/kid days, that might have been me, but not now) who’ve been sweating it up at the stadium or something.
As far as security goes, I agree that increased police presence (not “security guards”) could have an effect. Why is there never a cop around when you need one? It seems like when I’m late for work and speeding they’re right there with the radar gun… Oh well, that’s another topic too for another day (along with that whole race issue).

Welcome to St. Louis the MOST Dangerous city in the USA, no matter what the Mayor might say.

I ride the MetroLink Monday-Friday, every day from Hanley to Central West End. I have never had a serious problem, except someone in front of me when I was walking out of the MetroLink had their wallet stolen. However, I HATE riding the MetroLink because so many people are inconsiderate, and to be honest, most of them are black. They play their radios and ipods so loud. The other day I was on the Link and a young, black kid was listening to his ipod super loud and when someone asked him to turn it down, he laughed and made an inappropriate comment. I feel semi-safe on the MetroLink during the day but at night…that is an entirely different story. I rode the Metro Link at night from the Galleria to Hanley (switching trains) by myself and that is a mistake I will never make again. I felt sooo unsafe…there was very little security, and people who on the train who wanted to make trouble.

Slugger, don’t we ALREADY have untrained fools on trains with weapons - the thugs? That is why I said law-abiding citizens with proper schooling in firearms. I wouldn’t want any old schmo with a gun on Metro either.

Maybe Pia can come back from the desert with her M-16 and patrol it for us, since she is all about volunteering to keep the world safe…

i think docking stations could be used as police substations with one or two alternating officers that could be onboard and on the platform simultaneously. honestly, i never understood why they didn’t do this to begin with. i guess our tax dollars don’t cover crime prevention.

Having police arrest fare jumpers is a terrible idea. Why tie up the limited police resources we already have for something as insignificant as jumping a $2 fare?

We need a real police prescence. Not these rent-a-cops that look bored senseless. These police need to be on the trains as well, I’d say one for every train. Sitting on the platforms isn’t gonna help the woman getting mugged on the train.

They get too crowded you can’t move how can an officer help if he can’t get to you they need to limit the amount of people per car its dangerous, you could be stabed and never no who stabed you its just crazy!

The police would be there as a deterrant, not just in the capacity as a first responder. If police were much more visible, even in rush hour, I’d wager it would help.

These violent groups have brought attention to themselves and the police are doing the right thing by stepping up their efforts. Metro isn’t the only activity where a person is at risk of a crime. In place of Metro, you could substitute, driving or walking or traveling abroad. I remember there were similar problems at the Galleria a while back. Increased security appears to have improved that situation. I do my best be cautious and watchful in whatever I do, but if I were to avoid some activities because of incidents like this, the perps would win. I’ll go about my business and hope for the best.

Well, I would fire every last one of the Metrolink security baffoons and hire real police. The Metrolink “Security” first priority is to do nothing more than write tickets to people who don’t have a ticket. Regardless of whether their stupid 4th grade educated selves see that rider EVERY SINGLE DAY and they show their monthly pass EVERY SINGLE DAY. They’re useless in preventing crime.

On one ride, on the way home from a ball game, some WASTED drugged out chick was sitting behind me and started sticking her hands in my jacket pocket. When I caught her, she was mumbling “dude, you got a cigarette”. I moved seats, she passed out. When we got to the end of the line, I found the fat old “security guard” and told him about her. She was still sitting on the train, half passed out, unaware that it wasn’t going anywhere. The fat lazy ticket writer pulls out his cell phone and says to me “Do you need to call the police?”??!!?!?!? NO YOU LAZY WASTE OF SKIN! YOU NEED TO DO YOUR JOB!

if you think the post dispatch is going to put stories like this on the front page .. you are sadly mistaken… they only know how to print fluff… is it the worst run newspaper in the country.. the editors should be ashamed of themselves for the type of paper they have been producing.. they should all be fired, and replaced ….especially Pam Maples for allowing the crude they have passed off as news to be printed…

on the story… these thugs should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law… they are nothing more then terrorists preying on innocent people… and charge their parents as well for not instilling common decency into them

You do make a good point Tim if they are WELL trained. That includes mindset and street savvy. Few have all that. My stepdad was in federal law enforcement for a while right after prohibition ended and he helped police ESTL back when all the bootlegging gangs were white. He taught me a lot. Now these folks with their guns would have to understand you can’t flash a gun at a big group without expecting them to rush and shoot or overpower you. You’ll only get a shot or two off, and they know how to duck and come at you quicker than you can imagine, even if shot. I was taught never to show a weapon unless you intend to use it. The “good guy” gun toters better be prepared for a lot.

My dad got a gun that the old Buster Wortman gang got confiscated (they gave officers those guns then instead of melting them down…a good trophy that miffed the locked up gangsters to no end)and they had bent the site so someone picking it up if they got it taken wouldn’t be able to shoot straight. That’s how far they prepare ahead.

They’ll also need to be trained in the proper grain and load of ammunition since most feel bigger is better. You do not want bullets going through people, innocents and walls. Just some of the things to think about before we go all John Wayne on professional criminals. I think my snip snip idea should be the first to be added to the crime fighting mix.

Well, a few sayings come to mind……….
“When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.”
“Why carry a gun? Because a whole cop would be too heavy.”
BiState, or Metro….whatever, has always been the same. Get out of the way of the buses on the road. Their “security” folks leaves me feeling very insecure.
And on the train……..I am not allowed to use my CCW permit, but I hear the music and see the eating of food, plus the foul talk.
Short of having a police officer on EACH train, how can anyone feel relatively safe?
BiState won’t get my vote to expand until they take down their sign with the slash through the pistol.
All the anti-gunners……you won’t see my gun, you won’t even notice me as I mind my own business, as long as the punks leave me and my family alone.
Don’t condemn me because I make an attempt to protect myself.

I propose a private business venture for a bus line. Lets call it “St. Louis Lost Civilization Tours and Transport” (SLLCT&T) The business plan would be for two areas of service. First it could offer armed convoy mass public transit to and from events in the “green zones” (the downtown/stadium/dome/fox/powell areas) which are usually patroled by real police. The second area of service would be to offer armed convoy “Lost Civilization Tours” of St. Louis, highlighting it’s significant architecture, it’s history and it’s downfall during the last 44 years.

I’ve been taking a bus and then the metrolink to work for about a year. In the morning and back home at rushhour.

I see all types of people use the train - Asians, Latinos, Blacks, Whites, the elderly, children - and all types of proffesions. Tie-wearers, chefs, resteraunt waorkers, maintenance workers, hospital workers, university employees, students, etc. Some talk loudly on their cellphones, a few listen to their music too loud, and some carry on animated conversations. But most read or enjoy the ride.

I’ve never once seen a fight, a robbery, an assault, or any major disturbance of any kind. I expect to someday.

I’ve seen the security guards ask smokers to extinguish their smokes on the platforms, and escort a few off the train for failing to have a ticket. Every morning they ask to see my pass, and every evening as well.

I did see a woman leave her bag on the platform once, after she boarded the train - a few men quickly shouted, and one ran toward the train with it to give it to her. Right as she realized what was going on, the doors shut. Someone sitting near the driver alerted her, and she radioded the security guard. He would hold her bag until she got off came back on the opposite train.

All three of the men who shouted, and the one who dashed to get her bag to her where young, black males.

Been a city resident for years now. Just started using mass transit, and I love it - clean, mostly on time, and always interesting.

What i spend on fuel is about the same, maybe a little less, as I did when I drove to work everyday.

ive taken the train a couple times for bb games and while it is pretty cool to park and ride,the lack of effective security does indeed trouble me.
i have been at the forest park station waiting for the next train to shrewsbury and had rocks come hurtling at us from groups of who knows what above us. and security was oblivious to it even though they were right there amongst us. once someone called it to thier attention,they got on the radio and shortly there after it stopped. but how was it allowed to start in the first place? things like this have made me give up on a lot of city venues a long time ago,probably 20 years or so. the lack of protection when visiting what some would call the entertainment district,ala lacledes landing(where mostly,the crimes of assualt ,RAPE, carjacking,theft go unreported for 20 years or so). the loop i only go to during the day. i dont want to become a victum so i dont patronize the areas where i feel its likely that i could become one. and i cant heep it all on mokwas force either,its been going on for at least 3 or more police chiefs time in tender. like it or not,we as a society need to clamp down on the predators and lock em up.and quit locking up nonviolent offenders.

I live near the Forest Park station. My wife and college-age kids take the MetroLink from the airport late at night all the time. It could have been us.

Is it legal to carry a gun on the MetroLink?

The crime is no surprise. The city has done nothing to address its growing problem with crime, including record murders, drugs, and now people being attacked on its transit system. These kids clearly have nothing to do, so my recommendation is to:

1) Make school compulsory and year-round for the City of St. Louis. Skipping and tardiness should have very uncomfortable consequences.
2) Set a 9 PM curfew for those under 21. I’m not sure the age of those responsible for the attacks, but they didn’t look much older than high school age.
3) Once year round schooling has been established in the city, participation in one extra-curricular activity, such as a sport, club, or even community service, should be made mandatory. Many private schools do this and it works wonders.

Getting extra security on the Metro system only covers up the problem, rather than going to the heart of it, and that is these kids have NOTHING to do but cause trouble. Make them go to school, and make them contribute more positively to the community.

Look, I don’t think being allowed to have a gun on a train is going to help anyone. Honestly you talk big now but when you are swarmed by 20 or more kids are you really going to have enough bullets? What about escalation? You carry a pistol, they each carry pistols. you wear a bullet proof vest they use armor piercing rounds.
1.) we need to revamp metrolink stations, with gates to the platforms if we can ensure that riders actually pay fares, that in itself will deter punks from riding. It’s not hard to plan out just look at successful public transit systems around the country.
2.) stronger police presence in and around stations
3.) harsher laws for people caught causing trouble especially when it comes to assault.Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society’s understanding.
4.) We must have the courage to elect officials that are serious about cleaning this city up. It’s bad enough that we are so well known as a harbor of gangs that a British show highlights gangs in various parts of the world had a whole episode on St. Louis. see: ross kemp on gangs.

GreyGhost, I don’t want anyone, even these bad kids, to get shot. Mayor Slay, Alderman Lyda Krewson and Joe Edwards should just make sure one or two police officers are stationed at both the Forest Park and Delmar MetroLink stations after dark. Problem solved! If police had been present, these attacks would never have happened.

We need a couple of “Bernies” to cap a dozen or so punks to solve the problem !!!

Remember this …

“Bernard Goetz, was dubbed the “Subway Vigilante” by the New York press. He became a symbol of New Yorkers’ frustrations with a high crime rate when he shot four men intent on robbing him on the Seventh Avenue 2 express subway train in Manhattan in 1984.”

In 4 years of riding the Metro to andfrom work I have only witnessed one incident of violence. It occurred on the AM commute and involved a male youth beating another, female, youth. On a train loaded with people I was the only person who intervened, so I have SOME first-hand experience.

The main problem is that the Police will only be present for a while, then will taper off to nothing and this will happen again. Another issue is that Metro needs to provide trained ARMED security personnell at EVERY station during operating hours. There are already inneffective security people there, so the additional cost should be nominal.

This is disgusting, and NEEDS to be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. Personally, I’m going to carry bear mace with me and refuse to go down without a fight. I ride the Metrolink because I can’t afford to drive to work, so I’ll protect what little I do have.

My sister said that one of her co-workers got jumped by some thugz at the Metro-Link at 8th and pine last week.She got beat up pretty bad.It would be nice if the cops could empty their guns out on these worthless thugz,and let their bodies rot,so they can put all the other thugs on notice that their kind of behavior won’t be tolarated.

Bill Hannegan,

“Is it legal to carry a gun on the MetroLink?”

The Metrolink is not listed as one of the 17 places were carrying is against the statute. However, they do have a sign which says “NO CCW”. Pull that sign off the wall and you can use it like a shield against flying lead. That’s the only thing it’s really good for.

CCW statutes are below. See section 571-107.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c571.htm

However, there is a provision about carrying on a bus. Now, I don’t know if the Metrolink qualifies as a bus or not.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5780000305.htm

I’m not making any recommendations, just pointing things out.

I feel a heckuva lot safer when I’m on the subway in Sydney than on the subway system in my own hometown. Pretty sad.

Since this seems to be younger people causing trouble by and large, what about a curfew? Or does STL city already have one? Crack down on the kids out late at night and that might fix part of the problem.

It is interesting to note that a few people have mentioned Bernard Goetz, the New York subway vigilante. That was in 1984. Do you really believe that the New York rapid transit system has been crime free since then?

As an afterthought, there is some question as to whether the young people who approached Goetz intended any harm, or whether he was just jumpy. Goetz knows, and he has to live with the results.

I posted this directly to the story where Slay calls for more security, but I’ll post it here too:

I’m yet another daily rider on both Metrolink AND several buses. I use the entire system to commute to work, go grocery shopping, run random errands, etc. I’m a thin, young, professional woman, reasonably attractive and not strong in the least. It definitely would not be difficult to take advantage of me. I have to say that I’ve never been assaulted or have even seen anything untowards happen. The worst thing I’ve ever had is random guys hitting on me (no, not in the physical sense), but as many women out there will attest, that happens everywhere.

At most of the Metrolink stops I use (most between downtown and Maplewood OR Delmar Loop), there usually is at least one guard. Sometimes there are more. Lately (before these incidents were reported), I’ve seen increased security at the FP-DeBaliviere, Delmar and Grand stations. These probably would be some of the stations most people might think of needing more security. Regardless, it’s hyperbole to say that the guards aren’t there.

Next, I frequently have my monthly pass checked on the train and/or heading to the platform. This usually happens during my commuting time (7:30-9 a.m. or 4-8 p.m. for me), but it also happens at other times, particularly at night. I’ve only seen one person deliberately not purchase a fare and not have a ticket when the guards came around checking. Plus I’ve overheard people (usually teenagers) saying things like “Man, just don’t mess with a ticket today” followed up by the other person saying “I can’t! The guards will catch me!” and then they buy their fare.

This is not to say that stations don’t need more security. It would be great to have a guard on each side of the platform AND at major bus stations (I’m particularly thinking of Grand here). I’d imagine that is what Metro, the city and the county would like to have happen as well and is probably what they will work on.

Here’s what I have a problem with, though. Many of you are claiming that Metrolink doesn’t have enough security. The recent incidents that have been reported in the Post have NOT all happened on Metro property, though. Their guards are confined to Metro property. They can’t go patrolling on Pershing, a block north of the FP-Deb station. Be sensible in what you ask of Metro and the guards. Yes, more security would be nice and probably is needed, but don’t imply that Metro security is not doing their jobs when the guards can’t do what you’re foolishly demanding here. Police? Sure, they can patrol beyond the stations, but Metro guards can’t.

Next, many of you are demanding turnstiles. I disagree that turnstiles (the kind you see at amusement parks and such) are the way to go. They’re too low and are easy to jump. If anything, the best option beyond the honor system would be to have the gates/turnstyles used in Chicago and New York along with a transit card that you enter and remove from the machine. Those often are harder to get past and serve as good deterrents for those without a fare.

There are, however, other cities using the honor system, so stop with the hyperbole that we’re the only place that uses this.

I’m not saying that Metro doesn’t have problems. Sure it does. All public transit agencies do. *** There are no public transportation entities in the country that turn a profit.*** They’re not designed to. They’re designed as a public good and public convenience. Now that doesn’t mean that they can’t operate smartly, but please don’t spout off uneducated things like “Well, if Metro did X or Y, we’d have more than enough money to fund the X line.” That’s just not true.

Do you know where money for public transportation comes from, not just here, but in cities all over the nation? No, not just from your personal tax dollars. Depending on location and other factors, transit money comes from farebox revenue, local taxes, highway taxes, state funds, federal funds, and many, many grants. It’s not easy to get enough money together to start new transit in a city and grow it exponentially. Hell, it’s hard enough to sustain it. State and federal funds don’t provide a lot, and what little they do provide is being squeezed out because it’s not in the Fed budget anymore. These often are only good for a few years. In addition, the dollars that went to public transit from the highway tax is being cut. When you provide a public good, you always, always, always have to look for new funding from a variety of entities.

So you think Metro needs turnstiles. So you think Metro needs more security. So you think Metro needs public restrooms and rail and bus lines to X neighborhood. *** Fine. Help fix it. *** Ride the train or bus to more than just a ballgame. Attend the Metro planning meetings. Attend your community meetings. Write to local, state and federal leaders. *** And vote for the piddly 1/2 cent tax increase this November. *** That small increase won’t do much for expansion, except for starting the paperwork to that Westport rail line that Dooley wants so much. It will be just enough to sustain service. If you countians who want the convenience of going to a ballgame once in a blue moon pass the tax, then the city portion also will kick in again. In addition, perhaps there will be more talk of statewide funding, since Kansas City also would like to build light rail there. That’s two major cities in Missouri. Illinois passed a tax to help transit, even though only Chicago and the East St. Louis region really use it much. Why can’t Missouri?

So here’s the takeaway: You can’t make things better without money. It’s common sense. So do something about it.

Also, I just can’t bring myself to comment on all the race-bashing and weapon-advocating comments here. They sadden me too much.

Bottom Line: I will go out of my way to never use the Metro again. It’s been a common source of transportation for soldiers and airmen traveling from Scott AFB out to the St Louis airport. The word is already spreading that it’s considered an unsafe mode of transportation and any corrective action they take at this point is too late; sort of like installing smoke detectors after the house burns. We can’t legally carry a concealed weapon on the Illinois side but I would at least feel better if they allowed lawful citizens carry on the Metro on the other side; it appears that Metro management would rather give the punks an advantage. Not smart since they are not willing to provide proper security.

Maybe St. Charles was right after all.

It looks like a concealed carry permit would have come in handy in this situations.

Daily Rider:
Bravo to you, young lady. You are a true city person. I am also city, born and bred, and where I live now, while in the county, is close to the city and a city type neighborhood. Nothing and no one is going to keep me out. I ride the buses, Metro, and walk anywhere and I’m in my ’70s and walk with a cane. If the city is to be brought back, we are the ones to do it.

As to the rest of you, it’s disgraceful that a “word getting out” is making you afraid. Get your guns and buy a suit of armor and hide in your basement until the bad guys go away.

WebsterMark: you go it right.It is race oriented and nothing more.

What these punks need is a little old fashion butt kicking from some vigolantes. They don’t fear the law because even if they get caught they don’t even get their hands slapped because they are ONLY children.

If the government would stop paying people to breed we would see a reduction in gang activity. We have a generation of kids that are left without guidance because the parents only had them to increase their paychecks. No one gave me a raise when I had kids but our goverment seems to think it is necessary. Without government money many of these kids would need to find jobs and become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Relax the conceal carry rules so you can “carry” on public transportation.

Uniformed police with dogs.

Aggressive enforcement of curfew and laws against loitering.

Prosecution of fare cheats.

MetroLink security can only do so much; posting guards on the platforms is logical and I’ve yet to hear officially whether there is always supposed ot be a guard at every stop? If not, there should be, whenever the trains are running. Metrolink only has so much funding, however. If crime on transit is a problem, the police need to increase their presence. That poor family that got beat up was coming FROM transit, they weren’t ON transit. Police presence in the area around major transit stops might have deterred or prevented the attack by noting a large gang of kids wandering around in the middle of the night. I agree the police should be patrolling MetroLink late at night and randomly riding the cars. But giving up on transit because there are a few attacks? That’s ridiculous. This city needs economic development, and it needs to attract smart people. Smart people go where there’s a “livable” city. Look at the surveys of most livable cities - they all have excellent transit. If St. Louis ever wants to join the 21st century we’re going to have to continue supporting and expanding transit. This city has a crime problem, and it isn’t being caused by transit, that’s just a convenient place to find helpless people to prey upon.